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Post by alster on Nov 29, 2017 11:33:38 GMT
You have to go back nearly two years to find our last decent run of form and its become far worse to watch too. Its not just the results the football is tripe as well. Almost a year to the day we beat Burnley at home which was a run of 1 defeat in 9 (18 points). So that’s simply not true..... I remember it, game management mode for over an hour very similar to a 1-0 win against Watford sent you home thinking well at least it didn't blow up in his face this time another pretty horrible boring performance with no feelgood factor other than 3 pts that is what it has become under him.
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Post by OldStokie on Nov 29, 2017 11:45:44 GMT
The fact that people are throwing Pulis's name around suggests that they have as little clue how to stop the rot as Hughes does. Coates needs to be bold and there is no evidence from the past that he will be. So cry scream and piss as much as you need to but Hughes is here for at least another few months. H And by that time, H, we could be top half and doing okay. The league is so tight that a run of decent results could see us vying to get into Europe. Always look on the bright side of things. I dunner give a fuck as long as Toxic is kept at bay. OS.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 11:52:38 GMT
Almost a year to the day we beat Burnley at home which was a run of 1 defeat in 9 (18 points). So that’s simply not true..... I remember it, game management mode for over an hour very similar to a 1-0 win against Watford sent you home thinking well at least it didn't blow up in his face this time another pretty horrible boring performance with no feelgood factor other than 3 pts that is what it has become under him. That wasn't what you said though, you said you have to go back nearly two years for a decent run of form and I'm simply saying you don't have to......
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Post by skip on Nov 29, 2017 12:13:56 GMT
I think if he can help the defence sort out their weaknesses and replace Diof at right wing back with a proper one, I think we'll be ok.
A related observation that isn't aimed at Hughes Out fans any more than Everton fans, Spurs or ruddy Plymouth Argyle for all I know, is, don't we all sound rather entitled? I want to be entertained week in week out? I await the snort and retort of people accusing me of sounding like Pulis with his too-used-to-steak analogy or the equally cringeworthy Alan Durban circus comments, but there does come a point when I think that as fans we're supposed to support our team and maybe, just maybe, affectations of grandeur have led some of us to want us be thrilled. Have we forgotten that supporting a football team is an act of love and attrition? I don't expect to get a semi-on watching Stoke but I do expect a well drilled team to give it their best shot. At least Hughes attempts to win matches, whereas our most recent manager attempted not to lose. Given there's not much to choose between their success statistically speaking, I'll stick with Hughes. Just for now.
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Post by leoncort on Nov 29, 2017 12:16:47 GMT
He wont turn it around without a striker Life in the prem is very difficult if you dont have a goalscorer If he signed a 15 to 20 goal a season striker that would change everything To be honest, is previous attempts at this have been abysmal and there is even evidence that if he was close to finding one, he would play the lad at right back! I think sparky is on his way The only thing that can save him is to sign a 2017 james beattie, but I dont think he knows how?? You can sign a 15-20 goal a season striker all you want, but if you're conceding 2 goals a game you're still getting relegated.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 29, 2017 12:20:12 GMT
I think if he can help the defence sort out their weaknesses and replace Diof at right wing back with a proper one, I think we'll be ok. A related observation that isn't aimed at Hughes Out fans any more than Everton fans, Spurs or ruddy Plymouth Argyle for all I know, is, don't we all sound rather entitled? I want to be entertained week in week out? I await the snort and retort of people accusing me of sounding like Pulis with his too-used-to-steak analogy or the equally cringeworthy Alan Durban circus comments, but there does come a point when I think that as fans we're supposed to support our team and maybe, just maybe, affectations of grandeur have led some of us to want us be thrilled. Have we forgotten that supporting a football team is an act of love and attrition? I don't expect to get a semi-on watching Stoke but I do expect a well drilled team to give it their best shot. At least Hughes attempts to win matches, whereas our most recent manager attempted not to lose. Given there's not much to choose between their success statistically speaking, I'll stick with Hughes. Just for now. I think it’s the regression that torpedoes that particular argument to be honest Skip. We know we’re capable of better and we’ve really cocked things up and look a long way from where we were two years ago. We can’t play like a Rinus Michels team every week, but surely to God we’ve seen Stoke teams in recent years play more assured, competent football than this, and much like his predecessor, the manager seems to have lost sight of what made that work and is chasing his tail to try and find something that does.
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Post by alster on Nov 29, 2017 12:24:49 GMT
I remember it, game management mode for over an hour very similar to a 1-0 win against Watford sent you home thinking well at least it didn't blow up in his face this time another pretty horrible boring performance with no feelgood factor other than 3 pts that is what it has become under him. That wasn't what you said though, you said you have to go back nearly two years for a decent run of form and I'm simply saying you don't have to...... Maybe form was the wrong choice of words its approaching two years since I really enjoyed the way we play I really don't think I've been impressed with a whole game since.
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Post by skip on Nov 29, 2017 12:29:36 GMT
I think if he can help the defence sort out their weaknesses and replace Diof at right wing back with a proper one, I think we'll be ok. A related observation that isn't aimed at Hughes Out fans any more than Everton fans, Spurs or ruddy Plymouth Argyle for all I know, is, don't we all sound rather entitled? I want to be entertained week in week out? I await the snort and retort of people accusing me of sounding like Pulis with his too-used-to-steak analogy or the equally cringeworthy Alan Durban circus comments, but there does come a point when I think that as fans we're supposed to support our team and maybe, just maybe, affectations of grandeur have led some of us to want us be thrilled. Have we forgotten that supporting a football team is an act of love and attrition? I don't expect to get a semi-on watching Stoke but I do expect a well drilled team to give it their best shot. At least Hughes attempts to win matches, whereas our most recent manager attempted not to lose. Given there's not much to choose between their success statistically speaking, I'll stick with Hughes. Just for now. I think it’s the regression that torpedoes that particular argument to be honest Skip. We know we’re capable of better and we’ve really cocked things up and look a long way from where we were two years ago. We can’t play like a Rinus Michels team every week, but surely to God we’ve seen Stoke teams in recent years play more assured, competent football than this, and much like his predecessor, the manager seems to have lost sight of what made that work and is chasing his tail to try and find something that does. I don't dispute we've regressed. The whole argument is whether the architect of the project is the man to put it right. There is a compelling argument that Hughes is precisely the man to do so, and an equally compelling counter argument. Right now, I just about verge on the side of give him the opportunity to do so. There is an interesting parallel with film making - please switch off now people reading this who aren't fussed about this kind of thing - but I had a conversation within someone who works for Lucas Arts t'other week. He was telling me how the Young Han Solo project was canned at 80% completion stage and a whole writing and directing team brought in because they thought the film being made, whilst 'great' wasn't the type of film they originally intended it to be. So they started from scratch and burnt $80m in the process. The mind boggles. The reason I mention this, is football teams are perennial works in progress are they not. Films compete at the box office once released, whereas football teams have to keep going regardless. To further muddy the waters, it's like tweaking the motor car as its hurtling around the race track. I've no doubt Hughes knows all too well what's gone tits up - it's his project after all - and I think its the fuck ups, the flop signings and so on that have prevented us going really high in the table. I mean, imagine if Imbula had clicked, and Berahino too and Shawcross not been injured and more recently Butland. In a parallel universe not that different to Stoke's reality, we could be caning everyone in site (apart from Man City). But we're not and I know that as acutely as anyone as I try and temper my nippers disappointment with results. I'm just not sure that binning Hughes will result in a Blockbuster. Just like Young Han Solo, they'll probably still end up with a film that makes a few quid, doesn't win any awards and divides opinions amongst the fans.
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Post by alster on Nov 29, 2017 12:30:27 GMT
I think if he can help the defence sort out their weaknesses and replace Diof at right wing back with a proper one, I think we'll be ok. A related observation that isn't aimed at Hughes Out fans any more than Everton fans, Spurs or ruddy Plymouth Argyle for all I know, is, don't we all sound rather entitled? I want to be entertained week in week out? I await the snort and retort of people accusing me of sounding like Pulis with his too-used-to-steak analogy or the equally cringeworthy Alan Durban circus comments, but there does come a point when I think that as fans we're supposed to support our team and maybe, just maybe, affectations of grandeur have led some of us to want us be thrilled. Have we forgotten that supporting a football team is an act of love and attrition? I don't expect to get a semi-on watching Stoke but I do expect a well drilled team to give it their best shot. At least Hughes attempts to win matches, whereas our most recent manager attempted not to lose. Given there's not much to choose between their success statistically speaking, I'll stick with Hughes. Just for now. Who expects these stellar performances week in week out even the top sides can't manage that. I don't think its unreasonable to expect a few performances a season that send you home purring. Its two fucking years since we've seen one.
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Post by skip on Nov 29, 2017 12:37:07 GMT
I think if he can help the defence sort out their weaknesses and replace Diof at right wing back with a proper one, I think we'll be ok. A related observation that isn't aimed at Hughes Out fans any more than Everton fans, Spurs or ruddy Plymouth Argyle for all I know, is, don't we all sound rather entitled? I want to be entertained week in week out? I await the snort and retort of people accusing me of sounding like Pulis with his too-used-to-steak analogy or the equally cringeworthy Alan Durban circus comments, but there does come a point when I think that as fans we're supposed to support our team and maybe, just maybe, affectations of grandeur have led some of us to want us be thrilled. Have we forgotten that supporting a football team is an act of love and attrition? I don't expect to get a semi-on watching Stoke but I do expect a well drilled team to give it their best shot. At least Hughes attempts to win matches, whereas our most recent manager attempted not to lose. Given there's not much to choose between their success statistically speaking, I'll stick with Hughes. Just for now. Who expects these stellar performances week in week out even the top sides can't manage that. I don't think its unreasonable to expect a few performances a season that send you home purring. Its two fucking years since we've seen one. I left purring after we beat Arsenal the other month. Pretty happy with the Man Utd game too. I enjoyed the Brighton away match apart from the fannying around and losing two points.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2017 12:47:05 GMT
If Alan Pardew and Sam Throwofadice are the best of what’s out there as alternatives then I think we might just have to stick rather than twist. Both of those managers would get a better tune out this group of players than Hughes is managing.
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Post by alster on Nov 29, 2017 12:49:43 GMT
Who expects these stellar performances week in week out even the top sides can't manage that. I don't think its unreasonable to expect a few performances a season that send you home purring. Its two fucking years since we've seen one. I left purring after we beat Arsenal the other month. Pretty happy with the Man Utd game too. I enjoyed the Brighton away match apart from the fannying around and losing two points. I was chuffed we beat Arsenal but surely that's not the sort of performance you look forward to. We were under the cosh for a very long period and managed to hold out. I enjoyed it, the result thrilled me, was it the performance of my dreams absolutely not.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Nov 29, 2017 12:50:07 GMT
I think it’s the regression that torpedoes that particular argument to be honest Skip. We know we’re capable of better and we’ve really cocked things up and look a long way from where we were two years ago. We can’t play like a Rinus Michels team every week, but surely to God we’ve seen Stoke teams in recent years play more assured, competent football than this, and much like his predecessor, the manager seems to have lost sight of what made that work and is chasing his tail to try and find something that does. I don't dispute we've regressed. The whole argument is whether the architect of the project is the man to put it right. There is a compelling argument that Hughes is precisely the man to do so, and an equally compelling counter argument. Right now, I just about verge on the side of give him the opportunity to do so. There is an interesting parallel with film making - please switch off now people reading this who aren't fussed about this kind of thing - but I had a conversation within someone who works for Lucas Arts t'other week. He was telling me how the Young Han Solo project was canned at 80% completion stage and a whole writing and directing team brought in because they thought the film being made, whilst 'great' wasn't the type of film they originally intended it to be. So they started from scratch and burnt $80m in the process. The mind boggles. The reason I mention this, is football teams are perennial works in progress are they not. Films compete at the box office once released, whereas football teams have to keep going regardless. To further muddy the waters, it's like tweaking the motor car as its hurtling around the race track. I've no doubt Hughes knows all too well what's gone tits up - it's his project after all - and I think its the fuck ups, the flop signings and so on that have prevented us going really high in the table. I mean, imagine if Imbula had clicked, and Berahino too and Shawcross not been injured and more recently Butland. In a parallel universe not that different to Stoke's reality, we could be caning everyone in site (apart from Man City). But we're not and I know that as acutely as anyone as I try and temper my nippers disappointment with results. I'm just not sure that binning Hughes will result in a Blockbuster. Just like Young Han Solo, they'll probably still end up with a film that makes a few quid, doesn't win any awards and divides opinions amongst the fans. I think the real comparison between the two is that movie studios are notoriously risk-averse and so, increasingly, are Premier League owners. There is just much less scope to take chances and be bold and come up with new ideas. So in Hollywood you get a slew of tepid remakes and sequels because they’re an established ‘brand’ with a built-in audience, and though studios claim to want new ideas, if an Edgar Wright or a Lord & Miller start taking things in a direction that isn’t expressly the vision the producers have in mind, it’s adios muchachos. In football, you get owners desperate to stay on the gravy train turning to ageing British managers who play conservative, cautious stuff, like Moyes, Allardyce and Hodgson. Thankfully in both realms there are those still thinking outside the box, be it the genre films Blumhouse are making on a budget, or the likes of Watford rolling the dice on Silva or even putting structures in place that don’t turn the manager into a tin god and tie the club’s fortunes completely to the gaffer’s personality and whims.
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Post by alster on Nov 29, 2017 12:53:04 GMT
If Alan Pardew and Sam Throwofadice are the best of what’s out there as alternatives then I think we might just have to stick rather than twist. Both of those managers would get a better tune out this group of players than Hughes is managing. I think we need to be guarded about short term fixes given Coates history of hiring and firing managers. We could get one who made only marginal improvement to our fortunes and be stuck with him for years.
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Post by knowingeye on Nov 29, 2017 12:58:29 GMT
The fact that people are throwing Pulis's name around suggests that they have as little clue how to stop the rot as Hughes does. Coates needs to be bold and there is no evidence from the past that he will be. So cry scream and piss as much as you need to but Hughes is here for at least another few months. H I think Peter Coates was bold taking the risk of backing Stoke City Football Club, steadying the ship and now readying the club for the next level. I too think that Mark Hughes will be the manager until at least this season's end.
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Post by RAF on Nov 29, 2017 12:59:56 GMT
Almost a year to the day we beat Burnley at home which was a run of 1 defeat in 9 (18 points). So that’s simply not true..... I remember it, game management mode for over an hour very similar to a 1-0 win against Watford sent you home thinking well at least it didn't blow up in his face this time another pretty horrible boring performance with no feelgood factor other than 3 pts that is what it has become under him. So basically you were wrong. H
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Post by hanibal7 on Nov 29, 2017 13:00:39 GMT
A question to all the supporters who thinks Hughes will turn this mess around.I would like to know what argument/evidence do you have that he will? Why should they tell you, shit stirring is the norm on here.
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Post by RAF on Nov 29, 2017 13:01:07 GMT
The fact that people are throwing Pulis's name around suggests that they have as little clue how to stop the rot as Hughes does. Coates needs to be bold and there is no evidence from the past that he will be. So cry scream and piss as much as you need to but Hughes is here for at least another few months. H I think Peter Coates was bold taking the risk of backing Stoke City Football Club, steadying the ship and now readying the club for the next level. I too think that Mark Hughes will be the manager until at least this season's end. Bold about his decision on managers is what I'm referring to and he has never been that. H
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Post by hanibal7 on Nov 29, 2017 13:02:04 GMT
If Alan Pardew and Sam Throwofadice are the best of what’s out there as alternatives then I think we might just have to stick rather than twist. Both of those managers would get a better tune out this group of players than Hughes is however they are not available, same as a 15_20 goals a season player.
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Post by hanibal7 on Nov 29, 2017 13:03:48 GMT
Almost a year to the day we beat Burnley at home which was a run of 1 defeat in 9 (18 points). So that’s simply not true..... selective memory I remember it, game management mode for over an hour very similar to a 1-0 win against Watford sent you home thinking well at least it didn't blow up in his face this time another pretty horrible boring performance with no feelgood factor other than 3 pts that is what it has become under him.
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Post by slicko on Nov 29, 2017 13:05:06 GMT
There’s no mess to turn around. We play at the highest level in the strongest league in the world.
The club is financially solvent.
We attract top National level players.
Our managers have some of the highest longevity in the game.
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Post by chonburipotter on Nov 29, 2017 13:05:15 GMT
A question to all the supporters who thinks Hughes will turn this mess around.I would like to know what argument/evidence do you have that he will? Why should they tell you, shit stirring is the norm on here. So, are you saying that anyone who has concerns about Hughes' management is a shit stirrer?
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jamerg
Youth Player
Posts: 441
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Post by jamerg on Nov 29, 2017 13:05:54 GMT
I'm a remainer, like others, because of the lack decent alternatives.
I was advocating Hughes being replaced with Silva in the summer, and with hindsight that would have been even more sensible that it seemed at the time.
I don't think Hughes will take us down (famous last words!). I think there is a greater risk that the other alternatives out there, without a summer to buy the players they want and get their ideas across to the squad, will take us down.
I therefore think keep him, but (barring a remarkable up-turn in form) replace him in an orderly and considered way in the summer.
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Post by RAF on Nov 29, 2017 13:06:29 GMT
He wont turn it around without a striker Life in the prem is very difficult if you dont have a goalscorer If he signed a 15 to 20 goal a season striker that would change everything To be honest, is previous attempts at this have been abysmal and there is even evidence that if he was close to finding one, he would play the lad at right back! I think sparky is on his way The only thing that can save him is to sign a 2017 james beattie, but I dont think he knows how?? You can sign a 15-20 goal a season striker all you want, but if you're conceding 2 goals a game you're still getting relegated. Not if you are scoring 3 you aren't. H
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Post by chonburipotter on Nov 29, 2017 13:10:47 GMT
You can sign a 15-20 goal a season striker all you want, but if you're conceding 2 goals a game you're still getting relegated. Not if you are scoring 3 you aren't. H That's true enough. When did we last score 3?
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Nov 29, 2017 13:11:25 GMT
He wont turn it around without a striker Life in the prem is very difficult if you dont have a goalscorer If he signed a 15 to 20 goal a season striker that would change everything To be honest, is previous attempts at this have been abysmal and there is even evidence that if he was close to finding one, he would play the lad at right back! I think sparky is on his way The only thing that can save him is to sign a 2017 james beattie, but I dont think he knows how?? I agree with the need for a regular goal scorer, would make huge difference . However examples of clubs outside the big six (?) doing that since we have been in the Premiership are very rare . Finding such a striker on our resources isn’t as easy as some on here seem to believe. We can score goals without a leading striker - that we can't stop conceding them is the problem. In the last two games if we had kept the leads we had established then we'd be on 18 points and much of today's debate wouldn't be taking place.
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Post by RAF on Nov 29, 2017 13:12:31 GMT
Not if you are scoring 3 you aren't. H That's true enough. When did we last score 3? When did we last have a 15-20 goal a season striker? H
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Nov 29, 2017 13:15:45 GMT
I was a remainer,but switched over,but realising now,If Hughes did go,who the feck are we going too get in apart from the Premieship merrygorounders who are out of work because they keep failing.
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Nov 29, 2017 13:19:00 GMT
I'm a remainer, like others, because of the lack decent alternatives. I was advocating Hughes being replaced with Silva in the summer, and with hindsight that would have been even more sensible that it seemed at the time. I don't think Hughes will take us down (famous last words!). I think there is a greater risk that the other alternatives out there, without a summer to buy the players they want and get their ideas across to the squad, will take us down. I therefore think keep him, but (barring a remarkable up-turn in form) replace him in an orderly and considered way in the summer. there must be other Silvas out there don't you think ? I think the time was in the summer and the club dithered possibly bacause they didnt want to spend much and that would have put off decent managers . The risk is relegation , too early to tell yet but the Home games v Swansea Albion West ham and Newcastle are all 6 pointers as is Huddersfield Away . I dont see the really bad sides this season , there are some with less talent than us but they make up for it with hard work . I think Palace have the ability to escape . Everton will buy their way out of it . At this moment in time Id only really be more worried if I was a Swansea fan . We have ability but the lack of concentration, pace , decent full backs and a front line striker are huge issues for us .
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Post by leoncort on Nov 29, 2017 13:20:31 GMT
You can sign a 15-20 goal a season striker all you want, but if you're conceding 2 goals a game you're still getting relegated. Not if you are scoring 3 you aren't. H You cant seriously justify that. All good teams are built on a solid platform from the back which allows the creative players the freedom to perform.
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