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Post by thegift on Jan 15, 2018 1:05:55 GMT
EVERYONE OUT
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Post by march4 on Jan 15, 2018 1:19:06 GMT
Its very easy to blame him. I wonder why!
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Post by professorplump on Jan 15, 2018 2:06:15 GMT
Scholes is just a convenient target for the fans frustration. No one on here really knows how much he is to blame for what's happened. The real problem is Peter Coates. We aspire to be a forward thinking progressive club but our chairman is stuck in a past decade. I thank him for what he has done but now is the time for him to stand down as chairman in favour of his son.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 3:11:50 GMT
now is the time for him to stand down as chairman in favour of his son. Why would that change anything? John is responsible for at least one of the failures to appoint a new manager, and for most other decisions he's been with PC on the board. It's just been the old man who was the public face who did interviews. Although the future obviously sits with John.
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Post by scfcrmagic on Jan 15, 2018 4:29:19 GMT
You have got to question the negotiation skills of whomever is involved in this monumental fiasco... surely interested parties made it known to the club ? .*someone senior in the club arranges to interview them * we narrow it down to top 3. * we offer the job to our number 1 choice * if they accept ...happy days we seal the deal ..sign contract * we announce to all, whom the new manager is blah blah blah
You don’t tell everyone who you’ve chosen, in case they don’t sign or else you could look like a proper Charlie
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Post by thevoid on Jan 15, 2018 4:32:46 GMT
Scholes is PC's patsy, just like Hughes before him, and Moxey during his first reign. Only one man to blame.
Coates Out.
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Post by 3putts on Jan 15, 2018 4:39:39 GMT
moan moan moan. scholes job is to get the best deal for scfc.if a manager is not confident enough in his ability to keep us up and is worried about having to accept a smaller wage in the championship, then he is not the manager for us.
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Post by scfcrmagic on Jan 15, 2018 4:39:51 GMT
Scholes is PC's patsy, just like Hughes before him, and Moxey during his first reign. Only one man to blame. Coates Out. I read that wrong ...must be the lack of me reading goggles ...thought you were calling Scholes, PC’s ..Pastry....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2018 6:50:34 GMT
You have got to question the negotiation skills of whomever is involved in this monumental fiasco... surely interested parties made it known to the club ? .*someone senior in the club arranges to interview them * we narrow it down to top 3. * we offer the job to our number 1 choice * if they accept ...happy days we seal the deal ..sign contract * we announce to all, whom the new manager is blah blah blah You don’t tell everyone who you’ve chosen, in case they don’t sign or else you could look like a proper Charlie I agree that for numerous reasons we do seem to repeatedly have serious difficulties in closing player transfers and now we appear to be incapable of finding a replacement manager. There has to be a common factor which prevents us from closing these signings. However I haven't seen any official statement from the club about any manager that they are supposedly interested in. All the news stories appear to emanate from elsewhere or are just journos filling column inches. I think the club have tried to do this discreetly but leaks from other parties have made this impossible and put our negotiating shortcomings and inadequacies firmly in the publuc eye. Either way it's a real fiasco and needs sorting with some surprise manager (NOT Lambert, Schteeve, or 'Arry) as soon as possible although I now think it's too late for whoever comes in to save us this season. We're doomed I tell ya, doomed !
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Post by itsajoytobeapotter on Jan 15, 2018 7:00:29 GMT
You have got to question the negotiation skills of whomever is involved in this monumental fiasco... surely interested parties made it known to the club ? .*someone senior in the club arranges to interview them * we narrow it down to top 3. * we offer the job to our number 1 choice * if they accept ...happy days we seal the deal ..sign contract * we announce to all, whom the new manager is blah blah blah You don’t tell everyone who you’ve chosen, in case they don’t sign or else you could look like a proper Charlie I agree that for numerous reasons we do seem to repeatedly have serious difficulties in closing player transfers and now we appear to be incapable of finding a replacement manager. There has to be a common factor which prevents us from closing these signings. However I haven't seen any official statement from the club about any manager that they are supposedly interested in. All the news stories appear to emanate from elsewhere or are just journos filling column inches. I think the club have tried to do this discreetly but leaks from other parties have made this impossible and put our negotiating shortcomings and inadequacies firmly in the publuc eye. Either way it's a real fiasco and needs sorting with some surprise manager (NOT Lambert, Schteeve, or 'Arry) as soon as possible although I now think it's too late for whoever comes in to save us this season. We're doomed I tell ya, doomed ! But someone at the club leaks things to Percy, Nixon and the Sentinel and I know who my money is on!
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Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Jan 15, 2018 7:47:30 GMT
And is there something at the club that three potential managers have all seen as too big a risk? Not enough transfer money? Not final say in transfers? It’s got to be something...
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jan 15, 2018 7:54:24 GMT
One of the main reasons we have been left behind over the last 2 years is our repeated negotiation failures - players and staff. It’s a farce. Rowett, Shancez, O’Neill. Makes you wonder what our management team do to put them off. Plus add in Hughes’ ability to turn promise (Imbula, Sobhi, Berahino) into loaned out failures and we have a perfect storm. We never even interviewed Rowett as far as I am aware?
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 15, 2018 8:10:36 GMT
We seem to be crap from top to bottom. I bet even the Tea lady makes a lousy cup of tea.
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Post by doitforfrank on Jan 15, 2018 8:10:49 GMT
And is there something at the club that three potential managers have all seen as too big a risk? Not enough transfer money? Not final say in transfers?It’s got to be something... This and its Cartwright making the bad decisions.
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Post by Danstoke82 on Jan 15, 2018 8:19:21 GMT
Scholes is just a convenient target for the fans frustration. No one on here really knows how much he is to blame for what's happened. The real problem is Peter Coates. We aspire to be a forward thinking progressive club but our chairman is stuck in a past decade. I thank him for what he has done but now is the time for him to stand down as chairman in favour of his son. Absolutely bang on this!
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Post by nott1 on Jan 15, 2018 8:21:13 GMT
First it was Hughes out (oh look where that got us) now it's TS, give it a feckin rest "fans".
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Post by Danstoke82 on Jan 15, 2018 8:22:28 GMT
The fact that Coates Snr is looking at a list that consists of Paul Lambert, Steve McClaren and whatever other failure is out there shows exactly where the problem is.
Im sure he's probably sounded out Joe Kinnear as well due to the astonishing job he did on a shoestring budget with Wimbledon back in the early 90's.
Coates is the problem here, he's prehistoric and doesn't seem to be in touch with the modern game. No manager is going to come here with the promise of a reduced salary should we go down but Id imagine that Coates thinks its a reasonable offer.
Coates Jnr needs to step up here and save this club before its too late (it already might be). His Dad is taking us down and undoing all the hard work we achieved in getting to this point.
PLEASE JOHN SAVE THIS CLUB FROM YOUR FATHER!!.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jan 15, 2018 8:43:31 GMT
First it was Hughes out (oh look where that got us) now it's TS, give it a feckin rest "fans". It was neve Hughes it was always scholes and I warned you time after time
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Jan 15, 2018 10:08:29 GMT
Theres been too many occasions where we lost targets (players and now managers) at the last minute.
Scholes is certainly a part of the problem
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jan 15, 2018 10:15:34 GMT
You have got to question the negotiation skills of whomever is involved in this monumental fiasco... surely interested parties made it known to the club ? .*someone senior in the club arranges to interview them * we narrow it down to top 3. * we offer the job to our number 1 choice * if they accept ...happy days we seal the deal ..sign contract * we announce to all, whom the new manager is blah blah blah You don’t tell everyone who you’ve chosen, in case they don’t sign or else you could look like a proper Charlie I agree that for numerous reasons we do seem to repeatedly have serious difficulties in closing player transfers and now we appear to be incapable of finding a replacement manager. There has to be a common factor which prevents us from closing these signings. However I haven't seen any official statement from the club about any manager that they are supposedly interested in. All the news stories appear to emanate from elsewhere or are just journos filling column inches. I think the club have tried to do this discreetly but leaks from other parties have made this impossible and put our negotiating shortcomings and inadequacies firmly in the publuc eye. Either way it's a real fiasco and needs sorting with some surprise manager (NOT Lambert, Schteeve, or 'Arry) as soon as possible although I now think it's too late for whoever comes in to save us this season. We're doomed I tell ya, doomed ! There does seem to be an inability to keep any negotiations under wraps which means that all our failures are exposed in the glare of publicity. Wasn't Pardew something like 7th choice at the Baggies but I don't remember the preceding 6 rebuffs being splashed across the national papers. Having said that Pardew does smack of a Paul Lambert barrel scraping signing. It doesn't mean it's entirely our fault, the number of agents and hangers on with conflicting interests make it almost impossible to keep under wraps, but you do wonder when our backroom staff get stiffed time and again as far back as Remy and probably further. If West Brom can conduct their business professionally and in private why can't we.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jan 15, 2018 10:31:32 GMT
First it was Hughes out (oh look where that got us) now it's TS, give it a feckin rest "fans". It was neve Hughes it was always scholes and I warned you time after time It wasn't entirely Scholes and was partly Hughes though. You have been right about Scholes but I don't think anyone has ever argued with you on that. But to say Hughes was not at fault is plain wrong. Whilst Scholes might have helped shape the quality and quantity of player brought in it was Hughes who devised the tactics , the formation and the players to play in those positions and the substitutes to replace them during a game. We all know and a lot of us said that Hughes should have been replaced in the summer and it was simply gross negligence by The Coates' and Scholes to fail to do so. But perhaps the events of the last week were something that was in their mind back then. On the surface we were a very attractive proposition but once our shambolic and outmoded core was exposed in any interview process would we have ended up being repeatedly snubbed then as we have now by managers with any nous. Perhaps Mark Hughes was right 'who else would do the job'? Is that why we seem to have settled on a desperate man who won't turn us down no matter how many 'clauses' we insert in his contract as I'm sure we did with Hughes. We can only hope that they get as lucky with this cheap punt as they did with the last.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 15, 2018 13:58:41 GMT
It was neve Hughes it was always scholes and I warned you time after time You have been right about Scholes but I don't think anyone has ever argued with you on that. I did, higher up this thread.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Jan 15, 2018 14:07:50 GMT
You have been right about Scholes but I don't think anyone has ever argued with you on that. I did, higher up this thread. I take it you believe Scholes has conducted his duties as instructed then? So the culpability for any poor performance lies with those instructing him?
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 15, 2018 14:15:39 GMT
Can he really keep his job, are the family that oblivious to the last 6 months of his incompetance, who next, Dario ? Give me some proof, what has he done wrong over those last 6 months?
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 15, 2018 14:22:15 GMT
I did, higher up this thread. I take it you believe Scholes has conducted his duties as instructed then? So the culpability for any poor performance lies with those instructing him? I've nothing really to add to what I said on this in my various posts above, both the long one and those replying to Benjamin and Bayern. But what's done is done and we are where we are. We now have a new manager and a big immediate relegation battle on our hands, and I'm looking forward to seeing what team and formation Eddie puts out tonight, and the new manager on Saturday, and cheering it on.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 15, 2018 14:29:01 GMT
Personally I have a rule in football - indeed in life generally - not to take strong positions unless you are both sure of all the facts, and sure of the outcome you are trying to achieve i.e whether that outcome will actually be helped by what you say, and the way that you say it. I may be in a minority on here - possibly even a minority of one - but I think that as well as the large amount of personal abuse in this thread, which on a public message board may well be counter-productive, there is a distinct lack of evidence in support of many of the things which are being said about the Stoke CEO. I don't think that anyone on here knows even a fraction of the truth about what has gone on with the negotiations with our managerial targets.One thing seems clear namely that the Flores negotiations were a complex matter involving not just salary and length of contract, but a move of country; the employment of other staff; personal family circumstances; contract compensation etc etc etc. I have seen no evidence to support, let alone prove, that the breakdown was entirely, or even in part, the fault of the CEO. It might have been, but it might not have been. None of us know. I think that Bayern's assumption that he because he is the CEO and a Director, that he had the authority to seal the deal, is, with respect, naive. He will have had the authority given to him by the Chairman on behalf of the owners. No less but certainly no more than that. That's where the power lies and that's how it works. In any case, if for whatever reason, the other party change their mind on whether they want a deal, all the authority in the world won't help you. Similarly with the comments about unspecified 'countless other examples' of failure to get deals over the line. Most prospective player deals also involve complex financial and contract negotiations with agents having a central role and usually strong competition with other clubs. I think nearly all clubs only land a minority of their targets. Is our record really that bad ? Certainly there have been some recent poor outcomes, Imbulla being perhaps the most spectacular example. Wimmer looks over-priced, but IMO is not nearly as poor as some claim; Jesse didn't work out, neither so far has Berahino, although if you recall many were praising his acquisition at the time. But in fairness criticism of the failures has to be balanced by the successes in getting very good players here. When Arnie, Shaq and Bojan were destroying Man City was the club's recruitment team being praised ? It isn't the CEO's fault that Arnie walked. Bojan's scintillating form was ruined by his injury. Supporters of other clubs ask me how on earth Stoke have managed to get as good a player as Shaq. N'Zonzi, Butland, Allen, Chupo, Ramandan are all IMO other examples of good captures. In short, I think it's a mixed picture, as I think it is at most PL clubs - the difference being that we don't tend to notice the transfer failures of other clubs because they aren't visible. I have never met Mark Cartwright, let alone looked at how he and his team do their job, so I can't comment on how good he is or isn't. One thing I am sure of is that the CEO is not involved in the football judgements on players. I have met Tony Scholes and have negotiated/discussed non-on-field matters with him. I can only take as I have found, and I have found him to be clear in his positions but willing to listen, and supportive on many issue which have been important to supporters, even though we have disagreed on some issues. For example, I know that he has been a consistent leading advocate at PL meetings for using PL money to help away fans, and we had first the away fans initiative, and our free coach travel which the club have continued after the initaive was replaced by the £30 away ticket cap across the Board, which TS and Stoke City supported. And of course we have had a 10-year freeze on home prices under his tenure. I am not in a position to comment on what he's like to work for. As for the club being a shambles under its present ownership and leadership, I think being involved in the national supporters movement gives me a wider perspective, but if you want to understand what bad ownership and leadership is really like, I'll introduce you to fans of Blackpool, Blackburn, Leeds, Coventry, Charlton, Hull, Pompey, Wimbledon, Leyton etc etc etc etc We have local ownership with a local Chairman who is a lifelong supporter, understands english football and is widely respected within it as I know from the FA Council. Do not underestimate the value of those things. If the Coates family sold up and we had foreign ownership and a new CEO, for example I personally wouldn't put any money on our current pricing levels continuing. The margins in the PL are incredibly small. If the 20 richest people in the world poured their wealth into the 20 PL clubs, and appointed the 20 best managers in the world, 3 of them would still be relegated and 1 would still come bottom. There are 19 other clubs, sets of supporters, owners, and managers who want the same as we do. It's tough and it's hard. We're not in a good place tonight but in my view that's all the more reason for us to stick together and support the team, starting on Monday, and the new manager whoever he is. We can get out of this. Come on Stoke ! So as you say then, he had the power to seal it, excellent. After all that, that's all you could come up with I think you're short a few straws mate.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 15, 2018 14:42:14 GMT
So as you say then, he had the power to seal it, excellent. After all that, that's all you could come up with I think you're short a few straws mate. It's more polite than replying with "what bollocks" isn't it?
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Post by bringmesunshine on Jan 15, 2018 14:45:39 GMT
Can he really keep his job, are the family that oblivious to the last 6 months of his incompetance, who next, Dario ? Give me some proof, what has he done wrong over those last 6 months? 6 months ago to anybody with a brain it was obvious we had gone backwards and that we would be heading towards relegation if things didn't change, the supporters could see it so why couldn't Scholes, a competent CEO would have succession planned and chosen a number of managers to be a short listed IRRESPECTIVE OF THE OWNERS WISHES BECAUSE ITS PRUDENT TO DO SO especially when other clubs were reacting to bad results and appointing replacement managers that we might have been considering, he has spent the last 10 days presiding over a circus that has resulted in us looking like complete fools to the entire footballing world by appointing our 5th or 6th choice out of desperation, then there is the repeated fiasco of the clubs transfer dealings for which he is at least partially to blame.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 15, 2018 14:46:11 GMT
Give me some proof, what has he done wrong over those last 6 months? 6 months ago to anybody with a brain it was obvious we had gone backwards and that we would be heading towards relegation if things didn't change, the supporters could see it so why couldn't Scholes, a competent CEO would have succession planned and chosen a number of managers to be a short listed IRRESPECTIVE OF THE OWNERS WISHES BECAUSE ITS PRUDENT TO DO SO especially when other clubs were reacting to bad results and appointing replacement managers that we might have been considering, he has spent the last 10 days presiding over a circus that has resulted in us looking like complete fools to the entire footballing world by appointing our 5th or 6th choice out of desperation, then there is the repeated fiasco of the clubs transfer dealings for which he is at least partially to blame. So no proof then.
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Post by salopstick on Jan 15, 2018 14:46:17 GMT
What this sorry episode will have told John Coates is that major behind the scenes changes will be required in the summer
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