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Post by adamsson on Apr 8, 2017 19:26:31 GMT
On a good day he is one of the best players in the world a real game changer we have no one else who can match him at his best
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Apr 8, 2017 19:27:51 GMT
Well not Bojan unfortunately he was never the same player after his injury.
If he was never the same player after his injury, why did Hughes give him a new five and a half year contract, six months after he came back from his injury?
I Imagine he hoped that he wouyld get back to how he was, not sure its down to hughes anyway more Cartwright
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 8, 2017 19:31:20 GMT
If he was never the same player after his injury, why did Hughes give him a new five and a half year contract, six months after he came back from his injury?
I Imagine he hoped that he wouyld get back to how he was, not sure its down to hughes anyway more Cartwright
You don't give a player who has not been the same since his injury SIX MONTHS after returning from it a FIVE AND A HALF YEAR contract based on a hope that one day he might 'get back to how he was'.
It's a £10 million pound contract.
You're seriously going with this as a suggestion?
Why is it not down to Hughes, are you suggesting that we're dishing out massive contracts to players that he doesn't even want?
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Apr 8, 2017 19:35:43 GMT
I Imagine he hoped that he wouyld get back to how he was, not sure its down to hughes anyway more Cartwright
You don't give a player who has not been the same since his injury SIX MONTHS after returning from it a FIVE AND A HALF YEAR contract based on a hope that one day he might 'get back to how he was'.
It's a £10 million pound contract.
You're seriously going with this as a suggestion?
Why is it not down to Hughes, are you suggesting that we're dishing out massive contracts to players that he doesn't even want?
Not saying Hughes didnt want him but Hughes doesnt negotiate the contracts. He negotiated a new contract in 2016 which ends in 2020. An 18 mth extension to his original contract I believe It was also used to make Arny make his mind up to stay
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Post by wagsastokie on Apr 8, 2017 19:42:21 GMT
Yes
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 8, 2017 19:46:05 GMT
You don't give a player who has not been the same since his injury SIX MONTHS after returning from it a FIVE AND A HALF YEAR contract based on a hope that one day he might 'get back to how he was'.
It's a £10 million pound contract.
You're seriously going with this as a suggestion?
Why is it not down to Hughes, are you suggesting that we're dishing out massive contracts to players that he doesn't even want?
Not saying Hughes didnt want him but Hughes doesnt negotiate the contracts. He negotiated a new contract in 2016 which ends in 2020. An 18 mth extension to his original contract I believe It was also used to make Arny make his mind up to stay
Of course he doesn't negotiate the contracts but he tells the people who do, who he wants and they don't then just take a flyer on how much he actually value's that player.
Fact of the matter is, that at roughly the same time, we dished out two absolutely huge contracts to Bojan and Imbula based on Mark Hughes' say so and within a few months, he decided that he didn't actually fancy them anymore.
That isn't going to go unnoticed by the people who matter.
And if you think it is clear that Bojan never recovered from his injury, then surely you must be calling into question the actual judgement of Mark Hughes?
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Apr 8, 2017 19:47:12 GMT
He got dropped after a good performance v Leicester. He's a confidence player so no doubt that wouldn't have helped (The 'man up' people on here will disagree)
He & Imbula were dragged off against Wolves at half time in the cup. Yet certain other players in that midfield 2/3 have had worse performances than those two in that game and they start the new game.
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Post by liamo on Apr 8, 2017 19:49:07 GMT
He isn't tearing it up in Germany but then he didn't here at first either, we've also got much much better players to bring the best out of him
Is there any reason why 4-2-3-1 with Allen and Cameron as the 2 with Bojan in front wouldn't work? Fuck we could even include Ramadan in a false 9 if Berahino is having an off day
Honestly, Bojan out on loan was the day i made up my mind that i don't want Hughes here any more
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Apr 8, 2017 19:49:10 GMT
Not saying Hughes didnt want him but Hughes doesnt negotiate the contracts. He negotiated a new contract in 2016 which ends in 2020. An 18 mth extension to his original contract I believe It was also used to make Arny make his mind up to stay
Of course he doesn't negotiate the contracts but he tells the people who do, who he wants and they don't then just take a flyer on how much he actually value's that player.
Fact of the matter is, that at roughly the same time, we dished out two absolutely huge contracts to Bojan and Imbula based on Mark Hughes' say so and within a few months, he decided that he didn't actually fancy them anymore.
That isn't going to go unnoticed by the people who matter.
And if you think it is clear that Bojan never recovered from his injury, then surely you must be calling into question the actual judgement of Mark Hughes?
Where do you get the 5 and a half years from? www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/stoke-city-boss-mark-hughes-confident-bojan-s-new-deal-will-convince-marko-arnautovic-to-stay-a6868066.htmlused him as a pawn to lure Arny
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 8, 2017 19:51:43 GMT
Of course he doesn't negotiate the contracts but he tells the people who do, who he wants and they don't then just take a flyer on how much he actually value's that player.
Fact of the matter is, that at roughly the same time, we dished out two absolutely huge contracts to Bojan and Imbula based on Mark Hughes' say so and within a few months, he decided that he didn't actually fancy them anymore.
That isn't going to go unnoticed by the people who matter.
And if you think it is clear that Bojan never recovered from his injury, then surely you must be calling into question the actual judgement of Mark Hughes?
Where do you get the 5 and a half years from? www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/stoke-city-boss-mark-hughes-confident-bojan-s-new-deal-will-convince-marko-arnautovic-to-stay-a6868066.htmlused him as a pawn to lure Arny
They ripped up his previous contract and added an extra four years to it, making it five and a half years.
Nice, that you completely ignored the points I made in the post though ...
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Apr 8, 2017 19:56:24 GMT
They ripped up his previous contract and added an extra four years to it, making it five and a half years.
Nice, that you completely ignored the points I made in the post though ...
So it wasnt a 5 and a half year contract really he signed it in 2016b and it ends in 2020. No not questioning Hughes in this case he used a sprat to catch a mackerel
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Post by trickydicky73 on Apr 8, 2017 19:59:11 GMT
The answer to your question in no. He's worse. Would we be better with him? Open to debate. Are we any fucking better without him? Are we shit and this is evidence of the managers increasingly puddled mind. He truly doesn't know what the fuck he's doing. If Hughes was a painting, he'd be a Jackson Pollock on LSD.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 8, 2017 20:01:11 GMT
They ripped up his previous contract and added an extra four years to it, making it five and a half years.
Nice, that you completely ignored the points I made in the post though ...
So it wasnt a 5 and a half year contract really he signed it in 2016b and it ends in 2020. No not questioning Hughes in this case he used a sprat to catch a mackerel
You're really joking now, surely?
You're going with he only gave Bojan (who clearly hadn't recovered from his injury) a massive new contract, just to make Arnie stay?
Seriously?
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Apr 8, 2017 20:05:07 GMT
So it wasnt a 5 and a half year contract really he signed it in 2016b and it ends in 2020. No not questioning Hughes in this case he used a sprat to catch a mackerel
You're really joking now, surely?
You're going with he only gave Bojan (who clearly hadn't recovered from his injury) a massive new contract, just to make Arnie stay?
Seriously?
not just for that no he obviously hoped he would get back to the old Bojan, not a 5 and a half year one though was it??
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Post by liamo on Apr 8, 2017 20:09:53 GMT
Money made Arnie stay, wasn't the oatcakes or the promise of playing with Bojan
As for Bojan, is it more likely that he'd improve us at the moment or make us worse? Like i always said, Bojan having a bad day would mean not scoring/creating, he should have only ever been judged on what happened in the opposition half, he wasn't having the best of times earlier in the season granted but who was? The season has been shit overall
I honestly hope he outlasts Hughes, Imbula and Joselu too
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 20:12:07 GMT
He's so good he morphs into Jos and Ibi for a few seconds but that aside...I miss him dearly.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 8, 2017 20:14:54 GMT
You're really joking now, surely?
You're going with he only gave Bojan (who clearly hadn't recovered from his injury) a massive new contract, just to make Arnie stay?
Seriously?
not just for that no he obviously hoped he would get back to the old Bojan, not a 5 and a half year one though was it??
Ok a four year extension then but that alone would be worth £14,000,000.
If he was 'hoping he would get back to the old Bojan' why didn't Hughes just wait to find out if he did or didn't, Bojan was already contracted to us?
Doesn't the very fact that Hughes gave him an improved and extended contract prove that he had already got his answer on that score?
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Post by liamo on Apr 8, 2017 20:15:20 GMT
I can't watch that whole video, fuck hughes
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Apr 8, 2017 20:20:24 GMT
not just for that no he obviously hoped he would get back to the old Bojan, not a 5 and a half year one though was it??
Ok a four year extension then but that alone would be worth £14,000,000.
If he was 'hoping he would get to back to the old Bojan' why didn't Hughes just wait to find out if he did or didn't, Bojan was already contracted to us?
Doesn't the very fact that Hughes gave him an improved and extended contract prove that he had already got his answer on that score?
it was an 18mth extension. How do you know how much it was worth? Didnt people say that Muniesa was signed to help Bojan settle in? Like ive said it helped to get Arny to sign a new contract.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 8, 2017 20:25:24 GMT
Ok a four year extension then but that alone would be worth £14,000,000.
If he was 'hoping he would get to back to the old Bojan' why didn't Hughes just wait to find out if he did or didn't, Bojan was already contracted to us?
Doesn't the very fact that Hughes gave him an improved and extended contract prove that he had already got his answer on that score?
it was an 18mth extension. How do you know how much it was worth? Didnt people say that Muniesa was signed to help Bojan settle in? Like ive said it helped to get Arny to sign a new contract.
But it was four years on the new terms (that's the important bit).
Why give him the new terms (whatever they were worth) when we didn't have to, if Hughes was still waiting to find out if he'd recovered fully from his injury or not, it doesn't make sense to do so does it?
Why not just wait and find out?
Unless you're going with the theory that we gave him the new terms in order to make Arnie stay!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 20:27:19 GMT
Ok a four year extension then but that alone would be worth £14,000,000.
If he was 'hoping he would get to back to the old Bojan' why didn't Hughes just wait to find out if he did or didn't, Bojan was already contracted to us?
Doesn't the very fact that Hughes gave him an improved and extended contract prove that he had already got his answer on that score?
it was an 18mth extension. How do you know how much it was worth? Didnt people say that Muniesa was signed to help Bojan settle in? Like ive said it helped to get Arny to sign a new contract. If both of those statements are remotely true then there is another reason to sack Hughes.
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Apr 8, 2017 20:31:52 GMT
it was an 18mth extension. How do you know how much it was worth? Didnt people say that Muniesa was signed to help Bojan settle in? Like ive said it helped to get Arny to sign a new contract.
But it was four years on the new terms (that's the important bit). 18 mth extension is the important part .
Why give him the new terms (whatever they were worth) when we didn't have to, if Hughes was still waiting to find out if he'd recovered fully from his injury or not, it doesn't make sense to do so does it? To prove to his teammates we were seriously wanting to move forward.
Why not just wait and find out? Waiting might have had a detrimental affect on Arny.
Unless you're going with the theory that we gave him the new terms in order to make Arnie stay!
Yes because it helped to get him to sign. I remember Dalglish saying that he extended a players contract to persuade a striker to sign for Blackburn How do you know the monetary value of the contract that you keep quoting?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 8, 2017 20:41:07 GMT
But it was four years on the new terms (that's the important bit). 18 mth extension is the important part .
Why give him the new terms (whatever they were worth) when we didn't have to, if Hughes was still waiting to find out if he'd recovered fully from his injury or not, it doesn't make sense to do so does it? To prove to his teammates we were seriously wanting to move forward.
Why not just wait and find out? Waiting might have had a detrimental affect on Arny.
Unless you're going with the theory that we gave him the new terms in order to make Arnie stay!
Yes because it helped to get him to sign. I remember Dalglish saying that he extended a players contract to persuade a striker to sign for Blackburn How do you know the monetary value of the contract that you keep quoting?
It was reported at the time that his new terms put him on, or near parity with our top earners, which is widely believed to be £70k a week, it's quite simple maths after that.
What the actual amount is, is neither here nor there though ... the fact that you are suggesting that we gave a player who had had a serious injury and who (you say) quite clearly hadn't recovered from that injury an extended contract on improved terms so that we could get Arnie to sign his contract is just ridiculous.
You're trying to have your cake and eat it ... either Bojan had recovered sufficiently for Hughes to believe he was worth the new contract, or you are right and Bojan hadn't actually recovered and Hughes made a mistake giving a new contract to a player in the hope that he might get back to what he was, you can't have it both ways.
Personally I believe that Hughes did believe that Bojan was fully recovered when he gave him the new deal.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2017 20:44:03 GMT
Yes because it helped to get him to sign. I remember Dalglish saying that he extended a players contract to persuade a striker to sign for Blackburn How do you know the monetary value of the contract that you keep quoting?
It was reported at the time that his new terms put him on, or near parity with our top earners, which is widely believed to be £70k a week, it's quite simple maths after that.
What the actual amount is neither here nor there though ... the fact that you are suggesting that we gave a player who had had a serious injury and who (you say) quite clearly hadn't recovered from that injury an extended contract on improved terms so that we could get Arnie to sign his contract is just ridiculous.
You're trying to have your cake and eat it ... either Bojan had recovered sufficiently for Hughes to believe he was worth the new contract, or you are right and Bojan hadn't actually recovered and Hughes made a mistake giving a new contract to a player in the hope that he might get back to what he was, you can't have it both ways.
Personally I believe that Hughes did believe that Bojan was fully recovered when he gave him the new deal.
We have to believe that because anything else is just amateurish negligence on Hughes' part.
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Apr 8, 2017 20:44:25 GMT
Yes because it helped to get him to sign. I remember Dalglish saying that he extended a players contract to persuade a striker to sign for Blackburn How do you know the monetary value of the contract that you keep quoting?
It was reported at the time that his new terms put him on, or near parity with our top earners, which is widely believed to be £70k a week, it's quite simple maths after that.
What the actual amount is neither here nor there though ... the fact that you are suggesting that we gave a player who had had a serious injury and who (you say) quite clearly hadn't recovered from that injury an extended contract on improved terms so that we could get Arnie to sign his contract is just ridiculous.
You're trying to have your cake and eat it ... either Bojan had recovered sufficiently for Hughes to believe he was worth the new contract, or you are right and Bojan hadn't actually recovered and Hughes made a mistake giving a new contract to a player in the hope that he might get back to what he was, you can't have it both ways.
Personally I believe that Hughes did believe that Bojan was fully recovered when he gave him the new deal.
neither of us know the truth its all surmising. it happens in football though that players get signed to help others settle in.
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 8, 2017 20:47:55 GMT
On a good day he is one of the best players in the world a real game changer we have no one else who can match him at his best He can no longer match his best either
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 8, 2017 20:49:54 GMT
It was reported at the time that his new terms put him on, or near parity with our top earners, which is widely believed to be £70k a week, it's quite simple maths after that.
What the actual amount is neither here nor there though ... the fact that you are suggesting that we gave a player who had had a serious injury and who (you say) quite clearly hadn't recovered from that injury an extended contract on improved terms so that we could get Arnie to sign his contract is just ridiculous.
You're trying to have your cake and eat it ... either Bojan had recovered sufficiently for Hughes to believe he was worth the new contract, or you are right and Bojan hadn't actually recovered and Hughes made a mistake giving a new contract to a player in the hope that he might get back to what he was, you can't have it both ways.
Personally I believe that Hughes did believe that Bojan was fully recovered when he gave him the new deal.
neither of us know the truth its all surmising. it happens in football though that players get signed to help others settle in.
You don't give pay increases and contract extensions to players coming off the backs of very serious injuries who still clearly haven't recovered in order to do so though.
What you're suggesting, is making Hughes sound even more ridiculous.
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Post by pavel on Apr 8, 2017 20:50:24 GMT
Seriously ......no attacking threat no creativity etc etc I'm totally fucking baffled by his exclusion and loan away from the club Absolutely not as bad as we are seeing, at worst he gives us options, at best he can be a game changer. Mediocre for us this season with flashes of brilliance, but hung out todry in my opinion.
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Post by chesterfieldstokie on Apr 8, 2017 20:57:41 GMT
neither of us know the truth its all surmising. it happens in football though that players get signed to help others settle in.
You don't give pay increases and contract extensions to players coming off the backs of very serious injuries who still clearly haven't recovered in order to do so though.
What you're suggesting, is making Hughes sound even more ridiculous.
Like we did with Delap???
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Post by Paul Spencer on Apr 8, 2017 21:03:10 GMT
You don't give pay increases and contract extensions to players coming off the backs of very serious injuries who still clearly haven't recovered in order to do so though.
What you're suggesting, is making Hughes sound even more ridiculous.
Like we did with Delap???
Don't be ridiculous, they're not even remotely the same thing and you know it.
If you're seriously going to respond with stuff like this, then there's no point continuing with the discussion.
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