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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 10:14:36 GMT
I was questioning the amount we would save (wrong) and the fact that we're controlled by Brussels (also wrong) If we're independent from Brussels what was the referendum about? You said controlled though fella. We're not controlled by Brussels.....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 10:17:40 GMT
I was questioning the amount we would save (wrong) and the fact that we're controlled by Brussels (also wrong) Mate you're wrong. The Scotland finances are always divisive because there are a number of ways that they can be calculated. Basically it's disputed oil ownership. Geographically Scotland 'owns' about 80% of the oil fields. By population it 'owns' about 8%. So a big difference in net worth. There's loads of data but within seconds here's one from the BBC. Albeit using figures from 2012/13...... How much does Scotland pay in tax and how much does it spend? - BBC "So, even by the most generous measure, Scotland raised £53.1bn in 2012/13 and spent £65.2bn, leaving the country £12.1bn short." It's the same argument as the £350m a day NHS one though isn't it? The figures are pink and fluffy and don't take in other overriding factors.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 15, 2017 10:32:49 GMT
"Anders Vistisen, a Danish MEP, estimated it would take an independent Scotland between four and six years to get EU membership but only if it committed to the euro and bringing down its huge deficit, which is higher even than Greece’s" Yep deficit is over 10% of GDP I think I read, talking about EFTA membership now.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 15, 2017 11:19:39 GMT
Mate you're wrong. The Scotland finances are always divisive because there are a number of ways that they can be calculated. Basically it's disputed oil ownership. Geographically Scotland 'owns' about 80% of the oil fields. By population it 'owns' about 8%. So a big difference in net worth. There's loads of data but within seconds here's one from the BBC. Albeit using figures from 2012/13...... How much does Scotland pay in tax and how much does it spend? - BBC "So, even by the most generous measure, Scotland raised £53.1bn in 2012/13 and spent £65.2bn, leaving the country £12.1bn short." It's the same argument as the £350m a day NHS one though isn't it? The figures are pink and fluffy and don't take in other overriding factors. Personally I don't think so. I think the truth or as close as matters to the truth, is there with a minimal amount of research. The figures are real. Government figures show our gross contribution. Link below. About 360 million was the gross amount we sent to the EU in 2014. Which would have been the latest full year figures available before the Leave campaign started. Depending on the rebate system that net figure came down to 188 million a week. In 2013 the gross amount was down to 347 million but the net amount was up to 200 million a week. It depends on what EU projects need funding each year which varies and the individual countries' annual GDP. What's clear is that UK contributions have risen and will continue to do so as the bloc expands with countries that are net takers. The rebate rises as well but these are variable figures. See page 13...... The UK’s net contribution - Gov.uk My point is that the net figure isn't 50 million a week or 350 million for that matter but a better estimate is not far away. Scotland might fluctuate between 12 billion and 20 billion but it's not 5 billion and it's definitely subsidised. Here are figures released under the Freedom of Information Act regarding block grants to Scotland...... Rising from 12 billion to 27 billion between 1999 to 2012
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 15, 2017 11:51:31 GMT
Professor John Curtice just interviewed on Daily Politics show saying his studies over 6 months show an average of 53% no to independence. Same as before the EU referendum.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 16, 2017 12:54:53 GMT
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Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on Mar 16, 2017 16:46:02 GMT
They won't have a sniff as the PM wants to concentrate on Brexit ..so may be in 2025.. Anyhow if they do and vote out of the UK who they actually get more from than the EU gives them and their biggest market and then apply to the EU..who then tell them to fuck off...what do they do then?
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Post by Northy on Mar 16, 2017 16:53:07 GMT
They won't have a sniff as the PM wants to concentrate on Brexit ..so may be in 2025.. Anyhow if they do and vote out of the UK who they actually get more from than the EU gives them and their biggest market and then apply to the EU..who then tell them to fuck off...what do they do then? A bit like last time when they were told they can't have the pound, Salmond - "no, we WILL keep the pound" Bank of England - "No you wont" Salmond "Ok, we'll take the Euro then" EU - "No you won't" Salmond - "anybody got a few groates lying around?"
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Post by lawrieleslie on Mar 16, 2017 18:30:34 GMT
I love Scotland and the Scots are good people. This egotistical maniac is hell bent on taking their country into oblivion on the back of her personal crusade. Maggie May is absolutely right to stand her ground, refuse an indyref2 and let krankie know who has the hierarchy of rule in the U.K.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Mar 16, 2017 18:39:23 GMT
It's the same argument as the £350m a day NHS one though isn't it? The figures are pink and fluffy and don't take in other overriding factors. Personally I don't think so. I think the truth or as close as matters to the truth, is there with a minimal amount of research. The figures are real. Government figures show our gross contribution. Link below. About 360 million was the gross amount we sent to the EU in 2014. Which would have been the latest full year figures available before the Leave campaign started. Depending on the rebate system that net figure came down to 188 million a week. In 2013 the gross amount was down to 347 million but the net amount was up to 200 million a week. It depends on what EU projects need funding each year which varies and the individual countries' annual GDP. What's clear is that UK contributions have risen and will continue to do so as the bloc expands with countries that are net takers. The rebate rises as well but these are variable figures. See page 13...... The UK’s net contribution - Gov.uk My point is that the net figure isn't 50 million a week or 350 million for that matter but a better estimate is not far away. Scotland might fluctuate between 12 billion and 20 billion but it's not 5 billion and it's definitely subsidised. Here are figures released under the Freedom of Information Act regarding block grants to Scotland...... Rising from 12 billion to 27 billion between 1999 to 2012Strange how Cameron said a Labour government in 2015 would be beholden to the S.N.P. and have to buy them off yet subsidies under Cameron's Tories have massively increased since Labour was at last in power! You might think Nicola would be grateful to Theresa for all the loot but there is no evidence of a love-in between the political sisterhood?
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 16, 2017 18:44:27 GMT
I love Scotland and the Scots are good people. This egotistical maniac is hell bent on taking their country into oblivion on the back of her personal crusade. Maggie May is absolutely right to stand her ground, refuse an indyref2 and let krankie know who has the hierarchy of rule in the U.K. I think Sturgeon will be delighted if Westminster blocks the referendum (although May hasn't specfically said that yet). I think she is counting on it. The SNP position on Europe (supposedly the reason for calling a second referendum) has become increasingly confused which doesn't bode well. And the economic case, which they lost last time on, is worse than ever. What they have is grievance and time. Blocking the referendum gives them time as well as the opportunity to ratchet up the grievance level - as we've seen today. BTW - if Sturgeon really believed she has the backing of the Scottish people she'd call a snap general election.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 16, 2017 18:59:42 GMT
Personally I don't think so. I think the truth or as close as matters to the truth, is there with a minimal amount of research. The figures are real. Government figures show our gross contribution. Link below. About 360 million was the gross amount we sent to the EU in 2014. Which would have been the latest full year figures available before the Leave campaign started. Depending on the rebate system that net figure came down to 188 million a week. In 2013 the gross amount was down to 347 million but the net amount was up to 200 million a week. It depends on what EU projects need funding each year which varies and the individual countries' annual GDP. What's clear is that UK contributions have risen and will continue to do so as the bloc expands with countries that are net takers. The rebate rises as well but these are variable figures. See page 13...... The UK’s net contribution - Gov.uk My point is that the net figure isn't 50 million a week or 350 million for that matter but a better estimate is not far away. Scotland might fluctuate between 12 billion and 20 billion but it's not 5 billion and it's definitely subsidised. Here are figures released under the Freedom of Information Act regarding block grants to Scotland...... Rising from 12 billion to 27 billion between 1999 to 2012Strange how Cameron said a Labour government in 2015 would be beholden to the S.N.P. and have to buy them off yet subsidies under Cameron's Tories have massively increased since Labour was at last in power! You might think Nicola would be grateful to Theresa for all the loot but there is no evidence of a love-in between the political sisterhood? Cameron was right! Imagine Red Ed and Sturgeon running the show I read that Scotland has the most amount of power of any devolved Parliament. Devo Max and billions of subsidies and the SNP are still not happy. It only proves they want to break from the UK at any cost. Anyway, Mrs May has put wee Jimmy in her place.
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 16, 2017 19:17:56 GMT
I love Scotland and the Scots are good people. This egotistical maniac is hell bent on taking their country into oblivion on the back of her personal crusade. Maggie May is absolutely right to stand her ground, refuse an indyref2 and let krankie know who has the hierarchy of rule in the U.K. They should be granted another referendum as long as they foot the bill, let's see if the Scottish people back Jimmy Krackpot if they vote for independence give it to them with immediate effect the day after the result, proper independence including financial independence
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Mar 16, 2017 19:26:38 GMT
Strange how Cameron said a Labour government in 2015 would be beholden to the S.N.P. and have to buy them off yet subsidies under Cameron's Tories have massively increased since Labour was at last in power! You might think Nicola would be grateful to Theresa for all the loot but there is no evidence of a love-in between the political sisterhood? Cameron was right! Imagine Red Ed and Sturgeon running the show I read that Scotland has the most amount of power of any devolved Parliament. Devo Max and billions of subsidies and the SNP are still not happy. It only proves they want to break from the UK at any cost. Anyway, Mrs May has put wee Jimmy in her place. How could be Cameron be right? It's the Tories who keep handing over the dosh!
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 16, 2017 19:27:34 GMT
Personally I don't think so. I think the truth or as close as matters to the truth, is there with a minimal amount of research. The figures are real. Government figures show our gross contribution. Link below. About 360 million was the gross amount we sent to the EU in 2014. Which would have been the latest full year figures available before the Leave campaign started. Depending on the rebate system that net figure came down to 188 million a week. In 2013 the gross amount was down to 347 million but the net amount was up to 200 million a week. It depends on what EU projects need funding each year which varies and the individual countries' annual GDP. What's clear is that UK contributions have risen and will continue to do so as the bloc expands with countries that are net takers. The rebate rises as well but these are variable figures. See page 13...... The UK’s net contribution - Gov.uk My point is that the net figure isn't 50 million a week or 350 million for that matter but a better estimate is not far away. Scotland might fluctuate between 12 billion and 20 billion but it's not 5 billion and it's definitely subsidised. Here are figures released under the Freedom of Information Act regarding block grants to Scotland...... Rising from 12 billion to 27 billion between 1999 to 2012Strange how Cameron said a Labour government in 2015 would be beholden to the S.N.P. and have to buy them off yet subsidies under Cameron's Tories have massively increased since Labour was at last in power! You might think Nicola would be grateful to Theresa for all the loot but there is no evidence of a love-in between the political sisterhood? Google the Barnett formula and you'll see funding to Scotland is decided it's loosely linked to spending in England and other factors no opportunity for sweeteners. And the point about Labour was the thought was they'd need the SNP to be to form a government and the buy off would be indyref2 which May has told them not now i'm busy. But apart from that bang on the money as usual
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Post by edaboagenawo on Mar 17, 2017 0:50:47 GMT
The real Scottish nationalists want a divorce from both the UK AND Brussels. Presumably also their own currency,which would have the same value as toilet paper.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 17, 2017 12:48:55 GMT
The real Scottish nationalists want a divorce from both the UK AND Brussels. Presumably also their own currency,which would have the same value as toilet paper. An SNP MP asked on Question Time about what currency they would use, the economy etc, etc. She refused to answer and said they would set out a detailed plan in nine months time. She also said they would still want free access to the UK market and free access to the EU market. It's cloud cuckoo land stuff.
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Post by thevoid on Mar 17, 2017 15:06:01 GMT
Strange how Cameron said a Labour government in 2015 would be beholden to the S.N.P. and have to buy them off yet subsidies under Cameron's Tories have massively increased since Labour was at last in power! You might think Nicola would be grateful to Theresa for all the loot but there is no evidence of a love-in between the political sisterhood? Google the Barnett formula and you'll see funding to Scotland is decided it's loosely linked to spending in England and other factors no opportunity for sweeteners. And the point about Labour was the thought was they'd need the SNP to be to form a government and the buy off would be indyref2 which May has told them not now i'm busy. But apart from that bang on the money as usual nicholasisacock spouting his usual bollocks I see.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 17, 2017 15:30:59 GMT
Google the Barnett formula and you'll see funding to Scotland is decided it's loosely linked to spending in England and other factors no opportunity for sweeteners. And the point about Labour was the thought was they'd need the SNP to be to form a government and the buy off would be indyref2 which May has told them not now i'm busy. But apart from that bang on the money as usual nicholasisacock spouting his usual bollocks I see. To be fair to Nicky he can spout bollocks on a varied range of subjects (which is in self a requirement for membership of the EE board), some of it is definitely very unusual though
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 17, 2017 21:47:39 GMT
Nicola is playing politics in that she is ensuring that Scottish independence is on the agenda. She feels that she is in a win-win situation in terms if agitating for the referendum. If May turns her down she can play the " The UK govt is ignoring the wishes of Scotland" card, the alternative is to be granted her wish , the referendum. To actual win the outcome of the referendum is another kettle of fish. The inconsistency of devolved governments needs addressing and in my opinion is probably unworkable in a United Kingdom. In fairness an English assembly should be set up.....but if it was I think that it would mark the end of the UK. If the English did have an assembly I think that there would be a fair chance that they would vote for independence from Scotland.
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Post by hammered on Mar 17, 2017 22:31:40 GMT
The poisonous krankie bird wants to do down in history as the person who delivered Scotland from the English. She doesn't care how she does it or the consequences - just that she gets it done!!
It's sad for me watching this divisive bint try and make an agenda fit circumstances and to a degree her opportunism is commendable as is her delusion.
May has every right IMO to squash the flee.
It would be ludicrous to suggest the Jocks don't have the right to determination etc..(even if a generation is 3 yrs) but ignoring the fiscals (without UK) won't add up and IN/OUT of EU is in balance - sense says wait till Brexit is known.
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Post by felonious on Mar 17, 2017 22:37:56 GMT
The poisonous krankie bird wants to do down in history as the person who delivered Scotland from the English. She doesn't care how she does it or the consequences - just that she gets it done!! It's sad for me watching this divisive bint try and make an agenda fit circumstances and to a degree her opportunism is commendable as is her delusion. May has every right IMO to squash the flee. It would be ludicrous to suggest the Jocks don't have the right to determination etc..(even if a generation is 3 yrs) but ignoring the fiscals (without UK) won't add up and IN/OUT of EU is in balance - sense says wait till Brexit is known. ...and in this particular set of circumstances you'd be right to sing "We pay your benefits"
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 18, 2017 10:31:05 GMT
Gordon Brown suggesting a third way more devolved power to Scotland sounds alright to me as long as it includes start paying for more of your own stuff.
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Post by partickpotter on Mar 18, 2017 12:02:20 GMT
Gordon Brown suggesting a third way more devolved power to Scotland sounds alright to me as long as it includes start paying for more of your own stuff. I was wondering when a Labour voice would be heard. At least to counter the SNP attempt to position this referendum as a battle between the virtuous Nationalists and the evil Tories under Thatcher Mark 2. No surprise Corbyn says nowt. Par for the course with that non entity. Instead Bungling Brown steps forward with more socialist utopia nonsense - meaning give us more money. It's a depressing state of affairs - we're trapped between the obsessive SNP, the vacuous Tories and the delusional Labour Party. By vacuous Tories I mean having a positive vision for the future. They have none.
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Post by ravey123 on Mar 18, 2017 20:18:12 GMT
Gordon Brown suggesting a third way more devolved power to Scotland sounds alright to me as long as it includes start paying for more of your own stuff. Just seen a summary of Gordon Brown's proposals. Basically power to set fishing rights, VAT, TAX and make their own trading agreements ot be devolved to Scotland, Wales and N Ireland. But England to guarantee ALL pensions and defence. WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP. Basically a way to get England to pay to support the other countres - WHY?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2017 20:29:55 GMT
Bringing in brown will just push more Scott's to want out
People like that cunt are the reason they're sick of the Westminster clique
May should have called sturgeons bluff and said ....yes, let's have it now.
I'm starting to think they're best fucking right off ....they're not British
They're more interested in continuing the hate the English war regardless of the harm it does to the whole uk
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Post by ravey123 on Mar 18, 2017 20:49:56 GMT
Bringing in brown will just push more Scott's to want out People like that cunt are the reason they're sick of the Westminster clique May should have called sturgeons bluff and said ....yes, let's have it now. I'm starting to think they're best fucking right off ....they're not British They're more interested in continuing the hate the English war regardless of the harm it does to the whole uk If its a referendum to break up the UK then the whole UK should vote - that way they will definately be out on their own for better or worse. What next, London voted to remain so. Referendum in London to break from the bone idle people outside London who actually make things (ie industry).
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 18, 2017 22:12:10 GMT
Gordon Brown suggesting a third way more devolved power to Scotland sounds alright to me as long as it includes start paying for more of your own stuff. I was wondering when a Labour voice would be heard. At least to counter the SNP attempt to position this referendum as a battle between the virtuous Nationalists and the evil Tories under Thatcher Mark 2. No surprise Corbyn says nowt. Par for the course with that non entity. Instead Bungling Brown steps forward with more socialist utopia nonsense - meaning give us more money. It's a depressing state of affairs - we're trapped between the obsessive SNP, the vacuous Tories and the delusional Labour Party. By vacuous Tories I mean having a positive vision for the future. They have none. Hard to know how accurate the papers are but most seem to indicate there is a referendum fatigue and another referendum is the last thing people want. There really doesn't seem any point trying to reason with the SNP, i'd be offering the maximum devolved power with the removal of central uk government funding over a number of years, after that if the choice of the scottish people is independence then so be it.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 21, 2017 8:52:44 GMT
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Post by thevoid on Mar 21, 2017 11:34:01 GMT
Jezza, the man who made the Scots prefer blue to red. Still, he's always got the Matrix drones of Stoke to fall back on
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