|
Post by mrred on May 31, 2017 9:22:30 GMT
I keep seeing this word ungrateful. I'd love to know why we should be grateful? They'll never lose out will they? Simmer down and let the multi-billionaire spend his pocket money, Pugs! Or not as it's going... And be bloody well grateful whilst you're at it! You're getting a new plastic seat in the ground, what more do you want?!
|
|
|
Post by okeydokeystokie2 on May 31, 2017 9:40:45 GMT
I keep seeing this word ungrateful. I'd love to know why we should be grateful? They'll never lose out will they? We have benefited from their willingness to put massive money into the football club. As supporters, we are fortunate to have a local, wealthy chairman who seems to be comfortable with the idea of leaving northwards of £50 million of his money in the football club.
Stoke City supporters are lucky to have such a committed wealthy owner who has enabled the club to get back to the big time. For that, I'm grateful.
As for not losing out, I'm not sure that the Venkys, Ellis Short, Randy Lerner etc will be getting anywhere near their investment back any time soon, if ever.
A club like Stoke City is one bad managerial appointment away from relegation and the risk of huge financial losses.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on May 31, 2017 9:46:23 GMT
I keep seeing this word ungrateful. I'd love to know why we should be grateful? They'll never lose out will they? Simmer down and let the multi-billionaire spend his pocket money, Pugs! Or not as it's going... And be bloody well grateful whilst you're at it! You're getting a new plastic seat in the ground, what more do you want?! I'm not, I'm in the Q-Railing... Coates OUT.
|
|
|
Post by Pugsley on May 31, 2017 9:48:27 GMT
I keep seeing this word ungrateful. I'd love to know why we should be grateful? They'll never lose out will they? We have benefited from their willingness to put massive money into the football club. As supporters, we are fortunate to have a local, wealthy chairman who seems to be comfortable with the idea of leaving northwards of £50 million of his money in the football club.
Stoke City supporters are lucky to have such a committed wealthy owner who has enabled the club to get back to the big time. For that, I'm grateful.
As for not losing out, I'm not sure that the Venkys, Ellis Short, Randy Lerner etc will be getting anywhere near their investment back any time soon, if ever.
A club like Stoke City is one bad managerial appointment away from relegation and the risk of huge financial losses.
Nobody has made him and he will ensure he never loses out. That is cast iron. I'm happy enough he is in charge but we still should be able to question him.
|
|
|
Post by Clayton Wood on May 31, 2017 10:00:52 GMT
We have benefited from their willingness to put massive money into the football club. As supporters, we are fortunate to have a local, wealthy chairman who seems to be comfortable with the idea of leaving northwards of £50 million of his money in the football club.
Stoke City supporters are lucky to have such a committed wealthy owner who has enabled the club to get back to the big time. For that, I'm grateful.
As for not losing out, I'm not sure that the Venkys, Ellis Short, Randy Lerner etc will be getting anywhere near their investment back any time soon, if ever.
A club like Stoke City is one bad managerial appointment away from relegation and the risk of huge financial losses.
Nobody has made him and he will ensure he never loses out. That is cast iron. I'm happy enough he is in charge but we still should be able to question him. Let's face it there's a certain amount of fan apathy around at the moment. Coming up to 10 years in the top division, realistically top half finishes are the best we can expect in the league bar a one off wonder season. Silverware is getting further away it seems. Maybe the Coates' have reached their glass ceiling and staying in at low cost is the plan for us? Doesn't mean we don't appreciate what they've done, far from it, but maybe they have plateaued out too?
|
|
|
Post by okeydokeystokie2 on May 31, 2017 10:26:36 GMT
I accept that nobody made him and that it was his own choice to return, it seems against the original wishes of his family.
As a supporter though, can you not accept that we are fortunate to have PC?
Blackpool supporters boycotted their play off final at Wembley because they are unhappy with Karl Oyston. Coventry City are in the 4th tier of the league pyramid and seem to be owned by a hedge fund.
I don't share your certainty that he can never lose out. The only way he ever recoups that money is by selling the club. Any investment is a risk. If Stoke City were relegated, the value of the club would fall and I don't think he could get the money he has put into the club back.
As for questioning him, he is Chairman of the club and so is accountable (although strictly speaking only to shareholders and investors I suppose). But question him about what? The fact that we've just had the most successful 4 years in the club's 154 year history? The fact that we're developing the academy and investing in the stadium to increase capacity?
I suspect that yours and a lot of supporters' concerns are the levels of investment in the first team squad. But the last two signings, Imbula and Allen have cost a combined total of around £30 million, each with 5 year contracts probably costing a further £7 million per year combined. It's not like he's shopping at the Poundland sale just yet..
Surely the clubs financial management will have met with the football management to look at strategy. It's pretty fluid - if say, Butland, Arnautovic and Imbula are sold, there's work to do on the squad, and hopefully the funds to do it. If just Imbula were to go, there will probably be the need to invest in a quality midfield player. I believe the Coates family will invest again if they find the right player.
Maybe we should trust him and his management team a little more to continue to develop the club as they have done successfully for the last 10 years or so.
|
|
|
Post by SCFC92 on May 31, 2017 10:43:39 GMT
Absolutely ridiculous thread! The bloke has invested millions and millions into this club to get us to where we are today. Where we are today is in a position to state that 13th isn't good enough and poor football alongside this means that the manager is being called into question. Whilst sentiment has little place in football in the case of our owners and where we are it certainly does! Stable premier league team who can actually cope with having a Manager losing his marbles for a period of 18 months and still comfortably secure premier league football no matter how badly we are performing. An academy which has had multi millions invested into it which hopefully will begin to bare fruit sooner rather than later. (I actually think this is the main driving force behind the prudent transfer policy as we almost definitely need to start bringing our youth into our team) Self sufficiency, we posted a profit last year which is a rarity in this league! We are expanding our stadium and improving seating and facilities throughout. The club is still growing and it is swelling with the influence of the Coates family and I am so grateful we have them! The problem is our transfer team and manager, if they don't get it correct the first 6-8 games of the new season they will be fast out the door! You are unquestioning towards the Coates' but your facts and reasoning are a bit off. Turning a profit in this league is no longer bucking a trend the vast majority of teams are turning a profit at this time, ours is one of the smallest. You then go on to highlight a problem with the manager and transfer team and say they will be fast out of the door if they don't get it right in the first 6 to 8 games next season. Doing that would make not sacking them this closed season and starting afresh an act of gross incompetence. Slightly off with my profit / loss i'll concede that we seem to have just gone over 50% making profit now. www.express.co.uk/sport/football/802849/Premier-League-team-Arsenal-Chelsea-sportgalleries I wouldn't state it was gross incompetence, more faith in the team he has put in place, as long as the reaction is quick and fast enough. I don't see Coates as the issue, or as dropping a bollock here. I just hope all these threads are laughable 10 games into next season when we have won 10 games 10-0
|
|
|
Post by Clayton Wood on May 31, 2017 11:42:36 GMT
I accept that nobody made him and that it was his own choice to return, it seems against the original wishes of his family. As a supporter though, can you not accept that we are fortunate to have PC? Blackpool supporters boycotted their play off final at Wembley because they are unhappy with Karl Oyston. Coventry City are in the 4th tier of the league pyramid and seem to be owned by a hedge fund. I don't share your certainty that he can never lose out. The only way he ever recoups that money is by selling the club. Any investment is a risk. If Stoke City were relegated, the value of the club would fall and I don't think he could get the money he has put into the club back. As for questioning him, he is Chairman of the club and so is accountable (although strictly speaking only to shareholders and investors I suppose). But question him about what? The fact that we've just had the most successful 4 years in the club's 154 year history? The fact that we're developing the academy and investing in the stadium to increase capacity? I suspect that yours and a lot of supporters' concerns are the levels of investment in the first team squad. But the last two signings, Imbula and Allen have cost a combined total of around £30 million, each with 5 year contracts probably costing a further £7 million per year combined. It's not like he's shopping at the Poundland sale just yet.. Surely the clubs financial management will have met with the football management to look at strategy. It's pretty fluid - if say, Butland, Arnautovic and Imbula are sold, there's work to do on the squad, and hopefully the funds to do it. If just Imbula were to go, there will probably be the need to invest in a quality midfield player. I believe the Coates family will invest again if they find the right player. Maybe we should trust him and his management team a little more to continue to develop the club as they have done successfully for the last 10 years or so. Or about what Palace paid for Benteke who scored 15 league and 2 cup goals. The missing 20 goal a season striker Hughes says he needs. But there will be no £30m signings though here according to the club. Just saying.
|
|
|
Post by okeydokeystokie2 on May 31, 2017 12:05:17 GMT
Glad you mentioned that, as I forgot about the recent £12 or £14 million and probably £70,000 per week invested in Saido, MH's preferred striker.
Yet again, PC backed his manager.
I still maintain that if the right player was available for the right money, the club would try to make that signing happen. Seems quite shrewd to me to say we're not spending big - if Newcastle United, with their reported £100 million budget ring about one of your players, you're going to hold out for top dollar. Better to do the deals quietly?
I'm not really sure what you are just saying.
|
|
|
Post by Clayton Wood on May 31, 2017 12:20:16 GMT
Glad you mentioned that, as I forgot about the recent £12 or £14 million and probably £70,000 per week invested in Saido, MH's preferred striker. Yet again, PC backed his manager. I still maintain that if the right player was available for the right money, the club would try to make that signing happen. Seems quite shrewd to me to say we're not spending big - if Newcastle United, with their reported £100 million budget ring about one of your players, you're going to hold out for top dollar. Better to do the deals quietly? I'm not really sure what you are just saying. I was trying to point out (poorly!) that we were lowest spenders in that last window but spend little and often rather than going 'big'. It seems a one off £30m signing frightens Coates/club. So we fettle around the edges (creating more problems ie Imbula, Boney, Wolly etc) rather than fixing the problem. Unless he does not trust his generals to spend big and get it right, can't blame him. As I put further up maybe the family have reached their glass ceiling and the £100m type investment to the next level (with no guarantees) isn't their cup of tea or MO. Meanwhile roll on May 2018 when we all sit back and say well that bit of investment filled the gaps and bought us a great season .
|
|
|
Post by okeydokeystokie2 on May 31, 2017 12:40:19 GMT
I take your point about huge money.
I hope that in Saido, we've got a £30 million player at terrific value. Better than Kane at junior international level and on the brink of a £25 million move to Tottenham two years ago.
Did Palace pay too much for Benteke? 3 years older than Saido, who is English... Or if £30 mill is the going rate, then maybe we have a bargain.
I think the club (the Family) are wary of a huge fee for a headline player. Better to unearth a gem for less money - Butland, Arnautovic and Sobhi. The other type of signing is the potential high reward - Bojan and to a degree even Imbula fall into this category. I suspect both were bought with an eye on re-sale value - it's a risk that might not pay off though.
Like many, I'm a little surprised that so many senior players have had contract extensions. I'm hoping this is a handover period to integrate Edwards, Sweeney, Verlinden and N'Goy into the first team squad.
I still think we're doing OK, and looking at the big picture are evolving and progressing. My point is that I can't think of another current owner/Chairman I would want before PC, so for me, he is very much a positive and in no way a negative factor at the club.
|
|
|
Post by thebet365 on May 31, 2017 12:41:50 GMT
Glad you mentioned that, as I forgot about the recent £12 or £14 million and probably £70,000 per week invested in Saido, MH's preferred striker. Yet again, PC backed his manager. I still maintain that if the right player was available for the right money, the club would try to make that signing happen. Seems quite shrewd to me to say we're not spending big - if Newcastle United, with their reported £100 million budget ring about one of your players, you're going to hold out for top dollar. Better to do the deals quietly? I'm not really sure what you are just saying. I was trying to point out (poorly!) that we were lowest spenders in that last window but spend little and often rather than going 'big'. We were the 5th Highest net spenders last window, and 8th overall for the seasons 2 windows ?
|
|
|
Post by alster on May 31, 2017 12:50:21 GMT
You are unquestioning towards the Coates' but your facts and reasoning are a bit off. Turning a profit in this league is no longer bucking a trend the vast majority of teams are turning a profit at this time, ours is one of the smallest. You then go on to highlight a problem with the manager and transfer team and say they will be fast out of the door if they don't get it right in the first 6 to 8 games next season. Doing that would make not sacking them this closed season and starting afresh an act of gross incompetence. Slightly off with my profit / loss i'll concede that we seem to have just gone over 50% making profit now. www.express.co.uk/sport/football/802849/Premier-League-team-Arsenal-Chelsea-sportgalleries I wouldn't state it was gross incompetence, more faith in the team he has put in place, as long as the reaction is quick and fast enough. I don't see Coates as the issue, or as dropping a bollock here. I just hope all these threads are laughable 10 games into next season when we have won 10 games 10-0 Those are old figures. I think you'll find the general situation regarding profitability has improved even more SwissRamble is the best to compare finances I'd do a link but can't remember how. Can't agree on the incompetence. To me if you sack your manager 8 to 10 games into the season it shows you had very little faith in him right from the off in which case it was grossly incompetent not to act in the closed season. If that chain of events does happen and it ends up costing us our Premier league status IMO the Coates' are far more responsible for that than Hughes. Obviously I'm happy with his second tenure as chairman but I don't think he's ever been that amazingly good at running a football club, appointing football managers or timing major decisions to render him unquestionable. Somehow the success of bet 365 has made people think he shouldn't be questioned but he was fortunate with that as he isn't the driving force behind the business and in all honesty I'd say that he is far too cautious to have ever succeeded on that scale in his own right, he's been fortunate and he's shared his fortune with us in the form of the improvement in fortunes of our club. Thank you Peter, don't mess it up.
|
|
|
Post by Clayton Wood on May 31, 2017 12:55:28 GMT
|
|
|
Post by thebet365 on May 31, 2017 13:06:44 GMT
Fair enough 2nd lowest spenders that window but some teams only spent more because they sold some of their best players so re-invested. Some spent more than us but still made a profit in the window. Go back a window and we were 5th Highest spenders, and that was just on 1 player. What a disaster thats turned out
|
|
|
Post by Clayton Wood on May 31, 2017 13:21:05 GMT
Fair enough 2nd lowest spenders that window but some teams only spent more because they sold some of their best players so re-invested. Some spent more than us but still made a profit in the window. Go back a window and we were 5th Highest spenders, and that was just on 1 player. What a disaster thats turned out Agreed. Which is why I'd be uncomfortable giving an open cheque book to the 'management team'. You know thinking about it, conserving cash, managing debt, sprucing up the assets, holding on to existing management structure is what business' do before a sale. Just idle thoughts on the outside looking in
|
|
|
Post by stokesaint1 on May 31, 2017 14:32:32 GMT
I was trying to point out (poorly!) that we were lowest spenders in that last window but spend little and often rather than going 'big'. We were the 5th Highest net spenders last window, and 8th overall for the seasons 2 windows ? Net spend, to be fair,in this context is a crap measure. All it says is that our assets (players) value was low and not in much demand. We may have spent a few bob but did we get a return of investment? I would say, based on last seasons performances and the invisibility of the big investments, the answer is a resounding no. Basically very poor transfer business. And to answer the inevitable question, if I was Peter Coates, would I trust Hughes to spend big any more of my money? Would I hell. Which poses a second question, why has he kept him in position?
|
|
|
Post by mrcoke on Jun 12, 2017 10:11:15 GMT
|
|
|
Post by chiswickpotter on Jun 12, 2017 10:22:39 GMT
Slightly off with my profit / loss i'll concede that we seem to have just gone over 50% making profit now. www.express.co.uk/sport/football/802849/Premier-League-team-Arsenal-Chelsea-sportgalleries I wouldn't state it was gross incompetence, more faith in the team he has put in place, as long as the reaction is quick and fast enough. I don't see Coates as the issue, or as dropping a bollock here. I just hope all these threads are laughable 10 games into next season when we have won 10 games 10-0 Those are old figures. I think you'll find the general situation regarding profitability has improved even more SwissRamble is the best to compare finances I'd do a link but can't remember how. Can't agree on the incompetence. To me if you sack your manager 8 to 10 games into the season it shows you had very little faith in him right from the off in which case it was grossly incompetent not to act in the closed season. If that chain of events does happen and it ends up costing us our Premier league status IMO the Coates' are far more responsible for that than Hughes. Obviously I'm happy with his second tenure as chairman but I don't think he's ever been that amazingly good at running a football club, appointing football managers or timing major decisions to render him unquestionable. Somehow the success of bet 365 has made people think he shouldn't be questioned but he was fortunate with that as he isn't the driving force behind the business and in all honesty I'd say that he is far too cautious to have ever succeeded on that scale in his own right, he's been fortunate and he's shared his fortune with us in the form of the improvement in fortunes of our club. Thank you Peter, don't mess it up. Profitability has improved but wages are still more than 70% of our turnover and we are only profitable because we have £50 million of debt provided by the Chairman and £30 million of more that has been written off as equity. To buy a £30 million player, we would need Bet365 to fund it, we don't generate that money and would be in danger of falling foul of FFP. Coates in not the problem, he is the only hope we have of continuing as we are, getting much better is a fantasy, we are too small financially
|
|
|
Post by songthrush01 on Jun 12, 2017 14:40:19 GMT
Is it just Hughes who's fucking everything up or is our lack of investment compared to other clubs the reason that we've gone backwards. We seem to have a small club mentality and all the board members seem old with a lack of fresh ideas. totally agree with you,but theres people on here who think you have to bow to him.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 14:46:06 GMT
Is it just Hughes who's fucking everything up or is our lack of investment compared to other clubs the reason that we've gone backwards. We seem to have a small club mentality and all the board members seem old with a lack of fresh ideas. totally agree with you,but theres people on here who think you have to bow to him. Bow to who?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2017 15:03:18 GMT
Is it just Hughes who's fucking everything up or is our lack of investment compared to other clubs the reason that we've gone backwards. We seem to have a small club mentality and all the board members seem old with a lack of fresh ideas. totally agree with you,but theres people on here who think you have to bow to him. Hughes?
|
|
|
Post by superheroantonius on Jun 12, 2017 20:18:46 GMT
I agree with an earlier post... That he would just like the club to be run in a sensible business like manner.
Which is fair enough from his side of the fence.
But it's not massively exciting for the fans.
|
|
|
Post by stokiejoe on Jun 12, 2017 20:22:54 GMT
If Coates is a problem then I am delighted that he is our problem.
|
|
|
Post by heworksardtho on Jun 13, 2017 5:26:47 GMT
Let's be honest it's a shit league where the top six will just get richer , bigger and untouchable and teams like stoke will be picking up the scraps , we need serious investment if we are to move forward
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on Jun 13, 2017 7:11:08 GMT
No, we are very lucky to have "uncle" Peter at Stoke! I also love the thought of a Stoke fan being the chairman, only a few clubs are in this position now!
|
|
|
Post by chiswickpotter on Jun 13, 2017 7:24:06 GMT
Let's be honest it's a shit league where the top six will just get richer , bigger and untouchable and teams like stoke will be picking up the scraps , we need serious investment if we are to move forward And to be clear, there is no possibility of that happening with any other owner as there is no possibility of a return on "serious investment", we would have to find someone willing to give hundreds of millions of pounds to Stoke City and then keep putting money in to pay wages in the hope of finishing 7th. It isn't going to happen
|
|
|
Post by eltel60 on Jun 13, 2017 8:19:11 GMT
There is know one I would rather have in charge, The Coates family are local people who care passionately about the club. Peter Coates was vilified the last time he was in charge. No body could have critised him for walking away and not coming back. Yet despite all the critism and abuse he came back to save the club and as taken us to where we are today.
|
|
|
Post by magwitch on Jun 13, 2017 8:47:50 GMT
The answer to this question is yes....of course it is. He has a difficult job to do, and a chequered history. Many of his managerial appointments have ended in failure and, if he were to sack Hughes, it would be very doubtful whether he would appoint the right man. This might explain his reluctance to take any action. He is once again at odds with the supporters and it could all go pear-shaped next season. The jury is out on Peter Coates.
|
|
|
Post by robwahlmann on Jun 13, 2017 10:37:29 GMT
The answer to this question is yes....of course it is. He has a difficult job to do, and a chequered history. Many of his managerial appointments have ended in failure and, if he were to sack Hughes, it would be very doubtful whether he would appoint the right man. This might explain his reluctance to take any action. He is once again at odds with the supporters and it could all go pear-shaped next season. The jury is out on Peter Coates. Many of his managerial appointments!?
|
|