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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2018 13:06:23 GMT
That line of thinking is pretty damning on on the Pizza Boys though, isn't it? We had a defender who had 4 years left on his deal, presumably on significantly reduced money after relegation and with the previous manager not really trusting to play him at full-back. And the decision-makers decided to give him a new 5-yr deal with his wages bumped back up in early July. Presumably the thinking must have been that he was so good that he'd be agitating to go if we didn't do this, and that Rowett would soon realise he was a big asset and would be happy with him as our starting right-back for the foreseeable future? To be fair to Rowett, he hadn't really had time to evaluate him at all when the decision was made, and we certainly hadn't played any pre-season friendlies - but the language used on the day of the announcement certainly looks interesting now... www.stokecityfc.com/news/bauer-deal-another-huge-statement-rowett“We wanted as many of the players who we felt could make a massive difference to buy in to what we are doing and commit to the Club.
“First and foremost it’s a statement of intent from the Club that we want to be strong and possibly stronger than last season and secondly it’s confirmation that players can see that we’re planning for a real push. Its fantastic news and I’m looking forward to working with another top player.”
Rowett added: “I’ve watched quite a lot of the games from last season and Moritz was one of the ones who stood out just because of his energy, quality and I thought his attitude was fantastic.
“Obviously his versatility is also an added bonus, although I predominately see him as an attacking right-back.
“Since I’ve started working with him I’ve been really impressed with his attitude. He wants to work, he wants to stay behind after training and do extra because he’s so diligent and professional and I think it’s another good news story for the Club.”
Wow. I knew he praised him but I could never remember him stopping one step short of declaring his undying love for him, whilst wanting his babies. What on earth has gone on here then? There surely has to be more to this than meets the eye, for Rowett's opinion/actions to shift so much in a short space of time? Is there, or did he make the right noises when he was appointed and then decide otherwise having actually seen him up close?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 13:09:26 GMT
Wow. I knew he praised him but I could never remember him stopping one step short of declaring his undying love for him, whilst wanting his babies. What on earth has gone on here then? There surely has to be more to this than meets the eye, for Rowett's opinion/actions to shift so much in a short space of time? Is there, or did he make the right noises when he was appointed and then decide otherwise having actually seen him up close? "Since I’ve started working with him I’ve been really impressed with his attitude. He wants to work, he wants to stay behind after training and do extra because he’s so diligent and professional and I think it’s another good news story for the Club.” It's a bit of a shift from that to U-23s football isn't it? In terms of football that's a seismic shift, even allowing for manager flannel.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2018 13:15:51 GMT
Is there, or did he make the right noises when he was appointed and then decide otherwise having actually seen him up close? "Since I’ve started working with him I’ve been really impressed with his attitude. He wants to work, he wants to stay behind after training and do extra because he’s so diligent and professional and I think it’s another good news story for the Club.” It's a bit of a shift from that to U-23s football isn't it? In terms of football that's a seismic shift, even allowing for manager flannel. He talks a lot about his attitude but not his actual football or how he fits into his plans. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Bauer's taken his demotion badly and it does seem fairly brutal, but there's no evidence to suggest this is anything more than a defensive manager furrowing his brow at a cavalier full back.
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Post by jezzascfc on Sept 5, 2018 13:41:32 GMT
As for Bauer, no one at the club comes out of that one looking good. He is suffering due to what looks to be a fall out between Teflon Tony and Poundland Pulis and it stinks. And the fact that, you know, he hasn't been very good. Join the queue - several others have been poor, but he has been singled out for special treatment: why?
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 5, 2018 13:54:52 GMT
I don't get the love in over Bauer personally. I think everyone overreacted to the fact that we actually had a pacy right-back after the years of Johnson there that they've overlooked his defensive capabilities. He did nothing to improve us as the season ended and wasn't any worse or better than the performances that Edwards put in. To then drop down a league and show no improvement on his defending only confirmed those suspicions. He's a likeable guy and does offer more going forwards but please stop jumping on the 'he's good enough for the top 6' bandwagon. That line of thinking is pretty damning on on the Pizza Boys though, isn't it? We had a defender who had 4 years left on his deal, presumably on significantly reduced money after relegation and with the previous manager not really trusting to play him at full-back. And the decision-makers decided to give him a new 5-yr deal with his wages bumped back up in early July. Presumably the thinking must have been that he was so good that he'd be agitating to go if we didn't do this, and that Rowett would soon realise he was a big asset and would be happy with him as our starting right-back for the foreseeable future? To be fair to Rowett, he hadn't really had time to evaluate him at all when the decision was made, and we certainly hadn't played any pre-season friendlies - but the language used on the day of the announcement certainly looks interesting now... www.stokecityfc.com/news/bauer-deal-another-huge-statement-rowett“We wanted as many of the players who we felt could make a massive difference to buy in to what we are doing and commit to the Club.
“First and foremost it’s a statement of intent from the Club that we want to be strong and possibly stronger than last season and secondly it’s confirmation that players can see that we’re planning for a real push. Its fantastic news and I’m looking forward to working with another top player.”
Rowett added: “I’ve watched quite a lot of the games from last season and Moritz was one of the ones who stood out just because of his energy, quality and I thought his attitude was fantastic.
“Obviously his versatility is also an added bonus, although I predominately see him as an attacking right-back.
“Since I’ve started working with him I’ve been really impressed with his attitude. He wants to work, he wants to stay behind after training and do extra because he’s so diligent and professional and I think it’s another good news story for the Club.”
Did he not also point to Bauer's good attitude in his radio interview?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2018 13:58:39 GMT
And the fact that, you know, he hasn't been very good. Join the queue - several others have been poor, but he has been singled out for special treatment: why? Because, as I said, Rowett doesn't fancy him. He's TP junior, and he doesn't want a gallivanting right back.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 5, 2018 14:24:41 GMT
I fully understand that transfers aren’t as straightforward as we would all hope. However money talks in all walks of life and a billion £ owner can flex their financial muscle if there is a “desire” to Where's the cut-off though? Should we pay whatever daft transfer fee they wanted to make it happen? £30m? £40m? What kind of club our size at this level operates that way? I understand your point and anger that it has some relevance. However in my earlier I said “Aquisition = Intent” Don’t forget properly targeted, time relevant (including due diligence) recruitment provides a much greater chance of success not failure. Success purely from a business point of view means the clubs nose firmly entrenched in the cash trough known as the EPL. We go back to the issue of a recruitment process designed, instigated and managed by our current CEO that has by and large been a complete failure and papered over cracks since it’s implementation in December 2012 by the recruitment of a so called agent as Technical Director which is a whole new discussion point. It is a significant factor why we find ourselves in todays predicament By and large we have recruited poorly and mostly on the cheap. You reap what you so!!
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Post by robwahlmann on Sept 5, 2018 14:25:15 GMT
I still believe Bauer is our best option at right back. Was he really any worse than the others in the back four the first couple of games? Yes, I was there and he didn't play well, but he wasn't the only one. You will always need to defend as a team which we didn't at the time. I would say he is better/played better than some players who keep getting picked every match, despite their consistently poor performances. Somethings not right. I feel I haven't got any knowledge to comment on that, but at least Rowett can't have realised Bauer's potential yet. It feels desperately wrong when our only fullback with pace and ability to put in a decent cross isn't picked for the team. I think we at least would have got a point at WBA if the crossing hadn't been so poor from Martina and Pieters.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Sept 5, 2018 14:27:34 GMT
The odd thing is Bauer played a fair few games last season where our defending improved yet now it's as bad as it's ever been again , just the opposition is not as clinical in a lower league. Real mystery why he isn't involved.
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Post by smatty88 on Sept 5, 2018 14:32:47 GMT
The odd thing is Bauer played a fair few games last season where our defending improved yet now it's as bad as it's ever been again , just the opposition is not as clinical in a lower league. Real mystery why he isn't involved. and we've now got a defensive coach which in my mind should see us improve defensively however I thought we looked more secure at the back with Lambo in charge. I really hope they're using the international break to work on the back four considering all but Williams aren't away on international duty.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2018 14:36:12 GMT
Where's the cut-off though? Should we pay whatever daft transfer fee they wanted to make it happen? £30m? £40m? What kind of club our size at this level operates that way? I understand your point and anger that it has some relevance. However in my earlier I said “Aquisition = Intent” Don’t forget properly targeted, time relevant (including due diligence) recruitment provides a much greater chance of success not failure. Success purely from a business point of view means the clubs nose firmly entrenched in the cash trough known as the EPL. We go back to the issue of a recruitment process designed, instigated and managed by our current CEO that has by and large been a complete failure and papered over cracks since it’s implementation in December 2012 by the recruitment of a so called agent as Technical Director which is a whole new discussion point. It is a significant factor why we find ourselves in todays predicament By and large we have recruited poorly and mostly on the cheap. You reap what you so!! I completely agree that recruitment has been disastrous (and had really started to fall off a cliff about 18 months prior to Dec 2012, hence the new structure(. I don't know if doing your business earlier makes as much difference as some say - we had plenty of decent Prem seasons despite doing the bulk of our business on deadline day. However, once again, the vast majority of our signings in that time have been driven by the manager. The transfer team succeeds as one or fails as one but by and large the manager's top targets are the ones we pursue.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 5, 2018 15:01:16 GMT
I understand your point and anger that it has some relevance. However in my earlier I said “Aquisition = Intent” Don’t forget properly targeted, time relevant (including due diligence) recruitment provides a much greater chance of success not failure. Success purely from a business point of view means the clubs nose firmly entrenched in the cash trough known as the EPL. We go back to the issue of a recruitment process designed, instigated and managed by our current CEO that has by and large been a complete failure and papered over cracks since it’s implementation in December 2012 by the recruitment of a so called agent as Technical Director which is a whole new discussion point. It is a significant factor why we find ourselves in todays predicament By and large we have recruited poorly and mostly on the cheap. You reap what you so!! I completely agree that recruitment has been disastrous (and had really started to fall off a cliff about 18 months prior to Dec 2012, hence the new structure(. I don't know if doing your business earlier makes as much difference as some say - we had plenty of decent Prem seasons despite doing the bulk of our business on deadline day. However, once again, the vast majority of our signings in that time have been driven by the manager. The transfer team succeeds as one or fails as one but by and large the manager's top targets are the ones we pursue. Bauer, Staffy, N’dyai (if spelt correctly)........Did we have a manager when we signed these threee? somebody made the decision to sign them Replace Arnie with Choppo????
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2018 15:11:00 GMT
I completely agree that recruitment has been disastrous (and had really started to fall off a cliff about 18 months prior to Dec 2012, hence the new structure(. I don't know if doing your business earlier makes as much difference as some say - we had plenty of decent Prem seasons despite doing the bulk of our business on deadline day. However, once again, the vast majority of our signings in that time have been driven by the manager. The transfer team succeeds as one or fails as one but by and large the manager's top targets are the ones we pursue. Bauer, Staffy, N’dyai (if spelt correctly)........Did we have a manager when we signed these threee? somebody made the decision to sign them Replace Arnie with Choppo???? Bauer and Ndiaye, certainly, were deals started during the Hughes era (Bauer was a Hughes/Bowen find). Given the cock up of the managerial change we made, we had to press head with the deals or risk signing nobody that window. Choupo Moting was a Hughes signing wasn't he? Another of his Bundesliga buys (like Diouf, Arnie, etc) who we'd been linked with about six months to a year before he actually signed.
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Post by Davef on Sept 5, 2018 15:18:24 GMT
Bauer, Staffy, N’dyai (if spelt correctly)........Did we have a manager when we signed these threee? somebody made the decision to sign them Replace Arnie with Choppo???? Bauer and Ndiaye, certainly, were deals started during the Hughes era (Bauer was a Hughes/Bowen find). Given the cock up of the managerial change we made, we had to press head with the deals or risk signing nobody that window. Choupo Moting was a Hughes signing wasn't he? Another of his Bundesliga buys (like Diouf, Arnie, etc) who we'd been linked with about six months to a year before he actually signed. Didn't Hughes say he tried to sign Choupo Moting instead of Arnie when he first came? That signing has his fingerprints all over it.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2018 15:33:20 GMT
Bauer and Ndiaye, certainly, were deals started during the Hughes era (Bauer was a Hughes/Bowen find). Given the cock up of the managerial change we made, we had to press head with the deals or risk signing nobody that window. Choupo Moting was a Hughes signing wasn't he? Another of his Bundesliga buys (like Diouf, Arnie, etc) who we'd been linked with about six months to a year before he actually signed. Didn't Hughes say he tried to sign Choupo Moting instead of Arnie when he first came? That signing has his fingerprints all over it. He was certainly known as a long time fan of the player Dave and he's had contacts in Germany since signing Chris Samba for Blackburn.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 5, 2018 15:44:30 GMT
Join the queue - several others have been poor, but he has been singled out for special treatment: why? Because, as I said, Rowett doesn't fancy him. He's TP junior, and he doesn't want a gallivanting right back. From his gushing praise maybe Rowett did, more than fancy him, and Moritz didn't feel the same. There's no love so cruel as unrequited love!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 15:45:51 GMT
Because, as I said, Rowett doesn't fancy him. He's TP junior, and he doesn't want a gallivanting right back. From his gushing praise maybe Rowett did, more than fancy him, and Moritz didn't feel the same. There's no love so cruel as unrequited love! Oh dear, am I sensing someone else with a bit of acid dripping from the nipple?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 16:35:51 GMT
The odd thing is Bauer played a fair few games last season where our defending improved yet now it's as bad as it's ever been again , just the opposition is not as clinical in a lower league. Real mystery why he isn't involved. Maybe, just maybe, you can put the improvement down to Lambert and his coaches, and not to the individual player. And the return to bad form could be down to the new coaches perhaps issuing ordeers which may or may not be fully understood by the players, not because those coaches are bad, they're just assuming implicit understanding, which just isn't there because Ryan, Bruno, and Erik over the length of time are used to different ways of doing the basics. Maybe I'm wrong, I really have no idea what goes on in training. I watched Bauer last season as well, and even then I thought he struggled defensively, especially positionwise, where his lack of understanding where to be and how to place himself cost us goals, because the other three defenders were playing offside. Other times he stopped and put his hand up, Tony Adams-style,flagging for offsides which simply weren't there. By the time he found out it was of course too late So nothing mysterious about this, I'm afraid. I'd like to see Bauer in the team. He has a lot to offer. But either he will have to improve on the defensive part of his game or be played further upfield in a midfield role. Both probably require some coaching, but he's a young man and it can be done.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 17:16:31 GMT
Listening to GR on P&G...something doesn't sit right. Bauer suggesting one thing, Rowett point blank saying "no issue".
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 5, 2018 17:16:39 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 17:19:26 GMT
James Maclean has been our most dangerous threat, apparently.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 5, 2018 17:31:11 GMT
"I've seen a lot of speculation about that situation. He's actually been very professional and offered to play in those games, and offered to play on Tuesday as well which I think shows a level of dedication. And that's the honest and truthful answer.
"I've had no real rift with Moritz. I felt in the first 2-3 games, he needed to defend better individually. That's why he was taken out of the team, but I know he's a good player and I know he can offer us a lot going forward"
"So I've been as surprised as anyone really to see this furore surrounding that situation"
"It's very easy to put social media posts out that can be construed in different ways, my preference would be that the player comes to see the manager and asks ' how can I get back into the team?'
But to be fair to Moritz, his actions in asking to play in these games, suggests he wants to do something about it"
"It's been my decision not to play him but he's still been on the bench and featured in some games and he's part of what we're doing"
"I'm hoping he can go there and show what he's done previously and show that fight to get back into the team"
"Nowadays with social media, you have to be careful about what you put out there, because people construe it as if something has happened. If you sit down and ask him if he's had a big bust-up with me, I'd suggest he'd say no. I've chosen not to ply him and he's not going to be happy about that"
"It was his choice to play in those games and it was my choice to let him fel he could gain that fitness there"
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Post by Dave the Rave on Sept 5, 2018 17:40:14 GMT
"I've seen a lot of speculation about that situation. He's actually been very professional and offered to play in those games, and offered to play on Tuesday as well which I think shows a level of dedication. And that's the honest and truthful answer. "I've had no real rift with Moritz. I felt in the first 2-3 games, he needed to defend better individually. That's why he was taken out of the team, but I know he's a good player and I know he can offer us a lot going forward" "So I've been as surprised as anyone really to see this furore surrounding that situation" "It's very easy to put social media posts out that can be construed in different ways, my preference would be that the player comes to see the manager and asks ' how can I get back into the team?' But to be fair to Moritz, his actions in asking to play in these games, suggests he wants to do something about it" "It's been my decision not to play him but he's still been on the bench and featured in some games and he's part of what we're doing" "I'm hoping he can go there and show what he's done previously and show that fight to get back into the team" "Nowadays with social media, you have to be careful about what you put out there, because people construe it as if something has happened. If you sit down and ask him if he's had a big bust-up with me, I'd suggest he'd say no. I've chosen not to ply him and he's not going to be happy about that" "It was his choice to play in those games and it was my choice to let him fel he could gain that fitness there" No 'real' rift?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 17:45:28 GMT
"I've seen a lot of speculation about that situation. He's actually been very professional and offered to play in those games, and offered to play on Tuesday as well which I think shows a level of dedication. And that's the honest and truthful answer. "I've had no real rift with Moritz. I felt in the first 2-3 games, he needed to defend better individually. That's why he was taken out of the team, but I know he's a good player and I know he can offer us a lot going forward" "So I've been as surprised as anyone really to see this furore surrounding that situation" "It's very easy to put social media posts out that can be construed in different ways, my preference would be that the player comes to see the manager and asks ' how can I get back into the team?' But to be fair to Moritz, his actions in asking to play in these games, suggests he wants to do something about it" "It's been my decision not to play him but he's still been on the bench and featured in some games and he's part of what we're doing" "I'm hoping he can go there and show what he's done previously and show that fight to get back into the team" "Nowadays with social media, you have to be careful about what you put out there, because people construe it as if something has happened. If you sit down and ask him if he's had a big bust-up with me, I'd suggest he'd say no. I've chosen not to ply him and he's not going to be happy about that" "It was his choice to play in those games and it was my choice to let him fel he could gain that fitness there" "My preference would be that the player comes to see the manager and asks ' how can I get back into the team?" so Mortiz Bauer has apparently been dropped without being told why or what he needs to do to get back in the team and just randomly posted an angry post on instagram (but somehow along the way has asked to play in the U23s)....yeah whatever Gaz!
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 5, 2018 17:54:10 GMT
As for Bauer, no one at the club comes out of that one looking good. He is suffering due to what looks to be a fall out between Teflon Tony and Poundland Pulis and it stinks. Poundland Pulis. Excellent work.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2018 17:54:49 GMT
Join the queue - several others have been poor, but he has been singled out for special treatment: why? Because, as I said, Rowett doesn't fancy him. He's TP junior, and he doesn't want a gallivanting right back. Which also suggests that he could do a job as a right winger with superb defending abilities....even more reason to play him 😁
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Post by owdestokie2 on Sept 5, 2018 18:31:35 GMT
Join the queue - several others have been poor, but he has been singled out for special treatment: why? Because, as I said, Rowett doesn't fancy him. He's TP junior, and he doesn't want a gallivanting right back. A gallivanting fullback is fine as long as it doesn’t adversely affect the ethos of team balance based upon the players you have at your disposal. I’m simply a supporter watching from the stand and if a player is adversely affecting that balance you have to remove that individual or change the shape of the team etc. to accommodate the strengths of that indivividual. It’s not rocket science. There’s no argument that with Bauer at fullback his marouding style leaves massive gaps defensively and puts added pressure on the centre halves to move out to unnatural waters rather than being in a central defensive position. PS. The above is in no way being critical of Bauer as an individual footballer. Perhaps if he had a similar player to SJW in front of him things may be different
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 5, 2018 18:52:08 GMT
Because, as I said, Rowett doesn't fancy him. He's TP junior, and he doesn't want a gallivanting right back. A gallivanting fullback is fine as long as it doesn’t adversely affect the ethos of team balance based upon the players you have at your disposal. I’m simply a supporter watching from the stand and if a player is adversely affecting that balance you have to remove that individual or change the shape of the team etc. to accommodate the strengths of that indivividual. It’s not rocket science. There’s no argument that with Bauer at fullback his marouding style leaves massive gaps defensively and puts added pressure on the centre halves to move out to unnatural waters rather than being in a central defensive position. PS. The above is in no way being critical of Bauer as an individual footballer. Perhaps if he had a similar player to SJW in front of him things may be different I don't think he can have many complaints about not being in the team. He was rotten against Leeds and Brentford and constantly out of position. He wasn't even getting caught up the field, he just seemed to have no idea where he was supposed to be. That said, I think he's the best in that position at the club and it would be nice if we could work with him to improve his positioning, because if he can add that while keeping his attacking edge he'll surely be the best right back in the league.
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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 5, 2018 18:58:51 GMT
A gallivanting fullback is fine as long as it doesn’t adversely affect the ethos of team balance based upon the players you have at your disposal. I’m simply a supporter watching from the stand and if a player is adversely affecting that balance you have to remove that individual or change the shape of the team etc. to accommodate the strengths of that indivividual. It’s not rocket science. There’s no argument that with Bauer at fullback his marouding style leaves massive gaps defensively and puts added pressure on the centre halves to move out to unnatural waters rather than being in a central defensive position. PS. The above is in no way being critical of Bauer as an individual footballer. Perhaps if he had a similar player to SJW in front of him things may be different I don't think he can have many complaints about not being in the team. He was rotten against Leeds and Brentford and constantly out of position. He wasn't even getting caught up the field, he just seemed to have no idea where he was supposed to be. That said, I think he's the best in that position at the club and it would be nice if we could work with him to improve his positioning, because if he can add that while keeping his attacking edge he'll surely be the best right back in the league. Must admit, these quotes that tony1234 posted last night are pretty revealing. So that's his coach in Russia, Lambo and Rowett who all seem to think he had a few issues defensively - and he's 26 with 200 games under his belt? russianfootballnews.com/an-interview-with-kurban-berdyev-part-two-moritz-bauer-is-very-professional-but-hes-got-huge-shortcomings/Looking from the outside, Moritz Bauer looks like the most professional player. Is that true? (The interview was conducted a few days before several players mentioned below left the club.) Yes, he’s very professional. But football-wise, he’s got some huge shortcomings.
There was a time when I finally lost my patience with him.
I asked him, before everyone’s eyes:
“Moritz, the ball is here, here’s the situation, where should you be?” “Here.” “Are you sure?” “I am sure.”
Then I play the video, and he’s standing in a totally different place, and we get a goal from his zone.
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Post by rawli on Sept 5, 2018 19:10:26 GMT
James Maclean has been our most dangerous threat, apparently. The worrying thing is that's not far off.
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