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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2017 8:01:53 GMT
Whoever we get let's at least accept we'll carry on getting fucked over. It'll never happen but if the Tories did win perhaps it'd shock government into spending some time and money here? Either way be prepared for months of roasting and condescension towards the city and its people in equal measure from the national media and commentators. A BBC Question Time from Stoke would be interesting as the campaigning ramps up. More important is how they spend the money they already get
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Post by Linx on Jan 15, 2017 22:36:44 GMT
Please define a 'leftish' from a corbynista. Before Corbyn Labour (or New Labour as we should define) en masse voted for tuition fees, illegal wars & more austerity. Those against Corbyn weren't left. They were the dying embers of Blairism which itself was born out of the neo-liberal philosophy that Margaret Thatcher implemented. People quite rightly came to treat New Labour with disdain. Contrary to that Waggy messer says it was New Labour policies and actions that lost votes every single election since '97. Stoke Central tells you all need to know to form a logical conclusion. In 1997 Labour won 26,662 votes, achieving 66.2% of the vote. Just compare those numbers with the 2015 election, it's grim reading. Labour, 12,220 total votes tallied and 39.3% of the vote. That was a nationwide story. Those pitiful numbers had nothing to do with Corbyn but it was the reason he was elected. He was elected on a mandate of policies that fly in the face of what New Labour had came to be. They did however have the power of Murdoch & the other established media before they decided the young upstart David Cameron was a better bet than the fumbling oaf Gordon Brown. Those behind the coup are the very people that caused the party to be voted out in the first place. The reason they attempted it in such desperate fashion is because they know what Jeremy Corbyn represents, how could they not, he voted against the New Labour party whip 428 times. New Labour, like the Tories, operate to serve the interests of the establishment. As Doherty sings about they're one & the same. That's why we had this en masse overnight attack to topple him and why every story you read or watch will have been made to run a negative angle. They stand to lose a lot should Corbyn lead Labour to election victory. Left & right in a developed country should only refer to economic & social policy. Corbyn stands for a redistribution of the GDP. That doesn't mean an attack on the middle classes or rationed bread. It means obvious things like having companies pay taxes, not allowing the richest to manipulate the tax system with offshore accounts, wage rises, employment protection and those things called houses. Pretty basic stuff. New Labour, Tories & UKIP stand for the opposite. Reduced state and more power for hedgefunds to buy up corporations operating within the UK and take the profits outside of the country. If anyone is thinking about voting UKIP you should take the time to find out their origins. I applaud them for being the spark that got us out of the European Union. It was a damning failure of the left that they were absent from the charge to leave. Probably down to having no outlet to get their message out I suppose. The real values of New Labour were reduced to a few backbenchers until Corbyn came to the fore by which point the referendum was near sealed. So UKIP get rightful credit for enabling us to escape the EU nightmare but it shouldn't be forgotten who and what they are. They're the invention of disgruntled conservatives. They have no concern for the 'working man' demographic that they will target. The political system is such that only two parties will ever win an election thus ruling UKIP out. They're being backed for the specific purpose to wipe out Labour northern areas on the back of a false narrative created by the mainstream media. People would be extremely foolish to fall for their shit. If you want to earn more money and have public services that are funded there is only one party to vote for, everything else represents the opposite. Excellent post - wish I'd written it. Question to Linx, and this isn't rhetorical -I'm just interested in your answer - what would/did your grandad make of Blair and New Labour? Not sure. He died in 1979, a few weeks after Thatcher took office. The 'Old Labour' governments of Wilson and Callaghan had hardly covered themselves in glory but, let's face it, the 1970s were a car crash for any government, including Ted Heath's Tories. But my grandad was proper old Labour, canvassing in the 1920s and 1930s, and a big supporter of Attlee's leadership in the 1940s. He regarded the 'Famous Four' who split the Labour Party to form the SDP as traitorous and misguided; I suspect if that was his opinion of them, even though they had been previous stalwarts like Jenkins and Williams, then his opinion of Blairism would have been similar. But who knows? I was so glad back in 1997 to say goodbye to 18 years of Toryism, that I felt Blair's pragmatic socialism was a small price to pay. But then, I am an unprincipled tart, always have been
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Post by auntiegeorge on Jan 15, 2017 23:19:42 GMT
Your grandfather sounds just like my old grandad (1908-1984). He was a true old style socialist who lived in poverty for most of his working life in a 2 up 2 down in Burslem with wife and 3 children. He was a rabid supporter of Atlee in the 40s and before the NHS was born could not afford to pay the doctor for even the most basic treatment (those were the days when doctors made house calls). My father has told us many times that they were so desperately poor that sometimes the family sat down to a plate of carrots for dinner. Grandad was a huge supporter of Wilson in the 60s and the Callaghan government in the 70s. In his later years if you ever mentioned the words Thatcher or Conservative in his house all conversation would stop and the atmosphere would become ice cold. I remember that. There was absolutely no debating with him on politics.
A point of correction. The SDP did not form until 1981. Jenkins had already left parliament and Williams had lost her Labour seat in 1979. Only Owen and Rodgers were sitting Labour MPs.
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Post by Dutchpeter on Jan 16, 2017 0:13:18 GMT
Margaret Thatcher successfully targeted young blue collar workers during the 1979 election. We look back at the 1970s, and 'blame' the social and political turmoil on people like Jack Jones of the TGWU. The old union leaders were pragmatic and generally played the game. The baby boomer generation that'd never known poverty, and were used to year on year living standards improvements, demanded more. The big strikes of the late 1970s were often wild cat/unofficial strikes by younger members. When Jim Callaghan couldn't deliver, and Margaret Thatcher came calling, they voted for Thatcher in Droves. Thatcherism and the demands of the proletariat were pretty close.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 0:20:29 GMT
Your grandfather sounds just like my old grandad (1908-1984). He was a true old style socialist who lived in poverty for most of his working life in a 2 up 2 down in Burslem with wife and 3 children. He was a rabid supporter of Atlee in the 40s and before the NHS was born could not afford to pay the doctor for even the most basic treatment (those were the days when doctors made house calls). My father has told us many times that they were so desperately poor that sometimes the family sat down to a plate of carrots for dinner. Grandad was a huge supporter of Wilson in the 60s and the Callaghan government in the 70s. In his later years if you ever mentioned the words Thatcher or Conservative in his house all conversation would stop and the atmosphere would become ice cold. I remember that. There was absolutely no debating with him on politics. A point of correction. The SDP did not form until 1981. Jenkins had already left parliament and Williams had lost her Labour seat in 1979. Only Owen and Rodgers were sitting Labour MPs. Very similar to my grandad .....who was always right .....I loved and respected my grandad more than I can ever say ...but I could never agree with his politics ....I understood where he was coming from, but I didn't always agree with him .....of course I knew nothing , but that's how it is .....I wish he was still here to point out to me my lack of understanding of the world .....RIP Grandad
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 16, 2017 8:45:34 GMT
Whats the point of voting UKIP?
Unless of course you want a privatised NHS, less rights for workers and tax cuts for the richest 1% of the population
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jan 16, 2017 9:22:52 GMT
Whats the point of voting UKIP? Unless of course you want a privatised NHS, less rights for workers and tax cuts for the richest 1% of the population And Farage as British Ambassador in Trumpski's Washington D.C.! Farageski will be swapping pints of beer for pints of Russian vodka!
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Post by retired on Jan 16, 2017 12:04:54 GMT
the times descibed stoke as the brexit capital of the country..undoubtably we will be on TV .However the job is short term and we will be wiped off the political map anyway..Having the first UKIP mp will be something of a change any way. Cant be any worse than any of his/hers prior gov representatives.And at least we will be newsworthy for some time.
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Post by redstriper on Jan 16, 2017 12:09:41 GMT
This should bring some much needed focus onto the problems of S-o-T, which have been ignored for far too long.
I'm looking forward to the debates.
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Post by auntiegeorge on Jan 16, 2017 12:18:24 GMT
This should bring some much needed focus onto the problems of S-o-T, which have been ignored for far too long. I'm looking forward to the debates. I think that's the most incisive comment on the whole discussion. Well said.
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Post by stockportstokie on Jan 16, 2017 12:53:41 GMT
the times descibed stoke as the brexit capital of the country..undoubtably we will be on TV .However the job is short term and we will be wiped off the political map anyway..Having the first UKIP mp will be something of a change any way. Cant be any worse than any of his/hers prior gov representatives.And at least we will be newsworthy for some time. That's a really crap reason for being in the news mate.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 12:56:18 GMT
Whats the point of voting UKIP? Unless of course you want a privatised NHS, less rights for workers and tax cuts for the richest 1% of the population Do you think it's not going that way under any other party? the privatisation of the NHS started the day new labour won the election all those years ago
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Post by stockportstokie on Jan 16, 2017 12:59:06 GMT
Whats the point of voting UKIP? Unless of course you want a privatised NHS, less rights for workers and tax cuts for the richest 1% of the population Do you think it's not going that way under any other party? the privatisation of the NHS started the day new labour won the election all those years ago New Labour are dead.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 13:02:45 GMT
Do you think it's not going that way under any other party? the privatisation of the NHS started the day new labour won the election all those years ago New Labour are dead. Corrected it for you
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 13:43:15 GMT
No matter what happens over the next few weeks I've a feeling that the city is going to emerge with an even worse reputation than it currently has.
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 16, 2017 14:08:29 GMT
Corrected it for you The fightback has started, in the latest who will make the best PM, Jezza now has a 1% lead over don't know and is only 12% behind none and 24% behind May.
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Post by stockportstokie on Jan 16, 2017 14:55:54 GMT
Corrected it for you The fightback has started, in the latest who will make the best PM, Jezza now has a 1% lead over don't know and is only 12% behind none and 24% behind May. You don't even know who owns the majority of polling companies or what purpose they serve. Ya fucking xmas voting turkey.
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 16, 2017 15:02:38 GMT
The fightback has started, in the latest who will make the best PM, Jezza now has a 1% lead over don't know and is only 12% behind none and 24% behind May. You don't even know who owns the majority of polling companies or what purpose they serve. Ya fucking xmas voting turkey. Someone has been reading The Canary or some such bullshit conspiracy peddling website.
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Post by stockportstokie on Jan 16, 2017 15:32:26 GMT
You don't even know who owns the majority of polling companies or what purpose they serve. Ya fucking xmas voting turkey. Someone has been reading The Canary or some such bullshit conspiracy peddling website. Err no the information is there to be found for anyone who isn't a sheep. Do you know what entity has the biggest stake in You Gov for instance?
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 16, 2017 16:06:47 GMT
Someone has been reading The Canary or some such bullshit conspiracy peddling website. Err no the information is there to be found for anyone who isn't a sheep. Do you know what entity has the biggest stake in You Gov for instance? Can't remember if it's You Gov or another that was or is part owned by a conservative MP, Zahiwi or something. The one that you or Huddy or someone of a similar ilk was accusing of selling oil to ISIS although I missed whoever made the allegation correcting themselves when press TV had to pay libel damages. But by the by, feel free to explain the relevance of the ownership of the pollsters.
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Post by stockportstokie on Jan 16, 2017 16:10:09 GMT
Err no the information is there to be found for anyone who isn't a sheep. Do you know what entity has the biggest stake in You Gov for instance? Can't remember if it's You Gov or another that was or is part owned by a conservative MP, Zahiwi or something. The one that you or Huddy or someone of a similar ilk was accusing of selling oil to ISIS although I missed whoever made the allegation correcting themselves when press TV had to pay libel damages. But by the by, feel free to explain the relevance of the ownership of the pollsters. I've no idea what you've just jibbed on about but I'll take that as a no. Perhaps you should refrain from being so opinionated considering your ignorance.
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 16, 2017 16:25:29 GMT
Can't remember if it's You Gov or another that was or is part owned by a conservative MP, Zahiwi or something. The one that you or Huddy or someone of a similar ilk was accusing of selling oil to ISIS although I missed whoever made the allegation correcting themselves when press TV had to pay libel damages. But by the by, feel free to explain the relevance of the ownership of the pollsters. I've no idea what you've just jibbed on about but I'll take that as a no. Perhaps you should refrain from being so opinionated considering your ignorance. It was the one set up by Zahawi before he became a Tory MP. If I want to find out who the major shareholders are now I'd google it as it would be disclosed as they're a public listed company. Gone very shy on your bullshit conspiracy theory now I see.
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Post by Mendicant on Jan 16, 2017 16:36:28 GMT
Who will Dolores vote for I wonder? No doubt she'll be disappointed it's not for the Senator of Kentucky, cuz she loves their style of cuisine, but all the same she's part of an important demographic. Edit: just realised, Tunstall is iter binds for this election.
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Post by stockportstokie on Jan 16, 2017 16:36:34 GMT
I've no idea what you've just jibbed on about but I'll take that as a no. Perhaps you should refrain from being so opinionated considering your ignorance. It was the one set up by Zahawi before he became a Tory MP. If I want to find out who the major shareholders are now I'd google it as it would be disclosed as they're a public listed company. Gone very shy on your bullshit conspiracy theory now I see. You've added the last bit for a bit of bait, you little rascal. You Gov is majority owned by Black Rock Inc ya little sheeple. Keep citing polls, they're really transparent and aren't tools to manage an agenda whatsoever
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 16, 2017 16:51:25 GMT
It was the one set up by Zahawi before he became a Tory MP. If I want to find out who the major shareholders are now I'd google it as it would be disclosed as they're a public listed company. Gone very shy on your bullshit conspiracy theory now I see. You've added the last bit for a bit of bait, you little rascal. You Gov is majority owned by Black Rock Inc ya little sheeple. Keep citing polls, they're really transparent and aren't tools to manage an agenda whatsoever Last time I checked 51% was a majority not 12.27% Investment firm owns shares in profitable company, what is the world coming too next thing you know pension firms will be investing, oh hang on yougov.co.uk/about/investors/shareholders/
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Post by penkvillepotter on Jan 16, 2017 17:00:44 GMT
Without getting into a mega discussion, for the first time in my life I have a vote that counts and it's bloody exciting and a bit confusing.
I am a Labour by birth and upbringing but Corbyn is wrecking the joint. I vowed he wouldn't get my vote when he got dragged off by some woman from Momentum as refused to answeàar a question regarding Trump's victory in either getting the Republican nominee or winning the Presidential vote. I think it was the one where he was hiding behind clear glass!
But I can't and won't vote UKIP but if I don't vote Labour UKIP could get in. Politics aside, I'm also of the opinion that now SOT is bidding for City of Culture in 2021 I don't think it would reflect favourably on us if UKIP did win. Personal view, don't shout me down on this.
Which way I vote has never mattered before but I'm going to enjoy being on the political map for a while.
Let battle commence.
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Post by rogerjonesisgod on Jan 17, 2017 16:27:27 GMT
Without getting into a mega discussion, for the first time in my life I have a vote that counts and it's bloody exciting and a bit confusing. I am a Labour by birth and upbringing but Corbyn is wrecking the joint. I vowed he wouldn't get my vote when he got dragged off by some woman from Momentum as refused to answeàar a question regarding Trump's victory in either getting the Republican nominee or winning the Presidential vote. I think it was the one where he was hiding behind clear glass! But I can't and won't vote UKIP but if I don't vote Labour UKIP could get in. Politics aside, I'm also of the opinion that now SOT is bidding for City of Culture in 2021 I don't think it would reflect favourably on us if UKIP did win. Personal view, don't shout me down on this. Which way I vote has never mattered before but I'm going to enjoy being on the political map for a while. Let battle commence. Not shouting you down mate but your opening words "I am Labour by birth and upbringing" need a little thought. Why are you Labour by birth?
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Post by TrentValePotter96 on Jan 18, 2017 12:48:28 GMT
looks like Paul Nuttall will stand for UKIP
Another parachuted candidate by the looks of it, Labour needs a local person (Not Pervez not Pervez not Pervez) to have the best chance of winning.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2017 17:03:03 GMT
Invest in tech, get educated, retrain, whatever you need to do. You have to move with the times. Take control of your life before the robots do. And it's the left that get criticised for being utopian!
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jan 19, 2017 22:07:02 GMT
looks like Paul Nuttall will stand for UKIP Another parachuted candidate by the looks of it, Labour needs a local person (Not Pervez not Pervez not Pervez) to have the best chance of winning. Interesting that they've parachuted a career politician and a member of the liberal elite into challenge the seat. Surely a suicidal move in a place like Stoke Central.
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