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Post by superleft on Jun 23, 2018 8:04:39 GMT
VAR will increase the chance of justice being done and that's good enough for me. It won't be perfect. It'll frustrate at times when subjective decisions don't go the way you want them to,but current refereeing frustrates more when you don't get a legitimate penalty or having an offside goal scored against you or a player not getting a red card. And one of the reasons it annoyed more was because football had an option in video refereeing but for a long time chose not to embrace it.
The only reason the statement "decisions even themselves out" exists is because var didn't exist to make it less of a lottery.
And it'll get better as it's refined.
Can not understand the "we fear change brigade" who would prefer to lose a game 1-0 to an offside goal or not get a legitimate pen that would mean a win/draw, where currently that's exactly what happens. You have to trudge off home and say "oh well over the course of a season hopefully it even out" VAR reduces the likelihood of having to hope.
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Post by starkiller on Jun 23, 2018 8:29:53 GMT
Some improvement would be made by the ref carrying a mobile screen on his person.
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Post by biglad180 on Jun 23, 2018 8:50:53 GMT
var is only as good as the people looking at the camera 2 blatant England penaltys missed and mitrovic one missed yesterday
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Post by luke45 on Jun 23, 2018 9:01:01 GMT
There's been 12 penalties awarded in this tournament so far, there was only 13 awarded in the entire 2014 World Cup tournament! It's looking like it could be 25-30 by the end of the tournament isn't it!
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 23, 2018 9:07:42 GMT
VAR will increase the chance of justice being done and that's good enough for me. It won't be perfect. It'll frustrate at times when subjective decisions don't go the way you want them to,but current refereeing frustrates more when you don't get a legitimate penalty or having an offside goal scored against you or a player not getting a red card. And one of the reasons it annoyed more was because football had an option in video refereeing but for a long time chose not to embrace it. The only reason the statement "decisions even themselves out" exists is because var didn't exist to make it less of a lottery. And it'll get better as it's refined. Can not understand the "we fear change brigade" who would prefer to lose a game 1-0 to an offside goal or not get a legitimate pen that would mean a win/draw, where currently that's exactly what happens. You have to trudge off home and say "oh well over the course of a season hopefully it even out" VAR reduces the likelihood of having to hope. <iframe width="27.25999999999999" height="6.399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 27.26px; height: 6.4px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_2213558" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="27.25999999999999" height="6.399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 27.26px; height: 6.4px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1283px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_44445814" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="27.25999999999999" height="6.399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 27.26px; height: 6.4px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 258px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_4712827" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="27.25999999999999" height="6.399999999999977" style="position: absolute; width: 27.26px; height: 6.4px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1283px; top: 258px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_27235476" scrolling="no"></iframe> Are you really sure about that? True, there were some excellent changes in decisions yesterday due to VAR, but there was also a howling error with the Mitrovic double rugby tackle incident. One minute you get a feeling of justice was done, then you feel even greater outrage than ever because justice was clearly not done, and you have to question not just the competence of those making the decisions but their impartiality. There are other downsides as well. Slowing the game down. Other sports are stop/start, like rugby, but football is at its best when it is "end to end". Now we have players surrounding the referee demanding he goes to VAR after an incident/goal. I do not fear change and think VAR is excellent for making judgements on fact like is the ball over the line or not, off-side position or not. But where a decision is a matter of opinion, particularly if there was sufficient contact to warrant a foul and interfering with play in an off-side position, VAR will always be inconsistent. Consequently I think there is a place for VAR but its value is limited, and there are serious downsides to its use.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jun 23, 2018 11:02:05 GMT
From what I've seen so far there are certainly more pros than cons, I like it!
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Post by Veritas on Jun 23, 2018 11:08:28 GMT
From what I've seen so far there are certainly more pros than cons, I like it! It has better than I feared but still some shocking decisions. Fortunately those involving Kane didn't affect the final result but Serbia must feel very aggrieved after yesterday's failure to award a penalty and Switzerland were again the beneficiaries against Brazil when their equaliser should have been disallowed. Those two decisions could well see Serbia knocked out.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jun 23, 2018 11:19:45 GMT
From what I've seen so far there are certainly more pros than cons, I like it! It has better than I feared but still some shocking decisions. Fortunately those involving Kane didn't affect the final result but Serbia must feel very aggrieved after yesterday's failure to award a penalty and Switzerland were again the beneficiaries against Brazil when their equaliser should have been disallowed. Those two decisions could well see Serbia knocked out. Must admit I thought the Swiss goal was OK, it was a minor push in the back, but not enough to award a free kick as I see it. That kind of pushing happens at every set piece situation today, and I've seen far worse through the PL season without anything been given. Football should also be a contact sport and I really hate players like Neymar rolling on the ground crying as a baby. He should watch more cycling on TV and man up!
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jun 23, 2018 11:27:08 GMT
VAR will increase the chance of justice being done and that's good enough for me. It won't be perfect. It'll frustrate at times when subjective decisions don't go the way you want them to,but current refereeing frustrates more when you don't get a legitimate penalty or having an offside goal scored against you or a player not getting a red card. And one of the reasons it annoyed more was because football had an option in video refereeing but for a long time chose not to embrace it. I disagree. I accept the referee and assistants have to make pretty much instant decisions, so I can accept that maybe 1% of the time, they won't get it right. The expectation with VAR is they'll get it right all the time. I can't accept that the double rugby challenge on Mitrovic wasn't noticed. Those on Kane were bad enough, so you'd think that sort of thing would've been highlighted to the VARs. I think a good compromise would be allow 2 challenges per game, which would stop players constantly requesting VAR. If a challenge is found to be correct, then the team doesn't lose a challenge. It might even stamp out a bit of the cheating.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 23, 2018 18:15:43 GMT
VAR. Snigger.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 18:17:14 GMT
Barging in to the back of someone isn’t a penalty then.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 23, 2018 18:24:01 GMT
This is what it’ll be like in the PL favouring the big clubs
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drbob
Spectator
Posts: 26
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Post by drbob on Jun 23, 2018 18:28:31 GMT
I’ve watched most matches so far and I have to say the use of VAR is massively open to use in match fixing and to settle political scores.
There have been some shocking decisions- 2 pens against Kane (+the Tunisia one) The decision against Serbia and just a blatant pen in Germany v Sweden. All absolutely clear and all penalties and shock decisions.
My question is - is there shenanigans going on to settle scores? Germany being media darlings, FIFA having it in for England after the Sepp Blatter crap.
The system is so perfect for abuse and FIFA so corrupt - is it being used fairly?
Bob
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Post by professorplump on Jun 23, 2018 18:33:35 GMT
There is no evidence to indicate that it is being manipulated. If it was then I don't think Brazil would have had their penalty overturned against Costa Rica. And VAR is no more corruptible than the on pitch referee.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 23, 2018 18:33:53 GMT
This is what it’ll be like in the PL favouring the big clubs I don't think it's being abused particularly it's just shit. I understand why a ref and linesman wouldn't give the peno in real time it's just madness that a review of it didn't! It seems to be really successful at righting technicalities and minor infringements but totally inept at righting howlers. That's not right.
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Post by professorplump on Jun 23, 2018 18:39:18 GMT
Going forward I would like to have the VAR referee miked up so we can hear their deliberations, as is the case in Rugby. It would help to make it more transparent.
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Post by professorplump on Jun 23, 2018 18:42:51 GMT
This is what it’ll be like in the PL favouring the big clubs But so far the big nations haven't been favoured particularly. Brazil had their penalty disallowed and the goal they conceded against Switzerland stood. England are a bigger nation than Tunisia and got nothing from VAR.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 23, 2018 18:48:39 GMT
Barging in to the back of someone isn’t a penalty then. only if is " considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force". There are too many people like Gary Lineker who say a player "has the right to go down" if he is touched, which is nonsense. Often when the pundits are judging whether there is a foul they seem to consider if contact was made it is a foul; there is no rule against touching as such, the rules refer to more extreme forms of contact like pushing, holding, kicking, striking (punch, head-butt), etc. Barging would suggest excessive force, but the word is not actually used in the rules. (Unless someone can correct me?) There is also a misconception that a tackle is legal if the tackler touches the ball first. A tackle or challenge is illegal if is reckless or uses excessive force or jumps at an opponent, whether the tackler touches the ball first of not. Commentators/pundits have viewed the VAR and judged a tackle to be legal simply because the tackler touched the ball first, which is not the case. IMO it is extremely difficult to judge excessive force on VAR, particularly in slow motion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 18:52:49 GMT
The problem is that VAR is still a system which is only as good as a few corruptable human beings sitting in a room watching the game on telly. The more I see blatant penalty decisions not reviewed the more I believe it will be as corrupted as FIFA is itself.
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Post by professorplump on Jun 23, 2018 18:56:08 GMT
The problem is that VAR is still a system which is only as good as a few corruptable human beings sitting in a room watching the game on telly. The more I see blatant penalty decisions not reviewed the more I believe it will be as corrupted as FIFA is itself. Sure it could be corrupted but so could the on field referee in a game that doesn't have VAR. So should we do away with referee's altogether?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 18:58:58 GMT
The problem is that VAR is still a system which is only as good as a few corruptable human beings sitting in a room watching the game on telly. The more I see blatant penalty decisions not reviewed the more I believe it will be as corrupted as FIFA is itself. Sure it could be corrupted but so could the on field referee in a game that doesn't have VAR. So should we do away with referee's altogether? No that's a daft idea. VAR has been brought in to ensure the correct decision is enforced everytime it is required. It is never going to do this in it's current form because it's still down to human decision. In short it's absolutely pointless because it's not serving the purpose it's meant to be serving.
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drbob
Spectator
Posts: 26
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Post by drbob on Jun 23, 2018 19:03:58 GMT
Would the perception of VAR be improved if the discussion of the review was broadcast - as is done in the cricket?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2018 19:07:00 GMT
Would the perception of VAR be improved if the discussion of the review was broadcast - as is done in the cricket? Probably not, because 99% of the decisions in Cricket are black and white whereas in nogger they're not.
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Post by professorplump on Jun 23, 2018 19:19:00 GMT
Sure it could be corrupted but so could the on field referee in a game that doesn't have VAR. So should we do away with referee's altogether? No that's a daft idea. VAR has been brought in to ensure the correct decision is enforced everytime it is required. It is never going to do this in it's current form because it's still down to human decision. In short it's absolutely pointless because it's not serving the purpose it's meant to be serving. Of course it was a daft idea and of course it will always be down to a human decision. But it is not absolutely pointless because it has already corrected several wrong decisions. It was great to see that it prevented Neymar from being able to cheat his way to a penalty and if it eradicates diving then I am all for it. Holding in the box does seem to be the most contentious issue and they seem reluctant at this stage to overturn the referee's decision on these. But if we end up with 90% right decisions instead of 80% then that is progress as far as I am concerned.
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Post by professorplump on Jun 23, 2018 19:19:36 GMT
Would the perception of VAR be improved if the discussion of the review was broadcast - as is done in the cricket? Absolutely it would.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 23, 2018 19:43:44 GMT
So they've started to lie to justify var now. Get rid.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jun 23, 2018 20:09:05 GMT
Would the perception of VAR be improved if the discussion of the review was broadcast - as is done in the cricket? I don't think it's that to be honest. I'm not a fan of VAR myself, but i think it could work somewhere down the line after far more trialling of it. There are just far,far too many teething problems and wrinkles that need to be ironed out by the officials at the moment and no one (including those officials) seem to look like they know how it's actually meant to be used so i don't think an audible discussion would help. They've rushed it in to make it look like the "new" FIFA are making positive steps. To bring it into the WC and basically trial it in the biggest competition in world football when hardly any of the competing nations have used it in their top leagues as yet (and consequently most of the ref's haven't either) was a woeful idea.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jun 23, 2018 20:09:29 GMT
As I’ve said previously, wait for the World Cup Final....you ain’t seen nothing yet. Players will be demanding VAR reviews over every controvertial decision and the use of the replay screen will only exacerbate this when players see any perceived wrong decision. It will be a farce.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Jun 23, 2018 20:18:14 GMT
VAR, or it's improper use, has enabled Germany to avoid humiliation. For that alone, it's got to go.
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Post by rambler on Jun 23, 2018 20:25:19 GMT
To stop it being fixed maybe each team should have a var challenge like in Tennis?
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