|
Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 5, 2018 6:42:51 GMT
Was always going to happen if we didn't get off to a flyer playing the fans poster boys. Because of huge incompetence of the past 3 years The job is a Poisoned chalice, the fans want a face to hiss, boo and scream at, it's rowett He’s hardly helping himself though is he? No he hasn't, I think he has made a few rookie mistakes and is learning about his squad on the job and what his personal can & cant do in these opening fixtures. Its a big rebuild job and we can only imagine what he's had to deal with since he come in. People wanted a young manager and are now complaining because we have one. I was firmly in the Allardyce camp, i was screaming for it well mark hughes will still robbing a living from us. The size of the job was screaming out for an experienced head with a track record of turning teams around but the football purists wouldn't have accepted a "journey man dinosaur". Rowett has not been helped by Coates' pre-seaon comments either about possibly returning to the premiership at the first attempt, the job in hand to do that is a massive one. It's heightened fans expectations and so have the bookies. I was expecting us to steam roll teams myself listening to Coates' comments expecting us to pull out all the stops with no expense spared, i honestly thought with the Coates' potential finnacial muscle they would be embarrassed enough by last season to blow everybody out of the water and bring in whoever we needed to ensure promotion was a for gone conclusion. They can't even get him his 'A' targets . Newcastle come down they don't mess about, benitez gets in Gayle & Ritchie straight away and that's with Mike Ashley in charge. Rowett will get it right but he needs patience, the sooner people realise this is a project and we're not going up first time of asking the better
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2018 7:03:06 GMT
He’s hardly helping himself though is he? No he hasn't, I think he has made a few rookie mistakes and is learning about his squad on the job and what his personal can & cant do in these opening fixtures. Its a big rebuild job and we can only imagine what he's had to deal with since he come in. People wanted a young manager and are now complaining because we have one. I was firmly in the Allardyce camp, i was screaming for it well mark hughes will still robbing a living from us. The size of the job was screaming out for an experienced head with a track record of turning teams around but the football purists wouldn't have accepted a "journey man dinosaur". Rowett has not been helped by Coates' pre-seaon comments either about possibly returning to the premiership at the first attempt, the job in hand to do that is a massive one. It's heightened fans expectations and so have the bookies. I was expecting us to steam roll teams myself listening to Coates' comments expecting us to pull out all the stops with no expense spared, i honestly thought with the Coates' potential finnacial muscle they would be embarrassed enough by last season to blow everybody out of the water and bring in whoever we needed to ensure promotion was a for gone conclusion. They can't even get him his 'A' targets . Newcastle come down they don't mess about, benitez gets in Gayle & Ritchie straight away and that's with Mike Ashley in charge. Rowett will get it right but he needs patience, the sooner people realise this is a project and we're not going up first time of asking the better Have to take issue with quite a lot of that to be honest. 1) Rowett is not a 'rookie' manager. He's been a manager for six years and this is his fourth club. He had a reputation as one of the brightest prospects in the division and was fairly recently being touted for a crack at Prem jobs. He really can't play that card. 2) Yes, he had a fairly decent sized job on his hands with a squad in the habit of losing. Yet for all it's unbalanced this is a squad with more than enough talent to at least be competitive in this league and he's had one of the biggest budgets as well. If Coates hadn't made noises about an instant return he'd have been accused of a lack of ambition wouldn't he? Rowett has more than enough to work with but he's yet to put any kind of stamp on the team. Leeds are recognisably a Bielsa team despite him being appointed after Rowett and not really being able to speak English. Swansea were probably in a worse state than us and their manager, who has no experience of managing in English football at any level, has them in much better shape playing much better stuff. 3) Allardyce was never coming. He's not interested in the Championship and no Championship club is going to pay him £6m a year., 4) Newcastle are a much bigger club with a much bigger pull, you really can't compare us to them.
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on Sept 5, 2018 7:06:34 GMT
I still believe Bauer is our best option at right back. Was he really any worse than the others in the back four the first couple of games? Yes, I was there and he didn't play well, but he wasn't the only one. You will always need to defend as a team which we didn't at the time.
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 5, 2018 7:25:50 GMT
No he hasn't, I think he has made a few rookie mistakes and is learning about his squad on the job and what his personal can & cant do in these opening fixtures. Its a big rebuild job and we can only imagine what he's had to deal with since he come in. People wanted a young manager and are now complaining because we have one. I was firmly in the Allardyce camp, i was screaming for it well mark hughes will still robbing a living from us. The size of the job was screaming out for an experienced head with a track record of turning teams around but the football purists wouldn't have accepted a "journey man dinosaur". Rowett has not been helped by Coates' pre-seaon comments either about possibly returning to the premiership at the first attempt, the job in hand to do that is a massive one. It's heightened fans expectations and so have the bookies. I was expecting us to steam roll teams myself listening to Coates' comments expecting us to pull out all the stops with no expense spared, i honestly thought with the Coates' potential finnacial muscle they would be embarrassed enough by last season to blow everybody out of the water and bring in whoever we needed to ensure promotion was a for gone conclusion. They can't even get him his 'A' targets . Newcastle come down they don't mess about, benitez gets in Gayle & Ritchie straight away and that's with Mike Ashley in charge. Rowett will get it right but he needs patience, the sooner people realise this is a project and we're not going up first time of asking the better Have to take issue with quite a lot of that to be honest. 1) Rowett is not a 'rookie' manager. He's been a manager for six years and this is his fourth club. He had a reputation as one of the brightest prospects in the division and was fairly recently being touted for a crack at Prem jobs. He really can't play that card. 2) Yes, he had a fairly decent sized job on his hands with a squad in the habit of losing. Yet for all it's unbalanced this is a squad with more than enough talent to at least be competitive in this league and he's had one of the biggest budgets as well. If Coates hadn't made noises about an instant return he'd have been accused of a lack of ambition wouldn't he? Rowett has more than enough to work with but he's yet to put any kind of stamp on the team. Leeds are recognisably a Bielsa team despite him being appointed after Rowett and not really being able to speak English. Swansea were probably in a worse state than us and their manager, who has no experience of managing in English football at any level, has them in much better shape playing much better stuff. 3) Allardyce was never coming. He's not interested in the Championship and no Championship club is going to pay him £6m a year., 4) Newcastle are a much bigger club with a much bigger pull, you really can't compare us to them. I understand and can agree/disagree with points in two excellent posts. I personally would have liked to have witnessed a real push (not rumour) for David Moyes (last season), but that’s a personal opinion. I think he has the credentials to either of prevented relegation in the first place or take us back up at the first time attempt What I am disappointed (that’s a massive understatement) is that the Coates family have not; (a) Got rid of Scholes as he was/is the architect and protector of a failed recruitment process which is still creating problems even now (b) Delivered on their platitudes about learning lessons (c) Demonstrated any real intent of pushing for promotion in a very difficult league, “blowing others out of the water” in financial terms for the recruitment of quality players
|
|
|
Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 5, 2018 7:29:31 GMT
No he hasn't, I think he has made a few rookie mistakes and is learning about his squad on the job and what his personal can & cant do in these opening fixtures. Its a big rebuild job and we can only imagine what he's had to deal with since he come in. People wanted a young manager and are now complaining because we have one. I was firmly in the Allardyce camp, i was screaming for it well mark hughes will still robbing a living from us. The size of the job was screaming out for an experienced head with a track record of turning teams around but the football purists wouldn't have accepted a "journey man dinosaur". Rowett has not been helped by Coates' pre-seaon comments either about possibly returning to the premiership at the first attempt, the job in hand to do that is a massive one. It's heightened fans expectations and so have the bookies. I was expecting us to steam roll teams myself listening to Coates' comments expecting us to pull out all the stops with no expense spared, i honestly thought with the Coates' potential finnacial muscle they would be embarrassed enough by last season to blow everybody out of the water and bring in whoever we needed to ensure promotion was a for gone conclusion. They can't even get him his 'A' targets . Newcastle come down they don't mess about, benitez gets in Gayle & Ritchie straight away and that's with Mike Ashley in charge. Rowett will get it right but he needs patience, the sooner people realise this is a project and we're not going up first time of asking the better Have to take issue with quite a lot of that to be honest. 1) Rowett is not a 'rookie' manager. He's been a manager for six years and this is his fourth club. He had a reputation as one of the brightest prospects in the division and was fairly recently being touted for a crack at Prem jobs. He really can't play that card. 2) Yes, he had a fairly decent sized job on his hands with a squad in the habit of losing. Yet for all it's unbalanced this is a squad with more than enough talent to at least be competitive in this league and he's had one of the biggest budgets as well. If Coates hadn't made noises about an instant return he'd have been accused of a lack of ambition wouldn't he? Rowett has more than enough to work with but he's yet to put any kind of stamp on the team. Leeds are recognisably a Bielsa team despite him being appointed after Rowett and not really being able to speak English. Swansea were probably in a worse state than us and their manager, who has no experience of managing in English football at any level, has them in much better shape playing much better stuff. 3) Allardyce was never coming. He's not interested in the Championship and no Championship club is going to pay him £6m a year., 4) Newcastle are a much bigger club with a much bigger pull, you really can't compare us to them. Ritchie & Chester should be well within our reach, there are no excuses we have been a premiership club for 10 years. I'm not buying the stoke small club theory. With the right ambition I believe we could have got these players, it's not like they are massive premiership names. Same with Allardyce, big the guy up as your top target, offer him his 6m a year & a 5 year contract along with a tempting budget. After them 5 years stoke are a solid outfit again then we look to progress. Building anything you need solid foundations,we're winging it and have been for 3 years. I cant believe Allardyce wouldn't have come if he had a serious budget & guaranteed time to actually do something with it. It's up to the board to make it an attractive proposition that's their job. I was calling for Allardyce before he even went to Everton, if we'd have got him then we would still be a premiership club now. Rowett does know this league and he will get it right, such is the state of our squad though I expect next summer will be even busier than this one, that's the size of the job he has taken on
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2018 7:52:53 GMT
Have to take issue with quite a lot of that to be honest. 1) Rowett is not a 'rookie' manager. He's been a manager for six years and this is his fourth club. He had a reputation as one of the brightest prospects in the division and was fairly recently being touted for a crack at Prem jobs. He really can't play that card. 2) Yes, he had a fairly decent sized job on his hands with a squad in the habit of losing. Yet for all it's unbalanced this is a squad with more than enough talent to at least be competitive in this league and he's had one of the biggest budgets as well. If Coates hadn't made noises about an instant return he'd have been accused of a lack of ambition wouldn't he? Rowett has more than enough to work with but he's yet to put any kind of stamp on the team. Leeds are recognisably a Bielsa team despite him being appointed after Rowett and not really being able to speak English. Swansea were probably in a worse state than us and their manager, who has no experience of managing in English football at any level, has them in much better shape playing much better stuff. 3) Allardyce was never coming. He's not interested in the Championship and no Championship club is going to pay him £6m a year., 4) Newcastle are a much bigger club with a much bigger pull, you really can't compare us to them. Ritchie & Chester should be well within our reach, there are no excuses we have been a premiership club for 10 years. I'm not buying the stoke small club theory. With the right ambition I believe we could have got these players, it's not like they are massive premiership names. Same with Allardyce, big the guy up as your top target, offer him his 6m a year & a 5 year contract along with a tempting budget. After them 5 years stoke are a solid outfit again then we look to progress. Building anything you need solid foundations,we're winging it and have been for 3 years. I cant believe Allardyce wouldn't have come if he had a serious budget & guaranteed time to actually do something with it. It's up to the board to make it an attractive proposition that's their job. I was calling for Allardyce before he even went to Everton, if we'd have got him then we would still be a premiership club now. Rowett does know this league and he will get it right, such is the state of our squad though I expect next summer will be even busier than this one, that's the size of the job he has taken on I'm not saying Stoke are a small club, I'm saying Newcastle are a much bigger one. Also, you're not factoring in the agency of others in all this. With Chester, yes, we might have offered their asking price when they were in the mire, instead of dicking around. But even then there were no guarantees, as the player preferred to stay there. With Richie, we were supposedly prepared to pay top whack for him and pay him £76,000 a week. The issue was that Newcastle wouldn't sell without a replacement. Said replacement didn't come, hence him starting games in the Premier League this season. What should we have done that we didn't do? You're not being realistic with Allardyce. As I said in another post the other day, he quit a Premier League job at Palace because he was ready to retire and said it would need a top job to lure him out of retirement. Everton was that top job, and even then they had to pay him £6m a year. Again, no club our size in this league is going to pay a manager that kind of money, and he has nothing to prove and no desire to manage as even a Premier League fire fighter, let alone a Championship manager - a level he's seen it all and done it all at anyway. It's a pipe dream.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2018 7:53:58 GMT
Have to take issue with quite a lot of that to be honest. 1) Rowett is not a 'rookie' manager. He's been a manager for six years and this is his fourth club. He had a reputation as one of the brightest prospects in the division and was fairly recently being touted for a crack at Prem jobs. He really can't play that card. 2) Yes, he had a fairly decent sized job on his hands with a squad in the habit of losing. Yet for all it's unbalanced this is a squad with more than enough talent to at least be competitive in this league and he's had one of the biggest budgets as well. If Coates hadn't made noises about an instant return he'd have been accused of a lack of ambition wouldn't he? Rowett has more than enough to work with but he's yet to put any kind of stamp on the team. Leeds are recognisably a Bielsa team despite him being appointed after Rowett and not really being able to speak English. Swansea were probably in a worse state than us and their manager, who has no experience of managing in English football at any level, has them in much better shape playing much better stuff. 3) Allardyce was never coming. He's not interested in the Championship and no Championship club is going to pay him £6m a year., 4) Newcastle are a much bigger club with a much bigger pull, you really can't compare us to them. I understand and can agree/disagree with points in two excellent posts. I personally would have liked to have witnessed a real push (not rumour) for David Moyes (last season), but that’s a personal opinion. I think he has the credentials to either of prevented relegation in the first place or take us back up at the first time attempt What I am disappointed (that’s a massive understatement) is that the Coates family have not; (a) Got rid of Scholes as he was/is the architect and protector of a failed recruitment process which is still creating problems even now (b) Delivered on their platitudes about learning lessons (c) Demonstrated any real intent of pushing for promotion in a very difficult league, “blowing others out of the water” in financial terms for the recruitment of quality players I agree with a and b, but as far as C goes, I feel like we have shown intent. We've spent more than the vast majority. We've kept most of our better players. We were prepared to pay players like Richie top whack.
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 5, 2018 8:30:42 GMT
I understand and can agree/disagree with points in two excellent posts. I personally would have liked to have witnessed a real push (not rumour) for David Moyes (last season), but that’s a personal opinion. I think he has the credentials to either of prevented relegation in the first place or take us back up at the first time attempt What I am disappointed (that’s a massive understatement) is that the Coates family have not; (a) Got rid of Scholes as he was/is the architect and protector of a failed recruitment process which is still creating problems even now (b) Delivered on their platitudes about learning lessons (c) Demonstrated any real intent of pushing for promotion in a very difficult league, “blowing others out of the water” in financial terms for the recruitment of quality players I agree with a and b, but as far as C goes, I feel like we have shown intent. We've spent more than the vast majority. We've kept most of our better players. We were prepared to pay players like Richie top whack. Acquisition demonstrates intent!! We should have been in a position to know Ritchie was a no-goer (possibly before the end of last season) and moved on. Perhaps you can call me a cynic in respect of comment from the club (I think you’ll understand why) or through the media. Unless I see a supposed target comment, then for me its simply hot air to placate us supporters
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2018 8:57:03 GMT
I agree with a and b, but as far as C goes, I feel like we have shown intent. We've spent more than the vast majority. We've kept most of our better players. We were prepared to pay players like Richie top whack. Acquisition demonstrates intent!! We should have been in a position to know Ritchie was a no-goer (possibly before the end of last season) and moved on. Perhaps you can call me a cynic in respect of comment from the club (I think you’ll understand why) or through the media. Unless I see a supposed target comment, then for me its simply hot air to placate us supporters I don't think it works like that always though. You take a chance in the window sometimes on players that don't become available until later in the window - Pulis, pre plot-loss, was a master of that and it's how he got players like Whelan, Pennant and Crouch through the door. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. We moved on and went for Ince. We couldn't have done it before the end of last season because we didn't have Rowett then and Ritchie was Rowett's man, like most of our signings.
|
|
|
Post by trotter1980 on Sept 5, 2018 9:01:00 GMT
i was at the game Saturday. how was cuco culpable for the 2nd goal? surely Butland being beat at the near post is culpable? cuco looks far more solid than Bauer in defence. I do like Bauer going forward and would use him if we go 3-5-2 I was at the game also. Jack should have saved the 2nd goal without question. Had cuco done his job properly in the 1st place Jack wouldn't have had a save to make at all...hence I wrote that cuco was culpable or partly culpable for both goals...obviously because Jack was also culpable for the 2nd goal. just watched it back and to be honest you are right! I thought it was shawcross who let him run
|
|
|
Post by thevoid on Sept 5, 2018 9:07:06 GMT
Why hasn't Rowett dropped Ryan then? Because when your options are Williams and BMI you stick with the best of a bad bunch. Who signed Williams?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 9:14:27 GMT
Because when your options are Williams and BMI you stick with the best of a bad bunch. Who signed Williams? Now there's a loaded question...
|
|
|
Post by maliciousdamage on Sept 5, 2018 9:16:39 GMT
No he hasn't, I think he has made a few rookie mistakes and is learning about his squad on the job and what his personal can & cant do in these opening fixtures. Its a big rebuild job and we can only imagine what he's had to deal with since he come in. People wanted a young manager and are now complaining because we have one. I was firmly in the Allardyce camp, i was screaming for it well mark hughes will still robbing a living from us. The size of the job was screaming out for an experienced head with a track record of turning teams around but the football purists wouldn't have accepted a "journey man dinosaur". Rowett has not been helped by Coates' pre-seaon comments either about possibly returning to the premiership at the first attempt, the job in hand to do that is a massive one. It's heightened fans expectations and so have the bookies. I was expecting us to steam roll teams myself listening to Coates' comments expecting us to pull out all the stops with no expense spared, i honestly thought with the Coates' potential finnacial muscle they would be embarrassed enough by last season to blow everybody out of the water and bring in whoever we needed to ensure promotion was a for gone conclusion. They can't even get him his 'A' targets . Newcastle come down they don't mess about, benitez gets in Gayle & Ritchie straight away and that's with Mike Ashley in charge. Rowett will get it right but he needs patience, the sooner people realise this is a project and we're not going up first time of asking the better Have to take issue with quite a lot of that to be honest. 1) Rowett is not a 'rookie' manager. He's been a manager for six years and this is his fourth club. He had a reputation as one of the brightest prospects in the division and was fairly recently being touted for a crack at Prem jobs. He really can't play that card. 2) Yes, he had a fairly decent sized job on his hands with a squad in the habit of losing. Yet for all it's unbalanced this is a squad with more than enough talent to at least be competitive in this league and he's had one of the biggest budgets as well. If Coates hadn't made noises about an instant return he'd have been accused of a lack of ambition wouldn't he? Rowett has more than enough to work with but he's yet to put any kind of stamp on the team. Leeds are recognisably a Bielsa team despite him being appointed after Rowett and not really being able to speak English. Swansea were probably in a worse state than us and their manager, who has no experience of managing in English football at any level, has them in much better shape playing much better stuff. 3) Allardyce was never coming. He's not interested in the Championship and no Championship club is going to pay him £6m a year., 4) Newcastle are a much bigger club with a much bigger pull, you really can't compare us to them. I’d agree with these comments Rowett was sold to us because he apparently knew this league like the back of his hand and knew what is needed to get us out of it he must have influenced Coates etc for them to give him and all his back room staff the chance to do it We’ve been told they have backed in in the transfer window and that he wanted Afobe not Gayle Allardyce knows full well if he sits around long enough a prem club at the wrong end of the table will come calling with a big enough pay deal to satisfy his needs Newcastle had to back Benetiz to keep him he could have gone to a larger continental club if he wished too or a Prem club if one came calling and like Toxic says they are massively bigger in stature
|
|
|
Post by maliciousdamage on Sept 5, 2018 9:20:46 GMT
Now there's a loaded question... Ok so we know he wanted Chester who wouldn’t come so if HE didn’t sign Williams how come he couldn’t find another centre half in the championship capable of doing the job after all he tells us he knows this league inside out?! That’s what gets me he’s supposed to be ‘the man’ with all the knowledge of the championship!
|
|
|
Post by berahinosgoals on Sept 5, 2018 10:15:59 GMT
Ritchie & Chester should be well within our reach, there are no excuses we have been a premiership club for 10 years. I'm not buying the stoke small club theory. With the right ambition I believe we could have got these players, it's not like they are massive premiership names. Same with Allardyce, big the guy up as your top target, offer him his 6m a year & a 5 year contract along with a tempting budget. After them 5 years stoke are a solid outfit again then we look to progress. Building anything you need solid foundations,we're winging it and have been for 3 years. I cant believe Allardyce wouldn't have come if he had a serious budget & guaranteed time to actually do something with it. It's up to the board to make it an attractive proposition that's their job. I was calling for Allardyce before he even went to Everton, if we'd have got him then we would still be a premiership club now. Rowett does know this league and he will get it right, such is the state of our squad though I expect next summer will be even busier than this one, that's the size of the job he has taken on I'm not saying Stoke are a small club, I'm saying Newcastle are a much bigger one. Also, you're not factoring in the agency of others in all this. With Chester, yes, we might have offered their asking price when they were in the mire, instead of dicking around. But even then there were no guarantees, as the player preferred to stay there. With Richie, we were supposedly prepared to pay top whack for him and pay him £76,000 a week. The issue was that Newcastle wouldn't sell without a replacement. Said replacement didn't come, hence him starting games in the Premier League this season. What should we have done that we didn't do? You're not being realistic with Allardyce. As I said in another post the other day, he quit a Premier League job at Palace because he was ready to retire and said it would need a top job to lure him out of retirement. Everton was that top job, and even then they had to pay him £6m a year. Again, no club our size in this league is going to pay a manager that kind of money, and he has nothing to prove and no desire to manage as even a Premier League fire fighter, let alone a Championship manager - a level he's seen it all and done it all at anyway. It's a pipe dream. Maybe allardyce was out of reach but I'd have liked to us at least see us try our best and offer him a package that would take some ignoring. I believe on here it's called "going balls deep". Ritchie, o.k but other clubs don't struggle & given our record of drawing things out and our recent (or not so recent) but prolonged failure at nailing our preferred targets of the past a few seasons I can't believe another club in our position wouldn't have got it done if he was an 'A' target. We should have offered nufc more money so they could offer more money for their replacement, as they were desperate for funds was the general consensus. Do we want to go up or 'try' going up shrewdly? Nothing is a certain but you can stack the odds in your favour. Newcastle are a big club but our pulling power as a championship club shouldn't be under estimated after 10 years of premiership club if the ambition is there. Allardyce would have surely backed himself for an instant return.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2018 10:28:39 GMT
I'm not saying Stoke are a small club, I'm saying Newcastle are a much bigger one. Also, you're not factoring in the agency of others in all this. With Chester, yes, we might have offered their asking price when they were in the mire, instead of dicking around. But even then there were no guarantees, as the player preferred to stay there. With Richie, we were supposedly prepared to pay top whack for him and pay him £76,000 a week. The issue was that Newcastle wouldn't sell without a replacement. Said replacement didn't come, hence him starting games in the Premier League this season. What should we have done that we didn't do? You're not being realistic with Allardyce. As I said in another post the other day, he quit a Premier League job at Palace because he was ready to retire and said it would need a top job to lure him out of retirement. Everton was that top job, and even then they had to pay him £6m a year. Again, no club our size in this league is going to pay a manager that kind of money, and he has nothing to prove and no desire to manage as even a Premier League fire fighter, let alone a Championship manager - a level he's seen it all and done it all at anyway. It's a pipe dream. Maybe allardyce was out of reach but I'd have liked to us at least see us try our best and offer him a package that would take some ignoring. I believe on here it's called "going balls deep". Ritchie, o.k but other clubs don't struggle & given our record of drawing things out and our recent (or not so recent) but prolonged failure at nailing our preferred targets of the past a few seasons I can't believe another club in our position wouldn't have got it done if he was an 'A' target. We should have offered nufc more money so they could offer more money for their replacement, as they were desperate for funds was the general consensus. Do we want to go up or 'try' going up shrewdly? Nothing is a certain but you can stack the odds in your favour. Newcastle are a big club but our pulling power as a championship club shouldn't be under estimated after 10 years of premiership club if the ambition is there. Allardyce would have surely backed himself for an instant return. I don't agree that other clubs don't struggle. This window in particular suggests that's very much not the case, particularly in this league. Ashley demands silly money for players and Benitez didn't want Ritchie going without a replacement. We weren't the only club that wanted him and he went nowhere, and we were prepared to pay a sizeable fee and humoungous wages to get him. They're not desperate for funds - Ashley just won't spend them. We have backed ourselves for an instant return with our outlay. We did have decent pulling power, within reason. That's why we were made favourites, because of our outlay and the players we were able to retain on sizeable wages.
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 5, 2018 10:42:50 GMT
Acquisition demonstrates intent!! We should have been in a position to know Ritchie was a no-goer (possibly before the end of last season) and moved on. Perhaps you can call me a cynic in respect of comment from the club (I think you’ll understand why) or through the media. Unless I see a supposed target comment, then for me its simply hot air to placate us supporters I don't think it works like that always though. You take a chance in the window sometimes on players that don't become available until later in the window - Pulis, pre plot-loss, was a master of that and it's how he got players like Whelan, Pennant and Crouch through the door. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. We moved on and went for Ince. We couldn't have done it before the end of last season because we didn't have Rowett then and Ritchie was Rowett's man, like most of our signings. I fully understand that transfers aren’t as straightforward as we would all hope. However money talks in all walks of life and a billion £ owner can flex their financial muscle if there is a “desire” to
|
|
|
Post by rawli on Sept 5, 2018 10:43:21 GMT
I'm not saying Stoke are a small club, I'm saying Newcastle are a much bigger one. Also, you're not factoring in the agency of others in all this. With Chester, yes, we might have offered their asking price when they were in the mire, instead of dicking around. But even then there were no guarantees, as the player preferred to stay there. With Richie, we were supposedly prepared to pay top whack for him and pay him £76,000 a week. The issue was that Newcastle wouldn't sell without a replacement. Said replacement didn't come, hence him starting games in the Premier League this season. What should we have done that we didn't do? You're not being realistic with Allardyce. As I said in another post the other day, he quit a Premier League job at Palace because he was ready to retire and said it would need a top job to lure him out of retirement. Everton was that top job, and even then they had to pay him £6m a year. Again, no club our size in this league is going to pay a manager that kind of money, and he has nothing to prove and no desire to manage as even a Premier League fire fighter, let alone a Championship manager - a level he's seen it all and done it all at anyway. It's a pipe dream. Maybe allardyce was out of reach but I'd have liked to us at least see us try our best and offer him a package that would take some ignoring. I believe on here it's called "going balls deep". Ritchie, o.k but other clubs don't struggle & given our record of drawing things out and our recent (or not so recent) but prolonged failure at nailing our preferred targets of the past a few seasons I can't believe another club in our position wouldn't have got it done if he was an 'A' target. We should have offered nufc more money so they could offer more money for their replacement, as they were desperate for funds was the general consensus. Do we want to go up or 'try' going up shrewdly? Nothing is a certain but you can stack the odds in your favour. Newcastle are a big club but our pulling power as a championship club shouldn't be under estimated after 10 years of premiership club if the ambition is there. Allardyce would have surely backed himself for an instant return. Once you're out of the premier league your pulling power for good experienced players is negligible. You're left with hasbeens or young loanees. Better strategy is to look down the leagues and try to cherry pick the best from there.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2018 11:05:47 GMT
I don't think it works like that always though. You take a chance in the window sometimes on players that don't become available until later in the window - Pulis, pre plot-loss, was a master of that and it's how he got players like Whelan, Pennant and Crouch through the door. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. We moved on and went for Ince. We couldn't have done it before the end of last season because we didn't have Rowett then and Ritchie was Rowett's man, like most of our signings. I fully understand that transfers aren’t as straightforward as we would all hope. However money talks in all walks of life and a billion £ owner can flex their financial muscle if there is a “desire” to Where's the cut-off though? Should we pay whatever daft transfer fee they wanted to make it happen? £30m? £40m? What kind of club our size at this level operates that way?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 11:19:18 GMT
Now there's a loaded question... Ok so we know he wanted Chester who wouldn’t come so if HE didn’t sign Williams how come he couldn’t find another centre half in the championship capable of doing the job after all he tells us he knows this league inside out?! That’s what gets me he’s supposed to be ‘the man’ with all the knowledge of the championship! Now there's a loaded answer... 😁
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on Sept 5, 2018 11:56:57 GMT
Maybe allardyce was out of reach but I'd have liked to us at least see us try our best and offer him a package that would take some ignoring. I believe on here it's called "going balls deep". Ritchie, o.k but other clubs don't struggle & given our record of drawing things out and our recent (or not so recent) but prolonged failure at nailing our preferred targets of the past a few seasons I can't believe another club in our position wouldn't have got it done if he was an 'A' target. We should have offered nufc more money so they could offer more money for their replacement, as they were desperate for funds was the general consensus. Do we want to go up or 'try' going up shrewdly? Nothing is a certain but you can stack the odds in your favour. Newcastle are a big club but our pulling power as a championship club shouldn't be under estimated after 10 years of premiership club if the ambition is there. Allardyce would have surely backed himself for an instant return. Once you're out of the premier league your pulling power for good experienced players is negligible. You're left with hasbeens or young loanees. Better strategy is to look down the leagues and try to cherry pick the best from there. Indeed... over to our knowledgeable manager...
|
|
|
Post by madeleystokie on Sept 5, 2018 12:11:04 GMT
I don't get the love in over Bauer personally. I think everyone overreacted to the fact that we actually had a pacy right-back after the years of Johnson there that they've overlooked his defensive capabilities. He did nothing to improve us as the season ended and wasn't any worse or better than the performances that Edwards put in. To then drop down a league and show no improvement on his defending only confirmed those suspicions.
He's a likeable guy and does offer more going forwards but please stop jumping on the 'he's good enough for the top 6' bandwagon.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Sept 5, 2018 12:24:46 GMT
I don't get the love in over Bauer personally. I think everyone overreacted to the fact that we actually had a pacy right-back after the years of Johnson there that they've overlooked his defensive capabilities. He did nothing to improve us as the season ended and wasn't any worse or better than the performances that Edwards put in. To then drop down a league and show no improvement on his defending only confirmed those suspicions. He's a likeable guy and does offer more going forwards but please stop jumping on the 'he's good enough for the top 6' bandwagon. That line of thinking is pretty damning on on the Pizza Boys though, isn't it? We had a defender who had 4 years left on his deal, presumably on significantly reduced money after relegation and with the previous manager not really trusting to play him at full-back. And the decision-makers decided to give him a new 5-yr deal with his wages bumped back up in early July. Presumably the thinking must have been that he was so good that he'd be agitating to go if we didn't do this, and that Rowett would soon realise he was a big asset and would be happy with him as our starting right-back for the foreseeable future? To be fair to Rowett, he hadn't really had time to evaluate him at all when the decision was made, and we certainly hadn't played any pre-season friendlies - but the language used on the day of the announcement certainly looks interesting now... www.stokecityfc.com/news/bauer-deal-another-huge-statement-rowett“We wanted as many of the players who we felt could make a massive difference to buy in to what we are doing and commit to the Club.
“First and foremost it’s a statement of intent from the Club that we want to be strong and possibly stronger than last season and secondly it’s confirmation that players can see that we’re planning for a real push. Its fantastic news and I’m looking forward to working with another top player.”
Rowett added: “I’ve watched quite a lot of the games from last season and Moritz was one of the ones who stood out just because of his energy, quality and I thought his attitude was fantastic.
“Obviously his versatility is also an added bonus, although I predominately see him as an attacking right-back.
“Since I’ve started working with him I’ve been really impressed with his attitude. He wants to work, he wants to stay behind after training and do extra because he’s so diligent and professional and I think it’s another good news story for the Club.”
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 12:43:45 GMT
I don't get the love in over Bauer personally. I think everyone overreacted to the fact that we actually had a pacy right-back after the years of Johnson there that they've overlooked his defensive capabilities. He did nothing to improve us as the season ended and wasn't any worse or better than the performances that Edwards put in. To then drop down a league and show no improvement on his defending only confirmed those suspicions. He's a likeable guy and does offer more going forwards but please stop jumping on the 'he's good enough for the top 6' bandwagon. That line of thinking is pretty damning on on the Pizza Boys though, isn't it? We had a defender who had 4 years left on his deal, presumably on significantly reduced money after relegation and with the previous manager not really trusting to play him at full-back. And the decision-makers decided to give him a new 5-yr deal with his wages bumped back up in early July. Presumably the thinking must have been that he was so good that he'd be agitating to go if we didn't do this, and that Rowett would soon realise he was a big asset and would be happy with him as our starting right-back for the foreseeable future? To be fair to Rowett, he hadn't really had time to evaluate him at all when the decision was made, and we certainly hadn't played any pre-season friendlies - but the language used on the day of the announcement certainly looks interesting now... www.stokecityfc.com/news/bauer-deal-another-huge-statement-rowett“We wanted as many of the players who we felt could make a massive difference to buy in to what we are doing and commit to the Club.
“First and foremost it’s a statement of intent from the Club that we want to be strong and possibly stronger than last season and secondly it’s confirmation that players can see that we’re planning for a real push. Its fantastic news and I’m looking forward to working with another top player.”
Rowett added: “I’ve watched quite a lot of the games from last season and Moritz was one of the ones who stood out just because of his energy, quality and I thought his attitude was fantastic.
“Obviously his versatility is also an added bonus, although I predominately see him as an attacking right-back.
“Since I’ve started working with him I’ve been really impressed with his attitude. He wants to work, he wants to stay behind after training and do extra because he’s so diligent and professional and I think it’s another good news story for the Club.”
Wow. I knew he praised him but I could never remember him stopping one step short of declaring his undying love for him, whilst wanting his babies. What on earth has gone on here then? There surely has to be more to this than meets the eye, for Rowett's opinion/actions to shift so much in a short space of time?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 12:49:48 GMT
I still believe Bauer is our best option at right back. Was he really any worse than the others in the back four the first couple of games? Yes, I was there and he didn't play well, but he wasn't the only one. You will always need to defend as a team which we didn't at the time. I would say he is better/played better than some players who keep getting picked every match, despite their consistently poor performances. Somethings not right.
|
|
|
Post by jezzascfc on Sept 5, 2018 12:55:18 GMT
Now there's a loaded question... Ok so we know he wanted Chester who wouldn’t come so if HE didn’t sign Williams how come he couldn’t find another centre half in the championship capable of doing the job after all he tells us he knows this league inside out?! That’s what gets me he’s supposed to be ‘the man’ with all the knowledge of the championship! I was touting Joe Worrall at Forest earlier in the summer and at the end of the loan window he went on loan to Rangers, of all places. I would have loved him here - a young, promising centre back who could have been groomed as Ryan's successor.
|
|
|
Post by jezzascfc on Sept 5, 2018 12:57:42 GMT
As for Bauer, no one at the club comes out of that one looking good. He is suffering due to what looks to be a fall out between Teflon Tony and Poundland Pulis and it stinks.
|
|
|
Post by nott1 on Sept 5, 2018 13:03:37 GMT
I don't get the love in over Bauer personally. I think everyone overreacted to the fact that we actually had a pacy right-back after the years of Johnson there that they've overlooked his defensive capabilities. He did nothing to improve us as the season ended and wasn't any worse or better than the performances that Edwards put in. To then drop down a league and show no improvement on his defending only confirmed those suspicions. He's a likeable guy and does offer more going forwards but please stop jumping on the 'he's good enough for the top 6' bandwagon. That line of thinking is pretty damning on on the Pizza Boys though, isn't it? We had a defender who had 4 years left on his deal, presumably on significantly reduced money after relegation and with the previous manager not really trusting to play him at full-back. And the decision-makers decided to give him a new 5-yr deal with his wages bumped back up in early July. Presumably the thinking must have been that he was so good that he'd be agitating to go if we didn't do this, and that Rowett would soon realise he was a big asset and would be happy with him as our starting right-back for the foreseeable future? To be fair to Rowett, he hadn't really had time to evaluate him at all when the decision was made, and we certainly hadn't played any pre-season friendlies - but the language used on the day of the announcement certainly looks interesting now... www.stokecityfc.com/news/bauer-deal-another-huge-statement-rowett“We wanted as many of the players who we felt could make a massive difference to buy in to what we are doing and commit to the Club.
“First and foremost it’s a statement of intent from the Club that we want to be strong and possibly stronger than last season and secondly it’s confirmation that players can see that we’re planning for a real push. Its fantastic news and I’m looking forward to working with another top player.”
Rowett added: “I’ve watched quite a lot of the games from last season and Moritz was one of the ones who stood out just because of his energy, quality and I thought his attitude was fantastic.
“Obviously his versatility is also an added bonus, although I predominately see him as an attacking right-back.
“Since I’ve started working with him I’ve been really impressed with his attitude. He wants to work, he wants to stay behind after training and do extra because he’s so diligent and professional and I think it’s another good news story for the Club.”
You feckin' liar GR!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 13:04:42 GMT
I don't get the love in over Bauer personally. I think everyone overreacted to the fact that we actually had a pacy right-back after the years of Johnson there that they've overlooked his defensive capabilities. He did nothing to improve us as the season ended and wasn't any worse or better than the performances that Edwards put in. To then drop down a league and show no improvement on his defending only confirmed those suspicions. He's a likeable guy and does offer more going forwards but please stop jumping on the 'he's good enough for the top 6' bandwagon. That line of thinking is pretty damning on on the Pizza Boys though, isn't it? We had a defender who had 4 years left on his deal, presumably on significantly reduced money after relegation and with the previous manager not really trusting to play him at full-back. And the decision-makers decided to give him a new 5-yr deal with his wages bumped back up in early July. Presumably the thinking must have been that he was so good that he'd be agitating to go if we didn't do this, and that Rowett would soon realise he was a big asset and would be happy with him as our starting right-back for the foreseeable future? To be fair to Rowett, he hadn't really had time to evaluate him at all when the decision was made, and we certainly hadn't played any pre-season friendlies - but the language used on the day of the announcement certainly looks interesting now... www.stokecityfc.com/news/bauer-deal-another-huge-statement-rowett“We wanted as many of the players who we felt could make a massive difference to buy in to what we are doing and commit to the Club.
“First and foremost it’s a statement of intent from the Club that we want to be strong and possibly stronger than last season and secondly it’s confirmation that players can see that we’re planning for a real push. Its fantastic news and I’m looking forward to working with another top player.”
Rowett added: “I’ve watched quite a lot of the games from last season and Moritz was one of the ones who stood out just because of his energy, quality and I thought his attitude was fantastic.
“Obviously his versatility is also an added bonus, although I predominately see him as an attacking right-back.
“Since I’ve started working with him I’ve been really impressed with his attitude. He wants to work, he wants to stay behind after training and do extra because he’s so diligent and professional and I think it’s another good news story for the Club.”
Our club is just weird at the moment.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2018 13:05:30 GMT
As for Bauer, no one at the club comes out of that one looking good. He is suffering due to what looks to be a fall out between Teflon Tony and Poundland Pulis and it stinks. And the fact that, you know, he hasn't been very good.
|
|