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Post by oslostokie1 on Feb 13, 2018 22:31:14 GMT
I reckon that for all his inconsistencies, there were 5-6 games in each of the last three seasons where he turned draws into victories or defeats into draws, accumulating an extra 10 points or so which we have not managed to replace. That haul would see us sitting pretty handsomely in mid-table, even this season. Teams like us only need one star to make all the difference in the extremely congested second half of the table, and he was ours. He's been carrying West Ham for months who otherwise would be no better than us.
Our predicament isn't that much down to the management or board in my view. Yes, they've made mistakes and would have done things differently with hindsight (eg. Berahino signing) but all clubs in the second half are having the same dim view of their own club's leaders. We could change them all several times but it would not progress us much in my view.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 13, 2018 22:40:43 GMT
Who replaced the player that carried our attack with a free and a dodgy loan?
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Post by zigazaga on Feb 13, 2018 22:47:06 GMT
Agreed..... he was second highest scorer and had the highest assists last season. It should have been obvious to the powers that be that we needed to replace him with proven quality in order to progress or even stand still. Instead they got 'Cheepo Moting' on a free and we are where we are. Talk about putting your heads in the sand. This club is run by absolute amateurs.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 13, 2018 23:15:45 GMT
Who replaced the player that carried our attack with a free and a dodgy loan? The 'free and dodgy loan' are costing us well in excess of £100K a week in wages! Whilst its fair to give the owners some deserved stick, the way Scholes, Cartwright and Hughes squandered the playing budget they had represents the bigger crime, I reckon. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 13, 2018 23:20:20 GMT
Who replaced the player that carried our attack with a free and a dodgy loan? The 'free and dodgy loan' are costing us well in excess of £100K a week in wages! Whilst its fair to give the owners some deserved stick, the way Scholes, Cartwright and Hughes squandered the playing budget they had represents the bigger crime, I reckon. Oh indeed and you're probably underestimating that there Momo. The Jese deal is the one I don't get. He was the replacement, the same mistake we did with Fonz and replacing him with a loan. Except with added baggage, bigger wages and a dodgy knee. Chopper is a good back up player for a club like ours. |
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Post by Gob Bluth on Feb 13, 2018 23:27:50 GMT
Not sure I agree with this. I think we've seen a steady decline in all our players over a period of time, add to that a lack of organisation and heart. The loss of Marco doesn't explain why Ryan, Jack, Pieters have all regressed over time. Our inability to replace Tony's central midfield hasn't helped either.
I do believe we have the players to turn a game but our other players haven't been delivering. I'd point to our goals conceded to back this up and I think it's the reason we're down, we don't seem capable of withstanding strong pressure. We still have to face some formidable teams and it's a shame our lasting memory could be one that isn't reflective of our 10 years in this league.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 23:28:37 GMT
The 'free and dodgy loan' are costing us well in excess of £100K a week in wages! Whilst its fair to give the owners some deserved stick, the way Scholes, Cartwright and Hughes squandered the playing budget they had represents the bigger crime, I reckon. Oh indeed and you're probably underestimating that there Momo. The Jese deal is the one I don't get. He was the replacement, the same mistake we did with Fonz and replacing him with a loan. Except with added baggage, bigger wages and a dodgy knee. Chopper is a good back up player for a club like ours. It's the lack of due diligence that pisses me off. Imbula, Bojan, Wimmer, Berahino, Jese all had reasons why they had not performed at previous clubs. Reasons, that with a bit of digging, were easy enough to find out. We either didn't care, or didn't care to look and I fear it was the latter. It's amateurish at best, sheer incompetence at worst. |
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 13, 2018 23:28:39 GMT
The 'free and dodgy loan' are costing us well in excess of £100K a week in wages! Whilst its fair to give the owners some deserved stick, the way Scholes, Cartwright and Hughes squandered the playing budget they had represents the bigger crime, I reckon. Oh indeed and you're probably underestimating that there Momo. The Jese deal is the one I don't get. He was the replacement, the same mistake we did with Fonz and replacing him with a loan. Except with added baggage, bigger wages and a dodgy knee. Chopper is a good back up player for a club like ours. I agree mate but I'm fairly sure Moting himself is on £65K a week. I think Coates would have expected the real deal for that money and don't lets get started on Berahino's 80K a week, the two £50k a week players out on loan or the £17M man on 70K a week who cant get into the matchday squad!  . There's no doubt that arrogance all round has led us to where we are but the budget we have had, particularly at the top end has been completely pissed up the wall and two of the three people responsible are still very much in situ, which is preposterous. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 13, 2018 23:29:59 GMT
Not sure I agree with this. I think we've seen a steady decline in all our players over a period of time, add to that a lack of organisation and heart. The loss of Marco doesn't explain why Ryan, Jack, Pieters have all regressed over time. Our inability to replace Tony's central midfield hasn't helped either. I do believe we have the players to turn a game but our other players haven't been delivering. I'd point to our goals conceded to back this up and I think it's the reason we're down, we don't seem capable of withstanding strong pressure. We still have to face some formidable teams and it's a shame our lasting memory could be one that isn't reflective of our 10 years in this league. Begovic played in Hughes' first two seasons didn't he? Maybe Butland hasn't regressed? Shawcross has just got more injury prone. Pieters was hung out to dry. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 13, 2018 23:31:31 GMT
Oh indeed and you're probably underestimating that there Momo. The Jese deal is the one I don't get. He was the replacement, the same mistake we did with Fonz and replacing him with a loan. Except with added baggage, bigger wages and a dodgy knee. Chopper is a good back up player for a club like ours. I agree mate but I'm fairly sure Moting himself is on £65K a week. I think Coates would have expected the real deal for that money and don't lets get started on Berahino's 80K a week, the two £50k a week players out on loan or the £17M man on 70K a week who cant get into the matchday squad! . There's no doubt that arrogance all round has led us to where we are but the budget we have had, particularly at the top end has been completely pissed up the wall and two of the three people responsible are still very much in situ, which is preposterous. That's what I meant! I reckon for the two it's closer to 120k a week than 100k. Which is mental. |
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Post by 1982stokie on Feb 13, 2018 23:33:21 GMT
Absolutely he was our main drive going forward, his touch and ability to control and hold up the ball were top class.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 13, 2018 23:40:26 GMT
Oh indeed and you're probably underestimating that there Momo. The Jese deal is the one I don't get. He was the replacement, the same mistake we did with Fonz and replacing him with a loan. Except with added baggage, bigger wages and a dodgy knee. Chopper is a good back up player for a club like ours. It's the lack of due diligence that pisses me off. Imbula, Bojan, Wimmer, Berahino, Jese all had reasons why they had not performed at previous clubs. Reasons, that with a bit of digging, were easy enough to find out. We either didn't care, or didn't care to look and I fear it was the latter. It's amateurish at best, sheer incompetence at worst. Don't put Bojan in that group mate. Injury. Bad luck. You can't legislate for that. |
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Post by Gods on Feb 13, 2018 23:43:14 GMT
Yes, the loss of Arnie was a crushing blow, everyone knew it would be whether they were prepared to admit or not, the coup de grace, a dagger straight to the heart  |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 13, 2018 23:49:18 GMT
It's the lack of due diligence that pisses me off. Imbula, Bojan, Wimmer, Berahino, Jese all had reasons why they had not performed at previous clubs. Reasons, that with a bit of digging, were easy enough to find out. We either didn't care, or didn't care to look and I fear it was the latter. It's amateurish at best, sheer incompetence at worst. Don't put Bojan in that group mate. Injury. Bad luck. You can't legislate for that. Disagree. It's been standard Bojan. Start well and then fade and then kick off. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 23:49:59 GMT
there was plenty we could've done to placate the loss of Arnie though.
Play a formation with some central creativity (4231)
Buy a defensive midfielder to help the defence and get a better base to attack from
Not loan out our only number 10 and sign no replacement
Buy wingbacks if we're going the 343 route
Spend bigger on a proper replacement for Arnie
Sign a striker
Not start Crouch for several matcher
Not start without a striker for several other matches where we should be playing on the front foot
Basically we ended last season playing a 433 that didn't create anything, and this season we've massively downgraded one of the 2 creative players in that team and expected it to work magically.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 14, 2018 0:03:12 GMT
there was plenty we could've done to placate the loss of Arnie though. Play a formation with some central creativity (4231) Buy a defensive midfielder to help the defence and get a better base to attack from Not loan out our only number 10 and sign no replacement Buy wingbacks if we're going the 343 route Spend bigger on a proper replacement for Arnie Sign a striker Not start Crouch for several matcher Not start without a striker for several other matches where we should be playing on the front foot Basically we ended last season playing a 433 that didn't create anything, and this season we've massively downgraded one of the 2 creative players in that team and expected it to work magically. How can you have only 2 creative players in your team? That's laughable. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 0:15:50 GMT
there was plenty we could've done to placate the loss of Arnie though. Play a formation with some central creativity (4231) Buy a defensive midfielder to help the defence and get a better base to attack from Not loan out our only number 10 and sign no replacement Buy wingbacks if we're going the 343 route Spend bigger on a proper replacement for Arnie Sign a striker Not start Crouch for several matcher Not start without a striker for several other matches where we should be playing on the front foot Basically we ended last season playing a 433 that didn't create anything, and this season we've massively downgraded one of the 2 creative players in that team and expected it to work magically. How can you have only 2 creative players in your team? That's laughable. Exactly, we only have one on the pitch when Choupo isn't playing well (not an irregular occurrence this season) |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Feb 14, 2018 0:54:28 GMT
Shaqiri has been popping up a fair bit this season. I don't think losing Arnautovic has been the main difference. We haven't played as a team, and most players have performed below the standards they're more than capable of. Imbula, Bojan, Wimmer, Berahino, Jese all had reasons why they had not performed at previous clubs. Reasons, that with a bit of digging, were easy enough to find out. We either didn't care, or didn't care to look and I fear it was the latter. It's amateurish at best, sheer incompetence at worst. So did Etherington, Walters, Pennant and the subject of this thread. And I wouldn't include Bojan in your list. |
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Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 14, 2018 1:18:57 GMT
Shaqiri has been popping up a fair bit this season. I don't think losing Arnautovic has been the main difference. We haven't played as a team, and most players have performed below the standards they're more than capable of. Imbula, Bojan, Wimmer, Berahino, Jese all had reasons why they had not performed at previous clubs. Reasons, that with a bit of digging, were easy enough to find out. We either didn't care, or didn't care to look and I fear it was the latter. It's amateurish at best, sheer incompetence at worst. So did Etherington, Walters, Pennant and the subject of this thread. And I wouldn't include Bojan in your list. I think you are right about our problems going deeper than losing Arnie, but I also think we would have stayed up comfortably if he was still here. He carried our attack like N'Zonzi carried our midfield. Hoping somebody steps up and helps Shaqiri out because he can't do it all on his own. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 3:17:49 GMT
The thinking might have been that we had a very promising prospect in Ramadan and that he would add to his game and become influential in the team. But neither under Hughes nor Lambert has he featured much, it's mostly been cameos. He finally scored a couple of goals a few weeks ago, but still he sometimes doesn't even make the bench.
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Post by smallthorner on Feb 14, 2018 6:54:16 GMT
Don't put Bojan in that group mate. Injury. Bad luck. You can't legislate for that. Disagree. It's been standard Bojan. Start well and then fade and then kick off. What. Standard that he gets injured? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 7:09:14 GMT
We're a better team without him.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 14, 2018 7:18:12 GMT
Oh indeed and you're probably underestimating that there Momo. The Jese deal is the one I don't get. He was the replacement, the same mistake we did with Fonz and replacing him with a loan. Except with added baggage, bigger wages and a dodgy knee. Chopper is a good back up player for a club like ours. It's the lack of due diligence that pisses me off. Imbula, Bojan, Wimmer, Berahino, Jese all had reasons why they had not performed at previous clubs. Reasons, that with a bit of digging, were easy enough to find out. We either didn't care, or didn't care to look and I fear it was the latter. It's amateurish at best, sheer incompetence at worst. Bojan was a brilliant signing and still would be had he not suffered his horrific injury! |
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Post by malteser68 on Feb 14, 2018 7:25:36 GMT
I reckon that for all his inconsistencies, there were 5-6 games in each of the last three seasons where he turned draws into victories or defeats into draws, accumulating an extra 10 points or so which we have not managed to replace. That haul would see us sitting pretty handsomely in mid-table, even this season. Teams like us only need one star to make all the difference in the extremely congested second half of the table, and he was ours. He's been carrying West Ham for months who otherwise would be no better than us. Our predicament isn't that much down to the management or board in my view. Yes, they've made mistakes and would have done things differently with hindsight (eg. Berahino signing) but all clubs in the second half are having the same dim view of their own club's leaders. We could change them all several times but it would not progress us much in my view. Fully in agreement with the first paragraph Completely in disagreement with the second one |
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Post by stantheman on Feb 14, 2018 7:35:27 GMT
We're a better team without him. Unfortunately the league table says otherwise. |
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Post by Veritas on Feb 14, 2018 7:41:59 GMT
I reckon that for all his inconsistencies, there were 5-6 games in each of the last three seasons where he turned draws into victories or defeats into draws, accumulating an extra 10 points or so which we have not managed to replace. That haul would see us sitting pretty handsomely in mid-table, even this season. Teams like us only need one star to make all the difference in the extremely congested second half of the table, and he was ours. He's been carrying West Ham for months who otherwise would be no better than us. Our predicament isn't that much down to the management or board in my view. Yes, they've made mistakes and would have done things differently with hindsight (eg. Berahino signing) but all clubs in the second half are having the same dim view of their own club's leaders. We could change them all several times but it would not progress us much in my view. Arnie was here last year when we were already shipping too many goals and showing all the squad frailties that have been exposed even more so this year. Arnie's departure has been a problem but the set up and personnel in defence and central midfield have been the key issues. We haven't been creative enough going forward but it has been the ease and frequency with which consede that has got us in the current hole we find ourselves in. |
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Post by oslostokie1 on Feb 14, 2018 7:59:27 GMT
Who replaced the player that carried our attack with a free and a dodgy loan? Who would you have signed with the £25m who was available and who would come to Stoke? Arnie was damaged goods before he cane to us like Jese, Bojan, Imbula, etc, players who we are forced to gamble on in order to take us to that next level. Unsullied goods would not give us a second look |
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Post by oslostokie1 on Feb 14, 2018 8:00:31 GMT
We're a better team without him. Are you serious? The league table would suggest otherwise |
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Post by pez75 on Feb 14, 2018 9:25:54 GMT
Shaq is as good if not better than Arnie, but he cannot perform consistently stuck out on the wing.
Play him in his proper position FFS!
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Feb 14, 2018 9:31:55 GMT
Time to dispel this 1 in 6 myth. He was much better than that.
And even if it was the case he only had 1 good game in 6, then those other 5 he was still contributing on average a lot more than the players we have now.
Some seem to make out that players are crap when we leave. No need to be bitter about it.
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