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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 31, 2018 11:48:22 GMT
There was a moment on Saturday, when (out of position, might I add) he burst down the left, took two men on and bust a fucking gut to keep it in play as it looked like it was going out for a goal kick. With a superb gentle touch with the outside of his right boot, he knocked it down exactly where he wanted it, controlled it again whilst outpacing his man, played a great pass and sprinted on anticipating a one-two which wasn't returned.
1. I can't remember the last time I saw that much drive from a Stoke player to recover a seemingly lost cause.
2. The effort he put in just at that one moment epitomised the bollocks that this squad lacked last season and craves this season.
3. The skill in keeping the ball in play whilst also leaving his defender for dead was excellent, if, say again, Saido had done that, he'd be getting fellated for it on here.
4. The vision to look for the one-two that would have played him in was telling of him still being probably the most intelligent attacker we have.
Now that was just one moment, I get that. But there have been tons of times in his cameos where he's had the ball at his feet, put together a little dribble, been positive in taking play forward and looked like he was starting to get a bit of a grip on the game. That should be enough to tell anyone that if you give him time, if you give him the chance of a few games in a row, he should find his feet again.
He's not lost his skill, he's not lost his pace. With confidence, he will.start providing goals and assists. We know that both of those parts of his game are intuitive to him and that it's confidence that's the issue. I've probably read about 50 times on here that "his head's shot". What, you mean permanently? Bollocks, treat him with a bit of respect.
If it's a choice between him and Saido in the number 10 role, I know for damn sure which one I'd stick with through a "rehabilitation" process. It's the one who has shown his ability for Stoke on two runs of games, seems like a role model, still has bags of potential, likes and respects the club and its fans and has a great attitude towards his own fitness, the game in general and appreciates his privileged position as a professional footballer.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 11:49:08 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 31, 2018 11:49:08 GMT
He wouldn't be guaranteed a game though would he? And I still think he'd find it hard to turn down Champions League football in his dad's homeland. All this - 'the whole team was rubbish then' stuff - you still have players that stand out in a bad team and he just wasn't one of them. He never played a run of games after that West Brom game though! That is the point me and others have made. How many constitutes 'a run' out of interest? And shouldn't a good player be able to take his opportunities when he has the chance, rather than needing six games to warm up? Even Berahino has looked promising for the first time in his Stoke career off the back of just three starts this season...
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 11:59:25 GMT
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 31, 2018 11:59:25 GMT
He never played a run of games after that West Brom game though! That is the point me and others have made. How many constitutes 'a run' out of interest? And shouldn't a good player be able to take his opportunities when he has the chance, rather than needing six games to warm up? Even Berahino has looked promising for the first time in his Stoke career off the back of just three starts this season... I'd call a "run" 5-10 starts of at least 70 minutes. Although it's a fairly arbitrary set of parameters, I don't think it's unreasonable. What do you mean by "taking his chances"? Bojan's looked just as good as Berahino in the games so far, with less time on the pitch and even fewer starts (with the added bonus of having proven in the past that he's capable of doing it in a Stoke shirt).
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Post by 1982stokie on Aug 31, 2018 11:59:51 GMT
He never played a run of games after that West Brom game though! That is the point me and others have made. How many constitutes 'a run' out of interest? And shouldn't a good player be able to take his opportunities when he has the chance, rather than needing six games to warm up? Even Berahino has looked promising for the first time in his Stoke career off the back of just three starts this season... Bojan hasn't been given 3 starts in a row though, he is the least of our problems when we have shit like Fletcher, Adam still here.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 12:01:45 GMT
He never played a run of games after that West Brom game though! That is the point me and others have made. How many constitutes 'a run' out of interest? And shouldn't a good player be able to take his opportunities when he has the chance, rather than needing six games to warm up? Even Berahino has looked promising for the first time in his Stoke career off the back of just three starts this season... I feel like you are arguing with me for the sake of it now and I'm not sure why as you said you'd like to keep him also. Look back through the conversation, I said I wasn't 100% sure but since that West Brom game off the back of our excellent Christmas period (Jan 2016) I don't think he has started more than 2 games for Stoke - which I would constitute a run. Coincidentally, your point about Berahino backs up mine. He has had a 'run' of 3 starts and what do you know? Even the most mocked player in recent times looks like he could come good. Your point also makes no sense - Bojan has started one game against Brentford, subbed and then dropped when he was our best player, so the comparison is a bit strange.
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Post by ladyinred on Aug 31, 2018 12:02:11 GMT
He never played a run of games after that West Brom game though! That is the point me and others have made. How many constitutes 'a run' out of interest? And shouldn't a good player be able to take his opportunities when he has the chance, rather than needing six games to warm up? Even Berahino has looked promising for the first time in his Stoke career off the back of just three starts this season......and wouldn't it be interesting to see if Bojan could look promising if he had been given JUST three starts this season? Interesting stat - not conceded a goal so far this season with Bojan on the pitch
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:05:03 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 31, 2018 12:05:03 GMT
How many constitutes 'a run' out of interest? And shouldn't a good player be able to take his opportunities when he has the chance, rather than needing six games to warm up? Even Berahino has looked promising for the first time in his Stoke career off the back of just three starts this season... I'd call a "run" 5-10 starts of at least 70 minutes. Although it's a fairly arbitrary set of parameters, I don't think it's unreasonable. What do you mean by "taking his chances"? Bojan's looked just as good as Berahino in the games so far, with less time on the pitch and even fewer starts (with the added bonus of having proven in the past that he's capable of doing it in a Stoke shirt). I've said I'd play him this season. I think he's looked good. The chances I was referring to were the games against the likes of Middlesbrough, Palace, Bournemouth, Wolves when he was played in his best position and did nothing. He didn't exactly give the manager a selection headache in any of those games.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:05:36 GMT
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 31, 2018 12:05:36 GMT
How many constitutes 'a run' out of interest? And shouldn't a good player be able to take his opportunities when he has the chance, rather than needing six games to warm up? Even Berahino has looked promising for the first time in his Stoke career off the back of just three starts this season......and wouldn't it be interesting to see if Bojan could look promising if he had been given JUST three starts this season? Interesting stat - not conceded a goal so far this season with Bojan on the pitch I'm fine with Bojan starting this season. I'm in favour of it. As I've said.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 31, 2018 12:07:10 GMT
How many constitutes 'a run' out of interest? And shouldn't a good player be able to take his opportunities when he has the chance, rather than needing six games to warm up? Even Berahino has looked promising for the first time in his Stoke career off the back of just three starts this season... I feel like you are arguing with me for the sake of it now and I'm not sure why as you said you'd like to keep him also. Look back through the conversation, I said I wasn't 100% sure but since that West Brom game off the back of our excellent Christmas period (Jan 2016) I don't think he has started more than 2 games for Stoke - which I would constitute a run. Coincidentally, your point about Berahino backs up mine. He has had a 'run' of 3 starts and what do you know? Even the most mocked player in recent times looks like he could come good. Your point also makes no sense - Bojan has started one game against Brentford, subbed and then dropped when he was our best player, so the comparison is a bit strange. Bojan has started more than two games since Jan 2016. That's my point. I'm fine with him starting this season, I don't buy the people's princess stuff that he's the victim of a dreadful, multi-manager conspiracy since then spanning three different countries.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 31, 2018 12:11:10 GMT
Ultimately, I find it hard to believe that Saido Berahino, who, up until a few weeks ago, was widely regarded as one of the shittest signings we've ever made, who was a thick, fat, druggie, love-rat waster, who didn't give a shit about the club, the fans, football, himself, is now being applauded after running around for a bit and scoring a jammy goal, whilst people are deriding Bojan and saying he's a lost cause, based on him not regaining form that was frankly too good for SCFC, whilst also being denied the opportunities that would enable him to potentially replicate that form.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:11:15 GMT
Post by biglad180 on Aug 31, 2018 12:11:15 GMT
we are already short in terms of game changers. sad if he goes.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:12:58 GMT
Post by thebet365 on Aug 31, 2018 12:12:58 GMT
How many constitutes 'a run' out of interest? And shouldn't a good player be able to take his opportunities when he has the chance, rather than needing six games to warm up? Even Berahino has looked promising for the first time in his Stoke career off the back of just three starts this season......and wouldn't it be interesting to see if Bojan could look promising if he had been given JUST three starts this season? Interesting stat - not conceded a goal so far this season with Bojan on the pitch Interesting Stat he was on the Pitch when Wigan scored their 3rd.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:20:11 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 12:20:11 GMT
Ultimately, I find it hard to believe that Saido Berahino, who, up until a few weeks ago, was widely regarded as one of the shittest signings we've ever made, who was a thick, fat, druggie, love-rat waster, who didn't give a shit about the club, the fans, football, himself, is now being applauded after running around for a bit and scoring a jammy goal, whilst people are deriding Bojan and saying he's a lost cause, based on him not regaining form that was frankly too good for SCFC, whilst also being denied the opportunities that would enable him to potentially replicate that form. Exactly. Well said. And does anyone genuinely believe that if Saido does suddenly become our super star he won’t sod off the minute a “bigger” club come in for him...
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:23:09 GMT
Post by mickmillslovechild on Aug 31, 2018 12:23:09 GMT
Ultimately, I find it hard to believe that Saido Berahino, who, up until a few weeks ago, was widely regarded as one of the shittest signings we've ever made, who was a thick, fat, druggie, love-rat waster, who didn't give a shit about the club, the fans, football, himself, is now being applauded after running around for a bit and scoring a jammy goal, whilst people are deriding Bojan and saying he's a lost cause, based on him not regaining form that was frankly too good for SCFC, whilst also being denied the opportunities that would enable him to potentially replicate that form.
He's had those opportunities at other clubs over the last 2 years. They didn't think much of him either..coincidence?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 31, 2018 12:24:12 GMT
Ultimately, I find it hard to believe that Saido Berahino, who, up until a few weeks ago, was widely regarded as one of the shittest signings we've ever made, who was a thick, fat, druggie, love-rat waster, who didn't give a shit about the club, the fans, football, himself, is now being applauded after running around for a bit and scoring a jammy goal, whilst people are deriding Bojan and saying he's a lost cause, based on him not regaining form that was frankly too good for SCFC, whilst also being denied the opportunities that would enable him to potentially replicate that form. Exactly. Well said. And does anyone genuinely believe that if Saido does suddenly become our super star he won’t sod off the minute a “bigger” club come in for him... You'll struggle to find a player on the books who won't.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:24:39 GMT
Post by mickmillslovechild on Aug 31, 2018 12:24:39 GMT
Ultimately, I find it hard to believe that Saido Berahino, who, up until a few weeks ago, was widely regarded as one of the shittest signings we've ever made, who was a thick, fat, druggie, love-rat waster, who didn't give a shit about the club, the fans, football, himself, is now being applauded after running around for a bit and scoring a jammy goal, whilst people are deriding Bojan and saying he's a lost cause, based on him not regaining form that was frankly too good for SCFC, whilst also being denied the opportunities that would enable him to potentially replicate that form. Exactly. Well said. And does anyone genuinely believe that if Saido does suddenly become our super star he won’t sod off the minute a “bigger” club come in for him...
Out of interest, what does that have to do with anything re: Bojan negotiating with Red Star?
It's what pretty much any player would do, even Stoke stalwarts like Ryan would be gone if a big club came in for him but it has sod all whatsoever to do with this thread does it?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Aug 31, 2018 12:26:33 GMT
Ultimately, I find it hard to believe that Saido Berahino, who, up until a few weeks ago, was widely regarded as one of the shittest signings we've ever made, who was a thick, fat, druggie, love-rat waster, who didn't give a shit about the club, the fans, football, himself, is now being applauded after running around for a bit and scoring a jammy goal, whilst people are deriding Bojan and saying he's a lost cause, based on him not regaining form that was frankly too good for SCFC, whilst also being denied the opportunities that would enable him to potentially replicate that form. Berahino deserves credit for his recent performances just as he deserved stick for being a waster for so long. I don't think anyone's said Bojan's a lost cause, just that the people's princess stuff doesn't really tally with the story of his career over the last few years. To do that you've got to make excuses or make out like literally every time he hasn't done much over the last few years as being someone else's fault.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 31, 2018 12:27:55 GMT
There is no good reason for letting him go.
We need that option of him.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 31, 2018 12:31:31 GMT
Ultimately, I find it hard to believe that Saido Berahino, who, up until a few weeks ago, was widely regarded as one of the shittest signings we've ever made, who was a thick, fat, druggie, love-rat waster, who didn't give a shit about the club, the fans, football, himself, is now being applauded after running around for a bit and scoring a jammy goal, whilst people are deriding Bojan and saying he's a lost cause, based on him not regaining form that was frankly too good for SCFC, whilst also being denied the opportunities that would enable him to potentially replicate that form. He's had those opportunities at other clubs over the last 2 years. They didn't think much of him either..coincidence?
I couldn't give a crack-smoking-camel-fuck about other clubs, it's a non argument. What had Stein, Sheron, Fuller done before us? Plenty thought Palacios, Woodgate, Owen, Gudjohnsen, Berger would be ace here.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:32:55 GMT
via mobile
Post by wherty on Aug 31, 2018 12:32:55 GMT
There was a moment on Saturday, when (out of position, might I add) he burst down the left, took two men on and bust a fucking gut to keep it in play as it looked like it was going out for a goal kick. With a superb gentle touch with the outside of his right boot, he knocked it down exactly where he wanted it, controlled it again whilst outpacing his man, played a great pass and sprinted on anticipating a one-two which wasn't returned. 1. I can't remember the last time I saw that much drive from a Stoke player to recover a seemingly lost cause. 2. The effort he put in just at that one moment epitomised the bollocks that this squad lacked last season and craves this season. 3. The skill in keeping the ball in play whilst also leaving his defender for dead was excellent, if, say again, Saido had done that, he'd be getting fellated for it on here. 4. The vision to look for the one-two that would have played him in was telling of him still being probably the most intelligent attacker we have. Now that was just one moment, I get that. But there have been tons of times in his cameos where he's had the ball at his feet, put together a little dribble, been positive in taking play forward and looked like he was starting to get a bit of a grip on the game. That should be enough to tell anyone that if you give him time, if you give him the chance of a few games in a row, he should find his feet again. He's not lost his skill, he's not lost his pace. With confidence, he will.start providing goals and assists. We know that both of those parts of his game are intuitive to him and that it's confidence that's the issue. I've probably read about 50 times on here that "his head's shot". What, you mean permanently? Bollocks, treat him with a bit of respect. If it's a choice between him and Saido in the number 10 role, I know for damn sure which one I'd stick with through a "rehabilitation" process. It's the one who has shown his ability for Stoke on two runs of games, seems like a role model, still has bags of potential, likes and respects the club and its fans and has a great attitude towards his own fitness, the game in general and appreciates his privileged position as a professional footballer. Perhaps he busted a gut because he wanted a move and people were watching. What has he done in the last 2 years plus? Been out in loan twice and come back as the team didn't want him as he struggled to hold down a first team place. Good move for both parties.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:35:04 GMT
Post by mickmillslovechild on Aug 31, 2018 12:35:04 GMT
He's had those opportunities at other clubs over the last 2 years. They didn't think much of him either..coincidence?
I couldn't give a crack-smoking-camel-fuck about other clubs, it's a non argument. What had Stein, Sheron, Fuller done before us? Plenty thought Palacios, Woodgate, Owen, Gudjohnsen, Berger would be ace here.
Ok, so if you don't care about what he's done at other clubs (far more recently than anything he's done for us here) then you're basing your outrage on what he did for us a few years back solely and nothing else? On that basis, shall we take a punt on Vince Overson again? Don't care what he's done for the last 20 years as it's not relevant apparently, all i know is that he was good for us once upon a time so that'll do eh!
How can you not care about how well he's done in the far more recent past than when you last saw him on a regular basis? What do you think most loans are for? They're because the manager wnts to send them to a club to basically get them back up to speed and see if they can re-capture what they once had. They tried that at 2 different clubs with Bojan and neither club thought he was good enough for them either.
Hmmm it's a tricky one this...who's opinion should we go by, at least 3 managers who saw him train every day and didn't deem him good enough to be part of their setups in the last 2 years or some bloke on the Oatcake who hasn't seen anything of him regularly for 2 years plus?
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:37:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by Bojan Mackey on Aug 31, 2018 12:37:59 GMT
It’s quite funny how the ones happy to see the back of Bojan are probably the same ones who dined out on Jon Walters’ 6 month purple patch of form in 2010 and kept asking that he be reinstated to the team.
He’s by far and away the best player in this team, to let him go is fucking suicidal.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:39:36 GMT
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 31, 2018 12:39:36 GMT
. What has he done in the last 2 years plus? Been out in loan twice and come back as the team didn't want him as he struggled to hold down a first team place. Good move for both parties. As discussed: Okay game Good game Dropped Okay game Good game Dropped Confidence destroyed Loaned Unable to break into first team Ignored Confidence destroyed Loaned Unable to break into first team Cameo Dropped Start Early sub Dropped Fans and managers seem to want him to be Barcelona Superstar straight away and when he's not, they fuck him off.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:40:18 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 12:40:18 GMT
Rowett’s here to win games, he isn’t here to pander to the whims of some fans whose only experience managing a club comes from playing a computer game. Bojan, like Imbula has the talent, but just has not contributed enough in the last 2 years to warrant keeping him. Goodbye Boj, thanks for the memories of those few weeks when BMX ruled supreme! That's very narrow minded statement. Bojan "just has not contributed enough in the last 2 years", when during most of that period he has been away from the club! And sorry to disappoint you, but we do get to keep him, as he's only being given away on a loan. However at this point there doesn't seem to be any sense for Bojan to stay here. Like Hughes before him, GR has broken the promise he made Bojan in pre season and before the PNE game. He probably never intended to play him anyway. And he'd probably be better off going altogether. We might as well give him a free, that seems to be how we do our business these days, and we won't be able to get a fee for him anyway. He cost us next to nothing and has certainly repaid that sum in his first season. To a lot of us he represented hope, not that he'd return to what he was before his injury, but that he'd be able to continue using that marvellous football brain of his, which to my mind is better than any of GR's 9 new boys put together., not to mention those already here. Ultimatedly it came down to a choice between Berahino in his new role and Bojan. Two very different players but both seemingly courting the 10 in the team. With a goal against Huddersfield's 3rd stringers, Saido won, and Bojan lost. Let's see how long the Berahino euphoria will last and what GR's alternative is if/when Berahino falters.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:41:16 GMT
Post by Pretty Little Boother on Aug 31, 2018 12:41:16 GMT
I couldn't give a crack-smoking-camel-fuck about other clubs, it's a non argument. What had Stein, Sheron, Fuller done before us? Plenty thought Palacios, Woodgate, Owen, Gudjohnsen, Berger would be ace here. Ok, so if you don't care about what he's done at other clubs (far more recently than anything he's done for us here) then you're basing your outrage on what he did for us a few years back solely and nothing else? On that basis, shall we take a punt on Vince Overson again? Don't care what he's done for the last 20 years as it's not relevant apparently, all i know is that he was good for us once upon a time so that'll do eh!
Hmmm it's a tricky one this...who's opinion should we go by, at least 3 managers who saw him train every day and didn't deem him good enough to be part of their setups in the last 2 years or some bloke on the Oatcake who hasn't seen anything of him regularly for 2 years plus?
Ludicrous analogy and you know exactly why.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:42:47 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2018 12:42:47 GMT
Sorry he's going, love him as a player but we need to cut the wage bill. Why? We're not exactly short of money. I had my doubts, but I think it's been established that everyone has a relegation clause in their contracts.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:47:12 GMT
Post by mickmillslovechild on Aug 31, 2018 12:47:12 GMT
. What has he done in the last 2 years plus? Been out in loan twice and come back as the team didn't want him as he struggled to hold down a first team place. Good move for both parties. As discussed: Okay game Good game Dropped Okay game Good game Dropped Confidence destroyed Loaned Unable to break into first team Ignored Confidence destroyed Loaned Unable to break into first team Cameo Dropped Start Early sub Dropped Fans and managers seem to want him to be Barcelona Superstar straight away and when he's not, they fuck him off.
That's bollocks mate, i'm sorry.
I think you'd probably find that most on here would be happy to see him stay and see him given a chance but that isn't our decision is it? If the manager doesn't deem him to fit into his plans as a regular starter (and this makes Rowett at least the 5th in the last 2 years or so to think that as Lambert saw no need to recall him in January), we're simply being realistic about what is the best option for the club and the player, especially if the player wants an opportunity to play for a Champs league club and instead of basing our ideas on days long gone, actually looking at what's happened over the last couple of years.
Genuine question, do you think Hughes, Lambert, Rowett, Schwarz and Fernandez just had it in for him for no apparent reason or do you think they may have based their decisions not to play him regularly on a bit more than that?
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Post by chuffedstokie on Aug 31, 2018 12:47:13 GMT
We need to keep him, we just have to.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:48:08 GMT
via mobile
Post by musik on Aug 31, 2018 12:48:08 GMT
I don't believe in this.
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Bojan
Aug 31, 2018 12:48:32 GMT
Post by mickmillslovechild on Aug 31, 2018 12:48:32 GMT
Ok, so if you don't care about what he's done at other clubs (far more recently than anything he's done for us here) then you're basing your outrage on what he did for us a few years back solely and nothing else? On that basis, shall we take a punt on Vince Overson again? Don't care what he's done for the last 20 years as it's not relevant apparently, all i know is that he was good for us once upon a time so that'll do eh!
Hmmm it's a tricky one this...who's opinion should we go by, at least 3 managers who saw him train every day and didn't deem him good enough to be part of their setups in the last 2 years or some bloke on the Oatcake who hasn't seen anything of him regularly for 2 years plus?
Ludicrous analogy and you know exactly why.
Excellent! Pick one sentence out of the post and ignore the rest because you have no answer
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