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Post by mickmillslovechild on Feb 5, 2017 10:35:16 GMT
Before he came on, all our senior players were doing a brilliant job... No absolutely they were pathetic. But he was even more pathetic. running at someone untill you lose the ball is not the answer. At least Affelay got a few crosses in. How many did N'goy get in? Just because our senior players played pathetic, does not mean N'goy is good enough for the PRem. Send him out for a season to a midtable Championship side. If he's good enough, he will excel and be in a good place, if not, nothing to see here, move on. Chelsea sent Moses out on loan, and now he's doing a job for them. Why not do the same with N'goy? Is that the Victor Moses who'd already made over 160 first team appearances with nearly 100 of them in the Prem before his loan spells with Liverpool and us? Yeah, exactly same situation isn't it? Good comparison!
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 5, 2017 10:38:29 GMT
From what I saw today for a young lad who's had less than 90 minutes cumulative premier league time he did fine. He looked a bit nervous and unsure but a few things to remember: He's not a winger, affellay looked out of position plenty of times today and for the same reason He's still a very young player with raw talent Made some good dribbles into the box and looked threatening with his pace If its true and Whelan did call him 'fucking crap' on the pitch then he needs to take a long hard look at himself, he didn't cover himself in glory today. Far from it, but then its ok for him because it takes him at least 5 minutes to decide who he's going to pass it too (normally whoever in front of him), he was the human personification of a 'ditherer' on the ball today and failed to make any effort to challenge for the ball when the opposition were through on goal but id expect no less as he rarely tackles in the middle of the pitch. The lad didn't do much wrong today and coming out with something like that isn't going to help us win the game. Tell him to do things like track players, change position, mark players etc but he did nothing to warrant a response like that. Perhaps why some youth players haven't done well if this is the response they get off senior players? If he did say it he needs a rocket. If he was told he was crap everytime he messed up he'd have earache and a complex. Let's not forget who was to blame for the goal yesterday it certainly wasnt NGoy.
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Ngoy
Feb 5, 2017 10:40:30 GMT
Post by stokeoptimist on Feb 5, 2017 10:40:30 GMT
Looked out of his depth and unwilling or unable to do anything. Love him to prove all us doubters wrong but no evidence so far of that. See post above, he is a 19 year old lad being flogged out of position to cover our managers neglegence in the transfer markets. Which is pretty much how every youngster gets his chance, we had enough chances to get a result yesterday but didn't take them that's all that matters
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Post by flea79 on Feb 5, 2017 10:41:39 GMT
the lad has bags of potential just not quite premier league ready yet, i would hate to see him become the next Ryan Shotton, rushed in to soon and loses his way
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 5, 2017 10:57:25 GMT
I wouldn't drop any of our senior players for him. If he is a striker, he has to displace Crouch, Berahino Diouff, Walters. On the evidence I've seen, he needs a lot of improving. How on earth does your logic arrive at the conclusion he is "being hung out to dry as a winger (when used) to cover up for 3 windows of negligence"???? Surely if a manager takes an inexperienced striker and puts him on the wing, it would draw attention to the fact that we are light in that area rather than covering it up??? Also how many people do you think we need that can cover at right wing? How has Hughes been negligent on the right wing? The fact that we have had to put a CM (affelay) there and a CF (NGoy) because we have zero winger cover, shows neglegence! His persistence in signing too many midfielders (central) and not getting backup / strengthening areas that we can all see that we need is neglegence. Now a young talent is being ripped to shreds because he is playing out of position trying to create something out of nothing when it should be him finishing the chances off! Oh nonsense. How many players that can cover on the right do you need in a team? Also you left out. "Now a young UNFINISHED talent ......." I get that you like him and want to see our own young talent coming through, but the guy didn't control the ball, didn't pass, and didn't tackle. All he did was run with the ball till he lost it. Do you think he's good enough for prem today, or would a year at a slightly lower standard help him develop?
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Ngoy
Feb 5, 2017 11:00:58 GMT
Post by GoBoks on Feb 5, 2017 11:00:58 GMT
No absolutely they were pathetic. But he was even more pathetic. running at someone untill you lose the ball is not the answer. At least Affelay got a few crosses in. How many did N'goy get in? Just because our senior players played pathetic, does not mean N'goy is good enough for the PRem. Send him out for a season to a midtable Championship side. If he's good enough, he will excel and be in a good place, if not, nothing to see here, move on. Chelsea sent Moses out on loan, and now he's doing a job for them. Why not do the same with N'goy? Is that the Victor Moses who'd already made over 160 first team appearances with nearly 100 of them in the Prem before his loan spells with Liverpool and us? Yeah, exactly same situation isn't it? Good comparison! You're right! That's why I think N'goy is not ready for the prem. He should spend a bit of time playing at a reasonable competitive level like the championship. I want him to be successful, and I don't see evidence he is capable of making the switch from youth team to prem without an intermediate step to hone his skills.
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Post by wearestoke80 on Feb 5, 2017 11:05:14 GMT
He tried to take everyone on yesterday,not gonna work.
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 5, 2017 11:06:46 GMT
From what I saw today for a young lad who's had less than 90 minutes cumulative premier league time he did fine. He looked a bit nervous and unsure but a few things to remember: He's not a winger, affellay looked out of position plenty of times today and for the same reason He's still a very young player with raw talent Made some good dribbles into the box and looked threatening with his pace If its true and Whelan did call him 'fucking crap' on the pitch then he needs to take a long hard look at himself, he didn't cover himself in glory today. Far from it, but then its ok for him because it takes him at least 5 minutes to decide who he's going to pass it too (normally whoever in front of him), he was the human personification of a 'ditherer' on the ball today and failed to make any effort to challenge for the ball when the opposition were through on goal but id expect no less as he rarely tackles in the middle of the pitch. The lad didn't do much wrong today and coming out with something like that isn't going to help us win the game. Tell him to do things like track players, change position, mark players etc but he did nothing to warrant a response like that. Perhaps why some youth players haven't done well if this is the response they get off senior players? If he did say it he needs a rocket. If he was told he was crap everytime he messed up he'd have earache and a complex. Let's not forget who was to blame for the goal yesterday it certainly wasnt NGoy. Oh for heaven's sake! Some fan 40 or 50 yards away says he thinks he lip read Whelan saying "he's crap" and some are immediately castigating Whelan. Even if he was complaining about N'goy, If someone can't control a simple pass, they deserve a bollocking. Or do you think Whelan should have clapped for a good effort?
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 5, 2017 11:09:27 GMT
the lad has bags of potential just not quite premier league ready yet, i would hate to see him become the next Ryan Shotton, rushed in to soon and loses his way 100% spot on! Let's be thoughtful about how we develop him. In my opinion a spell at a mid table Championship team might be just what he needs to hone his skills.
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Ngoy
Feb 5, 2017 11:23:39 GMT
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Post by scfcwebby on Feb 5, 2017 11:23:39 GMT
The fact that we have had to put a CM (affelay) there and a CF (NGoy) because we have zero winger cover, shows neglegence! His persistence in signing too many midfielders (central) and not getting backup / strengthening areas that we can all see that we need is neglegence. Now a young talent is being ripped to shreds because he is playing out of position trying to create something out of nothing when it should be him finishing the chances off! Oh nonsense. How many players that can cover on the right do you need in a team? Also you left out. "Now a young UNFINISHED talent ......." I get that you like him and want to see our own young talent coming through, but the guy didn't control the ball, didn't pass, and didn't tackle. All he did was run with the ball till he lost it. Do you think he's good enough for prem today, or would a year at a slightly lower standard help him develop? At least 2 would be nice in the premier league it is criminal not to have 2 natrual players for each position. Being played in his correct position will help him develop. He doesnt need to be rushed in to the big time, but when he does get his chance he needs to be played correctly not covering other gaps in the team.
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Post by scfcwebby on Feb 5, 2017 11:25:04 GMT
If he did say it he needs a rocket. If he was told he was crap everytime he messed up he'd have earache and a complex. Let's not forget who was to blame for the goal yesterday it certainly wasnt NGoy. Oh for heaven's sake! Some fan 40 or 50 yards away says he thinks he lip read Whelan saying "he's crap" and some are immediately castigating Whelan. Even if he was complaining about N'goy, If someone can't control a simple pass, they deserve a bollocking. Or do you think Whelan should have clapped for a good effort? It wasnt a fan 40 or 50 yards away, it was caught on the cameras close up!
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Ngoy
Feb 5, 2017 11:28:50 GMT
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Post by nutterpotter on Feb 5, 2017 11:28:50 GMT
If he did say it he needs a rocket. If he was told he was crap everytime he messed up he'd have earache and a complex. Let's not forget who was to blame for the goal yesterday it certainly wasnt NGoy. Oh for heaven's sake! Some fan 40 or 50 yards away says he thinks he lip read Whelan saying "he's crap" and some are immediately castigating Whelan. Even if he was complaining about N'goy, If someone can't control a simple pass, they deserve a bollocking. Or do you think Whelan should have clapped for a good effort? You could see it very clearly on the stream when the camera was on his face.
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Post by imho on Feb 5, 2017 11:48:23 GMT
Ngoy is crap....at the moment. He needs games at the top level to see how he can adapt and improve or if he needs time in the lower divisions.
We've has players fighting on the pitch before so one name calling is no big deal.
What is a big deal is the manager thinking this and any game you are behind in is good idea to bring a young lad on who is no where near ready.
The issue is with him being on the pitch in the first place not what whelan said.
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Post by stokiejoeofalsager on Feb 5, 2017 12:11:48 GMT
I really don't get the stick he's getting. I see the fact that he wasn't too effective yesterday in the half an hour he was on, but the guy has only just turned 19! He's clearly a good player and sold their full back for good several times. His end product wasn't brilliant but at least he was willing to run at them and take us up the pitch. The end product will come. You can't demand for youth and then when they do play, complain they aren't as good as senior players. Of course they aren't! That comes with the experience they'all only get playing in the premier league. We aren't going to win a trophy this season, and we can only realistically hope for 8th as Everton having a player like Lukaku takes them a level ahead of us. Hopefully berahino will become that man. Is it worth the short term loss of playing ngoy, Edwards, Ramadan, verlinden and co. to give them experience to and to give the club the long term gain of having several fantastic youth products, several of which we stole from under the nose of Madrid, Barca, Bayern etc? In my opinion it is. This nonsensical bashing of teenagers isn't going to do any good for them. If you really want to point a finger, point it at Hughes if you feel it wasn't the right time to play ngoy. We should just be a bit more patient with these players in my opinion because let's face it, I don't think anybody was going to break down that defence yesterday. Allen should have scored our big chance.
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Ngoy
Feb 5, 2017 12:13:31 GMT
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Stoke711 likes this
Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 5, 2017 12:13:31 GMT
If he did say it he needs a rocket. If he was told he was crap everytime he messed up he'd have earache and a complex. Let's not forget who was to blame for the goal yesterday it certainly wasnt NGoy. Oh for heaven's sake! Some fan 40 or 50 yards away says he thinks he lip read Whelan saying "he's crap" and some are immediately castigating Whelan. Even if he was complaining about N'goy, If someone can't control a simple pass, they deserve a bollocking. Or do you think Whelan should have clapped for a good effort? Certainly calling him crap bearing in mind he's a young lad certainly wasn't the right thing to do IMO but clearly that's wrong. If Whelan had a blinder I could understand it a bit more. Maybe if Arni had called Whelan shit when he lost Morrison for there goal let's see how he would have taken that. The lad needs encouragement.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Feb 5, 2017 12:17:17 GMT
He tried to take everyone on yesterday,not gonna work. It may have helped if some bugga moved for him to pass to mind
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Ngoy
Feb 5, 2017 12:19:33 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 5, 2017 12:19:33 GMT
I realise what i'm about to type is just a variation of what we already know but here goes anyway... Ngoy is only in the matchday squad because our first team squad is so unbalanced it's scary. I wouldn't say it's based on Ngoy being so very impressive for the U23's that Hughes has thought "This lad, i want him in the first team now, drop some first team players and get the lad in!" Our squad houses 3 wide players: Shaqiri, Arnautovic and Ramadan. That's all and it's down to managerial negligence i'm afraid, there's no other conclusion. Even a 7 year old on a football video game would realise they needed work doing to get their squad strengthened in those areas. So Hughes has (in my opinion) under-used Ramadan so far and he's currently unavailable, Shaqiri get's injured very easily which leads us to currently and often having only 1 recognised wide player available in Arnautovic. Afellay was stuck out on the right on Wednesday and also today which is ludicrous because here's a player who started his career at this club played out wide and everyone could see he was no longer a wide player, a very talented player no doubt, but stuck out there the game passed him by and we looked unbalanced. He then started playing his best football for us from a central midfield position and he was brilliant right up until his injury. On Wednesday he played like a player who just did not want to be in that wide position, he was tidy enough with the ball but totally unthreatening and he drifted inside and stayed there as if to say "I'm staying here because i hate playing out wide, no, no, no, no, i'm staying here for the duration, you'll not find me getting white on me boots" Whelan ended up on the right on Wednesday, bloody Nora! So don't play him there Mark!! BUT.. he sort of has to because we have no other wide player on the books because of our terrible recruitment. Hoisted by your own....hoist here Hughesy! So today we have Ngoy (who is a central striker) as the only wide option from the bench. Unless of course he plays Diouf out there who as we all know is a specialist wing back now. Round pegs in square holes was something that irked the fudge out of me under the previous manager and Hughes just about takes the cake with it too i'm afraid. Buy the players who'll fit your system and play them where they should be played else you're left trying to make a dressing table from a broken action man and a few bits of fuse wire. I didn't get where I am today without realising you can't put woody where woody won't go! Brilliant post bang on the money
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 12:21:18 GMT
Ngoy actually looked the most threatening down the right than any other player who played there yesterday. His problem was not releasing the ball into the danger zone quickly enough before he got swamped out. I'm sure that will come, he just needs time to adapt to the pace of Prem football.
You could see the confidence draining from him each time he failed. I don't know the lads character but he seemed the sort who needs an arm around him rather than a bollocking. Wheelans outburst wasn't aimed directly at Ngoys face, he probably never even saw it anyway as Wheelan was running towards his own half as the move broke down and it was either said to another Stoke player or the manager. The cameras showed a close up of Wheelan as he said it. There was no mistaking it in my eyes. It's really no big deal but I would of expected more from a fellow teammate.
Anyway, give the lad time, he's young, raw and needs to adapt quickly but hopefully that will come. WBA away probably wasn't a good place to build his confidence, Palace at home could allow him to flourish a little more and grow into an exciting prospect. Let's give him a chance...
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2017 12:33:49 GMT
Should he have scored when he scuffed his shot? Hard to tell from our position.
If so, he fluffed his big moment. When he's plying his trade at Newcastle town in a few years, he'll look back on that moment and think "if only".
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Ngoy
Feb 5, 2017 12:36:39 GMT
Post by biglad180 on Feb 5, 2017 12:36:39 GMT
we if whelen did say that he is a disgrace he is not actually the best of players
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Ngoy
Feb 5, 2017 12:47:30 GMT
Post by pottersrule on Feb 5, 2017 12:47:30 GMT
Some might do well to remember the lad is 19 and being played out of position. Really can't see how this will help his progress.
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Ngoy
Feb 5, 2017 13:24:21 GMT
Post by Clem Fandango on Feb 5, 2017 13:24:21 GMT
Theres some drivel being spouted on this thread. The team as a whole was garbage yesterday so what the 19 year old with probably only around 90 mins of first team football under his belt did is the least of my worries.
It would be nice though to see him bought on when the team as a whole isnt under performing (WBA or Wolves) or defending for their lives (Man Utd, Arsenal). I think Sunderland is probably the only game where we were performing really well and he came on for the last 5 mins. Its hardly the best introduction.
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Ngoy
Feb 5, 2017 13:40:11 GMT
Post by stayingupforbigbazza on Feb 5, 2017 13:40:11 GMT
difficult time to blood Ngoy at the moment
out of position etc
but we need points on the board asap before experimenting
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 14:22:35 GMT
I thought he did really well, looked to drive at them which is more than can be said of Af.
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Ngoy
Feb 5, 2017 14:53:51 GMT
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Post by colinroberts1 on Feb 5, 2017 14:53:51 GMT
They'd all be in for fcukin training today learning how to beat the 1st yes 1st man.no matter who it is they hardly ever beat the 1st man. Head in hands yesterday time and time again.
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Ngoy
Feb 5, 2017 21:00:19 GMT
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Post by fraybentos on Feb 5, 2017 21:00:19 GMT
difficult time to blood Ngoy at the moment out of position etc but we need points on the board asap before experimenting That's the problem with giving Ngoy a shot, we need points on the board and people get straight on his back, I would be happy see him play last 20mins in every game and be inconsistent with our results. He's one of our brightest talents
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 21:01:57 GMT
Not ready yet a bit out of his depth but I'm sure Glenn calling him fucking shit wont help.
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Ngoy
Feb 5, 2017 21:02:44 GMT
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Feb 5, 2017 21:02:44 GMT
Ripping apart a 19 year olds performance? So much for getting behind him! You moan when he doesn't play then moan when he makes mistakes!
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Ngoy
Feb 5, 2017 21:09:58 GMT
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Post by fraybentos on Feb 5, 2017 21:09:58 GMT
Not ready yet a bit out of his depth but I'm sure Glenn calling him fucking shit wont help. He's a young Lukaka
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2017 21:11:59 GMT
Not ready yet a bit out of his depth but I'm sure Glenn calling him fucking shit wont help. He's a young Lukaka Nowhere near I'm afraid.
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