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Post by rorystowel on Aug 11, 2018 20:22:34 GMT
I agree with GR’s damning verdict on the performance, but how about shouldering some of the blame too Gary? Taking Bojan off was a weird decision, and Etebo was piss poor when he came off the bench. How come we pinged the ball into the box at the end of the first half when we had no height up front, then gave Crouch no service at all when he came on? I could go on, but it’s too depressing going back over it. We were lucky to come away with a point.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 20:23:14 GMT
This is a manager who thinks McLean is better than choupo. Choupo is on £70,000 A week If we're paying McClean 70p a week it's 70p too much.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 11, 2018 20:31:34 GMT
It's often said a manager has lost the dressing room. But is it possible the manager hasn't won over the dressing room? A clique of existing players, ex Prem, who don't buy into a Championship level managers plans? Especially if they've been used to a 'holiday camp' atmosphere and the new guy is more 'sergeant major'. Yes they realise they have dropped a division but they still know best and won't back him on the pitch.
Just a thought.
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Post by robstokie on Aug 11, 2018 20:37:09 GMT
Give the guy a bloody break - he will come good in time, providing key players (such as Ryan and little Joe) stand up and be counted and dead wood/ bad eggs are dealt with by those behind the scenes.
A few observations:
Midfield - for 4 windows, we have been crying out for real reinforcements through the centre of the park - in particular, with relegation, the addition of a no-nonsense holding mid who will bust a gut to break things up in front of the centre-halves. Yet again, we have neglected to add that kind of player to our squad, and the buck for that has to lie with Scholes/Cartwright as it's them who deal with recruitment.
Complacency both on and off the pitch - despite the money spent and the promises made by Coates and co re. End of season statement nothing has changed. Pretty much all of the dead wood has been kept on when we should have bust a gut with these players/their agents/other clubs to get these players out of the building, whether that be temporary or permanently. I understand that it's not exactly easy to flog a dead horse, but carrying on including some of these in and around the first team. On top of that, these players are symptomatic of the losing mentality we seem to have at the moment.
This doesn't just apply to the playing squad - why Scholes and (particularly) Cartwright remain in place is baffling. In a dog eat dog such as football, results are everything, and the results show they have failed in their duties. Sticking to your process resolutely (as PC seems to be doing) can be seen as admirable, as can his 'loyalty' to this pair of clowns. But you don't win prizes with loyalty, particularly loyalty to a failing way of working.
What was really needed this summer was a comprehensive root and branch re-build/re-structure of all parts of the club - to both address the shortcomings of the previous couple of seasons as well as preparing to compete effectively going forward. I appreciate that Rome wasn't built in a day, but it seems that 'those upstairs' have their heads in the sand as to the problems and shortcomings that have infested within our club , particularly over the last 18 months.
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Post by maliciousdamage on Aug 11, 2018 20:42:21 GMT
I thought his post match assessment was accurate apart from his underestimation of Bojan's contribution which I guess was so that he didn't have to admit what a daft mistake he'd made in substituting him - brining off the one bit of class whilst leaving Fletcher on who's legs had gone and Allen who was on a yellow and playing very badly. he could have even I bet when Rowett wakes up at 4 am tomorrow instead of thinking "yes this is my opportunity to get in the Premiership" he'll be thinking "Shit this club is going to ruin what reputation I have"...….. I'd agree about substituting Boyan they had three men marking him at one point and he left one of those on his arse but as soon as he came off it let them free up the covering midfielder to advance a bit along with the defenders where as Fletcher was spent at that point and should have gone off instead.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 11, 2018 20:43:29 GMT
It's often said a manager has lost the dressing room. But is it possible the manager hasn't won over the dressing room? A clique of existing players, ex Prem, who don't buy into a Championship level managers plans? Especially if they've been used to a 'holiday camp' atmosphere and the new guy is more 'sergeant major'. Yes they realise they have dropped a division but they still know best and won't back him on the pitch. Just a thought. Heard any rumours along these lines?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Aug 11, 2018 20:47:49 GMT
Good interview. Gary knows what is required and what he wants. Pizza boys do as your told On what evidence does he know what’s required he’s never been promoted and failed at Derby . personally I think he is totally out of his depth , he’d be gone for me by the end of the month but think it will take a bit longer but not much . his team is ill prepared , without a game plan , he said one day no number 10 within a week it’s changed l the bojan sub today pathetic making himself a problem then exasperated with the crouch sub , he’s no idea how to fix the mess , but the ultimate accountability sits with those who recruited him ,and with who. He is clearly already at odds as none of his or the ceos public utterances marry up . it was another compromise , unimaginative appointment when courage was required . eventually the club will be forced to appoint A manager of the level they should have done after Hughes , if they don’t the spiral will accelerate .
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Post by stokeykez on Aug 11, 2018 20:51:30 GMT
Good interview. Gary knows what is required and what he wants. Pizza boys do as your told On what evidence does he know what’s required he’s never been promoted and failed at Derby . personally I think he is totally out of his depth , he’d be gone for me by the end of the month but think it will take a bit longer but not much . his team is ill prepared , without a game plan , he said one day no number 10 within a week it’s changed l the bojan sub today pathetic making himself a problem then exasperated with the crouch sub , he’s no idea how to fix the mess , but the ultimate accountability sits with those who recruited him ,and with who. He is clearly already at odds as none of his or the ceos public utterances marry up . it was another compromise , unimaginative appointment when courage was required . eventually the club will be forced to appoint A manager of the level they should have done after Hughes , if they don’t the spiral will accelerate . I don't think the club will even question replacing Gary benji. Stoke could not possibly show their arse in the window after such a public pursuit of him in January and then landing him in summer, he's here to stay. GR will be in stokes 5 year plan, where we will be will be as a result of the mismanagement of recruitment and club strategy.
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Post by SCFC92 on Aug 11, 2018 20:51:36 GMT
I think this bloke can't win with some of you already!
He has come out, respectfully to his employers, and stated what we all think as fans, whilst giving a public kick up the arse to our transfer team.
Brilliant interview, stated what most of us were talking about walking back from the ground.
If you can't cope, if you don't wake the fuck up Stoke, you are out of the team!
Onwards and upwards. (hopefully)
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Post by GeneralFaye on Aug 11, 2018 20:53:59 GMT
The long and short of it is, we've got a load of shite footballers on hefty contracts who are either happy to sit on their contracts or are so shit no one else wants them. For that, I feel sorry for Rowett because it makes his position very uncomfortable and ultimately nearly impossible to build his own squad.
However, I do think he's made big mistakes in terms of his judgement of the current playing staff. For example, thinking Erik is up to it when he's been awful for a considerable time, there are clearly more examples as well. His list of targets that he gave to the transfer team was also very questionable. No one can tell me McClean is the best winger we could've signed in a whole summer ffs?!
Anyway, I'll back him and hope he can turn it around because I've got a bad feeling this isn't going to end very well.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 11, 2018 20:58:42 GMT
Anyway, I'll back him and hope he can turn it around because I've got a bad feeling this isn't going to end very well. Honest question :Do you think Rowett was the best manager we could have attracted given the fact we're the favourites for promotion, we'd been in the Prem for 10 years and the warchest that was promised ?
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 11, 2018 21:03:19 GMT
Anyway, I'll back him and hope he can turn it around because I've got a bad feeling this isn't going to end very well. Honest question :Do you think Rowett was the best manager we could have signed given the fact we're the favourites for promotion, we'd been in the Prem for 10 years and the warchest that was promised? A lot of us on here have mentioned bielsa many many times in recent years. We could have easily attracted him before leeds.
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 11, 2018 21:06:15 GMT
Anyway, I'll back him and hope he can turn it around because I've got a bad feeling this isn't going to end very well. Honest question :Do you think Rowett was the best manager we could have signed given the fact we're the favourites for promotion, we'd been in the Prem for 10 years and the warchest that was promised? Personally? That's what I'd call a loaded question. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif)
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 11, 2018 21:09:44 GMT
It's often said a manager has lost the dressing room. But is it possible the manager hasn't won over the dressing room? A clique of existing players, ex Prem, who don't buy into a Championship level managers plans? Especially if they've been used to a 'holiday camp' atmosphere and the new guy is more 'sergeant major'. Yes they realise they have dropped a division but they still know best and won't back him on the pitch. Just a thought. Heard any rumours along these lines? Nothing at all. Just musing on why the the 'best team on paper' turns into what we see on the pitch. The comment from GR that big changes are coming seemed a bit like a battle of wills. Whether that exists I have no idea.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 11, 2018 21:10:43 GMT
Honest question :Do you think Rowett was the best manager we could have signed given the fact we're the favourites for promotion, we'd been in the Prem for 10 years and the warchest that was promised? Personally? That's what I'd call a loaded question. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) It's a loaded question but I feel like I'm staring down the barrel of a gun watching Stoke these days.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 21:11:53 GMT
Honest question :Do you think Rowett was the best manager we could have signed given the fact we're the favourites for promotion, we'd been in the Prem for 10 years and the warchest that was promised? A lot of us on here have mentioned bielsa many many times in recent years. We could have easily attracted him before leeds. Bielsa is not British, no chance of Coatsy even thinking about him sadly,
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 11, 2018 21:12:15 GMT
Heard any rumours along these lines? Nothing at all. Just musing on why the the 'best team on paper' turns into what we see on the pitch. The comment from GR that big changes are coming seemed a bit like a battle of wills. Whether that exists I have no idea. You could be right. I can't believe the likes of shawcross are getting worse and worse, overall fitness and organisation is appalling. Something is just not working. These two performances so far are as bad as I've seen for years. I can see Rowett walking.
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Post by neckender78 on Aug 11, 2018 21:13:00 GMT
Baffled today was as bad as anything under Hughes last 2 years and Lambert. Fair enough he said what we all thinking but FFS I don't want hear that it's all perfectly obvious. He's had an entire pre season and bought in 7 players and we look worse than last season shambles. No pace no creativity and absolutely soft as shit. We are a dream for other teams to play against. He knows the division. I know how Brentford play young quick nippy players neat and tidy in possession always wanting to be on the front foot. He combats this with starting Darren Fletcher!!
He got a lot to prove. He makes the decisions and he is the one who can change things. Saying the things we all know won't wash for long.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 11, 2018 21:13:54 GMT
I agree with GR’s damning verdict on the performance, but how about shouldering some of the blame too Gary? Taking Bojan off was a weird decision, and Etebo was piss poor when he came off the bench. How come we pinged the ball into the box at the end of the first half when we had no height up front, then gave Crouch no service at all when he came on? I could go on, but it’s too depressing going back over it. We were lucky to come away with a point. He hasn't got any shoulders and on the evidence so far no brain either.
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Post by iglugluk on Aug 11, 2018 21:14:19 GMT
Personally? That's what I'd call a loaded question. ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/kwfoKwtHI0jglJZ4qZf6.gif) It's a loaded question but I feel like I'm staring down the barrel of a gun watching Stoke these days. unfortunately it seems like the players* share that feeling. * I use that term in the loosest possible way
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 11, 2018 21:18:57 GMT
Nothing at all. Just musing on why the the 'best team on paper' turns into what we see on the pitch. The comment from GR that big changes are coming seemed a bit like a battle of wills. Whether that exists I have no idea. You could be right. I can't believe the likes of shawcross are getting worse and worse, overall fitness and organisation is appalling. Something is just not working. These two performances so far are as bad as I've seen for years. I can see Rowett walking. Agreed. The 'old guard' are saying the right things in 'staying to put things right' but it comes to nothing once the white line is crossed. I'm not saying they should all be running around like headless chickens but busting a gut doesn't seem to be on the cards. As for Rowett I'll admit he leaves me cold. I keep seeing throw backs to Nigel Pearson when he's interviewed.
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Post by nonameface on Aug 11, 2018 21:20:01 GMT
Good interview. Gary knows what is required and what he wants. Pizza boys do as your told On what evidence does he know what’s required he’s never been promoted and failed at Derby . personally I think he is totally out of his depth , he’d be gone for me by the end of the month but think it will take a bit longer but not much . his team is ill prepared , without a game plan , he said one day no number 10 within a week it’s changed l the bojan sub today pathetic making himself a problem then exasperated with the crouch sub , he’s no idea how to fix the mess , but the ultimate accountability sits with those who recruited him ,and with who. He is clearly already at odds as none of his or the ceos public utterances marry up . it was another compromise , unimaginative appointment when courage was required . eventually the club will be forced to appoint A manager of the level they should have done after Hughes , if they don’t the spiral will accelerate . Assumed you've never managed anything before in your life, let alone joining a demoralised underperforming team. Give him time he's exploring the best way of getting this squad to be successful and learnt that Bojan made a difference against Leeds and so should start. Let him keep doing it until we win, much better than the stupidity we had from Lambert and Hughes who expected to keep doing the same thing and get different results.
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Post by GoBoks on Aug 11, 2018 21:20:35 GMT
I would have respect for him if he came out and said I took the job on basis I was told I’d have the tools to build a promotion squad I provided the transfer team with a list of targets and they have failed me and the club but he won’t say that Probably because it's not true.
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Post by crapslinger on Aug 11, 2018 21:22:42 GMT
Give the guy a bloody break - he will come good in time, providing key players (such as Ryan and little Joe) stand up and be counted and dead wood/ bad eggs are dealt with by those behind the scenes. A few observations: Midfield - for 4 windows, we have been crying out for real reinforcements through the centre of the park - in particular, with relegation, the addition of a no-nonsense holding mid who will bust a gut to break things up in front of the centre-halves. Yet again, we have neglected to add that kind of player to our squad, and the buck for that has to lie with Scholes/Cartwright as it's them who deal with recruitment. Complacency both on and off the pitch - despite the money spent and the promises made by Coates and co re. End of season statement nothing has changed. Pretty much all of the dead wood has been kept on when we should have bust a gut with these players/their agents/other clubs to get these players out of the building, whether that be temporary or permanently. I understand that it's not exactly easy to flog a dead horse, but carrying on including some of these in and around the first team. On top of that, these players are symptomatic of the losing mentality we seem to have at the moment. This doesn't just apply to the playing squad - why Scholes and (particularly) Cartwright remain in place is baffling. In a dog eat dog such as football, results are everything, and the results show they have failed in their duties. Sticking to your process resolutely (as PC seems to be doing) can be seen as admirable, as can his 'loyalty' to this pair of clowns. But you don't win prizes with loyalty, particularly loyalty to a failing way of working. What was really needed this summer was a comprehensive root and branch re-build/re-structure of all parts of the club - to both address the shortcomings of the previous couple of seasons as well as preparing to compete effectively going forward. I appreciate that Rome wasn't built in a day, but it seems that 'those upstairs' have their heads in the sand as to the problems and shortcomings that have infested within our club , particularly over the last 18 months. The sound of the penny finally dropping with the biggest happy clapper on this board ![(lol)](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/lvpvZ64EmrkLcuVniUmo.gif) , welcome to the world of reality we are shit and have been for two years some caught on early sometimes it takes the slower ones a while to catch up
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Aug 11, 2018 21:25:05 GMT
On what evidence does he know what’s required he’s never been promoted and failed at Derby . personally I think he is totally out of his depth , he’d be gone for me by the end of the month but think it will take a bit longer but not much . his team is ill prepared , without a game plan , he said one day no number 10 within a week it’s changed l the bojan sub today pathetic making himself a problem then exasperated with the crouch sub , he’s no idea how to fix the mess , but the ultimate accountability sits with those who recruited him ,and with who. He is clearly already at odds as none of his or the ceos public utterances marry up . it was another compromise , unimaginative appointment when courage was required . eventually the club will be forced to appoint A manager of the level they should have done after Hughes , if they don’t the spiral will accelerate . Assumed you've never managed anything before in your life, let alone joining a demoralised underperforming team. Give him time he's exploring the best way of getting this squad to be successful and learnt that Bojan made a difference against Leeds and so should start. Let him keep doing it until we win, much better than the stupidity we had from Lambert and Hughes who expected to keep doing the same thing and get different results. If he has the balls to drop Joe Allen and Shawcross (if we can loan another CB) then I'll have respect for Rowett, now is the time for him to make decisions and make this HIS team. He can't rely on our old guard of players.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 11, 2018 21:25:32 GMT
Nothing at all. Just musing on why the the 'best team on paper' turns into what we see on the pitch. The comment from GR that big changes are coming seemed a bit like a battle of wills. Whether that exists I have no idea. You could be right. I can't believe the likes of shawcross are getting worse and worse, overall fitness and organisation is appalling. Something is just not working. These two performances so far are as bad as I've seen for years. I can see Rowett walking. Rowett walking away from the biggest contract of his life? Haha I think not. He's very lucky to have been given the job and he knows it.
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Post by minnierover on Aug 11, 2018 21:25:51 GMT
I would have respect for him if he came out and said I took the job on basis I was told I’d have the tools to build a promotion squad I provided the transfer team with a list of targets and they have failed me and the club but he won’t say that Or even more respect if he said ‘I’ve been well backed and it’s my fault I made a 29yr old shit footballer my main target and tied up about £10m in the bargain over 4 years’ That said it’s early days and no need to panic but let’s not pretend he hasn’t been backed by the board this far.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2018 21:27:38 GMT
I'm just praying that the last two games have been part of a master plan in psychological warfare in order to get PC to unzip his transfer donger
One can hope it wasn't pure ineptitude otherwise
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 11, 2018 21:34:01 GMT
Garry came to Stoke because of the money and because of the opportunity to build his own sqaud. The truth is his hands are tied because of the dross already here. Think about this for a minute. Etebo was not his signing but the board went ahead and filled a sqaud place in a position we did not need. The transfer team were already working on the deal. He might be a good player but one who as taken a place in the sqaud I an unbalanced team. To me this the problem and as been for a while. I remember Hughes saying that when good players become available we take them. Also it is not new to tell everyone that a number of players they want to ship out were given extensions when they were past Thier peak and can't get other clubs because of Thier fat wages. Me me one club who would take Charlie and pay him £40,000 or even £20,000. No one. Listening theGarry Heidi clearly pointing the finger at those above him and rightly so. It laughable when we need some life in the team we sign a player who is unfit. Again signed because of the good deal on offer and no for the need of the team. The system that Coates as I'm place could see us struggle this season. A year? Could happen with luck. We can´t be the only club trying to build on team from players who are best their best.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Aug 11, 2018 21:34:12 GMT
I'm just praying that the last two games have been part of a master plan in psychological warfare in order to get PC to unzip his transfer donger One can hope it wasn't pure ineptitude otherwise Don't wake up tomorrow and hope the tooth fairy has been mate, it aint going to happen
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