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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 24, 2018 16:01:38 GMT
If he wants to stick by some of the men that have helped relegate the club then that’s his prerogative. It really his decision to make but why come out with twaddle about process, that just makes him seem arrogant, aloof and out of touch.
It just needed a bit more humility along the lines of,
‘although results may suggest otherwise, we have been impressed with how Paul has approached the job thus far and if we are relegated, I’d like to give him the opportunity to get us back up. I can promise him the backing he needs and I’m sure we’ll have a real good tilt at coming back up first time.
There is no doubt that many of our recent signings have not worked out, everyone involved must take responsibility for that, it’s not easy but our hit rate of success really needs to improve and I’m sure everyone will be working towards that. We will review what went wrong with a few of our recent higher profile purchases and try and avoid the same mistakes again.’
Now I know we all would have still gone batty and it might of been seen as transparent by most but it just might have taken the edge off the anger caused by the utter bollocks of yesterday.
Does he not have a PR man?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 16:07:57 GMT
If he wants to stick by some of the men that have helped relegate the club then that’s his prerogative. It really his decision to make but why come out with twaddle about process, that just makes him seem arrogant, aloof and out of touch. It just needed a bit more humility along the lines of, ‘although results may suggest otherwise, we have been impressed with how Paul has approached the job thus far and if we are relegated, I’d like to give him the opportunity to get us back up. I can promise him the backing he needs and I’m sure we’ll have a real good tilt at coming back up first time. There is no doubt that many of our recent signings have not worked out, everyone involved must take responsibility for that, it’s not easy but our hit rate of success really needs to improve and I’m sure everyone will be working towards that. We will review what went wrong with a few of our recent higher profile purchases and try and avoid the same mistakes again.’ Now I know we all would have still gone batty and it might of been seen as transparent by most but it just might have taken the edge off the anger caused by the utter bollocks of yesterday. Does he not have a PR man? You don't become part of a family that are multi billionaires by having humility. You plod on regardless and deal with the next fire fight when it lands on your doorstep, charging the fireman a premium for doing the job they could do for free.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Apr 24, 2018 16:51:35 GMT
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Post by lawrieleslie on Apr 24, 2018 16:53:30 GMT
Coates asks "“At the moment, West Brom, Southampton and ourselves are all candidates to do down and who would have forecast that at the start of the season"...........obviously he doesn’t listen to the fans or read the Oatcake then.
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Post by cousindupree on Apr 24, 2018 17:33:08 GMT
Smudge’s thoughts on the matter As usual, Smudge is pretty much bang on the money. No he isn't, the article seems weighted towards supporting the club and fails to articulate the true feelings of most. Firstly I don't get much of a feeling that people want Coates's head on a spike. People want him to acknowledge that the last 12 months have been a shambolic stewardship by Coates, mistake after mistake was made culminating in our relegation from an uncomfortable but not impossible situation in January. The recruitment particularly last summer was woeful and done on the cheap. If Cartwright isn't to blame as head of recruitment then you have to ask what the hell is role is. We want better and an improvement in recruitment and a start is by firing the guy who manages the recruitment process so poorly. WBA have done just that, it shouldn't be too difficult to find someone with better credentials than Cartwright. Secondly Lambert presumably was brought in with a brief to keep us up by winiing probably 4 games and drawing a few. He hasn't just missed that target he has failed miserably and is in line to become statistically one of our 3 worse managers in the entire club history. Coates by doing absolutely nothing is rewarding mediocrity at best and abject failure at worse. By keeping the 2 abject failures Coates is in danger of presiding over a gradual decline into probably the lower reaches of the champs flirting occasionally with relegation. That no changes are deemed necessary after an absolute car crash beggars belief. People want to see better stewardship from Coates and better people in key positions within the club.
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Post by vahl on Apr 24, 2018 17:34:08 GMT
Mark Hughes was sacked too late- Coates to blame. Scholes and Cartwright unfit for purpose- Coates employs them. Paul Lambert has no wins in 11 games- Coates employed him. "It's not Lambert's fault we haven't got a striker"- no it's Coates' fault as he left it until halfway through the window to sack Hughes. See a pattern? Coates is reverting to type- don't forget we were heading for oblivion under him before the Icelandics took over. He has form. I mean, if he wants to cause the club problems all he has to do is recall the £75m+ we owe the Bet365 group. Could put us out of business by lunchtime tomorrow. That's the angle you're going for here right, that he's out to destroy the club, that he wants to leave a legacy of problems? He's not Karl Oyston, thankfully, but you make a good point. It's not end of the world bad, this situation, but it's frustrating in the sense that we could be using this predicament to take a fresh approach going forward and we're not. The same old tried and tested failures will be repeated over and over again but really I'm most looking forward to the second coming of Titus Bramble in the next few months - go get 'em Carto - you'll be up there getting compared to people like Eric Harrison (Sir Alex's secret weapon) in no time, with that top notch eye for talent and all.
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 24, 2018 17:37:12 GMT
I mean, if he wants to cause the club problems all he has to do is recall the £75m+ we owe the Bet365 group. Could put us out of business by lunchtime tomorrow. That's the angle you're going for here right, that he's out to destroy the club, that he wants to leave a legacy of problems? He's not Karl Oyston, thankfully, but you make a good point. It's not end of the world bad, this situation, but it's frustrating in the sense that we could be using this predicament to take a fresh approach going forward and we're not. The same old tried and tested failures will be repeated over and over again but really I'm most looking forward to the second coming of Titus Bramble in the next few months - go get 'em Carto - you'll be up there getting compared to people like Eric Harrison (Sir Alex's secret weapon) in no time, with that top notch eye for talent and all. He's a fucking weapon alright.
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 24, 2018 17:40:00 GMT
So the Circus goes on with two of the biggest clowns alive still in managerial positions
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 24, 2018 17:45:43 GMT
Coates asks "“At the moment, West Brom, Southampton and ourselves are all candidates to do down and who would have forecast that at the start of the season"...........obviously he doesn’t listen to the fans or read the Oatcake then. On this particular issue I think Peter Coates is correct. At the start of this season I only remember one person forecasting relegation for Stoke, and as he had been wrong for the best part of a decade, few if any took him seriously.
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 24, 2018 17:51:26 GMT
Coates asks "“At the moment, West Brom, Southampton and ourselves are all candidates to do down and who would have forecast that at the start of the season"...........obviously he doesn’t listen to the fans or read the Oatcake then. On this particular issue I think Peter Coates is correct. At the start of this season I only remember one person forecasting relegation for Stoke, and as he had been wrong for the best part of a decade, few if any took him seriously. Your memory is pretty shit then, plenty on here were saying we would be relegated before the season started when the old duffer bottled out on sacking Mark and his tit's it was nailed on for me, sell your best players and replace them with shit you end up in the shit it a'int fcuking rocket science is it.
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 24, 2018 17:57:34 GMT
On this particular issue I think Peter Coates is correct. At the start of this season I only remember one person forecasting relegation for Stoke, and as he had been wrong for the best part of a decade, few if any took him seriously. Your memory is pretty shit then, plenty on here were saying we would be relegated before the season started when the old duffer bottled out on sacking Mark and his tit's it was nailed on for me, sell your best players and replace them with shit you end up in the shit it a'int fcuking rocket science is it. There were plenty of people on here who were unhappy about results at the end of last season, but posters forecasting relegation at the start of this season, there weren't many. Indeed after results against Arsenal and United moral on here was quite good.
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 24, 2018 18:00:43 GMT
Your memory is pretty shit then, plenty on here were saying we would be relegated before the season started when the old duffer bottled out on sacking Mark and his tit's it was nailed on for me, sell your best players and replace them with shit you end up in the shit it a'int fcuking rocket science is it. There were plenty of people on here who were unhappy about results at the end of last season, but posters forecasting relegation at the start of this season, there weren't many. Indeed after results against Arsenal and United moral on here was quite good. Did you witness the lap of shame at the end of last season ?
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 24, 2018 18:04:43 GMT
There were plenty of people on here who were unhappy about results at the end of last season, but posters forecasting relegation at the start of this season, there weren't many. Indeed after results against Arsenal and United moral on here was quite good. Did you witness the lap of shame at the end of last season ? Coates is talking about the start of this season and the fact that not many would have forecast West Brom, Stoke and Southampton for the drop, he might be wrong about a number of things but on this specific issue I think he's right.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 24, 2018 18:32:37 GMT
There were plenty of people on here who were unhappy about results at the end of last season, but posters forecasting relegation at the start of this season, there weren't many. Indeed after results against Arsenal and United moral on here was quite good. Did you witness the lap of shame at the end of last season ? The "lap of shame" as you call it, is etched in many memories -including mine. But let's be honest, the general trend of this board at the end of last summer's transfer window was that we could be reasonably confident that we had had a good window and were in better shape for the new season than the way we finished the previous one. Clearly the optimism was misplaced - but that was the majority opinion - and I was certainly with the majority in looking forward to a reasonable season. As Geoff says, after the Arsenal and Man Utd results, a clear majority were reasonably confident - not ecstatic, but reasonably confident. You may well have been in the minority who still predicted a poor season - if you were, then well done - but don't think you were in the majority - at that time you weren't.
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Post by pottersrule on Apr 24, 2018 18:34:08 GMT
If he wants to stick by some of the men that have helped relegate the club then that’s his prerogative. It really his decision to make but why come out with twaddle about process, that just makes him seem arrogant, aloof and out of touch. It just needed a bit more humility along the lines of, ‘although results may suggest otherwise, we have been impressed with how Paul has approached the job thus far and if we are relegated, I’d like to give him the opportunity to get us back up. I can promise him the backing he needs and I’m sure we’ll have a real good tilt at coming back up first time. There is no doubt that many of our recent signings have not worked out, everyone involved must take responsibility for that, it’s not easy but our hit rate of success really needs to improve and I’m sure everyone will be working towards that. We will review what went wrong with a few of our recent higher profile purchases and try and avoid the same mistakes again.’ Now I know we all would have still gone batty and it might of been seen as transparent by most but it just might have taken the edge off the anger caused by the utter bollocks of yesterday. Does he not have a PR man? Yes a Mr Tony Scholes i think his name is.
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 24, 2018 18:54:33 GMT
Did you witness the lap of shame at the end of last season ? The "lap of shame" as you call it, is etched in many memories -including mine. But let's be honest, the general trend of this board at the end of last summer's transfer window was that we could be reasonably confident that we had had a good window and were in better shape for the new season than the way we finished the previous one. Clearly the optimism was misplaced - but that was the majority opinion - and I was certainly with the majority in looking forward to a reasonable season. As Geoff says, after the Arsenal and Man Utd results, a clear majority were reasonably confident - not ecstatic, but reasonably confident. You may well have been in the minority who still predicted a poor season - if you were, then well done - but don't think you were in the majority - at that time you weren't. Good window
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 24, 2018 20:12:44 GMT
Why say anything then? He’s trying to lower expectation, why do nothing about a manager with a very poor record and a recruitment manager that’s not just made one enormous arse up (which you may forgive) but he’s made 3 gigantic mistakes and a handful of smaller errors regarding players coming in. It beggars belief that someone doing their job so poorly can remain in place. You ask "Why say anything then?" Let's face it, if he'd said nothing he'd be criticised for hiding from the fans and refusing to face the situation. You say the recruitment manager has "made 3 gigantic mistakes". He got the players Hughes wanted. Who would've been praised if those 3 players had been a success? It wouldn't have been the recruitment manager. He's not going to get rid of Lambert with 3 games to go. And he's not going to say now that he'll get rid of him at the end of the season. Neither of those scenarios are realistic. It’s called doing your job, you don’t just get the players a manger wants, you do the due diligence, ensure their right, testimonials, research , all of the elements of the job Cartwright should be doing right. He’s not, simple as. Get real
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Post by Miles Offside on Apr 25, 2018 7:58:23 GMT
You ask "Why say anything then?" Let's face it, if he'd said nothing he'd be criticised for hiding from the fans and refusing to face the situation. You say the recruitment manager has "made 3 gigantic mistakes". He got the players Hughes wanted. Who would've been praised if those 3 players had been a success? It wouldn't have been the recruitment manager. He's not going to get rid of Lambert with 3 games to go. And he's not going to say now that he'll get rid of him at the end of the season. Neither of those scenarios are realistic. It’s called doing your job, you don’t just get the players a manger wants, you do the due diligence, ensure their right, testimonials, research , all of the elements of the job Cartwright should be doing right. He’s not, simple as. Get real The world and his dog knew about Berahino's personal problems while at West Brom, that he hadn't scored for a year and even Sgt Major Pulis couldn't sort him. Yet Hughes still wanted him and you're blaming Cartwright for not carrying out due diligence? Brilliant The aggregate fees and contracts for Berahino, Imbula and Wimmer cost the club a whole year of its Premier League income. Meanwhile, lesser-paid players are on the pitch every week trying to keep us up. Hughes would have been (rightly) praised had they been a success, but they weren't and the buck stops with him. Go on, I'll let you have the last word.
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Post by vahl on Apr 25, 2018 8:17:21 GMT
It’s called doing your job, you don’t just get the players a manger wants, you do the due diligence, ensure their right, testimonials, research , all of the elements of the job Cartwright should be doing right. He’s not, simple as. Get real The world and his dog knew about Berahino's personal problems while at West Brom, that he hadn't scored for a year and even Sgt Major Pulis couldn't sort him. Yet Hughes still wanted him and you're blaming Cartwright for not carrying out due diligence? Brilliant The aggregate fees and contracts for Berahino, Imbula and Wimmer cost the club a whole year of its Premier League income. Meanwhile, lesser-paid players are on the pitch every week trying to keep us up. Hughes would have been (rightly) praised had they been a success, but they weren't and the buck stops with him. Go on, I'll let you have the last word. wakefieldstokie is right - read what the Chairman has said. Mark Hughes' role in transfers, besides obvious signings of his own merit, has been nothing more than to choose from what has been put in front of him. That's what he's saying. You then think, well, who is putting the manager in a position where he's having to choose shit players?
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Post by JurgenVandeurzen on Apr 25, 2018 8:21:20 GMT
Coates really needs to just shut up for a bit. Every time he opens his mouth its patronising rubbish.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 25, 2018 8:23:04 GMT
I really don’t think it’s as clear cut as Hughes having no input into transfers beyond picking names from a list put in front of him.
He will have had his own targets and own input and own ideas and that will have driven the type of player we went for. It’s not like he sat down, Carto gave him a list and Hughes got his readers out and said stuff like “Saido Berahino? Now why does that name sound familiar?”
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 25, 2018 8:29:57 GMT
I really don’t think it’s as clear cut as Hughes having no input into transfers beyond picking names from a list put in front of him. He will have had his own targets and own input and own ideas and that will have driven the type of player we went for. It’s not like he sat down, Carto gave him a list and Hughes got his readers out and said stuff like “Saido Berahino? Now why does that name sound familiar?” And we know for a fact that Cartwright is more than a glorified scout. He was there sitting in on the Diouf talks. His job title on the official website is Technical Director. Which for me would suggest (I have no idea if it's what it is in this case and I suspect it isn't) that he is way more than a scout. And would encompass training methods, tactics, recruitment etc. It's a very broad job title. But if he's a "director" of something and has had so little influence allegedly then just what is the point of him?
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Post by captainmainwaring on Apr 25, 2018 8:33:39 GMT
The world and his dog knew about Berahino's personal problems while at West Brom, that he hadn't scored for a year and even Sgt Major Pulis couldn't sort him. Yet Hughes still wanted him and you're blaming Cartwright for not carrying out due diligence? Brilliant The aggregate fees and contracts for Berahino, Imbula and Wimmer cost the club a whole year of its Premier League income. Meanwhile, lesser-paid players are on the pitch every week trying to keep us up. Hughes would have been (rightly) praised had they been a success, but they weren't and the buck stops with him. Go on, I'll let you have the last word. wakefieldstokie is right - read what the Chairman has said. Mark Hughes' role in transfers, besides obvious signings of his own merit, has been nothing more than to choose from what has been put in front of him. That's what he's saying. You then think, well, who is putting the manager in a position where he's having to choose shit players? Which players did MH choose, apart from the ones of his own merit, that had been put in front of him?
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Post by vahl on Apr 25, 2018 8:36:31 GMT
I really don’t think it’s as clear cut as Hughes having no input into transfers beyond picking names from a list put in front of him. He will have had his own targets and own input and own ideas and that will have driven the type of player we went for. It’s not like he sat down, Carto gave him a list and Hughes got his readers out and said stuff like “Saido Berahino? Now why does that name sound familiar?” Of course, but you have to explain these things in the most simple way, this is a public forum and a lot of people don't care about the ins & outs of everything. I could go on & on about this subject but who actually cares about the nitty gritty? I just feel like it is important to get the point across about Carto needing to be changed. There is a lot of work that goes in to investigating players done by A LOT of people, I know, it's actually one of the more difficult departments in football and not everyone can be good at it consistently. It doesn't matter what the process involves at all though, what matters is that someone at the club thinks these players are good enough to begin with. (Berahino basically scouted himself being a Premier League goalscorer & England international, he's a bad example to use for our scouting process)
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Post by vahl on Apr 25, 2018 8:43:30 GMT
wakefieldstokie is right - read what the Chairman has said. Mark Hughes' role in transfers, besides obvious signings of his own merit, has been nothing more than to choose from what has been put in front of him. That's what he's saying. You then think, well, who is putting the manager in a position where he's having to choose shit players? Which players did MH choose, apart from the ones of his own merit, that had been put in front of him? I think we all know who Sparkys men were. Spanish love affair and hard on for crap CB's? Shaqiri was just a coup. Everyone else must be the masterstroke of the genius.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 25, 2018 8:44:17 GMT
I really don’t think it’s as clear cut as Hughes having no input into transfers beyond picking names from a list put in front of him. He will have had his own targets and own input and own ideas and that will have driven the type of player we went for. It’s not like he sat down, Carto gave him a list and Hughes got his readers out and said stuff like “Saido Berahino? Now why does that name sound familiar?” Of course, but you have to explain these things in the most simple way, this is a public forum and a lot of people don't care about the ins & outs of everything. I could go on & on about this subject but who actually cares about the nitty gritty? I just feel like it is important to get the point across about Carto needing to be changed. There is a lot of work that goes in to investigating players done by A LOT of people, I know, it's actually one of the more difficult departments in football and not everyone can be good at it consistently. It doesn't matter what the process involves at all though, what matters is that someone at the club thinks these players are good enough to begin with. (Berahino basically scouted himself being a Premier League goalscorer & England international, he's a bad example to use for our scouting process) Hughes himself would already have had some decent contacts overseas independent of Carto and the boys as well.
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Post by vahl on Apr 25, 2018 8:53:29 GMT
Of course, but you have to explain these things in the most simple way, this is a public forum and a lot of people don't care about the ins & outs of everything. I could go on & on about this subject but who actually cares about the nitty gritty? I just feel like it is important to get the point across about Carto needing to be changed. There is a lot of work that goes in to investigating players done by A LOT of people, I know, it's actually one of the more difficult departments in football and not everyone can be good at it consistently. It doesn't matter what the process involves at all though, what matters is that someone at the club thinks these players are good enough to begin with. (Berahino basically scouted himself being a Premier League goalscorer & England international, he's a bad example to use for our scouting process) Hughes himself would already have had some decent contacts overseas independent of Carto and the boys as well. You would have thought so but other than tapping in to Barcelona what have we seen of that? Also if there was a plethora of overseas contacts independent of Carto then why do we even need Carto ? Sparky's contacts other than the above started and ended with Kia Joorabchian it seems.
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Post by maliciousdamage on Apr 25, 2018 8:54:41 GMT
I’m sick of this bullshit “the manager had the final say on players” of course he did but I’ve no doubt he was putting forward a list of more high profile more expensive players to Scholes and Carto and they couldn’t or wouldn’t land them leaving lesser players for Hughes to ‘ok’. He’d got to have ‘some’ new faces in to try to freshen things up I’ve no doubt he was becoming more disillusioned over the last 18 months but he’s not going to quit and lose money he’s going to carrry on regardless. For me there are two indicators if you look back to prove Hughes wasn’t always spotting/pushing for players: Pieters was coming through the door as Pulis was leaving and Hughes was coming in so someone authorised that deal behind a managers back either the outgoing or incoming. I don’t believe Hughes chased Berahino for three windows and the 12 months after he signs sits in a press conference and says when asked why he isn’t playing him that “he doesn’t fit my system”. It’s bull Scholes/Carto no doubt ignored more high profile targets of Hughes choice only to get Berahino in as they thought they’d get him cheap and they could sell him on for treble the money if he started scoring again and it’s backfired spectacularly.
If Coates thinks these people can bring us back including Lambert he’s deluded and fooling himself, I can see it now in 6-12 months they’ll be paying Lambert up and we will have another load of garbage to try and shift on
It needs a clear out top to bottom and a restart
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 25, 2018 9:00:10 GMT
I’m sick of this bullshit “the manager had the final say on players” of course he did but I’ve no doubt he was putting forward a list of more high profile more expensive players to Scholes and Carto and they couldn’t or wouldn’t land them leaving lesser players for Hughes to ‘ok’. He’d got to have ‘some’ new faces in to try to freshen things up I’ve no doubt he was becoming more disillusioned over the last 18 months but he’s not going to quit and lose money he’s going to carrry on regardless. For me there are two indicators if you look back to prove Hughes wasn’t always spotting/pushing for players: Pieters was coming through the door as Pulis was leaving and Hughes was coming in so someone authorised that deal behind a managers back either the outgoing or incoming. I don’t believe Hughes chased Berahino for three windows and the 12 months after he signs sits in a press conference and says when asked why he isn’t playing him that “he doesn’t fit my system”. It’s bull Scholes/Carto no doubt ignored more high profile targets of Hughes choice only to get Berahino in as they thought they’d get him cheap and they could sell him on for treble the money if he started scoring again and it’s backfired spectacularly. If Coates thinks these people can bring us back including Lambert he’s deluded and fooling himself, I can see it now in 6-12 months they’ll be paying Lambert up and we will have another load of garbage to try and shift on It needs a clear out top to bottom and a restart So what are you suggesting then, that Hughes had Berahino forced upon him?
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Post by george2again on Apr 25, 2018 9:44:37 GMT
From my experience of life when people hit there seventies let alone eighties making decisions becomes harder and harder and they like routine and no change. Is this what we have seen with an aging chairman who has clearly not reacted to whats been happening in the club for the past two years? Clearly he wanted to appoint a shambolic manager like Lambert because he said what he wanted to hear and thats comforting to hear rather than take a chance on someone who may have been a bit more radical. Thank you Mr Coates for all you have done but and a big but our club can't be run like it has been any longer and insticts have to be followed and not false loyalty. Loyalty is a trait of a bygone era and his genertaion to be fair but not one you can afford in modern football. How the hell can anyone consdier keeping Lambert on with his track record - ludicrous. This club needs to sweep aside the losing mentality it has and a big shake up
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