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Post by jezzascfc on Sept 23, 2018 15:55:36 GMT
Williams didn't have his head in his hands at all. And even if he did, the conclusion that therefore he was “cheering on Swansea” is absolutely idiotic To my mind it was a "phew, that was close" gesture as his team almost conceded an equaliser late on. We need to bring him in for a run of games now as Ryan is in terrible form. If we can nick Collins from under Villa's nose to partner him, even better. As for Rowett, I am not a big fan of naming players in public, but his post-match comments at least show he knows what he has to do now to save our season and his job. I am not a big fan of his, but I guess he will be given the time to turn this round. It will be interesting to see if he is capable of doing so. If we are in the lower reaches of the table by December (18th or below), surely the Coates must act before the next transfer window to bring in a new manager?
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 23, 2018 16:43:14 GMT
But we're scoring goals so chucking more creative players in won't solve a problem that we have. We’re not scoring goals in his favoured system, by and large. Teams are going to come to Stoke to sit deep and make it hard to break them down. Playing three workhorse CMs and a striker on the wing isn’t going to get us very far in that regard is it? 5 in the last 3 games is decent enough goal return, I agree Diouf on the wing is crap but there is no one else, Bojan isn't left footed, a winger or quick enough to play there so we're suck with him unfortunately, but when they sit deep they need to be swapped over, cutting in isn't going to work and will just make it even more compact, from what I've seen Woods seems more than a work horse midfielder, I think given the right movement he'd do well creating for whoever the striker is. I'm not a fan of 4-3-3 but thats not been our problem for the most part, shite players living on past glories is.
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Post by iglugluk on Sept 23, 2018 16:47:11 GMT
It seems to me that the problems at the club lie at a deeper level than the manager. Out of interest, does anyone know if Rowett has a history of criticising the players in public at his other clubs? Yes, deep problems at the club, apart from of course having a billionaire stoke supporting family giving the manager the best backing in the league. Lets not be daft and take the blame away from the manager for his own incompetence. The problems at the club are not that bad That remains to be seen.......I hope you're right
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 16:50:38 GMT
Rowett in......the dole queue 😁
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 16:52:28 GMT
I'd take Lambert over this clown Rowett and I thought Lambert was a failure
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Post by PotterLog on Sept 23, 2018 17:48:14 GMT
And even if he did, the conclusion that therefore he was “cheering on Swansea” is absolutely idiotic To my mind it was a "phew, that was close" gesture as his team almost conceded an equaliser late on. We need to bring him in for a run of games now as Ryan is in terrible form. If we can nick Collins from under Villa's nose to partner him, even better. As for Rowett, I am not a big fan of naming players in public, but his post-match comments at least show he knows what he has to do now to save our season and his job. I am not a big fan of his, but I guess he will be given the time to turn this round. It will be interesting to see if he is capable of doing so. If we are in the lower reaches of the table by December (18th or below), surely the Coates must act before the next transfer window to bring in a new manager? With naming players I just think it depends entirely on how you manage your relationship with them. If you’re going to do it then it needs to be controlled and you’d better be a bloody good enough man manager behind the scenes for it to pay off in some way, a la Mourinho/Luke Shaw... can we be sure Rowett has that kind of relationship with the likes of Ryan Shawcross? I’m not convinced. He’s finally identified the defence as a weak point of crisis dimensions, but by not doing so earlier he’s given himself a hell of a hole to dig himself out of. I do think he feels personally wounded by being in charge of such a leaky team but at the moment it’s hard to see that he’s digging in any direction other than down.
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Post by chell_rosey on Sept 23, 2018 18:28:06 GMT
Maybe those clubs have players who believe in what the manager is trying to achieve. I think that’s what we’re missing... Are you suggesting the defenders don't believe in it but the rest do, given we cans score goals, if you're right, thats what it would point to. I'm suggesting exactly that. The defence remains unaltered from last season's abject defensive displays. A glaring mistake that is likely to mean we look over our shoulders for this season, rather than upwards. Our defenders remain as disillusioned and sapped of confidence as they've ever been.
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samuel32
Youth Player
Jack Clarke's Shorts
Posts: 367
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Post by samuel32 on Sept 23, 2018 18:45:28 GMT
If ever you need an example of our crap recruitment it’s our signing of Sam Clucas. At the same time as we signed him Villa signed John McGinn for roughly the same price. Fast forward a month and Sam Clucas is still injured and will be for another month whilst John McGinn is doing this...
Just what the fuck were we thinking ? It’s actually comical
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 24, 2018 10:16:52 GMT
If ever you need an example of our crap recruitment it’s our signing of Sam Clucas. At the same time as we signed him Villa signed John McGinn for roughly the same price. Fast forward a month and Sam Clucas is still injured and will be for another month whilst John McGinn is doing this... Just what the fuck were we thinking ? It’s actually comical Was that the winning goal then........
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Post by rawli on Sept 24, 2018 10:21:45 GMT
Even paul lambert did better, in the premier league, with a worse set of players Winning one game against Huddersfield who were utter shit and a dead rubber against Swansea with a team containing Shaqiri says not.
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Post by rawli on Sept 24, 2018 10:27:08 GMT
Right, let's put this one to bed. Rowett interview 6:45 NJ "So Nottingham Forest, there will be changes, perhaps more changes in defence than anywhere else?" 6:50 - 7:23 GR agrees there will be changes, particularly in defence. 7:23 GR states 'some players' like to stick stuff on social media to show how hard they are working. 7:48 NJ "They will not be considered on Wednesday night?" 7:59 GR Mentions Bauer for the first time in connection with Blackburn know he's not playing because of his social media 8:40-8:52 GR discusses Bauer's 20 minute training and says he'll (Rowett) do 20 minutes training walking the dog. 8:52 NJ "So it's Moriz Bauer that's one of your main problems?" 8:53 - end GR say's he's not but needs to have another chat The first person in that interview to mention Bauer was Rowett. It's obviously been festering with him and chose the question about the changes for midweek to get it off his chest. Up to a point you could understand him raising the issue of inappropriate social media behaviour generally. But to suggest HIS professional player's training regime is equivalent to walking a dog is unacceptable. SACK HIM. If you'd told someone you manage not to piss about on social media and 24 hours later he did just that would you call him on it? I think we've got a load of premier league egos who don't like the idea of being managed by a lower league manager and who've had their egos bruised further by no one coming in for them this summer.
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Post by rawli on Sept 24, 2018 10:28:53 GMT
Perhaps we need a Vince Overson moment. Trouble us I don't think we have anyone capable to cracking a few heads like Big Vince did. How do you think a bunch of millionaires would react to that.
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Post by rawli on Sept 24, 2018 10:31:29 GMT
We’re not scoring goals in his favoured system, by and large. Teams are going to come to Stoke to sit deep and make it hard to break them down. Playing three workhorse CMs and a striker on the wing isn’t going to get us very far in that regard is it? 5 in the last 3 games is decent enough goal return, I agree Diouf on the wing is crap but there is no one else, Bojan isn't left footed, a winger or quick enough to play there so we're suck with him unfortunately, but when they sit deep they need to be swapped over, cutting in isn't going to work and will just make it even more compact, from what I've seen Woods seems more than a work horse midfielder, I think given the right movement he'd do well creating for whoever the striker is. I'm not a fan of 4-3-3 but thats not been our problem for the most part, shite players living on past glories is. Why not a left footer on the left wing? What's so great about inverted wingers ?
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Post by RAF on Sept 24, 2018 10:43:21 GMT
Overachieved my fucking rusty bullet hole!
H
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Post by daveandeddy on Sept 24, 2018 10:52:33 GMT
There were posters on here calling for Rowett's head after 3 games ... even before a ball had been kicked by some on here for his signing of McLean
Me personally --- We should just let him get on with a team in transition / freefall -- AND PRAY LIKE FUCK
I have been(like others) amazed at some of the starting line ups and even more at the substitutions if nothing more than because he is picking players out of form ( hoping they will come into it )
Time for changes ? --- Perhaps overdue is a polite way of putting it
Jack Butland --- Not half as good as we ( or he ) thought he was - not looking like a £40 million keeper and hasn't for 2 seasons now - Time to give Federici a go ? With a back 4 devoid od pace and a keeper who doesn't want to close down attackers there cannot be a bigger hole for the opposition to exploit / take the piss out of us RB -- Who the fuck is our right back anyway ? Is Cuco Martinez a better option ? - Bauer is out of the picture and Edwards also on the basis of his penalty fuck up against Preston -- Needs addressing LB -- Peters -- gives too many freekicks away and allows people to get inside -- However I think he is getting exposed by the sheer wankery of Shawcross and Indi at the moment so perhaps our best options for now
SHAWCROSS AND INDI AND WILLIAMS -- The musical statues ... what can you say about pace ( none ) positioning ( awful ) and leadership ( non existent --- Can you simply put these down to Rowett though ? --Changes have to be made and risks taken with 2 out of 3 of these jettisoned and Souttar given his chance alongside maybe Sorenson ?-- Now I know Sorenson is a midfielder BUT he will not be getting in with Woods - Etebo and Allen / Clucas so why not see if he can do a Cameron type role ? Captaincy --- Never again for me for Shawcross - throw it to one of the midfield terriers -- probably Wood
Allen - Etebo - Wood --- Etebo and Wood are absolutely there on merit and Allen on what he can do when he is on it --- No changes BUT give them the confidence that they have a defence at least behind them and the wind them up an let them go
Berahino --- Huge gamble to build your front on his shoulder BUT is a must - Crouch cannot be the answer from the get-go Afobe --- Too little movement in him but when he is on the ball he doesn't look too bad Crouch --- proved again on Saturday why he has to be a Plan B and not a Plan A Bojan -- a luxury which cannot be afforded but a very good Plan B for as long as we have him
Ince -- A shoe in for now but does need to find his shooting boots Mclean - When back another automatic pick on how he has played so far this season
Coming in Clucas --- Can he do a job LB or will he be a replacement for Allen if he does not start to pick up
Surely the clear issue is the players he has inherited / shown faith in which cannot and will not be continued -- He has more time as far as I am concerned
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Post by Clayton Wood on Sept 24, 2018 11:26:24 GMT
Right, let's put this one to bed. Rowett interview 6:45 NJ "So Nottingham Forest, there will be changes, perhaps more changes in defence than anywhere else?" 6:50 - 7:23 GR agrees there will be changes, particularly in defence. 7:23 GR states 'some players' like to stick stuff on social media to show how hard they are working. 7:48 NJ "They will not be considered on Wednesday night?" 7:59 GR Mentions Bauer for the first time in connection with Blackburn know he's not playing because of his social media 8:40-8:52 GR discusses Bauer's 20 minute training and says he'll (Rowett) do 20 minutes training walking the dog. 8:52 NJ "So it's Moriz Bauer that's one of your main problems?" 8:53 - end GR say's he's not but needs to have another chat The first person in that interview to mention Bauer was Rowett. It's obviously been festering with him and chose the question about the changes for midweek to get it off his chest. Up to a point you could understand him raising the issue of inappropriate social media behaviour generally. But to suggest HIS professional player's training regime is equivalent to walking a dog is unacceptable. SACK HIM. If you'd told someone you manage not to piss about on social media and 24 hours later he did just that would you call him on it? I think we've got a load of premier league egos who don't like the idea of being managed by a lower league manager and who've had their egos bruised further by no one coming in for them this summer. Personally, yes, but not publicly. I once managed an employee who had terrible body odour, so bad colleagues complained to me about it. I took him to one side and explained the problem to which he agreed to do something about it. I pointed out he was letting himself down more than anything. Nothing changed and the complaints continued. Eventually, I raised it with him in a group meeting. His peers had their say, some of it pointedly so. That did the trick. I'd never have gone outside the group and say by the way have you noticed X stinks. I agree about the egos and lower league manager. I've asked before is it possible he's never won over the dressing room rather than lost it?
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Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 24, 2018 11:33:57 GMT
Right, let's put this one to bed. Rowett interview 6:45 NJ "So Nottingham Forest, there will be changes, perhaps more changes in defence than anywhere else?" 6:50 - 7:23 GR agrees there will be changes, particularly in defence. 7:23 GR states 'some players' like to stick stuff on social media to show how hard they are working. 7:48 NJ "They will not be considered on Wednesday night?" 7:59 GR Mentions Bauer for the first time in connection with Blackburn know he's not playing because of his social media 8:40-8:52 GR discusses Bauer's 20 minute training and says he'll (Rowett) do 20 minutes training walking the dog. 8:52 NJ "So it's Moriz Bauer that's one of your main problems?" 8:53 - end GR say's he's not but needs to have another chat The first person in that interview to mention Bauer was Rowett. It's obviously been festering with him and chose the question about the changes for midweek to get it off his chest. Up to a point you could understand him raising the issue of inappropriate social media behaviour generally. But to suggest HIS professional player's training regime is equivalent to walking a dog is unacceptable. SACK HIM. If you'd told someone you manage not to piss about on social media and 24 hours later he did just that would you call him on it? I think we've got a load of premier league egos who don't like the idea of being managed by a lower league manager and who've had their egos bruised further by no one coming in for them this summer. The last sentence, if they still have those egos now following the last 2 years and nobody coming in for them they need a better mirror. If they were good enough they wouldn't be at the club today. Following the last 2 years they more than likely know they are shit and so they should, because they ( the defence) are.
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Post by rawli on Sept 24, 2018 12:02:55 GMT
If you'd told someone you manage not to piss about on social media and 24 hours later he did just that would you call him on it? I think we've got a load of premier league egos who don't like the idea of being managed by a lower league manager and who've had their egos bruised further by no one coming in for them this summer. Personally, yes, but not publicly. I once managed an employee who had terrible body odour, so bad colleagues complained to me about it. I took him to one side and explained the problem to which he agreed to do something about it. I pointed out he was letting himself down more than anything. Nothing changed and the complaints continued. Eventually, I raised it with him in a group meeting. His peers had their say, some of it pointedly so. That did the trick. I'd never have gone outside the group and say by the way have you noticed X stinks. I agree about the egos and lower league manager. I've asked before is it possible he's never won over the dressing room rather than lost it? Get what you're saying but there's a difference in that you didn't have thousands of people pillorying you for not using the employee and demanding an explanation.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Sept 24, 2018 12:38:35 GMT
Personally, yes, but not publicly. I once managed an employee who had terrible body odour, so bad colleagues complained to me about it. I took him to one side and explained the problem to which he agreed to do something about it. I pointed out he was letting himself down more than anything. Nothing changed and the complaints continued. Eventually, I raised it with him in a group meeting. His peers had their say, some of it pointedly so. That did the trick. I'd never have gone outside the group and say by the way have you noticed X stinks. I agree about the egos and lower league manager. I've asked before is it possible he's never won over the dressing room rather than lost it? Get what you're saying but there's a difference in that you didn't have thousands of people pillorying you for not using the employee and demanding an explanation. I think the solution here maybe is to send Bauer and Rowett up in Bauer's plane with just enough fuel to climb to 2,000 feet. Then let them find out there's only one parachute on board. Should help the dispute resolution and team working.
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tony10
Youth Player
Posts: 427
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Post by tony10 on Sept 24, 2018 14:49:35 GMT
He's only managed 3 clubs. Not exactly pedigree Is it?
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Post by rawli on Sept 24, 2018 15:14:15 GMT
Get what you're saying but there's a difference in that you didn't have thousands of people pillorying you for not using the employee and demanding an explanation. I think the solution here maybe is to send Bauer and Rowett up in Bauer's plane with just enough fuel to climb to 2,000 feet. Then let them find out there's only one parachute on board. Should help the dispute resolution and team working. Whoever survived would definitely have a BO problem.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 24, 2018 18:21:24 GMT
The midfield - now that Woods has arrived - is looking handy
We have a front line that looks like scoring
We have a defence that is costing us games
With the window closed we have very little room for manoeuvre
Will sacking the manager solve the underlying problem. No it won't.
All that sacking the manager would prove is that the players and some impatient fans are pulling the strings and we have a club that is completely unmanageable. If that happens no self respecting manager is going to touch us with a barge pole - we'd be screwed
Rowett is spot on in identifying the problem. He has to make some unpopular decisions - and the club have to back him.
Eggs and omelettes...it has to get messy
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Post by superheroantonius on Sept 24, 2018 18:47:37 GMT
Why is he vindictive ? Every time , someone knocks a ball down the middle of the pitch , our defence disappears This has been going on, for his entire time here . It's cowardly , nobody wants to put their body on the line , nobody wants to put their foot in , the two centre halfs never ' shut the door ' on whoever is comming through the middle . It's like a lads and dads game , where the two big fat dads , don't want to shut on the door on the youngster comming through , in case they look like big fat bullies . This is madness .It's meant to be professional football , not a family kickabout with your cousins and nephews . Unfortunately it is Rowett (and his management team) who cannot seem to get what we know these players ae capable of, delivered on match days......he's now trying to personalise and (vindictivly) singling out individuals either directly or by insinuation as a desperate measure of deflection - you'd never hear any of the "great" managers do such a thing - would all be professionally handled behind closed doors....this guy is soooooo out of his depth it's embarrassing..... With respect I disagree , I have seen Jose mourinho and sir Alex Ferguson have a fair few public fallouts with players And in the modern game , they are both considered great managers
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Post by sonichuth on Sept 24, 2018 18:53:31 GMT
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 24, 2018 18:57:13 GMT
I think he has a lot of potential about him, and he has shown that in his career to date. I got my first proper glimpse of him at work against Swansea and was very impressed by how he out-thought Potter throughout.
However, I do worry that he's been handed a far more barely situation than he's ever dealt with before and that he's not sure of how best to proceed. Has he ever had a situation before where he has inherited a toxic squad and a fanbase so sure of instant success that even his good substitutions get barracked by supporters? He does sound like he's already at his wit's end.
The board have a choice now. They can back him big style and cull the perceived problems, allowing him to mould the squad in his own image, or they can sack him and let the rot carry on. Alternatively, they could repeat past mistakes, hedge their bets and do nothing.
To be honest, I'm already looking at how we can approach a bigger rebuild next season with a different manager.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 24, 2018 19:30:29 GMT
I think he has a lot of potential about him, and he has shown that in his career to date. I got my first proper glimpse of him at work against Swansea and was very impressed by how he out-thought Potter throughout. However, I do worry that he's been handed a far more barely situation than he's ever dealt with before and that he's not sure of how best to proceed. Has he ever had a situation before where he has inherited a toxic squad and a fanbase so sure of instant success that even his good substitutions get barracked by supporters? He does sound like he's already at his wit's end. The board have a choice now. They can back him big style and cull the perceived problems, allowing him to mould the squad in his own image, or they can sack him and let the rot carry on. Alternatively, they could repeat past mistakes, hedge their bets and do nothing. To be honest, I'm already looking at how we can approach a bigger rebuild next season with a different manager. A big clear out was what was needed - and it was never going to be achieved over one summer - regardless of the manager. If Rowett's signings were the problem I'd agree - but his signings have done remarkably well. He also tried to sort out the defence but was unsuccessful - but then again that's been a problem for three seasons now so to blame him entirely is not exactly fair. Even there he's replaced Bauer (who was all over the shop) with the far more reliable Martina - and its too early to say Williams won't have a part to play, If Rowett does sort out the defence (a big if given his limited options) there's no reason we can't make the play offs - its a long season and things can change pretty quickly in this league.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Sept 24, 2018 21:16:30 GMT
Unfortunately it is Rowett (and his management team) who cannot seem to get what we know these players ae capable of, delivered on match days......he's now trying to personalise and (vindictivly) singling out individuals either directly or by insinuation as a desperate measure of deflection - you'd never hear any of the "great" managers do such a thing - would all be professionally handled behind closed doors....this guy is soooooo out of his depth it's embarrassing..... With respect I disagree , I have seen Jose mourinho and sir Alex Ferguson have a fair few public fallouts with players And in the modern game , they are both considered great managers Maybe, but there would always be a back story - in Rowetts case it's just a fig-leaf to draw the fire away from his rank ineptitude.........
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Post by geoff321 on Sept 24, 2018 21:33:57 GMT
All GR needs is a few good results and all this analysis on here about relatively minor off the field issues will be forgotten quickly.
It's virtually impossible to give an objective view of a manager after just 9 games, he needs at least until Christmas.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Sept 24, 2018 22:19:07 GMT
I think he has a lot of potential about him, and he has shown that in his career to date. I got my first proper glimpse of him at work against Swansea and was very impressed by how he out-thought Potter throughout. However, I do worry that he's been handed a far more barely situation than he's ever dealt with before and that he's not sure of how best to proceed. Has he ever had a situation before where he has inherited a toxic squad and a fanbase so sure of instant success that even his good substitutions get barracked by supporters? He does sound like he's already at his wit's end. The board have a choice now. They can back him big style and cull the perceived problems, allowing him to mould the squad in his own image, or they can sack him and let the rot carry on. Alternatively, they could repeat past mistakes, hedge their bets and do nothing. To be honest, I'm already looking at how we can approach a bigger rebuild next season with a different manager. “Outthought Potter” He limped to a one nil win at home against Swansea B I actually thought Potter organized and had his B team playing well. It also begs the questions what was Rowett thinking against recent L1 luminaries Wigan and Blackburn!
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Post by Gary Hackett on Sept 24, 2018 22:51:05 GMT
Rowett is spot on in identifying the problem. He has to make some unpopular decisions - and the club have to back him. Yes he's finally identified the problem after a whole pre season and 10 games. Problem is that it's now way too late and because of this we have no alternatives until the transfer window reopens which then will be too late for a promotion push. He's the manager, he should have seen the problems but didn't, therefore he is now the problem
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