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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 13:51:32 GMT
If the English people were allowed a vote on weather I vote sunshine
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Post by capto on Mar 14, 2017 15:13:12 GMT
I would think that she would do better to use her position to push for electoral changes such as PR which would give the Scots a far better voice in the House of Commons. She may wish to read a few history books which would suggest that Britain only became Great after it was united in 1707 and that Scotland's role should be that of a partner in a cooperative rather than playing the role of enslaved servitude struggling to escape. The SNP have far too many seats if you go by the number of people they represent . I bet the population of Scotland is dwarfed by the population of London , who also voted to stay in Europe. What we have here is an attention seeking bint who hates the English . The sooner her and Salmond are put in their place and sent packing the better. Just BTW, how many countries can you name who love the English ? If Scotland does vote for independence, doesn't that mean they are sent packing? Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 14, 2017 15:30:27 GMT
No and EU confirmed it again within minutes of proposal for indyref2. The EU won't be keen to replace a cash cow with a cash drain. Strange isn't it how Scotland being out of the E.U. will be a disaster but the U.K. being out of the E.U. will be marvellous?! Are you really that silly? Scotland has a net deficit of something like £9 billion a year without money from England, if it votes for independence it loses that and has to fund that itself. To qualify for EU membership they would have to reduce the size of the deficit so vote SNP for turbo austerity. The funny thing is you keep banging on about the divorce bill saying we have to do as the EU says yet when we accept losing tariff free access to the single market as the EU has said on many occasions you then bang on about hard tory brexit. Can you at least be consistent in your cluelessness
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Mar 14, 2017 15:46:22 GMT
Strange isn't it how Scotland being out of the E.U. will be a disaster but the U.K. being out of the E.U. will be marvellous?! Are you really that silly? Scotland has a net deficit of something like £9 billion a year without money from England, if it votes for independence it loses that and has to fund that itself. To qualify for EU membership they would have to reduce the size of the deficit so vote SNP for turbo austerity. The funny thing is you keep banging on about the divorce bill saying we have to do as the EU says yet when we accept losing tariff free access to the single market as the EU has said on many occasions you then bang on about hard tory brexit. Can you at least be consistent in your cluelessness I'll try and be as consistently cluelessness as you are consistently crass? I was referring to Scotland's and the U.K.'s trading positions? It wasn't saying that Scotland is in a better position than the U.K. just that we would both be in the shit! Tories and ukippers want people to believe they haven't wrecked the Union because Scotland won't leave for economic reasons but we've just left the E.U. and most people expect to be slightly worse off. Economics isn't everything in referenda as Brexit demonstrated. Sturgeon calling for self-determination and waving the Saltire will count for an awful lot?!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 16:20:17 GMT
Are you really that silly? Scotland has a net deficit of something like £9 billion a year without money from England, if it votes for independence it loses that and has to fund that itself. To qualify for EU membership they would have to reduce the size of the deficit so vote SNP for turbo austerity. The funny thing is you keep banging on about the divorce bill saying we have to do as the EU says yet when we accept losing tariff free access to the single market as the EU has said on many occasions you then bang on about hard tory brexit. Can you at least be consistent in your cluelessness I'll try and be as consistently cluelessness as you are consistently crass? I was referring to Scotland's and the U.K.'s trading positions? It wasn't saying that Scotland is in a better position than the U.K. just that we would both be in the shit! Tories and ukippers want people to believe they haven't wrecked the Union because Scotland won't leave for economic reasons but we've just left the E.U. and most people expect to be slightly worse off. Economics isn't everything in referenda as Brexit demonstrated. Sturgeon calling for self-determination and waving the Saltire will count for an awful lot?! "Most people expect to be worst off" ...where have you got that from? In my opinion most of the United Kingdom who want us to leave the eu eventually expect us to be far better off. I do agree that waving the satire will draw a lot of votes
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 14, 2017 16:37:09 GMT
Are you really that silly? Scotland has a net deficit of something like £9 billion a year without money from England, if it votes for independence it loses that and has to fund that itself. To qualify for EU membership they would have to reduce the size of the deficit so vote SNP for turbo austerity. The funny thing is you keep banging on about the divorce bill saying we have to do as the EU says yet when we accept losing tariff free access to the single market as the EU has said on many occasions you then bang on about hard tory brexit. Can you at least be consistent in your cluelessness I'll try and be as consistently cluelessness as you are consistently crass? I was referring to Scotland's and the U.K.'s trading positions? It wasn't saying that Scotland is in a better position than the U.K. just that we would both be in the shit! Tories and ukippers want people to believe they haven't wrecked the Union because Scotland won't leave for economic reasons but we've just left the E.U. and most people expect to be slightly worse off. Economics isn't everything in referenda as Brexit demonstrated. Sturgeon calling for self-determination and waving the Saltire will count for an awful lot?! The SNP want to leave the Union it's the whole reason for being, brexit is just the excuse as i've said before renewal of trident and Boris becoming PM were both threatened as potential reasons for calling another referendum. Economics isn't everything when you can put doubt as to it happening, the Barnet formula funding, shipbuilding on the Clyde, losing the pound are not maybes they are definites.
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Post by eddyclamp on Mar 14, 2017 17:39:38 GMT
The SNP have far too many seats if you go by the number of people they represent . I bet the population of Scotland is dwarfed by the population of London , who also voted to stay in Europe. What we have here is an attention seeking bint who hates the English . The sooner her and Salmond are put in their place and sent packing the better. Just BTW, how many countries can you name who love the English ? If Scotland does vote for independence, doesn't that mean they are sent packing? Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964 Not interested who likes or dislikes us.And yes if the jocks voted for independence (which I don't think they will) then yes they can all fuck off and they will never see me in Scotland again.
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Post by Parkhall Wanderer on Mar 14, 2017 22:10:31 GMT
Just BTW, how many countries can you name who love the English ? If Scotland does vote for independence, doesn't that mean they are sent packing? Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964 Not interested who likes or dislikes us.And yes if the jocks voted for independence (which I don't think they will) then yes they can all fuck off and they will never see me in Scotland again. Don't think you will be missed
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Post by Parkhall Wanderer on Mar 14, 2017 22:13:57 GMT
Braveheart2 - coming to a big screen near you soon.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 14, 2017 22:31:44 GMT
Just BTW, how many countries can you name who love the English ? If Scotland does vote for independence, doesn't that mean they are sent packing? Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964 Not interested who likes or dislikes us.And yes if the jocks voted for independence (which I don't think they will) then yes they can all fuck off and they will never see me in Scotland again. Opinion polls are showing a massive surge in support for independence in the last four hours.
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Post by capto on Mar 14, 2017 22:37:42 GMT
Not interested who likes or dislikes us.And yes if the jocks voted for independence (which I don't think they will) then yes they can all fuck off and they will never see me in Scotland again. Opinion polls are showing a massive surge in support for independence in the last four hours. Scots have probably been shown eddyclamp's remark? Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 14, 2017 23:13:35 GMT
YouGov poll from today has remain at 57%, generally support for a second indyref being held at all is between 30-39%.
Tomorrow it is rumoured Sturgeon will announce they're giving up on EU membership, has Nicola blundered and shot her bolt too soon?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 15, 2017 0:01:10 GMT
YouGov poll from today has remain at 57%, generally support for a second indyref being held at all is between 30-39%. Tomorrow it is rumoured Sturgeon will announce they're giving up on EU membership, has Nicola blundered and shot her bolt too soon? I think, she thinks it's her only chance. Without spelling out how an economy that needs bankrolling from Westminster would survive on it's own and what currency they could use, entry back into the EU taking a decade at least and why the EU would be interested in taking in a lifelong net taker, she's started the debate. Piggy backing on the grown up politics of the Brexit negotiations she pretends to be a global player. She isn't. If the Brexit deal comes across as 'not bad' for the Scots then they'll be happy to leave along with the rest of the UK so after Brexit the SNP would be left convincing the population to leave their biggest and only(?) single market ie the UK. Not easy. By throwing out a late 2018 early 2019 date she's trying to really fuck up the Brexit negotiations. Does David Davis negotiate with the EU including Scottish fisheries needs, the whiskey trade and the declining oil production or not bother negotiating on behalf of anything North of the border?? The thing is that I don't think there's much more to give the Scots. They have devo max, billions of funding that allows the highest spend per head in the UK even though they have run up a 15 billion deficit. Bearing in mind they were skint when they joined the Union 300 years ago and have been subsidised ever since. Her gamble is all or nothing. If they vote to remain the idea of independence is gone for at least a real generation or two if not forever. If they vote to leave then she writes her footnote in history and in 10-15 years they'll be one of the smallest, skint-est nations in the EU.
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Post by Mendicant on Mar 15, 2017 7:48:21 GMT
YouGov poll from today has remain at 57%, generally support for a second indyref being held at all is between 30-39%. Tomorrow it is rumoured Sturgeon will announce they're giving up on EU membership, has Nicola blundered and shot her bolt too soon? It depends on what she believes is happening to the EU, especially behind the scenes. If politicians and civil servants have been negotiating privately since the Brexit vote, it could be that a redefined Europe will be proposed as an alternative to the current set up. Therefore if wee Nicola thinks the EU is "deed", she might hold her Shetland ponies for a bit until the bigger EU member states come up with a new plan for trade and integration. The man is an utter plonker comes with more baggage than a 747 but I think Tony Blair is one of the few with the cojones to lead Europe now, along with some other big hitters like Sarkozy, Berlusconi and Merkel.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 8:04:45 GMT
No and EU confirmed it again within minutes of proposal for indyref2. The EU won't be keen to replace a cash cow with a cash drain. Strange isn't it how Scotland being out of the E.U. will be a disaster but the U.K. being out of the E.U. will be marvellous?! Yes a load of debt, oil prices extremely low compared to predictions in the 1st referendum. Then they will need defence, a new currency. Even joining the EU will be a challenge because spain are likely to veto it. They do most of their trade with us, many people will turn their backs on scotland if they leave and trade will most definately reduce. We already did more trade countries outside the EU, so were not reliant on them and more than capable of going alone.
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Post by felonious on Mar 15, 2017 8:12:12 GMT
I'll try and be as consistently cluelessness as you are consistently crass? I was referring to Scotland's and the U.K.'s trading positions? It wasn't saying that Scotland is in a better position than the U.K. just that we would both be in the shit! Tories and ukippers want people to believe they haven't wrecked the Union because Scotland won't leave for economic reasons but we've just left the E.U. and most people expect to be slightly worse off. Economics isn't everything in referenda as Brexit demonstrated. Sturgeon calling for self-determination and waving the Saltire will count for an awful lot?! "Most people expect to be worst off" ...where have you got that from? In my opinion most of the United Kingdom who want us to leave the eu eventually expect us to be far better off. I do agree that waving the satire will draw a lot of votes
Who do you think should do it?
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Post by Northy on Mar 15, 2017 8:31:33 GMT
About time we had a vote to get rid of them from the union, and save us all a bit of money. As the saying goes, don't bite the hand that feeds you.
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Post by Dutchpeter on Mar 15, 2017 8:32:45 GMT
Strange isn't it how Scotland being out of the E.U. will be a disaster but the U.K. being out of the E.U. will be marvellous?! Yes a load of debt, oil prices extremely low compared to predictions in the 1st referendum. Then they will need defence, a new currency. Even joining the EU will be a challenge because spain are likely to veto it. They do most of their trade with us, many people will turn their backs on scotland if they leave and trade will most definately reduce. We already did more trade countries outside the EU, so were not reliant on them and more than capable of going alone. Not only Spain may object. Most Western European nations have separatist movements of varying strength/influence. Accepting an independent Scotland into the EU could well set an unwelcome precedent, especially after Brexit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 8:39:37 GMT
Firstly I don't want the Scots to leave. However I would grant them a referendum if that's what they want. But not until 2020 when Brexit has been concluded and the dust settled. It's a reasonable position and hopefully will satisfy all parties.
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Post by raythesailor on Mar 15, 2017 8:43:50 GMT
Driving N or S on the M6, it is chocker block with foreign lorries. These vehicles pay no road tax and buy the bulk if not all there fuel on the continent and so pay little tax whilst damaging our road surfaces which require constant maintenance and repair.
Should Scotland leave the union and hope to trade with Europe are they expecting to transport all there exports and imports via our major sea ports and railways free of charge ? I don't think so.
This is only one of many practical problems that I feel that a split is most unlikely. She can talk the talk but the practical details will make it impossible to achieve.
In my opinion I think she is just trying to make the Brexit negotiations more complex and difficult.
I hope she has shot herself in the foot and becomes a spent force.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 8:58:56 GMT
Hopefully she'll lose the referendum and disappear politically and take Salmond with her !
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Post by capto on Mar 15, 2017 9:02:51 GMT
If the EU wants to give the UK a hard time for Brexit why not allow the Scots into the EU - divide and conquer? If there is tariffs between UK and EU and firms begin to suffer - why not relocate to Scotland, now in the EU, especially the financial services, who would then have the passporting rights within the EU? If oil is at £x a barrel now - does that mean it will never rise? Are you saying that England will agree to downsize its cars and cut back on its electricity and power output?
Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 15, 2017 9:31:10 GMT
If the EU wants to give the UK a hard time for Brexit why not allow the Scots into the EU - divide and conquer? If there is tariffs between UK and EU and firms begin to suffer - why not relocate to Scotland, now in the EU, especially the financial services, who would then have the passporting rights within the EU? If oil is at £x a barrel now - does that mean it will never rise? Are you saying that England will agree to downsize its cars and cut back on its electricity and power output? Match of the Day: fighting the corner of the under dog and the small clubs since 1964 Scotland isn't an attractive option for the EU. Geographically remote, financially needy with declining oil reserves and a monster (circa £25 billion) bill for decommissioning outdated oil rigs. Oil prices might rise but the reserves won't. In fact oil prices might tumble again....... England and many other countries are trying to downsize cars and diesels will be taxed off the roads if the latest pollution stats are right.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 15, 2017 9:38:31 GMT
Driving N or S on the M6, it is chocker block with foreign lorries. These vehicles pay no road tax and buy the bulk if not all there fuel on the continent and so pay little tax whilst damaging our road surfaces which require constant maintenance and repair. Should Scotland leave the union and hope to trade with Europe are they expecting to transport all there exports and imports via our major sea ports and railways free of charge ? I don't think so. This is only one of many practical problems that I feel that a split is most unlikely. She can talk the talk but the practical details will make it impossible to achieve. In my opinion I think she is just trying to make the Brexit negotiations more complex and difficult. I hope she has shot herself in the foot and becomes a spent force. Just been reading about this Ray. Eastern European (Moldova) haulage companies paying as little as 150 EURO's a month, drivers sleeping in the truck and all operating/undercutting UK firms. Ikea drivers living in trucks for months - BBC Jack Semple, from the Road Haulage Association, says: "We are seeing far more foreign lorries that are frankly less compliant with drivers' hours and road-worthiness regulations. There is a road safety risk, and the Treasury is losing a fortune in tax revenue."
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 9:49:07 GMT
You just have in your previous two sentences..... Really? Which bit? Scotland won't have to adopt the EURO? Westminster doesn't subsidise Holyrood? Scotland's highest court with be in Europe? I was questioning the amount we would save (wrong) and the fact that we're controlled by Brussels (also wrong)
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 15, 2017 9:54:10 GMT
About time we had a vote to get rid of them from the union, and save us all a bit of money. As the saying goes, don't bite the hand that feeds you. Officials in Madrid have raised this idea re: Catalonia. If a referendum costs all taxpayers and separation would effect the whole country then why shouldn't every taxpayer have a vote. It does have a a certain logic to it. Devolved powers for internal administration is one thing but regional Parliaments making unilateral decisions that effect the whole of the United Kingdom is another. I'd vote for them to stay. I don't want Scotland to leave just the SNP.
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Post by followyoudown on Mar 15, 2017 9:54:17 GMT
YouGov poll from today has remain at 57%, generally support for a second indyref being held at all is between 30-39%. Tomorrow it is rumoured Sturgeon will announce they're giving up on EU membership, has Nicola blundered and shot her bolt too soon? It depends on what she believes is happening to the EU, especially behind the scenes. If politicians and civil servants have been negotiating privately since the Brexit vote, it could be that a redefined Europe will be proposed as an alternative to the current set up. Therefore if wee Nicola thinks the EU is "deed", she might hold her Shetland ponies for a bit until the bigger EU member states come up with a new plan for trade and integration. The man is an utter plonker comes with more baggage than a 747 but I think Tony Blair is one of the few with the cojones to lead Europe now, along with some other big hitters like Sarkozy, Berlusconi and Merkel. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/14/nicola-sturgeon-will-not-get-much-help-europe-despite-charm/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_twSeems the EU don't want a bar of Scotland despite all the grandstanding she has been blanked or palmed off with junior ministers in restaurants and my only personal favourite the reception for EU ambassador types included Estonia's representative a pest controller from Paisley whose links date back to visiting Talinn with the Tartan army
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 15, 2017 10:02:36 GMT
Really? Which bit? Scotland won't have to adopt the EURO? Westminster doesn't subsidise Holyrood? Scotland's highest court with be in Europe? I was questioning the amount we would save (wrong) and the fact that we're controlled by Brussels (also wrong) Mate you're wrong. The Scotland finances are always divisive because there are a number of ways that they can be calculated. Basically it's disputed oil ownership. Geographically Scotland 'owns' about 80% of the oil fields. By population it 'owns' about 8%. So a big difference in net worth. There's loads of data but within seconds here's one from the BBC. Albeit using figures from 2012/13...... How much does Scotland pay in tax and how much does it spend? - BBC "So, even by the most generous measure, Scotland raised £53.1bn in 2012/13 and spent £65.2bn, leaving the country £12.1bn short."
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 15, 2017 10:03:41 GMT
Really? Which bit? Scotland won't have to adopt the EURO? Westminster doesn't subsidise Holyrood? Scotland's highest court with be in Europe? I was questioning the amount we would save (wrong) and the fact that we're controlled by Brussels (also wrong) If we're independent from Brussels what was the referendum about?
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Mar 15, 2017 10:07:59 GMT
It depends on what she believes is happening to the EU, especially behind the scenes. If politicians and civil servants have been negotiating privately since the Brexit vote, it could be that a redefined Europe will be proposed as an alternative to the current set up. Therefore if wee Nicola thinks the EU is "deed", she might hold her Shetland ponies for a bit until the bigger EU member states come up with a new plan for trade and integration. The man is an utter plonker comes with more baggage than a 747 but I think Tony Blair is one of the few with the cojones to lead Europe now, along with some other big hitters like Sarkozy, Berlusconi and Merkel. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/14/nicola-sturgeon-will-not-get-much-help-europe-despite-charm/?WT.mc_id=tmg_share_twSeems the EU don't want a bar of Scotland despite all the grandstanding she has been blanked or palmed off with junior ministers in restaurants and my only personal favourite the reception for EU ambassador types included Estonia's representative a pest controller from Paisley whose links date back to visiting Talinn with the Tartan army "Anders Vistisen, a Danish MEP, estimated it would take an independent Scotland between four and six years to get EU membership but only if it committed to the euro and bringing down its huge deficit, which is higher even than Greece’s"
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