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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 23, 2018 12:48:06 GMT
I disagree, if the players aren't doing what they are told then what is he meant to do, its easy to say drop them but given the squad there isn't anyone. His job is to get the best out of his players and he is failing miserably How do you get the best out of players that clearly aren't good enough or past their best, Lambert didn't manage it either even though he's suddenly the best thing since sliced bread. No one would do any better with the defence we have.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 23, 2018 12:55:51 GMT
His job is to get the best out of his players and he is failing miserably How do you get the best out of players that clearly aren't good enough or past their best, Lambert didn't manage it either even though he's suddenly the best thing since sliced bread. No one would do any better with the defence we have. Well Potter seems to be doing ok? Dyche got a Burnley team tipped for relegation promoted, as did Wagner at Huddersfield? Even Redknapp got that shambles of a QPR side promoted again...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 12:55:59 GMT
It seems to me that the problems at the club lie at a deeper level than the manager. Out of interest, does anyone know if Rowett has a history of criticising the players in public at his other clubs? yes he hasquite a history in fact
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 23, 2018 12:57:58 GMT
How do you get the best out of players that clearly aren't good enough or past their best, Lambert didn't manage it either even though he's suddenly the best thing since sliced bread. No one would do any better with the defence we have. Well Potter seems to be doing ok? Dyche got a Burnley team tipped for relegation promoted, as did Wagner at Huddersfield? Even Redknapp got that shambles of a QPR side promoted again... Didn't realise they were the same players, our defence clearly aren't capable, maybe those clubs have players that can follow instruction.
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Post by iglugluk on Sept 23, 2018 12:59:57 GMT
It seems to me that the problems at the club lie at a deeper level than the manager. Out of interest, does anyone know if Rowett has a history of criticising the players in public at his other clubs? yes he hasquite a history in factHmmmm not a good sign........thanks for the link.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 23, 2018 13:02:25 GMT
Well Potter seems to be doing ok? Dyche got a Burnley team tipped for relegation promoted, as did Wagner at Huddersfield? Even Redknapp got that shambles of a QPR side promoted again... Didn't realise they were the same players, our defence clearly aren't capable, maybe those clubs have players that can follow instruction. So we’re in a worse state than any of those are we? Behave. We’re veering towards ‘only Pulis could’ve got this side promoted’ territory. A decent manager should be able to get this side organised.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 23, 2018 13:18:17 GMT
Didn't realise they were the same players, our defence clearly aren't capable, maybe those clubs have players that can follow instruction. So we’re in a worse state than any of those are we? Behave. We’re veering towards ‘only Pulis could’ve got this side promoted’ territory. A decent manager should be able to get this side organised. We're looking like we've got the worst defence in the league, I'm pretty sure Rowett could do the same as the all mighty Lambert did, would you be happy with sitting back with two DM's sitting on the CB's dicks because thats what its going to take.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 23, 2018 13:20:55 GMT
So we’re in a worse state than any of those are we? Behave. We’re veering towards ‘only Pulis could’ve got this side promoted’ territory. A decent manager should be able to get this side organised. We're looking like we've got the worst defence in the league, I'm pretty sure Rowett could do the same as the all mighty Lambert did, would you be happy with sitting back with two DM's sitting on the CB's dicks because thats what its going to take. It’d be a start, wouldn’t it? Didn’t he promise ‘back to basics’? He either needs to do that or he needs to pick some creative or quick players and attack teams. What he’s created is a team set up defensively that can’t defend.
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Post by chell_rosey on Sept 23, 2018 13:28:14 GMT
Well Potter seems to be doing ok? Dyche got a Burnley team tipped for relegation promoted, as did Wagner at Huddersfield? Even Redknapp got that shambles of a QPR side promoted again... Didn't realise they were the same players, our defence clearly aren't capable, maybe those clubs have players that can follow instruction. Maybe those clubs have players who believe in what the manager is trying to achieve. I think that’s what we’re missing...
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Post by milky on Sept 23, 2018 13:34:03 GMT
Perhaps we need a Vince Overson moment.
Trouble us I don't think we have anyone capable to cracking a few heads like Big Vince did.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 23, 2018 13:41:03 GMT
Didn't realise they were the same players, our defence clearly aren't capable, maybe those clubs have players that can follow instruction. Maybe those clubs have players who believe in what the manager is trying to achieve. I think that’s what we’re missing... Are you suggesting the defenders don't believe in it but the rest do, given we cans score goals, if you're right, thats what it would point to.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 23, 2018 13:42:01 GMT
We're looking like we've got the worst defence in the league, I'm pretty sure Rowett could do the same as the all mighty Lambert did, would you be happy with sitting back with two DM's sitting on the CB's dicks because thats what its going to take. It’d be a start, wouldn’t it? Didn’t he promise ‘back to basics’? He either needs to do that or he needs to pick some creative or quick players and attack teams. What he’s created is a team set up defensively that can’t defend. But we're scoring goals so chucking more creative players in won't solve a problem that we have.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 13:44:09 GMT
We're looking like we've got the worst defence in the league, I'm pretty sure Rowett could do the same as the all mighty Lambert did, would you be happy with sitting back with two DM's sitting on the CB's dicks because thats what its going to take. It’d be a start, wouldn’t it? Didn’t he promise ‘back to basics’? He either needs to do that or he needs to pick some creative or quick players and attack teams. What he’s created is a team set up defensively that can’t defend. I don't think we're set up that defensively. I think Rowett reckons (wrongly) that Etebo and Allen are quality enough to provide attacking threat. It's a dominant, attacking 433. I don't really think we're set up or organised poorly in defence either. We're (normally) in a decent shape for most of the time, and then 1 or 2 daft individual mistakes gifts goals.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 23, 2018 13:44:47 GMT
It’d be a start, wouldn’t it? Didn’t he promise ‘back to basics’? He either needs to do that or he needs to pick some creative or quick players and attack teams. What he’s created is a team set up defensively that can’t defend. But we're scoring goals so chucking more creative players in won't solve a problem that we have. We’re not scoring goals in his favoured system, by and large. Teams are going to come to Stoke to sit deep and make it hard to break them down. Playing three workhorse CMs and a striker on the wing isn’t going to get us very far in that regard is it?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 23, 2018 13:45:44 GMT
It’d be a start, wouldn’t it? Didn’t he promise ‘back to basics’? He either needs to do that or he needs to pick some creative or quick players and attack teams. What he’s created is a team set up defensively that can’t defend. I don't think we're set up that defensively. I think Rowett reckons (wrongly) that Etebo and Allen are quality enough to provide attacking threat. It's a dominant, attacking 433. I don't really think we're set up or organised poorly in defence either. We're (normally) in a decent shape for most of the time, and then 1 or 2 daft individual mistakes gifts goals. He’s starting with one creative player.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 13:46:37 GMT
I don't think we're set up that defensively. I think Rowett reckons (wrongly) that Etebo and Allen are quality enough to provide attacking threat. It's a dominant, attacking 433. I don't really think we're set up or organised poorly in defence either. We're (normally) in a decent shape for most of the time, and then 1 or 2 daft individual mistakes gifts goals. He’s starting with one creative player. Agreed, he's starting the wrong ones. But we're not playing defensively, we're just trying to attack and create with the wrong players, so we get frustrated and can't break through.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 23, 2018 13:47:44 GMT
He’s starting with one creative player. Agreed, he's starting the wrong ones. But we're not playing defensively, we're just trying to attack and create with the wrong players, so we get frustrated and can't break through. The players picked are going to inform how we play though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 13:49:04 GMT
Agreed, he's starting the wrong ones. But we're not playing defensively, we're just trying to attack and create with the wrong players, so we get frustrated and can't break through. The players picked are going to inform how we play though. Sort of, but it's not as if all 3 of our midfield are sitting back is it? Allen and Etebo are trying to attack and create, they're just not good enough at it together. We're trying to attack but our players don't have the quality. We're not playing defensively in my opinion.
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Post by Roger Everyone on Sept 23, 2018 13:54:09 GMT
Will Sam Clucas give us a better option when he is fit ?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 23, 2018 13:57:39 GMT
The players picked are going to inform how we play though. Sort of, but it's not as if all 3 of our midfield are sitting back is it? Allen and Etebo are trying to attack and create, they're just not good enough at it together. We're trying to attack but our players don't have the quality. We're not playing defensively in my opinion. They’re not sitting back but they’re constantly deep to the point where the centre forward is isolated. There’s still no effective link there. The need for vision or creativity is considered second to having three busy lads who can put a tackle in buzzing around miles behind them instead. Add that to two functional full backs and a bloke on the left wing who can’t run with the ball at his feet and we’re going to struggle to break teams down.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 14:00:07 GMT
Sort of, but it's not as if all 3 of our midfield are sitting back is it? Allen and Etebo are trying to attack and create, they're just not good enough at it together. We're trying to attack but our players don't have the quality. We're not playing defensively in my opinion. They’re not sitting back but they’re constantly deep to the point where the centre forward is isolated. There’s still no effective link there. The need for vision or creativity is considered second to having three busy lads who can put a tackle in buzzing around miles behind them instead. Add that to two functional full backs and a bloke on the left wing who can’t run with the ball at his feet and we’re going to struggle to break teams down. I think yesterday they were deep because there was a wall of 8 players ahead of them. neither of them are comfortable playing between the lines but thats not to say we set out defensively. It's not that Rowett is trying to be defensive, he just vastly overestimates the attacking quality of the midfielders we have. If Bojan doesn't get starts soon i'll be worried. We needed another left winger too I agree.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 23, 2018 15:03:37 GMT
It seems to me that the problems at the club lie at a deeper level than the manager. Out of interest, does anyone know if Rowett has a history of criticising the players in public at his other clubs? Yes, deep problems at the club, apart from of course having a billionaire stoke supporting family giving the manager the best backing in the league. Lets not be daft and take the blame away from the manager for his own incompetence. The problems at the club are not that bad
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Post by blackpoolred on Sept 23, 2018 15:18:35 GMT
We have to keep him. He inherited a shambles of a club that had been left to rot for years. I could only see us falling through to level 3 football at the end of last season. We were utterly incapable of competing in a game of football no matter what level the opposition was(even Coventry outclassed us) - he arguably had to get rid of an entire squad and build a complete new starting 11 - he was never going to do this in 1 window His job for me was to somehow get a team together that could compete in a game of nogger and actually try and win a game of football and to keep us in this division while laying some foundations - he is doing exactly that and I am pleased with the progress. If you listen to the rumours and backhand swipes on social media then it sounds like he still has a long way to go in order to get rid of all the deadwood. Defensively we had one of the worst back fives in all 4 divisions last year, he did try to change this and we were linked to a number of players which for whatever reason our transfer team could not get over the line or if you believe some rumours was told he could not have another top left-back in the squad as the club did not want to pay for 1 expensive defender to sit on the bench for 46 games. I love our chairman but when it comes to all things footie he is fecking cluless. He looks at our defence and is seeing what wages we are paying the likes of Shawx, Pieters, Indie and Butland and thinks we should have the best defence in the division based on wages - unfortunately, it does not work like that. Rowett quite clearly has had restrictions placed on him regarding bringing in defenders and here in lyes the problem. He, by the sounds of his post-match interview is going to make a few changes to the defensive line-up - the problem being that he has no viable back-up to bring in: Williams can't play for the club again after cheering on Swansea on Tuesday night and his woeful showing against Wigan and we literally have no replacement at all for Pieters and arguably for our goalkeeper also. Rowett called out our defence in his post-match interview, the defence is where our problems has been for years and has needed changing for the last 5 or 6 windows, but nobody seems to have had the balls or foresight to change or re-build - we now finally have a manager that can see exactly where our main issues lie and is calling out some of our senior players - we, therefore, must keep Rowett and back him. Sadly I think we have a delusional set of fans and a board that seems utterly oblivious to what has been going on at the club over the last couple of years and all they will do is look at the wage bill and ask why are we not doing better. Rowett's post-match interview reeked of a man who knows he is under pressure and possibly not far from being pushed - he knows he has massive issues at this club and it is going to take time to sort out - sadly I think he knows he will not be given that time by the fans or the board. The disaster would be to get rid of Rowett and yet another manager to come into the shambles and persist with the overpaid prima-donnas on Coates/transfer teams say so. We have a rottweiler of a manager who is laying into the people he needs to, calling out the issues with the club and is slowly building a team that can compete and we have some players who actually care. Rowett, for me, is exactly the right man for the job at the right time - moving him on could be the final nail in our coffin and we could just keep plummeting into oblivion. We have been here before though and let us hope we have learned some lessons Williams wasn’t cheering on Swansea and will start the next game. What on field stuff have you seen from Rowett that’s impressed you? If you watched EFL Quest on Tuesday then you will see that he had his head in his hands when Swansea missed that chance at the end of the game. Whatever he said afterward it cannot make up for the fact it was clearly caught on Camera - so he was cheering on Swansea. I will be surprised if somebody like Rowett would have a characterless twit like him in his starting 11 ever again. I think we might see a bit of youth given a chance, but you never know. I think we have done alright in spells of games. Last week we dominated for the 1st half against Wednesday a team that will have aspirations for top half/play-offs - it has been literally years since we had a long spell in a game of football like that, so some encouraging signs. Like I said at the end of last year I could only see us dropping straight through and doing a Sunderland was a distinct possibility given the state of the club/squad - I think he is doing an essential job at the moment and it is not going to be pretty in the interim
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2018 15:27:52 GMT
He's a grade A wanker with no clue what he is doing.
• No idea what his best formation is • Plays players out of position • No idea who his best players are • Sets up wrong at home for fear of losing • Pays over the odds for bang average players • has no ability to attract decent players • Doesn't play the only fucking creative player we have
And then, after all that he calls out individual players for performing poorly whilst at the same time ostracising a player for making public comments about himself.
Bellend. Utter bellend. 1000 times worse than any other manager we have.
One positive I will give him is Berahino but he Fucked him over in his interview yesterday to.
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Post by Davef on Sept 23, 2018 15:36:31 GMT
Williams wasn’t cheering on Swansea and will start the next game. What on field stuff have you seen from Rowett that’s impressed you? If you watched EFL Quest on Tuesday then you will see that he had his head in his hands when Swansea missed that chance at the end of the game. Whatever he said afterward it cannot make up for the fact it was clearly caught on Camera - so he was cheering on Swansea. I will be surprised if somebody like Rowett would have a characterless twit like him in his starting 11 ever again. I think we might see a bit of youth given a chance, but you never know. I think we have done alright in spells of games. Last week we dominated for the 1st half against Wednesday a team that will have aspirations for top half/play-offs - it has been literally years since we had a long spell in a game of football like that, so some encouraging signs. Like I said at the end of last year I could only see us dropping straight through and doing a Sunderland was a distinct possibility given the state of the club/squad - I think he is doing an essential job at the moment and it is not going to be pretty in the interim Williams didn't have his head in his hands at all.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 23, 2018 15:40:22 GMT
Williams wasn’t cheering on Swansea and will start the next game. What on field stuff have you seen from Rowett that’s impressed you? If you watched EFL Quest on Tuesday then you will see that he had his head in his hands when Swansea missed that chance at the end of the game. Whatever he said afterward it cannot make up for the fact it was clearly caught on Camera - so he was cheering on Swansea. I will be surprised if somebody like Rowett would have a characterless twit like him in his starting 11 ever again. I think we might see a bit of youth given a chance, but you never know. I think we have done alright in spells of games. Last week we dominated for the 1st half against Wednesday a team that will have aspirations for top half/play-offs - it has been literally years since we had a long spell in a game of football like that, so some encouraging signs. Like I said at the end of last year I could only see us dropping straight through and doing a Sunderland was a distinct possibility given the state of the club/squad - I think he is doing an essential job at the moment and it is not going to be pretty in the interim I have seen it, I’m curious as to how you’ve managed to so utterly convince yourself that’s what he was doing? It looked to me like he was letting out a sigh of relief, much in the way many of us do. If we weren’t playing one of his former clubs it wouldn’t have so much as been mentioned. Outside of the one Wednesday performance (that we still contrived to throw away), have you honestly seen much to suggest he’s offering a clear way forward?
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Post by mozzer on Sept 23, 2018 15:40:55 GMT
Rowett is 100% struggling and so under pressure his ears must be bleeding by now, I said it on another thread and I will say it here we are a basket case of a club and no matter what smudge believes I truly believe we are rotten to the core, Rowett needs to be given some backing by giving him full control and we need to get rid of the two little pigs running things in the background rowett will need at least 2 more transfer windows to get us ticking how he wants and playing the system his training ground boys have been instructed, the one and only thing that we were good at and really exceled at last season was conceding goals for fun, so what do we do.....we keep the same keeper and same defence,..priceless
The only problem I have with Rowett (other than him making a complete hash of things currently)is his persuasion to play pulisesque defensive football whilst relying on the worst defence in the league, let's change the tactics to suit the personnel until we can trim the wage bill and replace some of these premier league big time Charlie's.
WATFA
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Post by PotterLog on Sept 23, 2018 15:41:44 GMT
If you watched EFL Quest on Tuesday then you will see that he had his head in his hands when Swansea missed that chance at the end of the game. Whatever he said afterward it cannot make up for the fact it was clearly caught on Camera - so he was cheering on Swansea. I will be surprised if somebody like Rowett would have a characterless twit like him in his starting 11 ever again. I think we might see a bit of youth given a chance, but you never know. I think we have done alright in spells of games. Last week we dominated for the 1st half against Wednesday a team that will have aspirations for top half/play-offs - it has been literally years since we had a long spell in a game of football like that, so some encouraging signs. Like I said at the end of last year I could only see us dropping straight through and doing a Sunderland was a distinct possibility given the state of the club/squad - I think he is doing an essential job at the moment and it is not going to be pretty in the interim Williams didn't have his head in his hands at all. And even if he did, the conclusion that therefore he was “cheering on Swansea” is absolutely idiotic
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 23, 2018 15:44:57 GMT
Rowett is 100% struggling and so under pressure his ears must be bleeding by now, I said it on another thread and I will say it here we are a basket case of a club and no matter what smudge believes I truly believe we are rotten to the core, Rowett needs to be given some backing by giving him full control and we need to get rid of the two little pigs running things in the background rowett will need at least 2 more transfer windows to get us ticking how he wants and playing the system his training ground boys have been instructed, the one and only thing that we were good at and really exceled at last season was conceding goals for fun, so what do we do.....we keep the same keeper and same defence,..priceless The only problem I have with Rowett (other than him making a complete hash of things currently)is his persuasion to play pulisesque defensive football whilst relying on the worst defence in the league, let's change the tactics to suit the personnel until we can trim the wage bill and replace some of these premier league big time Charlie's. WATFA He isn’t going to do that though. And what difference do people think the ‘complete control’ thing is going to make? Which halcyon days are we harking back to?
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Post by stokeykez on Sept 23, 2018 15:53:24 GMT
Rowett is 100% struggling and so under pressure his ears must be bleeding by now, I said it on another thread and I will say it here we are a basket case of a club and no matter what smudge believes I truly believe we are rotten to the core, Rowett needs to be given some backing by giving him full control and we need to get rid of the two little pigs running things in the background rowett will need at least 2 more transfer windows to get us ticking how he wants and playing the system his training ground boys have been instructed, the one and only thing that we were good at and really exceled at last season was conceding goals for fun, so what do we do.....we keep the same keeper and same defence,..priceless The only problem I have with Rowett (other than him making a complete hash of things currently)is his persuasion to play pulisesque defensive football whilst relying on the worst defence in the league, let's change the tactics to suit the personnel until we can trim the wage bill and replace some of these premier league big time Charlie's. WATFA He isn’t going to do that though. And what difference do people think the ‘complete control’ thing is going to make? Which halcyon days are we harking back to? The problem with rowett is that it's long termntherapy stoke need but the way he is handling the task he runs the risk of a short term tenure. Every stoke fan in the land knows its a long term project and so the mentality must be of the highest professionalism and patience to tackle this. The players that are aging will not be there forever however they deserve some respect ( although it pains me to say) whilst being let down gently to the fact they are aging, too slow , one dimensional and the rest. Meanwhile wrecking ball rowett has more chance of pissing off 25000 stokies and emptying a stadium faster than an abandoned rucksack if he carries on with his slash and burn interview technique. I agree players need to be dropped but do it in a way that is not throwing folk under the bus in public.
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