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Post by PotterLog on Apr 10, 2017 17:35:45 GMT
Isn't it his injury the reason why he can't back to the same levels as his first season!? ACL injuries players rarely come back the same. So what's his excuse at every other club he's played for? Every other club apart from one of football history's best club sides where he played over 100 games
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 10, 2017 17:52:18 GMT
Bojan,since his inception into the Barcelona team,has had his spells and then flattered to deceive.The reason he's moved from club to club and is now languishing around the bench at Mainz is because he isn't good enough to nail down a position in any team he's played for.Injury or not,he's either mentally fragile or just not good enough to compete in the modern game I agree its not the injury and I believe he's technically good enough to play at the top level - it's an attitude thing. He seems to have a sense of entitlement and wants everything on a plate - he doesn't have that drive or killer instinct to make it at the top level. Dragging Bojan into a debate about Hughes is completely bogus. Bojan has failed under very manager he's played for. It is sad - technically one of the best players ever to put on a Stoke shirt - but we can't afford passengers regardless of who is managing the team. And to answer the question - having a player who can't hold down a place in a side genuinely threatened with relegation would make our situation worse. Anybody who thinks otherwise is clutching at straws.
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Post by pottersrule on Apr 10, 2017 20:38:22 GMT
So what's his excuse at every other club he's played for? Every other club apart from one of football history's best club sides where he played over 100 games I'd look good in that team.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 20:43:39 GMT
Every other club apart from one of football history's best club sides where he played over 100 games I'd look good in that team. And for us, he needs no excuse, he's been one of our best players up until about april last season. Since then he's started 5 games i think.
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Post by PotterLog on Apr 10, 2017 20:58:26 GMT
Bojan,since his inception into the Barcelona team,has had his spells and then flattered to deceive.The reason he's moved from club to club and is now languishing around the bench at Mainz is because he isn't good enough to nail down a position in any team he's played for.Injury or not,he's either mentally fragile or just not good enough to compete in the modern game I agree its not the injury and I believe he's technically good enough to play at the top level - it's an attitude thing. He seems to have a sense of entitlement and wants everything on a plate - he doesn't have that drive or killer instinct to make it at the top level. Dragging Bojan into a debate about Hughes is completely bogus. Bojan has failed under very manager he's played for. It is sad - technically one of the best players ever to put on a Stoke shirt - but we can't afford passengers regardless of who is managing the team. And to answer the question - having a player who can't hold down a place in a side genuinely threatened with relegation would make our situation worse. Anybody who thinks otherwise is clutching at straws. You're entitled to your opinion about his role for us now, but to say he's "failed" under every manager he's played for is absolute nonsense. Leaving aside his already-mentioned ONE HUNDRED APPEARANCES FOR BARCELONA, it's also an insult to a large chunk of his time with us when he assisted and scored some magnificent goals and was, at times, far and away our best player.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Apr 10, 2017 21:55:06 GMT
Two things have blighted this magician - a dreadful injury and Hughes ineptitude in getting the best out of him - one could conceivably make a case that Hughes should not have even played Bojan against Rochdale and the dodgy surface and give one of the fringe players have a go but ''twas not to be
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2017 22:02:13 GMT
Two things have blighted this magician - a dreadful injury and Hughes ineptitude in getting the best out of him - one could conceivably make a case that Hughes should not have even played Bojan against Rochdale and the dodgy surface and give one of the fringe players have a go but ''twas not to be And the reason he went from Barcelona to mid-table Premier League Stoke in the space of a few seasons? I really like Bojan as a player but come on, his career path suggests there is something within that's not right as well......
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 11, 2017 1:49:43 GMT
I said two games into his return that he was finished. Called it about Odemwingie too. It's obvious when a player has 'gone'. Why others can't see it I'll never know. Bojan is finished at the top level. Has Whelan "gone"?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 6:49:00 GMT
We really don't help ourselves with these four year contracts. First, we seek to extend them in advance of the final year, and the money we've spent being stuck with players that have fallen out of favour, been replaced or just not good enough must be quite scary.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 11, 2017 7:28:48 GMT
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Post by kidcrewbob on Apr 11, 2017 7:58:41 GMT
Two things have blighted this magician - a dreadful injury and Hughes ineptitude in getting the best out of him - one could conceivably make a case that Hughes should not have even played Bojan against Rochdale and the dodgy surface and give one of the fringe players have a go but ''twas not to be And the reason he went from Barcelona to mid-table Premier League Stoke in the space of a few seasons? I really like Bojan as a player but come on, his career path suggests there is something within that's not right as well...... fair comment - possibly a crisis of confidence - with all the galacticos at Barca it can be easy to become overawed i expect......I find it difficult to accept that there is no way back for him - given the proper support and guidance ie not from Hughes & his motley crew.....all IMHO of course...
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Apr 11, 2017 8:16:46 GMT
Bojans problem is all in his head. He was never really a "big tackler" but he came back after his injury and he looked scared of getting hurt by opposition players.
When Bojan thinks about what hes going to do then it all goes wrong. Hes a player that needs to do things without thinking about them and then he can be sublime.
In his defence I think Hughes didnt use him intelligently this season. Coming on as a sub for 30 minutes to change things around is not Bojan's game and never will be.
But its a 2-way thing. Off the ball he became a complete passenger and doesnt even occupy space. For me that is unacceptable and unfair to his team-mates. David Silva is a bit of a pussy but you never get the impression hes not WORKING HARD for his team.
Bojan doesnt need to go diving into tackles but dont just let players walk past you with the ball every single time.
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Post by FullerMagic on Apr 11, 2017 10:45:00 GMT
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Post by sheikhmomo on Apr 11, 2017 10:54:24 GMT
Meanwhile according to the Sentinel we're going to give Stpehen blimmin Ireland a new contract
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Post by nutterpotter on Apr 11, 2017 12:01:32 GMT
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Apr 11, 2017 12:33:00 GMT
I agree its not the injury and I believe he's technically good enough to play at the top level - it's an attitude thing. He seems to have a sense of entitlement and wants everything on a plate - he doesn't have that drive or killer instinct to make it at the top level. Dragging Bojan into a debate about Hughes is completely bogus. Bojan has failed under very manager he's played for. It is sad - technically one of the best players ever to put on a Stoke shirt - but we can't afford passengers regardless of who is managing the team. And to answer the question - having a player who can't hold down a place in a side genuinely threatened with relegation would make our situation worse. Anybody who thinks otherwise is clutching at straws. You're entitled to your opinion about his role for us now, but to say he's "failed" under every manager he's played for is absolute nonsense. Leaving aside his already-mentioned ONE HUNDRED APPEARANCES FOR BARCELONA, it's also an insult to a large chunk of his time with us when he assisted and scored some magnificent goals and was, at times, far and away our best player. He certainly showed promise at Barcelona - but when it came to establishing his place in the side the manager thought otherwise. Before he came to Stoke he was given chances at other clubs and he didn't take them. He struggled at the start for Stoke but just before he got injury he really started to look the part (it's this period that everyone who wants him back harks back to) but since his comeback apart from the very occasional glimmer of what he can do he's been a passenger and he's shown nothing at Mainz to show he's worthy of a place in our first team. It's desperately sad - I would have loved to have seen Bojan succeed at Stoke - on his day he is one of the best footballers I've seen live. I'm not out to insult him - but in the cold objective light of day I see a footballer who simply hasn't lived up to his potential. His injury may have played a part and it certainly isn't his technical ability - he just doesn't have that edge/spark/grit whatever you call it that's needed to succeed at the very top.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Apr 11, 2017 12:44:53 GMT
The way his career is headed he will be playing for the Vale in the conference in 3 years.
What the fuck has gone so wrong for a player of his talent?
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Post by ElworthPotter on Apr 11, 2017 12:58:36 GMT
You're entitled to your opinion about his role for us now, but to say he's "failed" under every manager he's played for is absolute nonsense. Leaving aside his already-mentioned ONE HUNDRED APPEARANCES FOR BARCELONA, it's also an insult to a large chunk of his time with us when he assisted and scored some magnificent goals and was, at times, far and away our best player. He certainly showed promise at Barcelona - but when it came to establishing his place in the side the manager thought otherwise. Before he came to Stoke he was given chances at other clubs and he didn't take them. He struggled at the start for Stoke but just before he got injury he really started to look the part (it's this period that everyone who wants him back harks back to) but since his comeback apart from the very occasional glimmer of what he can do he's been a passenger and he's shown nothing at Mainz to show he's worthy of a place in our first team. It's desperately sad - I would have loved to have seen Bojan succeed at Stoke - on his day he is one of the best footballers I've seen live. I'm not out to insult him - but in the cold objective light of day I see a footballer who simply hasn't lived up to his potential. His injury may have played a part and it certainly isn't his technical ability - he just doesn't have that edge/spark/grit whatever you call it that's needed to succeed at the very top. Agree with this. For 6-8 weeks before his injury he was the best player I've seen play for Stoke and I really thought he was going to take off and become the player he always showed promise that he could be. However since his injury pepelepeu is right. He's had a game or two here and there, a touch of brilliance every now and again but never got anywhere near the level he was beforehand. Whether it's a psychological effect of his injury or physical in that his body cant get back to that level I don't know but he was a passenger far too often when he was given a chance this season and I don't think he's done enough to warrant getting back in. I'd love him to prove otherwise, mind.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Apr 11, 2017 12:58:41 GMT
He isn't tearing it up in Germany but then he didn't here at first either, we've also got much much better players to bring the best out of him Is there any reason why 4-2-3-1 with Allen and Cameron as the 2 with Bojan in front wouldn't work? Fuck we could even include Ramadan in a false 9 if Berahino is having an off day Honestly, Bojan out on loan was the day i made up my mind that i don't want Hughes here any more I don't really get the "...better players to bring the best out of him" argument. Really good players are able to impose themselves on games, be the standout player in a poor team and try and raise the performance of the team in general. It's actually shocking that he can't seem to get game time in a crap German team. It's not always everyone else's fault he needs to take some personal accountability. Sad to say but he looks done.
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Post by werrington on Apr 11, 2017 13:05:59 GMT
He's tweeted
I want to clarify that, contrary to reports in some of the press, I haven't offered myself to any clubs, including RCD Espanyol.
I'm under contract at Stoke City and right now I am just focused on helping Mainz and continuing to work hard until my loan is up. 2/2
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2017 13:56:02 GMT
He isn't tearing it up in Germany but then he didn't here at first either, we've also got much much better players to bring the best out of him Is there any reason why 4-2-3-1 with Allen and Cameron as the 2 with Bojan in front wouldn't work? Fuck we could even include Ramadan in a false 9 if Berahino is having an off day Honestly, Bojan out on loan was the day i made up my mind that i don't want Hughes here any more I don't really get the "...better players to bring the best out of him" argument. Really good players are able to impose themselves on games, be the standout player in a poor team and try and raise the performance of the team in general. It's actually shocking that he can't seem to get game time in a crap German team. It's not always everyone else's fault he needs to take some personal accountability. Sad to say but he looks done. You're right and wrong with that statement IMO. It's not always about better players dragging you along, true, but what if the players you are playing with aren't on the same page? That mysterious football Chemistry? It's all ifs and buts, but what if Bojan was playing alongside Saido now? Would they both bring the best out in each other, with one's movement being the perfect yin to the others passing yang? It's one of those daft things in football that has just seen Wes Morgan captain a team to the Premier League title. In any other situation, any other team and probably in any other league he would be shown up for the donkey he is. Alongside Huth, Fuchs and Danny Simpson with Kante in front of him he looks a world beater. The chances of those mish-mash of abilities and characters being thrown together to create the ultimate force again are low to impossible. Sometimes it just 'happens'. You just don't know; neither do we and neither do professional coaches and managers else they'd all be at it.
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Post by mrred on Apr 11, 2017 14:12:02 GMT
He isn't tearing it up in Germany but then he didn't here at first either, we've also got much much better players to bring the best out of him Is there any reason why 4-2-3-1 with Allen and Cameron as the 2 with Bojan in front wouldn't work? Fuck we could even include Ramadan in a false 9 if Berahino is having an off day Honestly, Bojan out on loan was the day i made up my mind that i don't want Hughes here any more I don't really get the "...better players to bring the best out of him" argument. Really good players are able to impose themselves on games, be the standout player in a poor team and try and raise the performance of the team in general. It's actually shocking that he can't seem to get game time in a crap German team. It's not always everyone else's fault he needs to take some personal accountability. Sad to say but he looks done. Said it once, I'll say it again. With Bojan- it's always someone else's fault. The amount of fans responding to him on twitter makes me a bit nauseous to be honest. "Come home Bo". "You're far too good to be out on loan". Well, clearly not.
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Post by pez75 on Apr 11, 2017 14:18:05 GMT
Bojan is great in a team that has the ball for large parts of the game. When in a team that concedes a lot of possession he becomes more of a passenger. You either build a team around him and play to his strengths or say ta-ta. Shaqiri is of a similar ilk but as he plays out wide at Stoke as long as he tracks his full-back a couple of times it is less glaringly obvious.
This is why Mahrez was such a revelation at Leicester last season but has looked like a pub player for the first half of this one, you could say simlar of Payet and half the arsenal team. David Silva at City. You need the balance of work-rate and quality throughout the team to afford these luxury players and get the best out of them. Team them up with a Glenn Whelan and you will end up disappointed.
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Apr 11, 2017 14:22:32 GMT
Let's face a few things with Bojan.
He (& Imbula) were both dragged off at half time against Wolves, and are often the two who receive the most blame for that result. Yet the person who was responsible for our other cup exit is rewarded with constant starts & sub appearances (the latter didn't stop him being taken off on saturday)
He is known to have anxiety problems, which are part of the reason he ended up here. A point that many on here probably don't recognize, instead they'll tell him to 'man up' or whatever nonsense. Dropping him after a good game (Leicester at home) really doesn't help.
The idea he has no desire to play football is rubbish. Why would he go to Mainz then?
I hope he gets over his anxiety issues and comes back to Stoke under a new manager and has a great time
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Post by liamo on Apr 11, 2017 14:30:56 GMT
I don't really get the "...better players to bring the best out of him" argument. Really good players are able to impose themselves on games, be the standout player in a poor team and try and raise the performance of the team in general. It's actually shocking that he can't seem to get game time in a crap German team. It's not always everyone else's fault he needs to take some personal accountability. Sad to say but he looks done. Said it once, I'll say it again. With Bojan- it's always someone else's fault. The amount of fans responding to him on twitter makes me a bit nauseous to be honest. "Come home Bo". "You're far too good to be out on loan". Well, clearly not. So our current attack is better without Bojan? Really? How come 90% of the team has performed just as bad if not worse than Bojan this season but are now still regular starters when Bojan couldn't even get on as a sub and was fucked off to Germany? Would Walters or Adam tear it up for Mainz? We'll never know where we'd be if we'd stuck with our most used 4-2-3-1 instead of Hughes nuking everything and square pegging round holes to the point we've gone full circle back in time to the boring shit Pulis served up before getting canned I'd be willing to bet that something would have clicked and we wouldn't be praying we beat Hull so we can avoid any talk of a relegation scrap now
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Post by Gods on Apr 11, 2017 14:34:53 GMT
Meanwhile according to the Sentinel we're going to give Stpehen blimmin Ireland a new contract Excellent, you had me going for a minute there you bounder!
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Post by mrred on Apr 11, 2017 14:42:08 GMT
Said it once, I'll say it again. With Bojan- it's always someone else's fault. The amount of fans responding to him on twitter makes me a bit nauseous to be honest. "Come home Bo". "You're far too good to be out on loan". Well, clearly not. So our current attack is better without Bojan? Really? How come 90% of the team has performed just as bad if not worse than Bojan this season but are now still regular starters when Bojan couldn't even get on as a sub and was fucked off to Germany? Would Walters or Adam tear it up for Mainz? We'll never know where we'd be if we'd stuck with our most used 4-2-3-1 instead of Hughes nuking everything and square pegging round holes to the point we've gone full circle back in time to the boring shit Pulis served up before getting canned I'd be willing to bet that something would have clicked and we wouldn't be praying we beat Hull so we can avoid any talk of a relegation scrap now Probably, bit of a silly point to make. I'd argue that we'd probably be no different or worse off with him in this squad this season. If we apply that logic, why hasn't he made any sort of impact for Mainz or at least galvanized their attack? He's been a bit part player. Why? Because he's not 'that' player anymore. The sooner people accept that the better. How many chances at flattering to deceive does he need?
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Post by liamo on Apr 11, 2017 14:56:48 GMT
So our current attack is better without Bojan? Really? How come 90% of the team has performed just as bad if not worse than Bojan this season but are now still regular starters when Bojan couldn't even get on as a sub and was fucked off to Germany? Would Walters or Adam tear it up for Mainz? We'll never know where we'd be if we'd stuck with our most used 4-2-3-1 instead of Hughes nuking everything and square pegging round holes to the point we've gone full circle back in time to the boring shit Pulis served up before getting canned I'd be willing to bet that something would have clicked and we wouldn't be praying we beat Hull so we can avoid any talk of a relegation scrap now Probably, bit of a silly point to make. I'd argue that we'd probably be no different or worse off with him in this squad this season. If we apply your logic, why hasn't he made any sort of impact for Mainz or at least galvanized their attack? He's been a bit part player. Why? Because he's not 'that' player anymore. The sooner people accept that the better. Why does Bojan have to prove himself in a Bundesliga relegation fight while 90% of the squad is getting a free pass? I don't know why he hasn't made an impact in the Mainz team and i don't really care tbh, i'm more bothered about the impact he might have had on our season N'zonzi left, Hughes failed to replace him on numerous occasions, Bojan (No.10 position in it's entirety) gets dropped in favour of a defensive midfielder masquerading as a No.10 and here we are now, the only attacking midfielders we have are on the flanks and we've got nobody capable of linking up with Berahino centrally
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Post by mrred on Apr 11, 2017 15:12:13 GMT
Probably, bit of a silly point to make. I'd argue that we'd probably be no different or worse off with him in this squad this season. If we apply your logic, why hasn't he made any sort of impact for Mainz or at least galvanized their attack? He's been a bit part player. Why? Because he's not 'that' player anymore. The sooner people accept that the better. Why does Bojan have to prove himself in a Bundesliga relegation fight while 90% of the squad is getting a free pass? I don't know why he hasn't made an impact in the Mainz team and i don't really care tbh, i'm more bothered about the impact he might have had on our season N'zonzi left, Hughes failed to replace him on numerous occasions, Bojan (No.10 position in it's entirety) gets dropped in favour of a defensive midfielder masquerading as a No.10 and here we are now, the only attacking midfielders we have are on the flanks and we've got nobody capable of linking up with Berahino centrally The unfortunate truth is there mate. He's got to prove himself because he's been given a platform to play first team football, as he wanted. Let's not pretend he was just cast off into the night, he was willing to go somewhere to get first team football. He's not that magician we bought. His injury, whether physically or the mental impact it had (coupled with his anxiety issues) have seen to that. I'm happy to be proven wrong. In fact I'd love to be proven wrong as he was a joy to watch and we'd kill for creativity like that in this squad. But the decline his own game has had since returning is there, we've all seen it, now Mainz are seeing it. If Bojan comes back, Hughes goes and a new manager takes him under his wing, I'll happily say right here- I was dead wrong about Bojan.
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Post by liamo on Apr 11, 2017 15:30:45 GMT
Why does Bojan have to prove himself in a Bundesliga relegation fight while 90% of the squad is getting a free pass? I don't know why he hasn't made an impact in the Mainz team and i don't really care tbh, i'm more bothered about the impact he might have had on our season N'zonzi left, Hughes failed to replace him on numerous occasions, Bojan (No.10 position in it's entirety) gets dropped in favour of a defensive midfielder masquerading as a No.10 and here we are now, the only attacking midfielders we have are on the flanks and we've got nobody capable of linking up with Berahino centrally The unfortunate truth is there mate. He's got to prove himself because he's been given a platform to play first team football, as he wanted. Let's not pretend he was just cast off into the night, he was willing to go somewhere to get first team football. He's not that magician we bought. His injury, whether physically or the mental impact it had (coupled with his anxiety issues) have seen to that. I'm happy to be proven wrong. In fact I'd love to be proven wrong as he was a joy to watch and we'd kill for creativity like that in this squad. But the decline his own game has had since returning is there, we've all seen it, now Mainz are seeing it. If Bojan comes back, Hughes goes and a new manager takes him under his wing, I'll happily say right here- I was dead wrong about Bojan. I do see your point, Bojan's form obviously slumped and he obviously wanted a platform to prove he's still a good player, i just don't understand why we let him leave and not give him the platform here with the rest of the underperformers, the whole squad needs to prove that they're better than what they've shown recently All i see now is a gaping hole where an attacking midfielder should be, a striker that needs service and someone to link up with and absolutely no options to fix it
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