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Post by kustokie on Jan 30, 2017 0:08:18 GMT
Thanks. It's worse than I thought. The one player he hasn't tried on a regular basis is the one player that could actually rip the oppposing FB a new one is Arni. Am I missing something? Arnie is the best left winger we have at the club by a mile! Oh and another one for the list-N'Goy! True. He may be the best right winger as well. So for he best compromise might be Arnie on the right and Sohbi on the left.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 30, 2017 0:09:33 GMT
Arnie is the best left winger we have at the club by a mile! Oh and another one for the list-N'Goy! True. He may be the best right winger as well. So for he best compromise might be Arnie on the right and Sohbi on the left. But as you've said yourself, it's a compromise. We shouldn't be in a place where we need to compromise.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jan 30, 2017 0:13:33 GMT
Surely the deal is as much about locking some residual value in an asset, rather than letting a Premier League record winner walk away on a free this summer. {that would be negligent in a business sense.} No. Crouch with his goals, assists and defensive nous etc has earned himself game time, but it's still a squad game. Yes agree Berahino has been bought as a striker/goalscorer. Eased in where? and then put on the right? Yes there's been times when Diouf/Walters/Bojan and co have been given a berth on the flank. Apart from the fact that Hughes and co have different perceptions of wide forwards, it's not a massive issue imo, he didn't give Kenwynne or Bony or Crouch, the 'proper' strikers a go on the wing. Anyway at this moment that's guesswork from you. Hughes has said explicitly that Saido has been bought for up front. Yes true. Saido is a pacy forward that can dribble. Even Hughes wouldn't be silly enough to stick slow, tall target men like Ken, Crouch or Bony on the wing. I think hell be a winger for a few cameo sub appearances. Then when Crouch's run ends he'll be sent back to the bench for Berahino. I wouldn't have an issue with that at all.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jan 30, 2017 0:22:28 GMT
Surely the deal is as much about locking some residual value in an asset, rather than letting a Premier League record winner walk away on a free this summer. {that would be negligent in a business sense.} Yes agree Berahino has been bought as a striker/goalscorer. Eased in where? and then put on the right? Yes there's been times when Diouf/Walters/Bojan and co have been given a berth on the flank. Apart from the fact that Hughes and co have different perceptions of wide forwards, it's not a massive issue imo, he didn't give Kenwynne or Bony or Crouch, the 'proper' strikers a go on the wing. Anyway at this moment that's guesswork from you. Hughes has said explicitly that Saido has been bought for up front. Yes true. That sounds highly unlikely to me, he was signed because the manager rates him. Eased in from the bench. Hughes has said that but it wasn't explicitly, there was also some fluff about that it might not be the case in the short but long term that's where he sees him. He won't drop Crouch in the next 5 games. Well of course Hughes rates him too. Hughes said that Saido can play out wide, but that's not what he was bought for. I don't see an issue if he does get a few games out wide, hone the effort needed, see on the pitch what yer team mates can do etc. {if it happens} etc. Crystal ball stuff. If it comes true then hopefully it's on merit. Not a problem. {We havn't sold Bojan for less than your £12mill asking price yet, so who really knows what'll happen, not worth being too critical about shit that hasn't happened yet.}
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 30, 2017 0:30:51 GMT
That sounds highly unlikely to me, he was signed because the manager rates him. Eased in from the bench. Hughes has said that but it wasn't explicitly, there was also some fluff about that it might not be the case in the short but long term that's where he sees him. He won't drop Crouch in the next 5 games. Well of course Hughes rates him too. Hughes said that Saido can play out wide, but that's not what he was bought for. I don't see an issue if he does get a few games out wide, hone the effort needed, see on the pitch what yer team mates can do etc. {if it happens} etc. Crystal ball stuff. If it comes true then hopefully it's on merit. Not a problem. {We havn't sold Bojan for less than your £12mill asking price yet, so who really knows what'll happen, not worth being too critical about shit that hasn't happened yet.} Business won't have come into it. Of course you won't, I will. Getting rid of him period is fucked up.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jan 30, 2017 0:37:42 GMT
Well of course Hughes rates him too. Hughes said that Saido can play out wide, but that's not what he was bought for. I don't see an issue if he does get a few games out wide, hone the effort needed, see on the pitch what yer team mates can do etc. {if it happens} etc. Crystal ball stuff. If it comes true then hopefully it's on merit. Not a problem. {We havn't sold Bojan for less than your £12mill asking price yet, so who really knows what'll happen, not worth being too critical about shit that hasn't happened yet.} Business won't have come into it. Of course you won't, I will. Getting rid of him period is fucked up. Ha ha. Isn't this a proper opportunity for Bojan? We havn't got rid yet, if he storms the Bundesliga it's all very different. I'd be making it up if I pretended to know the full dynamics behind this.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 30, 2017 0:44:05 GMT
Business won't have come into it. Of course you won't, I will. Getting rid of him period is fucked up. Ha ha. Isn't this a proper opportunity for Bojan? We havn't got rid yet, if he storms the Bundesliga it's all very different. I'd be making it up if I pretended to know the full dynamics behind this. I suspect he'll be given the same chance Huth was.....
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Post by daveuppercut on Jan 30, 2017 0:56:09 GMT
What troubles me is (and there is a very good chance I'm missing something here) That no one seems to know our best starting eleven, our best formation or what players will be best in which positions, I'm not even sure what our overall style of play is. Everyone from Hughes down to the football ignorant like me seems to have a different opinion of what we should be doing in pretty much every aspect of the starting eleven. Now I could be missing something, I'm not the most tactically clued up fan, but it just doesn't seem right to me. Are other teams in the league in this same position? Or is it a case of a first choice team, set style and formation and like for like substitutions, because when you're forced into bringing a player like Shaq off and replacing him with Walters, it doesn't seem right. Again I could be missing something, this could be a standard situation for a prem team.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jan 30, 2017 1:12:49 GMT
Ha ha. Isn't this a proper opportunity for Bojan? We havn't got rid yet, if he storms the Bundesliga it's all very different. I'd be making it up if I pretended to know the full dynamics behind this. I suspect he'll be given the same chance Huth was..... I suspect Hughes gave him the 'Cock or nein cock' prior to the Wolves game.
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Post by kustokie on Jan 30, 2017 1:42:58 GMT
True. He may be the best right winger as well. So for he best compromise might be Arnie on the right and Sohbi on the left. But as you've said yourself, it's a compromise. We shouldn't be in a place where we need to compromise. Everything in life is compromise.
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Post by kustokie on Jan 30, 2017 1:46:47 GMT
I can't see anyone at a top club paying a lot for Bojan until they have seen some evidence that he can play anywhere close to where he was before he got his injury. Too risky.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jan 30, 2017 6:51:34 GMT
I just hope it isn't another Huth/Nzonzi situation where he does well and his name gets dragged up constantly.
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Post by pez75 on Jan 30, 2017 9:04:12 GMT
I just hope it isn't another Huth/Nzonzi situation where he does well and his name gets dragged up constantly. Well good luck with that - seeing as he is still a Stoke player after all...
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Post by JoeinOz on Jan 30, 2017 9:42:49 GMT
I just hope it isn't another Huth/Nzonzi situation where he does well and his name gets dragged up constantly. Well good luck with that - seeing as he is still a Stoke player after all... There is that yes. 😀
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Post by RichJonesy on Jan 30, 2017 10:20:10 GMT
What troubles me is (and there is a very good chance I'm missing something here) That no one seems to know our best starting eleven, our best formation or what players will be best in which positions, I'm not even sure what our overall style of play is. Everyone from Hughes down to the football ignorant like me seems to have a different opinion of what we should be doing in pretty much every aspect of the starting eleven. Now I could be missing something, I'm not the most tactically clued up fan, but it just doesn't seem right to me. Are other teams in the league in this same position? Or is it a case of a first choice team, set style and formation and like for like substitutions, because when you're forced into bringing a player like Shaq off and replacing him with Walters, it doesn't seem right. Again I could be missing something, this could be a standard situation for a prem team. I'm very confident that Hughes does but I'm also sure that it changes week on week. That might be for personal reasons, injury, confidence or whatever. For instance a few monthes back Cameron was looking good in dm then he got injured so to suit only having Whelan who can play there naturally we adjusted the shape slightly. Same for Bojan. Pre injury probably one of the first names on the team sheet. Then obviously out for a period he had a good pre-season but didn't look great when the league started. wether its confidence or something else we all know he wasn't the same. But then Mark has to adjust his best 11 to fill the gap left by leaving Bojan out. That then became Allen who started that position brilliantly.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Jan 30, 2017 10:35:03 GMT
I just hope it isn't another Huth/Nzonzi situation where he does well and his name gets dragged up constantly. I hope it is a situation where he does well... so that he can come back full of confidence and the management team have no option as he would have proven himself
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Jan 30, 2017 10:49:47 GMT
Will he be the main mainz?
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Post by JoeinOz on Jan 30, 2017 10:56:42 GMT
I just hope it isn't another Huth/Nzonzi situation where he does well and his name gets dragged up constantly. I hope it is a situation where he does well... so that he can come back full of confidence and the management team have no option as he would have proven himself That would be my preference too.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 30, 2017 11:17:30 GMT
What troubles me is (and there is a very good chance I'm missing something here) That no one seems to know our best starting eleven, our best formation or what players will be best in which positions, I'm not even sure what our overall style of play is. Everyone from Hughes down to the football ignorant like me seems to have a different opinion of what we should be doing in pretty much every aspect of the starting eleven. Now I could be missing something, I'm not the most tactically clued up fan, but it just doesn't seem right to me. Are other teams in the league in this same position? Or is it a case of a first choice team, set style and formation and like for like substitutions, because when you're forced into bringing a player like Shaq off and replacing him with Walters, it doesn't seem right. Again I could be missing something, this could be a standard situation for a prem team. I'm very confident that Hughes does but I'm also sure that it changes week on week. That might be for personal reasons, injury, confidence or whatever. For instance a few monthes back Cameron was looking good in dm then he got injured so to suit only having Whelan who can play there naturally we adjusted the shape slightly. Same for Bojan. Pre injury probably one of the first names on the team sheet. Then obviously out for a period he had a good pre-season but didn't look great when the league started. wether its confidence or something else we all know he wasn't the same. But then Mark has to adjust his best 11 to fill the gap left by leaving Bojan out. That then became Allen who started that position brilliantly. I would say that Hughes knows what he would like his first choice XI to be, but factors come into play that prevent us ever seeing it. Obviously injuries is a major issue and I think we would all agree that we have dropped a lot of points due to Butland's injury. The main difficulty though IMO is those players that Hughes has bought to do a job which have disappointed, but he still probably feels need to be persisted with to try and turn them round and achieve what he considers their potential. Bojan and Imbula are the main issues here, but also Diouf and other strikers. Half of Oatcake is devoted to debate about whether a player should be persisted with, used better/differently, or sold. Really we should not be surprised that the likes of Bojan, Imbula, Shaqiri, and co. are not all we would want them to be. The reason they are at Stoke is because they weren't doing it at their previous clubs and no CL club wanted them. Personally I am delighted to see such players and I have friends, relatives, and acquaintances who are fans of Boro, Leeds, Sunderland, and Blackburn and are very envious of the Stoke team.
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Post by nott1 on Jan 30, 2017 11:50:44 GMT
I want to put on record my disgust at the little magicians treatment, and Hughes better have him back next season or else!
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Post by jimmygscfc on Jan 30, 2017 12:08:50 GMT
Sending Bojan to Mainz does not bode well for his future in my opinion. I understand why we've not let him go to another Premiership team but not sure what this will do for his confidence.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 12:11:09 GMT
I want to put on record my disgust at the little magicians treatment, and Hughes better have him back next season or else! Maybe the Spaniard will be back next season, but maybe we'll see the back of the Welshman In all honesty I don't really care either way. It's just a game of football and I think stoke city is in good hands
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Post by liamo on Jan 30, 2017 12:13:52 GMT
Let's just hope we don't find ourselves in a position where we're struggling to create any chances at all over the next few months
It's all good and well having a swanky new striker if you've got the players to supply him, be a bit foolish if we're struggling to create chances while our brightest creative spark is in Germany
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Post by stokief on Jan 30, 2017 12:25:54 GMT
Maybe Bojan goes to a team in a league where he can shine again, thus regaining his confidence and his star-man status without being in the British media spotlight. If it all goes pear-shaped for him out there the only ones really noticing it will be us. I really hope that he does well and that the door hasn't been firmly shut on a return here if that happens. Seems the best choice all round.
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Post by Old School Stokie on Jan 30, 2017 12:26:50 GMT
Unfortunately he was a liability and had definitely not got back to the heights he achieved. Knocked off the ball too easily although no different in build to Silva of Man City. If he toughens up while in the Bundesliga and learns to contribute more to the team then there is no reason why we cannot recall him at the end of his loan period, but Hughes had too many not putting a shift in already with Arnie & Shaq + Bony so something just had to give. Probably the same short sighted people on here moaning as they did when we had that headless chicken Tuncay in the side.
Get real we need some steele in this team not mamby pamby weak links
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Post by BeauTDSC on Jan 30, 2017 12:37:13 GMT
I think Mark Hughes must have liked what he has already seen in training with Saido to let the little man go out on loan. I would love to see him back. He has unfinished business at Stoke.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 12:42:06 GMT
Unfortunately he was a liability and had definitely not got back to the heights he achieved. Knocked off the ball too easily although no different in build to Silva of Man City. If he toughens up while in the Bundesliga and learns to contribute more to the team then there is no reason why we cannot recall him at the end of his loan period, but Hughes had too many not putting a shift in already with Arnie & Shaq + Bony so something just had to give. Probably the same short sighted people on here moaning as they did when we had that headless chicken Tuncay in the side. Get real we need some steele in this team not mamby pamby weak links I think to say that Arnie doesn't put a shift in is undeniable nonsense. Bony has played 6 minutes since November 19th.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jan 30, 2017 12:43:31 GMT
If the suitors were Mainz, Watford and Middlesborough, there is a message there about the perceived level Bojan is at, I would regrad Stoke City as being at a higher level than these three clubs
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Post by redwhite on Jan 30, 2017 12:45:01 GMT
Unfortunately he was a liability and had definitely not got back to the heights he achieved. Knocked off the ball too easily although no different in build to Silva of Man City. If he toughens up while in the Bundesliga and learns to contribute more to the team then there is no reason why we cannot recall him at the end of his loan period, but Hughes had too many not putting a shift in already with Arnie & Shaq + Bony so something just had to give. Probably the same short sighted people on here moaning as they did when we had that headless chicken Tuncay in the side. Get real we need some steele in this team not mamby pamby weak links Arnie doesn't put in a shift?
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Post by chigstoke on Jan 30, 2017 12:49:04 GMT
Unfortunately he was a liability and had definitely not got back to the heights he achieved. Knocked off the ball too easily although no different in build to Silva of Man City. If he toughens up while in the Bundesliga and learns to contribute more to the team then there is no reason why we cannot recall him at the end of his loan period, but Hughes had too many not putting a shift in already with Arnie & Shaq + Bony so something just had to give. Probably the same short sighted people on here moaning as they did when we had that headless chicken Tuncay in the side. Get real we need some steele in this team not mamby pamby weak links I think to say that Arnie doesn't put a shift in is undeniable nonsense. Bony has played 6 minutes since November 19th. Seriously? Good Lord that's shocking. What must he be doing in Training? Impersonations of a Footballer?
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