So I take it you don’t believe the FA for the drugs charge or the fact that he has been employed by SCFC for 18 months, served under two different managers and let all down whilst drawing a wage that you could only dream of and he played (well not) a significant part in our relegation. OK
By the way I can’t remember Pulis ever publicly saying anything degrogative about Berahino.
For all of the stick he gets, it must be said, Saido had less to do with our relegation than most.
The mega money spent on saido and Jesse , typified everything that was wrong about stoke last season
You would not find a pair of more disinterested apathetic lightweight ' strikers ' if you scoured all 4 leagues
Post by superheroantonius on Jun 8, 2018 18:01:15 GMT
Saido's name is an absolute misfit , with those rumoured to be comming in .
Andre grey , benik afobe , James McLean are pace , power and agression Technically they are not as good as aguero Salah hazard etc etc , no where near But that front line would physically batter anyone in the championship
If those players really are on their way ???? Saido is a total non starter in that sort of outfit
He is quiet , lightweight and lazy
Totally unsuited to joining the battering ram , rumoured??? To be on stoke's wanted list
I remember being told by a pal around Christmas who is a relation to a an ex player who is still very close to the club (he seldom gets news because of the closed circles at the club but he’s always right with the tit bits he gets) that Saido was largely detested in the camp, largely because he’d developed this persona that because the fans were desperate for him to succeed, that alone warranted his appearance in the team.
I think it’s safe to say that even though large swathes want him to succeed we’ve also largely come to not expect it. Hopefully that alone is enough to kick him up the arse (granted it shouldn’t have to).
I know we all dream of a team of dedicated pros but the reality is, most dedicated pros are that so that they can make up for technical limitations, it’s a modern day rarity to have someone with both except for the top top players. I teach that my son, he’s bang average at playing so I keep reiterating the importance of dedication and teamwork (which I’d personally always do). Saido is clearly one of the many modern day footballers with ability and an ego to match.
Egos take a battering. Let’s see what kind of a man he is and if he reacts positively to it or ends up one of those that piss it all away.
I still hope it’s the former.
PS. Completely agree.
I'm guessing your pal is related to Lawrence, only by your avatar though Well done with your lad by the way, you're teaching him well and I hope he looks at players like Walters and Wilko as an example, that through hardwork you can get places
To add to what you've said here, I would think his astronomical wages compared to that of say a Charlie Adam type or whoever, guys like Cameron.. players that have genuinely contributed to our success and amazing memories as a premier league team, look at him and think -- "this fucking guy doesn't even know what day it is" ---"Oh here comes Billy big Bollox, an hour late again and the boss let's him get away with it".... I would be SUPER RESENTFUL at work if some big time Charlie just turned up on the jobsite whenever he wanted and came in hungover and was on a mega hourly rate, compared to the "labourer types" who may be limited in skills but are always there grafting away and doing the dirty work to get the job done, with little or no thanks from the boss.
I am in 2 minds about how to deal with Saido. As Paul says above, he IS kind of an irrelevance. I think Rowett will sign 2 first team strikers and force Saido to either dislodge them or face the reality that his career is in fact OVER.
Make no mistakes, this is literally the last chance saloon for him between now and January. And I think Rowett will be on these players like white on rice trying to suss out who has the correct attitude and team ethic he will demand. A very HANDS ON approach, totally different to Hughes reclining in his office eating Pizza with Carto.. I could literally see him at the gate with his watch on Clayton Woods, like AVB did at Chelsea...
I think he has to earn the right for even a place on the bench. To just "Start him for the sake of it" is absolute madness and I cannot see Gaz risking his reputation on him for 1 second if I am honest. Sure if he destroys teams in PRE SEASON in Germany he'll be in with a shout, but I would think that GAz would expect that AS A MINIMUM REQUIREMENT -- He's our highest earner by all accounts, and if he doesnt justify it then he's toast... No way will Gaz risk alienating his new signings, only to find out SAido's been doing ecstacy in Ibiza or whatever again...
What a pickle we are in with this guy
Nah not Liam, that's the name the boy has though How much I'd love for another dog tripper like him in the team this season...
The pals relation relation? He's the grandchild of said old boy
It's definitely 'shit or bust' time for Saido. The one thing in his favour is the world cup. There will be minimal transfer activity mainly because the rollercoaster of activity won't start until the big boys are back, there will be chunks of the first team away and different players will report back at different times.
GR will have plenty of 1-2-1 time with him so I'd expect a quick opinion to be formed. I'm going to lean on the side of positivity though and hope that there's a decent chap hidden inside of Saido away from all of the bravado bollox and that he'll recognise its now or never. If he steps up, he'd annihilate this league with a big tough lad up top with him.
Could SAido's wages hold us over a barrel with any new striker signing? Meaning we will have to agree to match SAido's wages for the agent of said players to even consider a deal with us?
Why would a player want to earn less than a waster in the same position?
I mean the reality is that these "modern" players want to make the big bucks
Unless we do have a 50% relegation reduction clause in place across the board, then maybe these players will reconsider it, but there again -- Now we have the new guys earning more than the las who are willing to stay and help us kick on
As much as I want to give Teflon shit, this must be an incredibly complicated process to deal with. Brings to mind this Chris Wilder behind the scenes look at transfer dealings for Sheff Utd.
Could SAido's wages hold us over a barrel with any new striker signing? Meaning we will have to agree to match SAido's wages for the agent of said players to even consider a deal with us?
Why would a player want to earn less than a waster in the same position?
I mean the reality is that these "modern" players want to make the big bucks
Unless we do have a 50% relegation reduction clause in place across the board, then maybe these players will reconsider it, but there again -- Now we have the new guys earning more than the las who are willing to stay and help us kick on
As much as I want to give Teflon shit, this must be an incredibly complicated process to deal with. Brings to mind this Chris Wilder behind the scenes look at transfer dealings for Sheff Utd.
Bat shit crazy and not a single mention of players moving goalposts. Agents must laugh their cocks off. They do fuck all most of the year and whilst all of us are skint in January because of Christmas or August because of attempting to take the kids away during their summer holidays they're just whoring lads about during the windows for their own self interest.
I love football. I hate those leaches.
Last Edit: Jun 8, 2018 18:55:47 GMT by M - Back to Top
You can cut all the flowers, but you cannot keep spring from coming.
Post by burberrybassist on Jun 8, 2018 19:27:30 GMT
Realistically if Stoke had stayed up this year we would be looking at getting him some game time somewhere. It wouldn't be unrealistic for us to have tried to loan him out to a Championship club, now we ARE that club I'd more than happy to give him a chance.
The issue is though is what's he like in training and with the rest of the team? Obviously there are the well known stories of him coming in the wrong day etc etc but what's more telling is stuff like the video of Lambert backstage that they made the first couple of weeks he was there which shows Berahino sat on his own in the canteen away from the rest of the team. If the rest of the team have give up on him then there is no hope and he needs a fresh start somewhere. Saying that, buying half a new first 11 may help!
Realistically if Stoke had stayed up this year we would be looking at getting him some game time somewhere. It wouldn't be unrealistic for us to have tried to loan him out to a Championship club, now we ARE that club I'd more than happy to give him a chance.
The issue is though is what's he like in training and with the rest of the team? Obviously there are the well known stories of him coming in the wrong day etc etc but what's more telling is stuff like the video of Lambert backstage that they made the first couple of weeks he was there which shows Berahino sat on his own in the canteen away from the rest of the team. If the rest of the team have give up on him then there is no hope and he needs a fresh start somewhere. Saying that, buying half a new first 11 may help!
It's common in most jobs that someone will alienate themselves. It's not ideal but it happens.
A strong manager will reiterate to the masses that they have a responsibility to enable the alienated chap to reintegrate. Obviously it's two way. If Saido tries, they should let him try and treat it all on face value.
EDIT - It's also a myth that the onus starts with Saido. Maybe this is where (not saying it doesn't already) the manager or captain instigate and allow the natural course to follow.
Last Edit: Jun 8, 2018 19:38:12 GMT by M - Back to Top
You can cut all the flowers, but you cannot keep spring from coming.
Realistically if Stoke had stayed up this year we would be looking at getting him some game time somewhere. It wouldn't be unrealistic for us to have tried to loan him out to a Championship club, now we ARE that club I'd more than happy to give him a chance.
The issue is though is what's he like in training and with the rest of the team? Obviously there are the well known stories of him coming in the wrong day etc etc but what's more telling is stuff like the video of Lambert backstage that they made the first couple of weeks he was there which shows Berahino sat on his own in the canteen away from the rest of the team. If the rest of the team have give up on him then there is no hope and he needs a fresh start somewhere. Saying that, buying half a new first 11 may help!
Whatever your views on punishment vs rehabilitation, I'm just not so sure that Saido hasn't fallen further out of favour than even the Championship level! Perhaps the lower reaches - Wigan, Rotherham, Bolton - but couldn't see any of the clubs with either stability or ambition feeling he was an asset. He is coming across more as a Palacious case by the day.
Something tells me he may well be one of those players Danny Rose was talking about. He's just mentally shot. (Which is why he can't get to work on time)
And clearly if he gets a fresh start, can't see we'd get a fee, and can't see he'd earn even a quarter of what he does with us... So that means subsidies of £2m+. He is basically the new Danny Cadamateri.
we don't lose anything by trying him so it's worth at least Rowett taking a look.
I think we do.
Keeping him for 3 months is a year's salary for a decent Championship player. We lose money and the chance of a different player who might be useful. More than ever we need a tight team culture and he disrupts that. We lose harmony and focus. He would cost the focus of coaches and manager on the players who would be making a difference. We lose time of management. It sets an example, to others, that standards of basic fitness and self-management are optional at Stoke. We lose clarity on what is expected and what isn't tolerated.
So there are costs/ things we lose by granting another chance. Just hope, if we do, there are plusses to offset the above.
we don't lose anything by trying him so it's worth at least Rowett taking a look.
I think we do.
Keeping him for 3 months is a year's salary for a decent Championship player. We lose money and the chance of a different player who might be useful. More than ever we need a tight team culture and he disrupts that. We lose harmony and focus. He would cost the focus of coaches and manager on the players who would be making a difference. We lose time of management. It sets an example, to others, that standards of basic fitness and self-management are optional at Stoke. We lose clarity on what is expected and what isn't tolerated.
So there are costs/ things we lose by granting another chance. Just hope, if we do, there are plusses to offset the above.
What do we do with him then? Who takes him off us?
Keeping him for 3 months is a year's salary for a decent Championship player. We lose money and the chance of a different player who might be useful. More than ever we need a tight team culture and he disrupts that. We lose harmony and focus. He would cost the focus of coaches and manager on the players who would be making a difference. We lose time of management. It sets an example, to others, that standards of basic fitness and self-management are optional at Stoke. We lose clarity on what is expected and what isn't tolerated.
So there are costs/ things we lose by granting another chance. Just hope, if we do, there are plusses to offset the above.
What do we do with him then? Who takes him off us?
We've screwed up. Should have sacked him by now for gross unprofessional conduct. Or, before he hit rock bottom of the cess pit, which is where he was heading from Day 1, loaned to a Celtic / Rangers so he scored a few and then tried to get 4-5m for him.
Personally, I'd ostracise him completely and tell him not to come back to the club until called but to stay fit, and that he is free to find another club. Signs are that he was recently going stir crazy because he wanted to make contact again. Would have denied him the chance and left him to rot. He faces the choice, then, of going somewhere to play (which I think he would eventually take because of his mental weakness, or his career is basically completely wrecked, and so is he).
And I'd be setting people up to try and get him sacked - call him back occasionally to check his fitness, follow his car to catch him speeding, approach him with prostitutes, you name it!
What do we do with him then? Who takes him off us?
We've screwed up. Should have sacked him by now for gross unprofessional conduct. Or, before he hit rock bottom of the cess pit, which is where he was heading from Day 1, loaned to a Celtic / Rangers so he scored a few and then tried to get 4-5m for him.
Personally, I'd ostracise him completely and tell him not to come back to the club until called but to stay fit, and that he is free to find another club. Signs are that he was recently going stir crazy because he wanted to make contact again. Would have denied him the chance and left him to rot. He faces the choice, then, of going somewhere to play (which I think he would eventually take because of his mental weakness, or his career is basically completely wrecked, and so is he).
And I'd be setting people up to try and get him sacked - call him back occasionally to check his fitness, follow his car to catch him speeding, approach him with prostitutes, you name it!
If we sacked him he'd sue us and win. He was fit at the end wasn't he? we won't get rid of him so we may as well see how he goes.
The last sentence, i've no doubt is a joke, but the fact i can imagine it being a serious comment is an indictment of some football fans.
We've screwed up. Should have sacked him by now for gross unprofessional conduct. Or, before he hit rock bottom of the cess pit, which is where he was heading from Day 1, loaned to a Celtic / Rangers so he scored a few and then tried to get 4-5m for him.
Personally, I'd ostracise him completely and tell him not to come back to the club until called but to stay fit, and that he is free to find another club. Signs are that he was recently going stir crazy because he wanted to make contact again. Would have denied him the chance and left him to rot. He faces the choice, then, of going somewhere to play (which I think he would eventually take because of his mental weakness, or his career is basically completely wrecked, and so is he).
And I'd be setting people up to try and get him sacked - call him back occasionally to check his fitness, follow his car to catch him speeding, approach him with prostitutes, you name it!
If we sacked him he'd sue us and win. He was fit at the end wasn't he? we won't get rid of him so we may as well see how he goes.
The last sentence, i've no doubt is a joke, but the fact i can imagine it being a serious comment is an indictment of some football fans.
Frankly I'm not sure. In life, I manage folks and try - in my limited way - to do the utmost to make my team's jobs enjoyable and fulfilling; forgiving mistakes routinely and encouraging them with opportunity.
I struggle, though, with the idea that someone could take 70k a week from working people and fail so miserably; and then not offer some sort of proactive gesture in recognition of such: A pay cut. An offer to go on loan and regain form. (Irrespective of contract, there is human decency). So, yes, I am afraid the thought passes my head that thinks, "surely for 100k I could find someone who can devise a strategy that plays on every psychological string there is to make his life a waking horror, but not leave a finger print.... Or rather get him to settle for some realistic pay off and vanish." Sorry I am not a better person to be seduced by such thoughts!.
A weeks wages would employ 2 of the people that have been laid off this past week.
Berahinio could have saved Stoke and a prime reason for relegation, the man has no shame. I wouldn't want us to fail to get promotion because again he couldn't be arsed to score goals, I would make sure he never had a top flight club ever again.
we don't lose anything by trying him so it's worth at least Rowett taking a look.
What a ridiculously naive statement.
We could lose our best shot at a return to the Prem by 'trying' him.
He shouldn't even remotely be in the thoughts of Rowett this summer, if Rowett is properly focused on achieving that aim.
Come on PS you're not daft.
We won't be able to shift him so giving him a chance won't effect incomings, if Rowett likes what he sees in training maybe he will get a tune out of him. If he can't then no mither.
We could lose our best shot at a return to the Prem by 'trying' him.
He shouldn't even remotely be in the thoughts of Rowett this summer, if Rowett is properly focused on achieving that aim.
What? How?
So Rowett looking at him in training is going to lose us our shot at the prem?
It depends what your definition of 'trying him' is.
People on this thread are suggesting he should be tried for a run of 10 games or even more from the start of the season, you didn't mention 'just looking at him in training' originally.
We could lose our best shot at a return to the Prem by 'trying' him.
He shouldn't even remotely be in the thoughts of Rowett this summer, if Rowett is properly focused on achieving that aim.
Come on PS you're not daft.
We won't be able to shift him so giving him a chance won't effect incomings, if Rowett likes what he sees in training maybe he will get a tune out of him. If he can't then no mither.
When Rowett is considering his formations, strike force options and transfer strategy this summer, then Berahino shouldn't even enter his consciousness, not if he's properly focused on the job he's been tasked with, that being, getting us back up, at the first attempt.
So Rowett looking at him in training is going to lose us our shot at the prem?
It depends what your definition of 'trying him' is.
People on this thread are suggesting he should be tried for a run of 10 games or even more from the start of the season, you didn't mention 'just looking at him in training' originally.
If Rowett thinks he can get a tune out of him and sticks 3 creative players around him he can do what he likes with the lad.
He's not going anywhere so worth looking at him to see.
It depends what your definition of 'trying him' is.
People on this thread are suggesting he should be tried for a run of 10 games or even more from the start of the season, you didn't mention 'just looking at him in training' originally.
If Rowett thinks he can get a tune out of him and sticks 3 creative players around him he can do what he likes with the lad.
He's not going anywhere so worth looking at him to see.
No Rowett needs to be focusing ENTIRELY on getting us straight back up and not wasting anytime whatsoever on rehabilitating failed signings made by a failed manager.
Yes there might be a 'project' in there somewhere, sometime, for somebody but Stoke City has got far more important things to focus on this time around.
It was this sort of thinking that got us relegated in the first place, we're not going to make exactly the same mistake a second time.
If Rowett thinks he can get a tune out of him and sticks 3 creative players around him he can do what he likes with the lad.
He's not going anywhere so worth looking at him to see.
No Rowett needs to be focusing ENTIRELY on getting us straight back up and not wasting anytime whatsoever on rehabilitating failed signings made by a failed manager.
Yes there might be a 'project' in there somewhere, sometime, for somebody but Stoke City has got far more important things to focus on this time around.
It was this sort of thinking that got us relegated in the first place, we're not going to make exactly the same mistake a second time.
He can coach the whole team. I'm not saying spend every waking minute with Saido holding his hand. I'm saying if he feels he's useful why not have a look at him?
No Rowett needs to be focusing ENTIRELY on getting us straight back up and not wasting anytime whatsoever on rehabilitating failed signings made by a failed manager.
Yes there might be a 'project' in there somewhere, sometime, for somebody but Stoke City has got far more important things to focus on this time around.
It was this sort of thinking that got us relegated in the first place, we're not going to make exactly the same mistake a second time.
He can coach the whole team. I'm not saying spend every waking minute with Saido holding his hand. I'm saying if he feels he's useful why not have a look at him?
And I'm saying he can 'look at him' once he's happy with his formation, once he's happy with his recruitment strategy and once he's happy with the new strikers (plural) that he's brought to the club.
But that NONE of the above should be remotely affected by the fact that Berahino is already at the club.
He's not Rowett's problem, if Scholes and Cartwright can't find a suitable loan club for him to go to, then Rowett can give him a cursory look over, once he's got all the IMPORTANT stuff sorted out.
It depends what your definition of 'trying him' is.
People on this thread are suggesting he should be tried for a run of 10 games or even more from the start of the season, you didn't mention 'just looking at him in training' originally.
If Rowett thinks he can get a tune out of him and sticks 3 creative players around him he can do what he likes with the lad.
He's not going anywhere so worth looking at him to see.
Also I'd question the merits of having this overpaid underperforming player in the squad at all. Can see him being a divisive figure in the changing room.
Give him a chance, if I was GR I wouldn't give him the time of day!
Okay, I would give him a fair chance, I promise that I would shut my eyes count to one hundred and then that would be it ! I’d see how fit the fat little bastardisation “ great word “ was let’s see him out run a 12 bore .