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Wimmer !
Nov 25, 2017 22:52:09 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2017 22:52:09 GMT
I think Pieters was more to blame for it, but apart from that I agree with you! Even the palace winner, watching it on motd, no communication between Wimmer and Peiters, just standing around ball watching. Wank wank wank. Hughes has to open his fucking eyes, drop Wimmerand go 4 at the back And Shawcross
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2017 22:53:38 GMT
Sorry to rub it in, again. Left back, right back needed ages ago! Shite from our club!
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Wimmer !
Nov 25, 2017 22:54:51 GMT
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Post by stokemark on Nov 25, 2017 22:54:51 GMT
Can't see how Wimmer is part of the problem? Think his form is generally on an upward trajectory amidst a shit side. He was signed because he's the heir to Ryan. You can't see how wimmer is part of the problem ? Seriously ? We have wasted what little funds we seem to have on a slow, ponderous centre half who can't jump properly and most of the time looks like a rabbit caught in car headlights and you can't see how he is part of the problem ? Jeez
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Wimmer !
Nov 25, 2017 22:58:39 GMT
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Post by chiswickpotter on Nov 25, 2017 22:58:39 GMT
Can't see how Wimmer is part of the problem? Think his form is generally on an upward trajectory amidst a shit side. He was signed because he's the heir to Ryan. You can't see how wimmer is part of the problem ? Seriously ? We have wasted what little funds we seem to have on a slow, ponderous centre half who can't jump properly and most of the time looks like a rabbit caught in car headlights and you can't see how he is part of the problem ? Jeez Pretty clear from MOTD than Ryan was at fault for both goals and the other defenders were caught out because he didn’t do what they expected. Shame as in general play, Ryan and Wimmer were good on and off the ball. Zouma by contrast is not a footballer, his touch is awful and certainly nowhere near what Chelsea expect
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Post by slother on Nov 25, 2017 23:05:26 GMT
Can't see how Wimmer is part of the problem? Think his form is generally on an upward trajectory amidst a shit side. He was signed because he's the heir to Ryan. You can't see how wimmer is part of the problem ? Seriously ? We have wasted what little funds we seem to have on a slow, ponderous centre half who can't jump properly and most of the time looks like a rabbit caught in car headlights and you can't see how he is part of the problem ? Jeez I think the idea that our form is down to Wimmer is ridiculous. - Our form has been shit for 2 years. Wimmer has been here 3 months. - 5 at the back with nobody who can play wingback. - Young Egyptian who can't effect a game on one side. - A streaky winger on a free from Schalke up front. - Millions spent on Imbula. We're paying for him to play for somebody else. - Millions in wages spent on Bojan. We're paying for him to play for somebody else. - Millions spent on Berahino. We played him last season when he was fat. After a preseason when he looks fit again he can't get on the pitch ahead of ECM, Crouch, Jese, Diouf, Sobhi. - Erik Pieters. - Diouf. - The Cult of Shawcross needs to die. Tremendous tremendous player and servant to the club but my first task if I took charge would be to cash in. We need to draw a line under it and look forward not backwards. Just about the only thing good about the club at the moment is Shaqiri, and he'll be gone after the world cup.
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Wimmer !
Nov 25, 2017 23:09:49 GMT
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Post by StatesideStokie on Nov 25, 2017 23:09:49 GMT
Our best centre half is on the bench Why split up a relatively well formed partnership from last season and balls it up with the introduction of Wimmer, seems Hughes is trying to justify the fee he paid at the expense of results. But you spent most of last season getting butt-hurt about the 4-0 drubbings. What’s the deal with that?
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Post by localloser on Nov 25, 2017 23:10:55 GMT
You can't see how wimmer is part of the problem ? Seriously ? We have wasted what little funds we seem to have on a slow, ponderous centre half who can't jump properly and most of the time looks like a rabbit caught in car headlights and you can't see how he is part of the problem ? Jeez I think the idea that our form is down to Wimmer is ridiculous. - Our form has been shit for 2 years. Wimmer has been here 3 months. - 5 at the back with nobody who can play wingback. - Young Egyptian who can't effect a game on one side. - A streaky winger on a free from Schalke up front. - Millions spent on Imbula. We're paying for him to play for somebody else. - Millions in wages spent on Bojan. We're paying for him to play for somebody else. - Millions spent on Berahino. We played him last season when he was fat. After a preseason when he looks fit again he can't get on the pitch ahead of ECM, Crouch, Jese, Diouf, Sobhi. - Erik Pieters. - Diouf. - The Cult of Shawcross needs to die. Tremendous tremendous player and servant to the club but my first task if I took charge would be to cash in. We need to draw a line under it and look forward not backwards. Just about the only thing good about the club at the moment is Shaqiri, and he'll be gone after the world cup. It really is hard to argue with any of this, except I wouldn't criticise Diouf . He does what he's told, plays wherever he's told to, and always gives 100% Not the most talented player in the world, but completely genuine. Should be up front though
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Post by slother on Nov 25, 2017 23:13:42 GMT
I think the idea that our form is down to Wimmer is ridiculous. - Our form has been shit for 2 years. Wimmer has been here 3 months. - 5 at the back with nobody who can play wingback. - Young Egyptian who can't effect a game on one side. - A streaky winger on a free from Schalke up front. - Millions spent on Imbula. We're paying for him to play for somebody else. - Millions in wages spent on Bojan. We're paying for him to play for somebody else. - Millions spent on Berahino. We played him last season when he was fat. After a preseason when he looks fit again he can't get on the pitch ahead of ECM, Crouch, Jese, Diouf, Sobhi. - Erik Pieters. - Diouf. - The Cult of Shawcross needs to die. Tremendous tremendous player and servant to the club but my first task if I took charge would be to cash in. We need to draw a line under it and look forward not backwards. Just about the only thing good about the club at the moment is Shaqiri, and he'll be gone after the world cup. It really is hard to argue with any of this, except I wouldn't criticise Diouf . He does what he's told, plays wherever he's told to, and always gives 100% Not the most talented player in the world, but completely genuine. Should be up front though I LOVE Diouf. Truly I do. As you say, lion-hearted bloke. But he doesn't score goals. He can't dribble. He can't pass. Shouldn't be in any Premier League 1st XI. Not got a single technical skill in his arsenal.
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Wimmer !
Nov 25, 2017 23:38:46 GMT
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Post by stokemark on Nov 25, 2017 23:38:46 GMT
You can't see how wimmer is part of the problem ? Seriously ? We have wasted what little funds we seem to have on a slow, ponderous centre half who can't jump properly and most of the time looks like a rabbit caught in car headlights and you can't see how he is part of the problem ? Jeez I think the idea that our form is down to Wimmer is ridiculous. - Our form has been shit for 2 years. Wimmer has been here 3 months. - 5 at the back with nobody who can play wingback. - Young Egyptian who can't effect a game on one side. - A streaky winger on a free from Schalke up front. - Millions spent on Imbula. We're paying for him to play for somebody else. - Millions in wages spent on Bojan. We're paying for him to play for somebody else. - Millions spent on Berahino. We played him last season when he was fat. After a preseason when he looks fit again he can't get on the pitch ahead of ECM, Crouch, Jese, Diouf, Sobhi. - Erik Pieters. - Diouf. - The Cult of Shawcross needs to die. Tremendous tremendous player and servant to the club but my first task if I took charge would be to cash in. We need to draw a line under it and look forward not backwards. Just about the only thing good about the club at the moment is Shaqiri, and he'll be gone after the world cup. Hold on a minute You're distorting what's been said i.e. Wimmer is part of the problem not THE problem -no ones saying that FFS
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Post by sufolkstokie on Nov 26, 2017 8:05:04 GMT
Shawcross was at fault for both goals and missed a sitter - but carry on blaming Wimmer who put some very good blocks in throughout the game
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 21:40:16 GMT
Ryan was poor. No doubt. Sad to say, but true.
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Post by stokemark on Nov 26, 2017 21:44:48 GMT
Wimmer and Pieters at fault for the second no question
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Post by spoton on Nov 26, 2017 22:39:40 GMT
I said before we bought him should have spent the extra 7mill and gone for Ben Gibson
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 22:45:48 GMT
Wimmer and Pieters at fault for the second no question You just cannot exonerate Shawcross from his share of the blame when he completely misjudged the flight of the ball and missed his header.....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2017 22:46:37 GMT
I said before we bought him should have spent the extra 7mill and gone for Ben Gibson He's not exactly setting the Championship alight....
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Post by crapslinger on Nov 27, 2017 7:19:03 GMT
I said before we bought him should have spent the extra 7mill and gone for Ben Gibson Why we did not spend the money on players we really needed as front line starters is a strange one, £18million on a back up player for a club with our resources is madness.
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Post by jeycov on Nov 27, 2017 8:21:40 GMT
Is he any better than muni or even Wolly? Yes I think he is, or will be once he has the chance to play regularly What’s more he is our player now and fans need to support him. Muniesa was loved by most fans, is a skilful player with fitness issues and possibly not up to the rigours of the Premiership. He didn’t really feature for the first 12 months In contrast, Wolly did efficiently slot into our defence, of course he had some poor games but a lot of fans didn’t feel that he fitted into the team and were ready to criticise his faults at every opportunity We need to be realistic and try and help raise morale as difficult as that might be just now
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Wimmer !
Nov 27, 2017 8:31:07 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 27, 2017 8:31:07 GMT
You can't see how wimmer is part of the problem ? Seriously ? We have wasted what little funds we seem to have on a slow, ponderous centre half who can't jump properly and most of the time looks like a rabbit caught in car headlights and you can't see how he is part of the problem ? Jeez I think the idea that our form is down to Wimmer is ridiculous. - Our form has been shit for 2 years. Wimmer has been here 3 months. - 5 at the back with nobody who can play wingback. - Young Egyptian who can't effect a game on one side. - A streaky winger on a free from Schalke up front. - Millions spent on Imbula. We're paying for him to play for somebody else. - Millions in wages spent on Bojan. We're paying for him to play for somebody else. - Millions spent on Berahino. We played him last season when he was fat. After a preseason when he looks fit again he can't get on the pitch ahead of ECM, Crouch, Jese, Diouf, Sobhi. - Erik Pieters. - Diouf. - The Cult of Shawcross needs to die. Tremendous tremendous player and servant to the club but my first task if I took charge would be to cash in. We need to draw a line under it and look forward not backwards. Just about the only thing good about the club at the moment is Shaqiri, and he'll be gone after the world cup. I find myself having to correct your post young man We are currently paying bojan and imbula not to play for there clubs Apart from that your above post is spot on
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Wimmer !
Nov 27, 2017 8:46:11 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2017 8:46:11 GMT
Could be worse we could have spent £25m+ on Michael Keane....
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Wimmer !
Nov 27, 2017 9:05:51 GMT
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Nov 27, 2017 9:05:51 GMT
It's still early days with him but what worries me is how slow he is to react to danger in the box and just doesn't want to throw himself in and block shots.
Should he be keeping Bruno out of the team ?
Is he 18m better than either Muni or Wolly?
This is what is running round my mind I can see he reads situations well and is decent on the ball but I want centre halves who actually love defending and I can't see it yet in him.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Nov 27, 2017 10:17:53 GMT
For the first goal his positioning is all wrong. He had 2 players outside of him and doesnt track them at all. He is on the left hand side of defence and it his responsibility to pick them up and stop the cross reaching the back post.
If the cross comes from the other side for sure Zouma would be there to challenge for the ball.
His positioning is consistently bad
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Post by steinosjockstrap on Nov 27, 2017 10:46:34 GMT
For the first goal his positioning is all wrong. He had 2 players outside of him and doesnt track them at all. He is on the left hand side of defence and it his responsibility to pick them up and stop the cross reaching the back post. If the cross comes from the other side for sure Zouma would be there to challenge for the ball. His positioning is consistently bad That first goal was down to one man, Erik "Sodding" Pieters you watch it again,he had Loftus-Cheek covered,but decides to go walkies and leaves him unmarked. Now I know that someone has to be a scapegoat for everything,but blam where blame is due,eh?
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Nov 27, 2017 11:07:54 GMT
For the first goal his positioning is all wrong. He had 2 players outside of him and doesnt track them at all. He is on the left hand side of defence and it his responsibility to pick them up and stop the cross reaching the back post. If the cross comes from the other side for sure Zouma would be there to challenge for the ball. His positioning is consistently bad That first goal was down to one man, Erik "Sodding" Pieters you watch it again,he had Loftus-Cheek covered,but decides to go walkies and leaves him unmarked. Now I know that someone has to be a scapegoat for everything,but blam where blame is due,eh? Pieters wasnt marking but that is what happens when you play a WingBack system - they arent always covering the back-post The cross went through at waist-level. If Wimmer was standing in the correct place it is a simple clearance. He was in no-mans land and 2 Palace players got inside him.
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Wimmer !
Nov 27, 2017 11:15:30 GMT
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Post by johnnysoul60 on Nov 27, 2017 11:15:30 GMT
For the first goal his positioning is all wrong. He had 2 players outside of him and doesnt track them at all. He is on the left hand side of defence and it his responsibility to pick them up and stop the cross reaching the back post. If the cross comes from the other side for sure Zouma would be there to challenge for the ball. His positioning is consistently bad That first goal was down to one man, Erik "Sodding" Pieters you watch it again,he had Loftus-Cheek covered,but decides to go walkies and leaves him unmarked. Now I know that someone has to be a scapegoat for everything,but blam where blame is due,eh? It was a joint mess. Wimmer lost Zaha and Pieters followed him leaving Loftus Cheek on his own . Both failed to defend properly . Add to that not trying hard enough to stop crosses and Ryan's clearance attempt and it's easy to see why we have shipped 26 goals
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Post by professorplump on Nov 27, 2017 11:17:11 GMT
Wimmer is very obviously being made the scapegoat because of his transfer fee but I don't think he was any worse than any of the other defenders. Good defences work as a unit and at the moment we look more like a collection of individuals. Probably comes down to the coaching.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Nov 27, 2017 11:32:47 GMT
We seem more prone to defensive blunders with three centre backs than we did with two because the wing backs have no idea how to play their role. Erik is constantly in a no-mans land and tucks in next to Wimmer as opposed to covering the far left side of defence. He either gets in the way or gets caught out of position. It's awful to watch. Go back to a four man defence and play an extra midfielder, one of whom can cover the runners from the opposition midfield. Cameron for me, but we could also do with him at right back in order to release Diouf to play up front with Choupo and Shaq.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 27, 2017 12:51:27 GMT
We seem more prone to defensive blunders with three centre backs than we did with two because the wing backs have no idea how to play their role. Erik is constantly in a no-mans land and tucks in next to Wimmer as opposed to covering the far left side of defence. He either gets in the way or gets caught out of position. It's awful to watch. Go back to a four man defence and play an extra midfielder, one of whom can cover the runners from the opposition midfield. Cameron for me, but we could also do with him at right back in order to release Diouf to play up front with Choupo and Shaq. I agree to an extent but Wimmer is more uncomfortable in the left sided centre half role than Pieters is in the LWB role for me. If we are playing 3 at the back, the 3 has to be Zouma, Shawcross and BMI because both Zouma and BMI are comfortable in full back positions. The introduction of BMI, will clear Erik's mind and make him much more comfortable trying to do the role that is being asked of him in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, it is still far from ideal, but that one change would make a massive difference down the left side of the pitch. Equally, Diouf at RWB needs to be binned off. Moving forward, it has to be one of Edwards, Johnson or Cameron at RWB, if we are to persist with 3 at the back which ultimately, few within the supporter base, want to see continue. Are you saying 4-3-3 is the way to go rather than 4-2-3-1?
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Post by pez75 on Nov 27, 2017 13:04:49 GMT
We seem more prone to defensive blunders with three centre backs than we did with two because the wing backs have no idea how to play their role. Erik is constantly in a no-mans land and tucks in next to Wimmer as opposed to covering the far left side of defence. He either gets in the way or gets caught out of position. It's awful to watch. Go back to a four man defence and play an extra midfielder, one of whom can cover the runners from the opposition midfield. Cameron for me, but we could also do with him at right back in order to release Diouf to play up front with Choupo and Shaq. I agree to an extent but Wimmer is more uncomfortable in the left sided centre half role than Pieters is in the LWB role for me. If we are playing 3 at the back, the 3 has to be Zouma, Shawcross and BMI because both Zouma and BMI are comfortable in full back positions. The introduction of BMI, will clear Erik's mind and make him much more comfortable trying to do the role that is being asked of him in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, it is still far from ideal, but that one change would make a massive difference down the left side of the pitch. Equally, Diouf at RWB needs to be binned off. Moving forward, it has to be one of Edwards, Johnson or Cameron at RWB, if we are to persist with 3 at the back which ultimately, few within the supporter base, want to see continue. Are you saying 4-3-3 is the way to go rather than 4-2-3-1? I admire your misplaced loyalty Dave, but you could put Franz Beckenbauer in his prime alongside Pieters and he would still be wank. Erik Pieters is one of the fundamental problems with this defence and requires replacing. One of Hughes major blunders is his inability / reluctance to upgrade our fullbacks, especially when he has decided to change his formation this season...
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 27, 2017 13:14:47 GMT
I agree to an extent but Wimmer is more uncomfortable in the left sided centre half role than Pieters is in the LWB role for me. If we are playing 3 at the back, the 3 has to be Zouma, Shawcross and BMI because both Zouma and BMI are comfortable in full back positions. The introduction of BMI, will clear Erik's mind and make him much more comfortable trying to do the role that is being asked of him in my opinion. Don't get me wrong, it is still far from ideal, but that one change would make a massive difference down the left side of the pitch. Equally, Diouf at RWB needs to be binned off. Moving forward, it has to be one of Edwards, Johnson or Cameron at RWB, if we are to persist with 3 at the back which ultimately, few within the supporter base, want to see continue. Are you saying 4-3-3 is the way to go rather than 4-2-3-1? I admire your misplaced loyalty Dave, but you could put Franz Beckenbauer in his prime alongside Pieters and he would still be wank. Erik Pieters is one of the fundamental problems with this defence and requires replacing. One of Hughes major blunders is his inability / reluctance to upgrade our fullbacks, especially when he has decided to change his formation this season... I'm not being loyal to anyone. Pieters is a more than capable full back who when focusing on defensive responsibilities, stops crosses coming into the box and generally nullifies his direct opponent. In a 3, he's trying to a job that isn't his forte but you cannot fail to appreciate that he's caught between a rock and hard place with his colleague who is even more ill at ease with what he's been asked to do. As for failing to address our full back issues, I'd disagree with that because clearly he's tried to address it having thought he's signed both Trippier and Soares at one point only for them to go elsewhere at the last minute.
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Post by pez75 on Nov 27, 2017 13:23:13 GMT
I admire your misplaced loyalty Dave, but you could put Franz Beckenbauer in his prime alongside Pieters and he would still be wank. Erik Pieters is one of the fundamental problems with this defence and requires replacing. One of Hughes major blunders is his inability / reluctance to upgrade our fullbacks, especially when he has decided to change his formation this season... I'm not being loyal to anyone. Pieters is a more than capable full back who when focusing on defensive responsibilities, stops crosses coming into the box and generally nullifies his direct opponent. In a 3, he's trying to a job that isn't his forte but you cannot fail to appreciate that he's caught between a rock and hard place with his colleague who is even more ill at ease with what he's been asked to do. As for failing to address our full back issues, I'd disagree with that because clearly he's tried to address it having thought he's signed both Trippier and Soares at one point only for them to go elsewhere at the last minute. I dont rate Wimmer and I agree that BMI should play there, but he is not to blame for Pieters continued liability football week after week. Being found out of position due to this formation is one thing, but his recent calamities in each of the last 4 games except Watford have been down to rank bad defending. Tripper & Soares were years ago. He decided to play wingbacks this summer without the personnel to do so.
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