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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 2, 2017 9:47:41 GMT
If we applied the Bojan rule of judging players he'd be on loan to a minor German club based on recent efforts.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 2, 2017 9:55:32 GMT
Some players are allowed to be poor for large chunks of a season and escape The Oatcake Wrath, and some are not. Allen seems to be in the latter group(and I accept he has been off form, lately). Our midfield was getting overrun years before he arrived.
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 2, 2017 9:55:51 GMT
Allen was poor last night, as he has been for a number of games recently, a lot of running to little effect with poor ball control and so many misplaced passes. If Bojan had misplaced so may passes, given the ball away so much and had such poor control he would have been slated by this board and hooked much earlier I imagine. It seems Bojan is judged by different criteria. It's not Allen's fault though, he doesn't choose his position.
When we signed Allen I hoped to see the Allen we'd seen playing for Wales where he was rightly lauded for his performances, but suddenly he metamorphosed into a "number 10", he had a purple patch there but has tailed off as I expected him to do. We were crying out for guile rather than what Allen provided last night and if we are to get the most out of Berahino I believe we need more than what Allen can provide in the number 10 role. I'd like to see him playing the role he played for Wales, where he had the energy, composure, skill and above all the discipline to excel in that position. Last night he reminded me of Dean Whitehead with upgraded batteries, perhaps a little harsh but certainly lots of running to little effect and a win ball/lose ball performance which is so frustrating. Hard to disagree with that. Not sure how much more rope Hughes will be giving this Number 10 thing. He's made so much play of his reinvention of Allen, though, so it's going to be a big call to put it on the back burner
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Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 2, 2017 10:05:08 GMT
Allen was poor last night, as he has been for a number of games recently, a lot of running to little effect with poor ball control and so many misplaced passes. If Bojan had misplaced so may passes, given the ball away so much and had such poor control he would have been slated by this board and hooked much earlier I imagine. It seems Bojan is judged by different criteria. It's not Allen's fault though, he doesn't choose his position.
When we signed Allen I hoped to see the Allen we'd seen playing for Wales where he was rightly lauded for his performances, but suddenly he metamorphosed into a "number 10", he had a purple patch there but has tailed off as I expected him to do. We were crying out for guile rather than what Allen provided last night and if we are to get the most out of Berahino I believe we need more than what Allen can provide in the number 10 role. I'd like to see him playing the role he played for Wales, where he had the energy, composure, skill and above all the discipline to excel in that position. Last night he reminded me of Dean Whitehead with upgraded batteries, perhaps a little harsh but certainly lots of running to little effect and a win ball/lose ball performance which is so frustrating. Hard to disagree with that. Not sure how much more rope Hughes will be giving this Number 10 thing. He's made so much play of his reinvention of Allen, though, so it's going to be a big call to put it on the back burner Yet another player being played out of position and looking worse than he is.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 10:08:39 GMT
Dog chasing a balloon.
Yesterday he must have ran the width of the pitch and back chasing the ball to no effect. He then turned around and bollocked the whole team for not doing the same and being right up there with him.
If by now he hasn't realised we don't play the high pressing game then god help him.
His endless running out of position, Adams inability to defend and Whelans cart horse pace means they cut through us at every opportunity and thankfully the defence was on form so they were given very little in regards to chances.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 10:09:19 GMT
For as bad as he was on the ball, we missed him off the ball when he went off.
The difference in front of the Everton back four was huge. The amount of time and space they had on the ball was like night and day prior to him going off.
I know that drags up other questions about what he's supposed to be there for, but I guess that is another argument entirely.
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Post by alster on Feb 2, 2017 11:26:18 GMT
Dog chasing a balloon. Yesterday he must have ran the width of the pitch and back chasing the ball to no effect. He then turned around and bollocked the whole team for not doing the same and being right up there with him. If by now he hasn't realised we don't play the high pressing game then god help him. His endless running out of position, Adams inability to defend and Whelans cart horse pace means they cut through us at every opportunity and thankfully the defence was on form so they were given very little in regards to chances. Been saying this for a while. There is simply no evidence that he's playing to a gameplan that involves the rest of our team, he's still playing for Klopp. I really don't know who that's more damning of the player or the management but its pretty fucking stupid.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 2, 2017 11:45:50 GMT
Dog chasing a balloon. Yesterday he must have ran the width of the pitch and back chasing the ball to no effect. He then turned around and bollocked the whole team for not doing the same and being right up there with him. If by now he hasn't realised we don't play the high pressing game then god help him. His endless running out of position, Adams inability to defend and Whelans cart horse pace means they cut through us at every opportunity and thankfully the defence was on form so they were given very little in regards to chances. Been saying this for a while. There is simply no evidence that he's playing to a gameplan that involves the rest of our team, he's still playing for Klopp. I really don't know who that's more damning of the player or the management but its pretty fucking stupid. Fair comments from both of you. I don't think he is a shit player, but he is playing a very strange game at the moment. What are his pre- match instructions?
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Post by jezzascfc on Feb 2, 2017 11:59:39 GMT
We need a creator at number 10 not a high pressing chaser of lost causes. Allen needs to be further back winning the ball, with a defensive midfielder beside him. Once Ramadan is back, I'd play him left, Arnie right and Shaq (if he stays fit!) at 10. Saido must take the lone striker spot once up to speed, with Crouchy as Plan B.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 2, 2017 13:23:27 GMT
Allen was poor last night, as he has been for a number of games recently, a lot of running to little effect with poor ball control and so many misplaced passes. If Bojan had misplaced so may passes, given the ball away so much and had such poor control he would have been slated by this board and hooked much earlier I imagine. It seems Bojan is judged by different criteria. It's not Allen's fault though, he doesn't choose his position.
When we signed Allen I hoped to see the Allen we'd seen playing for Wales where he was rightly lauded for his performances, but suddenly he metamorphosed into a "number 10", he had a purple patch there but has tailed off as I expected him to do. We were crying out for guile rather than what Allen provided last night and if we are to get the most out of Berahino I believe we need more than what Allen can provide in the number 10 role. I'd like to see him playing the role he played for Wales, where he had the energy, composure, skill and above all the discipline to excel in that position. Last night he reminded me of Dean Whitehead with upgraded batteries, perhaps a little harsh but certainly lots of running to little effect and a win ball/lose ball performance which is so frustrating. Hard to disagree with that. Not sure how much more rope Hughes will be giving this Number 10 thing. He's made so much play of his reinvention of Allen, though, so it's going to be a big call to put it on the back burner He just has to bite the bullet and admit the thing that looked like it might work briefly and was a stroke of genius really doesn’t really work at all, hasn’t he? It’s not a hanging offence it looked OK briefly but I get the impression that Allen was on such a high after his big money move and the Summer he had, he could have done a decent job in goal at the time! Now it just looks an absurd idea His exact best position in a Hughes side remains a complete mystery though so it might well be a harder decision to take than would be usual.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Feb 2, 2017 14:08:03 GMT
Problem being he's let Bojan go on the strength of it
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Joe Allen
Feb 2, 2017 14:14:50 GMT
via mobile
Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 2, 2017 14:14:50 GMT
Allen was poor last night, as he has been for a number of games recently, a lot of running to little effect with poor ball control and so many misplaced passes. If Bojan had misplaced so may passes, given the ball away so much and had such poor control he would have been slated by this board and hooked much earlier I imagine. It seems Bojan is judged by different criteria. It's not Allen's fault though, he doesn't choose his position.
When we signed Allen I hoped to see the Allen we'd seen playing for Wales where he was rightly lauded for his performances, but suddenly he metamorphosed into a "number 10", he had a purple patch there but has tailed off as I expected him to do. We were crying out for guile rather than what Allen provided last night and if we are to get the most out of Berahino I believe we need more than what Allen can provide in the number 10 role. I'd like to see him playing the role he played for Wales, where he had the energy, composure, skill and above all the discipline to excel in that position. Last night he reminded me of Dean Whitehead with upgraded batteries, perhaps a little harsh but certainly lots of running to little effect and a win ball/lose ball performance which is so frustrating. Hard to disagree with that. Not sure how much more rope Hughes will be giving this Number 10 thing. He's made so much play of his reinvention of Allen, though, so it's going to be a big call to put it on the back burner Do we need to play a number 10? Can we not just play 433 with a front 3 of Arnie, Shaq and Crouchy or Berahino.
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Post by iglugluk on Feb 2, 2017 14:16:46 GMT
Allen doesn't look like a natural attacking midfielder as far as I am seeing. We should try Shaq there, I reckon. Trouble is we don't have a replacement natural right winger at the moment which highlights the poor transfer market business over the summer as far as I am concerned.
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Joe Allen
Feb 2, 2017 14:22:23 GMT
via mobile
Post by cozmick on Feb 2, 2017 14:22:23 GMT
Bang average.
But 10 times the player Afelley will ever be.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 14:26:58 GMT
Bang average. But 10 times the player Afelley will ever be. You're funny
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 14:29:50 GMT
victim of his own success really.. Got off to an absolute flyer, and was classed as an absolute steal, but really not been on his A game for a few weeks now...Give him time, form is temporary, class is permanent
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 2, 2017 15:14:11 GMT
victim of his own success really.. Got off to an absolute flyer, and was classed as an absolute steal, but really not been on his A game for a few weeks now...Give him time, form is temporary, class is permanent Do you think so? In his current position?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 15:22:46 GMT
victim of his own success really.. Got off to an absolute flyer, and was classed as an absolute steal, but really not been on his A game for a few weeks now...Give him time, form is temporary, class is permanent Do you think so? In his current position? Sure do...I still genuinely believe he will come good...
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Feb 2, 2017 15:24:36 GMT
It's amazing we do as well as we do considering we've got so many shit players who put in so many shit performances...
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Joe Allen
Feb 2, 2017 15:29:06 GMT
via mobile
Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 2, 2017 15:29:06 GMT
Do you think so? In his current position? Sure do...I still genuinely believe he will come good... I certainly think he can come good but never in a million years where we're playing him. I think Hughes will have to what he wasn't prepared to do for Bojan and build a system round him.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 15:29:29 GMT
It's amazing we do as well as we do considering we've got so many shit players who put in so many shit performances... The oatcake football experts have spoken, it must be true.
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Joe Allen
Feb 2, 2017 15:35:00 GMT
via mobile
Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 2, 2017 15:35:00 GMT
It's amazing we do as well as we do considering we've got so many shit players who put in so many shit performances... I was thinking this last night. Are we actually a bit better than we think? I don't hear people saying that Everton or Manchester United are shit, but we competed with them, Everton especially.
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Joe Allen
Feb 2, 2017 15:40:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by trickydicky73 on Feb 2, 2017 15:40:57 GMT
Sure do...I still genuinely believe he will come good... I certainly think he can come good but never in a million years where we're playing him. I think Hughes will have to what he wasn't prepared to do for Bojan and build a system round him. What kind of midfielder is Allen, though? Is he a Mahoney type high energy grafter? I'm trying to get to grips with what his role is supposed to be?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 2, 2017 16:03:45 GMT
I certainly think he can come good but never in a million years where we're playing him. I think Hughes will have to what he wasn't prepared to do for Bojan and build a system round him. What kind of midfielder is Allen, though? Is he a Mahoney type high energy grafter? I'm trying to get to grips with what his role is supposed to be?
He's a high energy box to box midfield dynamo playing in a team that has been completely devoid of pace.
I'd argue that we aren't even really playing with a number 10 in the traditional sense of the word, rather that Allen is just playing a little further forward than where he has in the past.
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Post by jezzascfc on Feb 2, 2017 16:19:15 GMT
We need to play Allen as the box to boxer next to a mobile defensive midfielder, with a creator at 10 in front of them, pace out wide and a striker who makes runs down the channels and stretches defences. Right now, Joe is caught between two stools, and looks like a dog chasing a balloon - he can be far better than that if used properly.
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Post by pottersrule on Feb 2, 2017 16:24:10 GMT
Last two games has not been up to his usual level.Fatigue may be creeping in after his extended summer? Tonight wasn't down to fatigue, he just had a poor game, still got about, just couldn't take a decent touch or make a worthwhile pass. Yes he did get about, but fatigue can manifest itself in other ways as well. Could be bollocks but may explain it.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Feb 2, 2017 16:35:24 GMT
Hard to disagree with that. Not sure how much more rope Hughes will be giving this Number 10 thing. He's made so much play of his reinvention of Allen, though, so it's going to be a big call to put it on the back burner Do we need to play a number 10? Can we not just play 433 with a front 3 of Arnie, Shaq and Crouchy or Berahino. I agree. I suspect we may see 4-3-3 more in the last third of the season.
Back 4 picks itself, front 3 Shaq, Saido and Arnie.
Depending on the opposition and whether we are home or away, the middle 3 will be Whelan, Adam, Allen, Afellay, Imbula or Cameron.
Personally I would like to see Whelan and Imbula with one of Charlie, Ibi or Joe, and see which combo works best.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 2, 2017 16:37:37 GMT
We need to play Allen as the box to boxer next to a mobile defensive midfielder, with a creator at 10 in front of them, pace out wide and a striker who makes runs down the channels and stretches defences. Right now, Joe is caught between two stools, and looks like a dog chasing a balloon - he can be far better than that if used properly.
Agree on all counts.
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Post by jimmygscfc on Feb 2, 2017 16:46:53 GMT
We need to play Allen as the box to boxer next to a mobile defensive midfielder, with a creator at 10 in front of them, pace out wide and a striker who makes runs down the channels and stretches defences. Right now, Joe is caught between two stools, and looks like a dog chasing a balloon - he can be far better than that if used properly. Our midfield is running on fumes at the moment. Whelan is putting a shift in, as is Adam, but come next season there really is no way they should be in our starting midfield. The energy and dynamism that we need is absent in these two gallant warriors. There are many questions to be answered as far as our midfield is concerned. What do we do with a problem called Imbula? Joe Allen needs to play where he's best, as Jezza says. He's a box to box midfielder. I was screaming each time I saw a ball pumped up and him jumping for it. A new DM and Allen next to him with a 'proper' number 10 behind Berahino. Keep Shaq where he is for now because moving him inside just creates another problem. You'd have to switch Arnie over to the right and Sobhi to the left and why inconvenience our best player. We might decide to cut our losses with Imbula but it would be a major back down from Hughes. I can't believe that we're not going to look at another striker in the Summer as if Berahino gets injured we're back to Crouch and Walters as our options, given Diouf isn't being considered there. So that's three players we desperately need, plus at least one new full back (probably right). We'll trundle along for the rest of the season and could finish anywhere between 14th and 9th, but if me manage a fourth season in arow in 9th I'll be staggered. Please God, we get Jack Butland back for 2017/18, even though Grant has been excellent. I'm happy to wait until the Summer, but anyone thinking it's not going to be painful in terms of transfer activity is going to be surprised.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 16:59:48 GMT
Dog chasing a balloon. Yesterday he must have ran the width of the pitch and back chasing the ball to no effect. He then turned around and bollocked the whole team for not doing the same and being right up there with him. If by now he hasn't realised we don't play the high pressing game then god help him. His endless running out of position, Adams inability to defend and Whelans cart horse pace means they cut through us at every opportunity and thankfully the defence was on form so they were given very little in regards to chances. Been saying this for a while. There is simply no evidence that he's playing to a gameplan that involves the rest of our team, he's still playing for Klopp. I really don't know who that's more damning of the player or the management but its pretty fucking stupid. There is a decent tenacious player there but not a world beater. Hughes needs to get him to one side, drill some positional discipline into him and tell him calm down. He would then make a decent midfielder. That said he's no number 10 and never will be but we are determined to keep him there even at the cost of the team.
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