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Post by followyoudown on Mar 8, 2019 14:13:18 GMT
Source: Home Office
Knife crime tends to be more prevalent in large cities, particularly in London.
For every 100,000 people in the capital, there were 168 knife offences in 2017-18, with separate figures, from the mayor's office, showing that young black and minority ethnic teenage boys and men were disproportionately affected, as both victims and perpetrators.
Seems to be an issue amongst the young BME communities, stop and search has fallen dramatically since Mr Khan took the role as mayor which he has instigated.
Stop and Search fell from 600,000 in 2009 to 140,000 by 2016. Khan was elected in May 2016. 17/18 accounted for 134,000 stop and searches. So who did it fall most dramatically under? Khan, or Boris? Sources: fullfact.org/crime/stop-and-search-england-and-wales/ www.stop-watch.org/your-area/area/metropolitanAnd when did knife crime start to rise 2015/16 after 3 years of falling not blaming that on the mayor but when trends change maybe you change the policies too although much easier to blame the government then admitting that maybe he could have done more also www.statista.com/statistics/864736/knife-crime-in-london/
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Mar 8, 2019 14:27:31 GMT
And when did knife crime start to rise 2015/16 after 3 years of falling not blaming that on the mayor but when trends change maybe you change the policies too although much easier to blame the government then admitting that maybe he could have done more also www.statista.com/statistics/864736/knife-crime-in-london/ That may be so, and I’m not even a big fan of Khan, but people saying he instigated the “dramatic fall” in stop and search numbers are incorrect.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 8, 2019 17:04:56 GMT
Source: Home Office
Knife crime tends to be more prevalent in large cities, particularly in London.
For every 100,000 people in the capital, there were 168 knife offences in 2017-18, with separate figures, from the mayor's office, showing that young black and minority ethnic teenage boys and men were disproportionately affected, as both victims and perpetrators.
Seems to be an issue amongst the young BME communities, stop and search has fallen dramatically since Mr Khan took the role as mayor which he has instigated.
Stop and Search fell from 600,000 in 2009 to 140,000 by 2016. Khan was elected in May 2016. 17/18 accounted for 134,000 stop and searches. So who did it fall most dramatically under? Khan, or Boris? Sources: fullfact.org/crime/stop-and-search-england-and-wales/ www.stop-watch.org/your-area/area/metropolitanApologies my bad, why did stop and search fall so dramatically was it down to the reduction in police numbers alone or is there another factor ?
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Post by wagsastokie on Mar 8, 2019 17:08:31 GMT
Apologies my bad, why did stop and search fall so dramatically was it down to the reduction in police numbers alone or is there another factor ? It was to stop the poor little darlings from feeling victimised
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 8, 2019 17:21:53 GMT
And when did knife crime start to rise 2015/16 after 3 years of falling not blaming that on the mayor but when trends change maybe you change the policies too although much easier to blame the government then admitting that maybe he could have done more also www.statista.com/statistics/864736/knife-crime-in-london/ That may be so, and I’m not even a big fan of Khan, but people saying he instigated the “dramatic fall” in stop and search numbers are incorrect. Tooting MP Mr Khan, pictured, also pledged to strengthen rules that prevent officers stopping people simply on the basis of their skin colour, by changing the law to make it illegal. He said: “The last few years have shown what can be achieved when there’s a concerted effort to reduce the overuse of stop and search. “But there’s still much more to be done, and if I’m Mayor I’ll do all in my power to further cut its use. Overuse of stop and search can have a dramatic effect on communities. It undermines public confidence in our police if Londoners are being stopped and searched for no good reason.” The Met dramatically reduced the number of random stop and searches in 2012 in an effort to improve relations with black and ethnic minority communities. 2015 prior to becoming mayor !
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 8, 2019 17:26:03 GMT
Apologies my bad, why did stop and search fall so dramatically was it down to the reduction in police numbers alone or is there another factor ? It was to stop the poor little darlings from feeling victimised It seems that it has turned them into victimisers and victims in some cases, well that went well
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 8, 2019 17:40:29 GMT
I wonder if part of our problems in our country are because we are locked into seeing things as party Political. Easily said but perhaps local ( in London, definable areas) communities should come together and be consulted/ decide on solutions ( true Political activism). It seems to me that on many issues party politicians don't know best and unfortunately we are forced into thinking that it's their way or " there's nothing that we can do". For my part, as a pragmatist, I would support as much stop and search as possible....if I was a black mother and my 18 year old son was going out in London I would not be particularly bothered if he , his friends and others were stopped and searched two or three times....I would not see it as the long term solution nor the only solution...
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 8, 2019 17:58:23 GMT
And when did knife crime start to rise 2015/16 after 3 years of falling not blaming that on the mayor but when trends change maybe you change the policies too although much easier to blame the government then admitting that maybe he could have done more also www.statista.com/statistics/864736/knife-crime-in-london/ That may be so, and I’m not even a big fan of Khan, but people saying he instigated the “dramatic fall” in stop and search numbers are incorrect. No that's true and fair enough, when all said and done London mayor is a glorified transport commissioner.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 8, 2019 18:01:40 GMT
Have criminals and bad guys suddenly become victims? Watching Question Time last night, guest after guest bemoaned lack of hope for the young, cutbacks to services etc.
While certain things may be factors in all this, aren't we getting away from the fact that they are murdering, vile bastards committing these crimes?
If this was white on black murder, and the whites had shitty backgrounds, would there be any sympathy shown towards the murderers? I doubt it very much.
We had similar sentiments when the Isis bride was in the news. Can't some people just be bad?
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Mar 8, 2019 18:09:37 GMT
Have criminals and bad guys suddenly become victims? Watching Question Time last night, guest after guest bemoaned lack of hope for the young, cutbacks to services etc. While certain things may be factors in all this, aren't we getting away from the fact that they are murdering, vile bastards committing these crimes? If this was white on black murder, and the whites had shitty backgrounds, would there be any sympathy shown towards the murderers? I doubt it very much. We had similar sentiments when the Isis bride was in the news. Can't some people just be bad? I must admit Tricky, that I'm getting really worried because a youth club near to me has been shut down..In fact I think I'll carry a knife and stab someone to death to make me feel better.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 8, 2019 18:13:03 GMT
Have criminals and bad guys suddenly become victims? Watching Question Time last night, guest after guest bemoaned lack of hope for the young, cutbacks to services etc. While certain things may be factors in all this, aren't we getting away from the fact that they are murdering, vile bastards committing these crimes? If this was white on black murder, and the whites had shitty backgrounds, would there be any sympathy shown towards the murderers? I doubt it very much. We had similar sentiments when the Isis bride was in the news. Can't some people just be bad? I must admit Tricky, that I'm getting really worried because a youth club near to me has been shut down..In fact I think I'll carry a knife and stab someone to death to make me feel better. A justifiable reaction! 😁
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 8, 2019 18:43:42 GMT
Apologies my bad, why did stop and search fall so dramatically was it down to the reduction in police numbers alone or is there another factor ? It was probably because the biggest force in the country carrying out the stop and searches was by its own admission institutionally racist.
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Post by felonious on Mar 8, 2019 19:22:57 GMT
Apologies my bad, why did stop and search fall so dramatically was it down to the reduction in police numbers alone or is there another factor ? It was probably because the biggest force in the country carrying out the stop and searches was by its own admission institutionally racist. So when this institutionally racist force were doing targeted stop and search on the target community, the BAME community there was less knife crime. They're not being stopped as much but they're now free to kill and main innocents and each other. Drugs are probably off the scale as well.
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Post by prettything on Mar 8, 2019 19:34:49 GMT
Stop and search wouldn’t affect the knife crime epidemic.
It’s a red herring at best.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 8, 2019 20:00:31 GMT
Apologies my bad, why did stop and search fall so dramatically was it down to the reduction in police numbers alone or is there another factor ? It was probably because the biggest force in the country carrying out the stop and searches was by its own admission institutionally racist. Are the other police forces where this happening where stop and search has reduced also institutionally racist as well ? or are they pandering to the PC brigade if so are the PC left wing tree huggers partly responsible for the rise in this crime explosion across the country.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 8, 2019 20:03:38 GMT
Stop and search wouldn’t affect the knife crime epidemic. It’s a red herring at best. The statistics suggest you are talking crap
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 8, 2019 20:21:31 GMT
I have to commend the Oatcake on it's sensible far right wing policies. The two main solutions on this board to soaring youth knife crime seem to be capital punishment and the restoration of racist Police forces! It's not hard to see where Tommy gets his dullard army from is it!
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 8, 2019 20:32:44 GMT
I have to commend the Oatcake on it's sensible far right wing policies. The two main solutions on this board to soaring youth knife crime seem to be capital punishment and the restoration of racist Police forces! It's not hard to see where Tommy gets his dullard army from is it! The easiest most sensible solution would be to target the groups who statistically carry out the majority knife crimes, is that a difficult answer to the problem or would you consider that to be racist or just plain forward common sense ? racist police forces surely a racist police service would not have a black police association or recruit from BME by using positive discrimination. You really must up your game now momo, what is your solution to this issue ?
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Post by felonious on Mar 8, 2019 20:42:29 GMT
Stop and search wouldn’t affect the knife crime epidemic. It’s a red herring at best. 300 targeted in a trial in Birmingham recently with 15% of the target population carrying knives. Those 15% can be dealt with now they are known to the police and the authorities and there is a warning out there to the rest of the population.
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Post by felonious on Mar 8, 2019 20:45:22 GMT
I have to commend the Oatcake on it's sensible far right wing policies. The two main solutions on this board to soaring youth knife crime seem to be capital punishment and the restoration of racist Police forces! It's not hard to see where Tommy gets his dullard army from is it! Tommy's thugs on one side and the Momentum bully boys on the other. What's the country coming to?
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Post by prettything on Mar 8, 2019 21:37:28 GMT
Stop and search wouldn’t affect the knife crime epidemic. It’s a red herring at best. The statistics suggest you are talking crap What statistics? You can’t stop and search every black man with a hoody. Following that tactic, will create division in that particular community. It has to be done at great roots to prevent and adjust that mentality, Parenting , schools, the cause and effect of such an action, will limit the harm.
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Post by prettything on Mar 8, 2019 21:40:01 GMT
Stop and search wouldn’t affect the knife crime epidemic. It’s a red herring at best. 300 targeted in a trial in Birmingham recently with 15% of the target population carrying knives. Those 15% can be dealt with now they are known to the police and the authorities and there is a warning out there to the rest of the population. And yet we had multiple stabbings in the last two weeks. ( I live in Brum)
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 8, 2019 22:00:19 GMT
The statistics suggest you are talking crap What statistics? You can’t stop and search every black man with a hoody. Following that tactic, will create division in that particular community. It has to be done at great roots to prevent and adjust that mentality, Parenting , schools, the cause and effect of such an action, will limit the harm. The Home office statistics , if this was an issue predominantly within the white community would there be an issue with targeted stop and search, would there be riots burning building, setting fire to cars, attacking the Police etc. ? if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck it is in all probability a duck, easiest way to stop this is to target the most likely proven risk area ! simple really duck, common sense if you like it isn't rocket science.
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Post by numpty40 on Mar 8, 2019 22:26:55 GMT
And when did knife crime start to rise 2015/16 after 3 years of falling not blaming that on the mayor but when trends change maybe you change the policies too although much easier to blame the government then admitting that maybe he could have done more also www.statista.com/statistics/864736/knife-crime-in-london/ Theresa May, as Home Secretary introduced new restrictions on Stop and Search powers in late 2014. What a fucking disaster this woman has been to this country.
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Post by prettything on Mar 8, 2019 22:40:36 GMT
What statistics? You can’t stop and search every black man with a hoody. Following that tactic, will create division in that particular community. It has to be done at great roots to prevent and adjust that mentality, Parenting , schools, the cause and effect of such an action, will limit the harm. The Home office statistics , if this was an issue predominantly within the white community would there be an issue with targeted stop and search, would there be riots burning building, setting fire to cars, attacking the Police etc. ? if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck it is in all probability a duck, easiest way to stop this is to target the most likely proven risk area ! simple really duck, common sense if you like it isn't rocket science. If the police stopped and searched white people, predominantly, absolutely, there would be outrage. I remember walking home from my mates house in Basford, after having a massive session on champ manager, at three in the morning, 19 years old. I got stopped and searched, and then after, the copper said “keep your nose clean, son”. I wanted to tell him to go fuck him self. Imagine if that happened to you constantly, just walking home from your mates house? Stop and search does more harm than good.
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Post by prettything on Mar 8, 2019 22:52:58 GMT
We are making excuses for the real issue, lack of funding from the ground up.
Working and spending resources within poorer communities has been proven to work .
It’s been working for years!
All of a sudden, when we have had cuts and lack of investment for years, we then see violent crime go up,and now we need to chop their fingers off and bring back hanging!
It’s an excuse, and a narrative, that’s an excuse for a lack of investment in the grass roots of communities and policing.
Don’t believe the hype.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Mar 8, 2019 23:34:28 GMT
The real issue with knife crime is drugs, gangs & territory. Anyone whose worked with 'disaffected' youth knows this.
Children who grow up with no rules or boundaries, who do what they like, when they like, with whom they like.
They don't like school so they don't go..or they go and piss about and ruin things for all the other children and get kicked out.
No moral background. No sense of personal responsibility. Don't give a fuck about anyone else.
And all we can do is understand.
😠
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Post by trickydicky73 on Mar 8, 2019 23:49:12 GMT
I remember a mate of mine lecturing me on crime, and saying "nothing will be solved until they get to the grass roots of the problem". He was all sympathy for poor kids. The next week someone broke into his car and stole his car stereo. Grass roots became "scummy bastards" very quickly.
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Post by salopstick on Mar 9, 2019 4:59:55 GMT
The real issue with knife crime is drugs, gangs & territory. Anyone whose worked with 'disaffected' youth knows this. Children who grow up with no rules or boundaries, who do what they like, when they like, with whom they like. They don't like school so they don't go..or they go and piss about and ruin things for all the other children and get kicked out. No moral background. No sense of personal responsibility. Don't give a fuck about anyone else. And all we can do is understand. 😠 Now I don’t believe in parental or any other abuse but when I was growing up if I did somthing really wrong I had a smack off my parents In school teachers had respect, even though illegal some teachers would get physical especially PE teachers with a dap but tbh you were slightly frighten of being shouted at etc You had respect for your elders,you called some friends of your parents especially older ones uncle or aunt and if needed they would command respect or shout at you You had respect or fear for the police because one of them bastards would drag you home by the ear You can talk about cutbacks all you want but this country has flipped where everything is on the side of the child regardless of how bad they are. Schools cannot do anything to the 6 year old little shit that tells teachers to fuck off. With out direction that 6 year old shot becomes a 11 year old shot disrupting lessons and other kids at school. The only powers the school has is to exclude them. Next thing they are a 16 year old little shit potentially on the scrap heap for life unless they get an epiphany. And the cycle starts again Kids get no discipline at home and parents are more likely to complain to the school than address their kids behaviour. I’m not advocating kicking fuck out of kids but bringing them up in a world with no responsibilities or discipline makes some of these little entitled snowflakes think they are untouchable and can do what they like Pandora’s box no going back I came from a scummy sinkhole estate when I joined the army the discipline wasn’t hard it was just a continuation of my life. Being from a shit hole sink estate doesn’t mean you have to resort to crime, drugs and knifes. It’s very easy to blame everything else and yes there are external factors but some people just choose to be cunts, choose the easy way because it’s too hard and not quick enough for them to walk the other way, put in some graft and succeed Is there a lack of options, in today’s world yes but those lack of options are not the root cause
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 7:13:10 GMT
The real issue with knife crime is drugs, gangs & territory. Anyone whose worked with 'disaffected' youth knows this. Children who grow up with no rules or boundaries, who do what they like, when they like, with whom they like. They don't like school so they don't go..or they go and piss about and ruin things for all the other children and get kicked out. No moral background. No sense of personal responsibility. Don't give a fuck about anyone else. And all we can do is understand. 😠 Now I don’t believe in parental or any other abuse but when I was growing up if I did somthing really wrong I had a smack off my parents In school teachers had respect, even though illegal some teachers would get physical especially PE teachers with a dap but tbh you were slightly frighten of being shouted at etc You had respect for your elders,you called some friends of your parents especially older ones uncle or aunt and if needed they would command respect or shout at you You had respect or fear for the police because one of them bastards would drag you home by the ear You can talk about cutbacks all you want but this country has flipped where everything is on the side of the child regardless of how bad they are. Schools cannot do anything to the 6 year old little shit that tells teachers to fuck off. With out direction that 6 year old shot becomes a 11 year old shot disrupting lessons and other kids at school. The only powers the school has is to exclude them. Next thing they are a 16 year old little shit potentially on the scrap heap for life unless they get an epiphany. And the cycle starts again Kids get no discipline at home and parents are more likely to complain to the school than address their kids behaviour. I’m not advocating kicking fuck out of kids but bringing them up in a world with no responsibilities or discipline makes some of these little entitled snowflakes think they are untouchable and can do what they like Pandora’s box no going back I came from a scummy sinkhole estate when I joined the army the discipline wasn’t hard it was just a continuation of my life. Being from a shit hole sink estate doesn’t mean you have to resort to crime, drugs and knifes. It’s very easy to blame everything else and yes there are external factors but some people just choose to be cunts, choose the easy way because it’s too hard and not quick enough for them to walk the other way, put in some graft and succeed Is there a lack of options, in today’s world yes but those lack of options are not the root cause Absolutely 100% spot on Salop ! I've been saying it for years, there's no discipline of any sort anymore at school or home, and as a result these kids have little or no respect for people or property. These young thugs are not frightened of any retribution the way we were when we were growing up. How the hell did we manage to survive after the odd clip round the ear from mum or dad, or the cane or ruler at school ? Discipline taught us respect for each other, people in general, property and possessions. Yes, there were still the "bad 'un's" who still regularly got into trouble, and a few were expelled, but nothing on the apparent scale of expulsions today. These kids think they're untouchable and then get dragged into gangs of similar minded yobs, and the cycle continues with drugs, violence and more stabbings, and sadly deaths. We need to re-institute the core values of discipline and respect, and if these bastards are offended, well never mind eh, at least the new mindset may just save a few lives down the line.
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