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Post by songthrush01 on May 27, 2017 12:45:14 GMT
Is it just Hughes who's fucking everything up or is our lack of investment compared to other clubs the reason that we've gone backwards. We seem to have a small club mentality and all the board members seem old with a lack of fresh ideas. being saying this for a while now.i fear that the club is being used for bet 365 business,and you have to remember they state a few years ago that the club had to stand on its on two feet.
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Post by skip on May 27, 2017 12:48:09 GMT
Maybe Hughes is partly hamstrung by the people at the top, not necessarily Coates, but those answerable to him.
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Post by djduncanjames on May 27, 2017 12:51:58 GMT
The recruitment has been an issue, not Coates. I am sure he expected all the players like Bojan, Wooly and Joselu and Imbula to have worked out but they haven't. He's spent the money
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 12:53:15 GMT
With Coates' cash, the stadium should be one of the best outside the top few. Despite the new corner it's still a run down ageing disjointed unappealing shambles.
Coates can answer to that one.
Over the last few windows we're about 50m short (conservatively) of what should have been invested to keep us progressing. Coates can answer to that too.
*When I say Coates, I mean the CEO and all his minions but really it sits with PC overall to keep pushing us on.
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tcks
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 69
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Post by tcks on May 27, 2017 13:32:17 GMT
PC still thinks we have the best squad of players since Noah was a lad. I think this season has proved him to be way off the mark. Without some serious investment we will be up shit creek without a paddle but having seen the retained list a d the contract extensions that have been given out it looks like its going to be a minimal amount of investment. Championship here we come!
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Post by lawrieleslie on May 27, 2017 13:52:53 GMT
PC still thinks we have the best squad of players since Noah was a lad. I think this season has proved him to be way off the mark. Without some serious investment we will be up shit creek without a paddle but having seen the retained list a d the contract extensions that have been given out it looks like its going to be a minimal amount of investment. Championship here we come! Have you got a link to the retained list. Googling it just gives those youngsters who are being retained or released plus contract extension for bardsley and an offer for Ireland. B e interested to see the full list.
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Post by mouseykanga2 on May 27, 2017 13:56:36 GMT
Surprisingly seeing as how rich he is and the passion for the club. But he is running the club as a tight business. At no point does he look like taking the next step. With again does not look like happening again this season. Hence the old boys getting new contacts.
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Post by mouseykanga2 on May 27, 2017 14:03:40 GMT
Watford have promised there new manager good funds... West Bromwich got buckets to invest with. We really arnt keeping up with the pace.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2017 14:27:07 GMT
It's owned by bet 365 but the club and ground are owned by two separate companies within that. Yes but surely all the companies have one thing in common, they are all ultimately owned and controlled by the Coates family unless Uncle Peter, in his kindness, has made all ST holders share holders in the ground too? They are but the you could say the same with Vale but we all know that's an hilarious situation on the horizon. Now we don't know what Coates' plans are but when the supporters council asked for that covenant that meant the ground never left the club and got a polite fuck off from Scholes, more people imo should have been cautious. I want to say alarmed but that's ott.
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Post by puddledpotter on May 27, 2017 16:10:08 GMT
All premier league clubs are heavily reliant on the sky/bt money, some having commented for years that the economics and level of spending, borrowing and wages are not sustainable long term. Most clubs have had investment by owners converted into shares and added to the debts and would be in trouble without it. The Coates family seem to have been pretty successful at aligning their business with economic trends over the years and if they are moving to a self sustainable business model it will in all probability not be just a guess. With the wealthier clubs their larger merchandising operations generate extra income but less wealthy clubs follow the old practice of selling players on, usually younger players at a profit, Southampton for example seem good at this. We have invested heavily in our academy and signed a number of young players which would seem to fit in with this thinking. As to the question is Peter Coates a problem in my view he is one that a lot of clubs and supporters wish they had and at the end of the day it is the family's club and money and I think that the club is in a far better position now than before their involvement.
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Post by superheroantonius on May 27, 2017 18:00:50 GMT
For me this thread is about the past, the present and the future.
Looking at the past the coates family involvement has benefited the club
For now and looking into the future who knows?
PCs rhetoric suggests he's committed to running a tight ship
Which I can see would make life difficult for hughes, if he believes,as many do,that we are at a watershed and need a big investment in the squad this summer.
Either way, I think we really are at a watershed and won't be treading water next summer.
It feels as if our time as come to go one way or the other.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2017 18:00:57 GMT
All premier league clubs are heavily reliant on the sky/bt money, some having commented for years that the economics and level of spending, borrowing and wages are not sustainable long term. Most clubs have had investment by owners converted into shares and added to the debts and would be in trouble without it. The Coates family seem to have been pretty successful at aligning their business with economic trends over the years and if they are moving to a self sustainable business model it will in all probability not be just a guess. With the wealthier clubs their larger merchandising operations generate extra income but less wealthy clubs follow the old practice of selling players on, usually younger players at a profit, Southampton for example seem good at this. We have invested heavily in our academy and signed a number of young players which would seem to fit in with this thinking. As to the question is Peter Coates a problem in my view he is one that a lot of clubs and supporters wish they had and at the end of the day it is the family's club and money and I think that the club is in a far better position now than before their involvement. Undeniable.
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Post by 3putts on May 27, 2017 18:14:29 GMT
Is it just Hughes who's fucking everything up or is our lack of investment compared to other clubs the reason that we've gone backwards. We seem to have a small club mentality and all the board members seem old with a lack of fresh ideas. being saying this for a while now.i fear that the club is being used for bet 365 business,and you have to remember they state a few years ago that the club had to stand on its on two feet. haha if thats the case long may it well continue
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on May 27, 2017 19:34:42 GMT
Over the last few years the club has spent its capital facilities budget on the training facilities, and rightly so, that what attracts the players.
Now that the training facilities are complete, that budget is being spent on the stadium, if we stay in the premier league I suspect that there will be continual improvement year on year.
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Post by Lesalanos on May 28, 2017 7:23:28 GMT
Yeah, massive problem...The sooner Smurph finds a buyer for PVFC and pumps his Billions into SCFC the better...FFS I think he means we are fortunate to have Coates and not a owner such as a smurthwaite.
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Post by kernowpaul on May 28, 2017 10:14:25 GMT
Coates is not a problem .if we are going to spend BIG we need players with a sell on value.i dont think the youth system has worked for some reason that needs to be looked at
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Post by primmerz on May 28, 2017 10:57:55 GMT
Watford have promised there new manager good funds... West Bromwich got buckets to invest with. We really arnt keeping up with the pace. Yes because Hughes spent his money wisely didn't he. Coates will always give investment but i'm sure he'll be a little more cautious. Just because he hasn't come out and said Hughes has got an unlimited budget doesn't mean we can't keep up with watford and west brom.
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Post by songthrush01 on May 28, 2017 11:01:24 GMT
propaganda is out in force by the club today i see,rooney my arse.
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Post by chiswickpotter on May 28, 2017 11:37:00 GMT
With Coates' cash, the stadium should be one of the best outside the top few. Despite the new corner it's still a run down ageing disjointed unappealing shambles. Coates can answer to that one. Over the last few windows we're about 50m short (conservatively) of what should have been invested to keep us progressing. Coates can answer to that too. *When I say Coates, I mean the CEO and all his minions but really it sits with PC overall to keep pushing us on. Just to be clear, you would have liked Coates to - spend say £10 million on the ground in addition to the recent £ multi-million pitch upgrade - spend another £50 million on players which would only be possible via a gift (i.e. An equity injection) of this money to the club as any other approach such as raising debt would probably lead to a points deduction under financial fair play - pay the wages of the new £50 million players even though ourwages are already 79% of our turnover and again this approach would probably lead to a points deduction under FFP The arguments in this thread completely misunderstand the financial rules clubs not operate under. Very few owners have put in as much as Coates and without him our £50 million debt would be most likely unsustainable. We spent £51 million in 2015/16 and bought Allen and Berahino last season as well as keeping our wage bill at a high share of turnover. The idea the tap is being turned off has no basis in fact.Then the idea that there is an owner somewhere willing to "GIVE" and we need to be clear this is the ask, this is not an investment with a chance of return, Stoke City £100 million or more is just fantasy. The owner is not the problem, he is the only possible option unless we fancy becoming a Portsmouth or similar
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Post by retired1 on May 28, 2017 11:42:53 GMT
Is it just Hughes who's fucking everything up or is our lack of investment compared to other clubs the reason that we've gone backwards. We seem to have a small club mentality and all the board members seem old with a lack of fresh ideas. We have had and will continue to have a small club mentality regardless of the owner. But who other than The Coates family who have ploughed millions into the club would want to take it on? Anyone fancy a Blacknurn Hull Sunderland Leeds Forest Wolves Villa etc etc etc foreign owner. Where are all those clubs now? We would go through managers like a warm knife thru butter just like all those now in the lower divisions.
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Post by songthrush01 on May 28, 2017 12:52:59 GMT
Is it just Hughes who's fucking everything up or is our lack of investment compared to other clubs the reason that we've gone backwards. We seem to have a small club mentality and all the board members seem old with a lack of fresh ideas. We have had and will continue to have a small club mentality regardless of the owner. But who other than The Coates family who have ploughed millions into the club would want to take it on? Anyone fancy a Blacknurn Hull Sunderland Leeds Forest Wolves Villa etc etc etc foreign owner. Where are all those clubs now? We would go through managers like a warm knife thru butter just like all those now in the lower divisions. the money people keep saying they ploughed in,they got back and for a while are now making through bet 365.they gambled and it come off,they do run a betting business you know,and this rubbish of be careful what you wishful has lost its excuses now.
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Post by lordb on May 28, 2017 12:57:37 GMT
The recruitment has been an issue, not Coates. I am sure he expected all the players like Bojan, Wooly and Joselu and Imbula to have worked out but they haven't. He's spent the money Anyone expecting all signings to work out is doomed to disappointment.
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Post by Paul Spencer on May 28, 2017 13:36:34 GMT
With Coates' cash, the stadium should be one of the best outside the top few. Despite the new corner it's still a run down ageing disjointed unappealing shambles. Coates can answer to that one. Over the last few windows we're about 50m short (conservatively) of what should have been invested to keep us progressing. Coates can answer to that too. *When I say Coates, I mean the CEO and all his minions but really it sits with PC overall to keep pushing us on. Just to be clear, you would have liked Coates to - spend say £10 million on the ground in addition to the recent £ multi-million pitch upgrade - spend another £50 million on players which would only be possible via a gift (i.e. An equity injection) of this money to the club as any other approach such as raising debt would probably lead to a points deduction under financial fair play - pay the wages of the new £50 million players even though ourwages are already 79% of our turnover and again this approach would probably lead to a points deduction under FFP The arguments in this thread completely misunderstand the financial rules clubs not operate under. Very few owners have put in as much as Coates and without him our £50 million debt would be most likely unsustainable. We spent £51 million in 2015/16 and bought Allen and Berahino last season as well as keeping our wage bill at a high share of turnover. The idea the tap is being turned off has no basis in fact.Then the idea that there is an owner somewhere willing to "GIVE" and we need to be clear this is the ask, this is not an investment with a chance of return, Stoke City £100 million or more is just fantasy. The owner is not the problem, he is the only possible option unless we fancy becoming a Portsmouth or similar Chiswick you really need to learn how to use the 'quote' function correctly. I suspect that sadly the majority of your posts get missed because you haven't grasped how to use it.
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Post by slother on May 28, 2017 14:32:47 GMT
Coates is obviously the reason we are where we are but probably also the reason we'll go no further. We're run to be self sufficient, not as the plaything of some distant kleptocrat. There's an honour and a dignity to that, but it's also the reason anything more than relegation is a win and why we need to wring out every last ounce of Glenn Whelan and Geoff Cameron.
Can you see it changing anything time soon? Unless Coates floats the club on the stock exchange and corporate success for the club is about maximising the share price, but I suspect it's all worth too much for bet365 - the golden goose - for that.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using proboards
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Post by retired1 on May 28, 2017 14:33:16 GMT
We have had and will continue to have a small club mentality regardless of the owner. But who other than The Coates family who have ploughed millions into the club would want to take it on? Anyone fancy a Blacknurn Hull Sunderland Leeds Forest Wolves Villa etc etc etc foreign owner. Where are all those clubs now? We would go through managers like a warm knife thru butter just like all those now in the lower divisions. the money people keep saying they ploughed in,they got back and for a while are now making through bet 365.they gambled and it come off,they do run a betting business you know,and this rubbish of be careful what you wishful has lost its excuses now. Take a pickup and put a big sign on the back saying Coates and Hughes out then. Thanks for telling me the company they run. I wouldn't have guessed. So tell everyone who you think should buy SCFC and who should manage it. And be careful what you wish for.
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SCFC12
Academy Starlet
Posts: 192
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Post by SCFC12 on May 28, 2017 15:20:51 GMT
The club is way too nice. Needs to be more ruthless. Loads of players been here for far too long.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 15:33:58 GMT
I never thought Stoke would even grace the premier league, i am forever grateful to Coates for that and would never question his decisions. Hughes has arguably done better on a tighter budget, so going back to that seems a good move until he has earned a few extra million. He has wasted money on big signings, now he has to be more thorough with his targets, it makes sense to me.
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Post by stokiejoe on May 28, 2017 15:38:17 GMT
No club has a perfect scouting system, all clubs make mistakes. Our club appears to be worse than most with a hit and miss approach. We have gained some bargains but our "record" purchases haven't turned out well. At least with home grown Academy players we know what we are getting but none have yet been given much opportunity to show their merits. Hughes can only go by what he is told, Coates provides the money and Scholes seals the deal. All three must rely to a great extent on the ability of our scouting network. It is there that we need to strengthen if we are to succeed.
I remember seeing on the Oatcake a posting by someone who had watched Imbula a few times, expressing his disbelief that we paid good money for him. We seem to have a FIFA 17 approach which must end.
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Post by alster on May 28, 2017 15:41:33 GMT
I never thought Stoke would even grace the premier league, i am forever grateful to Coates for that and would never question his decisions. Hughes has arguably done better on a tighter budget, so going back to that seems a good move until he has earned a few extra million. He has wasted money on big signings, now he has to be more thorough with his targets, it makes sense to me. It doesn't make a blind bit of sense. All it does is risk our Premier league future. For the sake of sentimentality in that you don't think its fair to sack a manager you don't really trust. The squad is crying out for investment not to provide it could be suicide.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2017 15:48:21 GMT
No club has a perfect scouting system, all clubs make mistakes. Our club appears to be worse than most with a hit and miss approach. We have gained some bargains but our "record" purchases haven't turned out well. At least with home grown Academy players we know what we are getting but none have yet been given much opportunity to show their merits. Hughes can only go by what he is told, Coates provides the money and Scholes seals the deal. All three must rely to a great extent on the ability of our scouting network. It is there that we need to strengthen if we are to succeed. I remember seeing on the Oatcake a posting by someone who had watched Imbula a few times, expressing his disbelief that we paid good money for him. We seem to have a FIFA 17 approach which must end. To be fair Imbula seemed a bit of a beast of a signing when he came. The problem can only be the player, there is a fantastic player in him, does he realise it or does he even care? Trying to take players on whilst on the edge of our 18 yard box wasn't his best move, and to do it over and over was naive. I was quite shocked at how poor he started the season, i like many others expected so much more.
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