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Post by RichJonesy on Jan 29, 2017 22:22:15 GMT
Sorry to take the thread back a whole hour but, on the subject of Bojan going, and Shaqiri playing the number 10 role, or not, and Robin saying Shaqiri can play there and so on.... Ryan CAN play right back. Pieters CAN play centre back. Arnie CAN play right wing. Cameron CAN play....well you get my point, and that is I agree with Bayern and what I think he's saying that why play Shaqiri there? His best position is the one he's played more than (probably) 95% of his career. On the right. Ryan can't play right back ,pieters can't play centre half...you can't compare their ability to play more than one position to shaqiri's. Sorry, you're right there. What I was thinking of was Huth playing at right back. But do you get my point? Play your players in their best positions. If we don't sign anyone else then moving Shaqiri inside means we'll be playing more players out of position to accommodate him playing out of position. And while I agree with Bayern on where he's taken this. I also think the General is right that we will adjust the system in some way and play without a number 10. Not sure what system though....only Mark Hughes knows that and god knows what he's thinking.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jan 29, 2017 22:23:09 GMT
And that's why it's straw clutching. But it just shows how disjointed it's all got. I'll copy and paste what I said an hour ago.. "Might lead to a slight change of system. Instead of having 1 behind the striker we might have 1 in front of the back 4 who basically doesn't move. I'd assume that would be Whelan with 2 midfielders in front of him. Any 2 from Allen, Afellay, Imbula and Adam.. which doesn't seem so bad to me. Leaving Arnie and Shaq to roam in and around the striker more without a typical "number 10" in that position potentially taking up space they could use" .. now Bayern, is that such a bad thing? Or does this #10 obsession mean we can't play in a different way? I'm hoping the gaffer isn't as rooted in a way of playing as you think he is. Hughes turned to that more solid 433 at Old Trafford, and we went on a good run. It's in the repertoire. A solid platform for a front three of Arnie Berahino Shaq perhaps might be just the ticket. Adam slotting passes through in a three man midfield. Steady back four, starts to look a really balanced team and something more akin to Hughes Blackburn and Fulham sides. Diouf Ramadan Bony etc off the bench, strong. I would be happy with that.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 29, 2017 22:24:12 GMT
Yes but that midfield looks shite! And I can't see Crouch being dropped any time soon. It's neat and tidy and you could just as easily give Adam, Imbula or Even Ireland a go in there. The key for me is to get in a more imposing DM in. Cameron could do a job but I'd love a young, 6'2, athletic enforcer in there in the Kante, Guaye mould. It's slow and turgid. We definitely need a DM like that. We need Imbula to come good or we need another box to boxer. And then we need a real creative midfielder to complete. That midfield and any variant with what we have is workmanlike.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jan 29, 2017 22:24:33 GMT
Just before I send myself off to bed, in Chelsea's midfield of Kante and Matic, who provides creativity?..... having a solid base to work from works for the potential champions Bayern so I reckon it could be just fine for us as well
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 29, 2017 22:25:04 GMT
I'll copy and paste what I said an hour ago.. "Might lead to a slight change of system. Instead of having 1 behind the striker we might have 1 in front of the back 4 who basically doesn't move. I'd assume that would be Whelan with 2 midfielders in front of him. Any 2 from Allen, Afellay, Imbula and Adam.. which doesn't seem so bad to me. Leaving Arnie and Shaq to roam in and around the striker more without a typical "number 10" in that position potentially taking up space they could use" .. now Bayern, is that such a bad thing? Or does this #10 obsession mean we can't play in a different way? I'm hoping the gaffer isn't as rooted in a way of playing as you think he is. Hughes turned to that more solid 433 at Old Trafford, and we went on a good run. It's in the repertoire. A solid platform for a front three of Arnie Berahino Shaq perhaps might be just the ticket. Adam slotting passes through in a three man midfield. Steady back four, starts to look a really balanced team and something more akin to Hughes Blackburn and Fulham sides. Diouf Ramadan Bony etc off the bench, strong. I would be happy with that. You're forgetting the elephant in the room...... Crouch.
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Post by kustokie on Jan 29, 2017 22:28:45 GMT
It's not a black day, it's a shame as Bojan is a cracking lad and a joy to watch when on form. But if we go on an unbeaten run and end the season really well most Stoke fans won't bat an eyelid.... If it's an unbeaten run achieved by playing shit football, knocking the ball long to Crouch, Walters running up and down to little effect, you can fucking keep it! Taking a longer term view, this loan was absolutely necessary because it's the only way to find out whether Bojan still has what it takes or he's a shadow of his former self. They'll never find out while he's sitting on the bench.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 22:29:22 GMT
Hughes turned to that more solid 433 at Old Trafford, and we went on a good run. It's in the repertoire. A solid platform for a front three of Arnie Berahino Shaq perhaps might be just the ticket. Adam slotting passes through in a three man midfield. Steady back four, starts to look a really balanced team and something more akin to Hughes Blackburn and Fulham sides. Diouf Ramadan Bony etc off the bench, strong. I would be happy with that. You're forgetting the elephant in the room...... Crouch. I'd say he's more of a giraffe
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Post by Kjones9 on Jan 29, 2017 22:30:57 GMT
Hughes turned to that more solid 433 at Old Trafford, and we went on a good run. It's in the repertoire. A solid platform for a front three of Arnie Berahino Shaq perhaps might be just the ticket. Adam slotting passes through in a three man midfield. Steady back four, starts to look a really balanced team and something more akin to Hughes Blackburn and Fulham sides. Diouf Ramadan Bony etc off the bench, strong. I would be happy with that. You're forgetting the elephant in the room...... No one could forget you Bayern. You make sure of that.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 29, 2017 22:30:57 GMT
Just before I send myself off to bed, in Chelsea's midfield of Kante and Matic, who provides creativity?..... having a solid base to work from works for the potential champions Bayern so I reckon it could be just fine for us as well Erm that's two, not the 3 you're suggesting, totally different! You forget Hazard, Pedro, their two attacking full backs (we have 0) and then Willian or Fabregas. If we had 2 solid midfielders and then Bojan for instance it'd be great but that's not what you've suggested. All 3 are defensive player or Adam who's fucked after 45 minutes.
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Post by brinsleymaclagan on Jan 29, 2017 22:34:56 GMT
Hughes turned to that more solid 433 at Old Trafford, and we went on a good run. It's in the repertoire. A solid platform for a front three of Arnie Berahino Shaq perhaps might be just the ticket. Adam slotting passes through in a three man midfield. Steady back four, starts to look a really balanced team and something more akin to Hughes Blackburn and Fulham sides. Diouf Ramadan Bony etc off the bench, strong. I would be happy with that. You're forgetting the elephant in the room...... Crouch. Surely we can move on without Crouch?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 29, 2017 22:44:00 GMT
You're forgetting the elephant in the room...... Crouch. Surely we can move on without Crouch? I hope so too. But I suspect he's here to stay in the starting xi for this season. Berahino on the right.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jan 29, 2017 22:53:56 GMT
Hughes turned to that more solid 433 at Old Trafford, and we went on a good run. It's in the repertoire. A solid platform for a front three of Arnie Berahino Shaq perhaps might be just the ticket. Adam slotting passes through in a three man midfield. Steady back four, starts to look a really balanced team and something more akin to Hughes Blackburn and Fulham sides. Diouf Ramadan Bony etc off the bench, strong. I would be happy with that. You're forgetting the elephant in the room...... Crouch. You always have to try and spoil stuff. Surely there's an inevitability that Crouch will get his 100th and have a diminishing role as Berahino gets up to speed. That's how I see it panning out.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 29, 2017 22:57:31 GMT
You're forgetting the elephant in the room...... Crouch. You always have to try and spoil stuff. Surely there's an inevitability that Crouch will get his 100th and have a diminishing role as Berahino gets up to speed. That's how I see it panning out. The manager spoilt it by giving him a new deal! Do you think he's getting dropped any time soon? I think in the long run, Berahino is for up front. Short term I think he'll be eased in and then put on the right. As things stand he has to be thought of as first choice striker.
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Post by brinsleymaclagan on Jan 29, 2017 22:59:15 GMT
Surely we can move on without Crouch? I hope so too. But I suspect he's here to stay in the starting xi for this season. Berahino on the right. In that case, see you next season. Oh shit, I've got a season ticket!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 29, 2017 23:03:27 GMT
I hope so too. But I suspect he's here to stay in the starting xi for this season. Berahino on the right. In that case, see you next season. Oh shit, I've got a season ticket! For next season? I think you've been conned owd.....
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Post by kustokie on Jan 29, 2017 23:12:47 GMT
Just curious, exactly how many different players has Hughes tried on the right wing so far?
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Post by kustokie on Jan 29, 2017 23:14:29 GMT
You always have to try and spoil stuff. Surely there's an inevitability that Crouch will get his 100th and have a diminishing role as Berahino gets up to speed. That's how I see it panning out. The manager spoilt it by giving him a new deal! Do you think he's getting dropped any time soon? I think in the long run, Berahino is for up front. Short term I think he'll be eased in and then put on the right. As things stand he has to be thought of as first choice striker. Crouch isn't going to dropped any time soon. Him and Arnie are the only players that know how to stick the ball in the back of the net.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 29, 2017 23:15:28 GMT
Just curious, exactly how many different players has Hughes tried on the right wing so far? Walters Pennant Bojan Odemwingie Arnie Diouf Shaq Afellay Assaidi Moses Guidetti Has Johnson played there? And Adam has sort of played there once I think.
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Post by kustokie on Jan 29, 2017 23:19:03 GMT
Just curious, exactly how many different players has Hughes tried on the right wing so far? Walters Pennant Bojan Odemwingie Arnie Diouf Shaq Afellay Assaidi Moses Guidetti Has Johnson played there? And Adam has sort of played there once I think. Thanks. It's worse than I thought. The one player he hasn't tried on a regular basis is the one player that could actually rip the oppposing FB a new one is Arni. Am I missing something?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 29, 2017 23:26:35 GMT
Walters Pennant Bojan Odemwingie Arnie Diouf Shaq Afellay Assaidi Moses Guidetti Has Johnson played there? And Adam has sort of played there once I think. Thanks. It's worse than I thought. The one player he hasn't tried on a regular basis is the one player that could actually rip the oppposing FB a new one is Arni. Am I missing something? Arnie is the best left winger we have at the club by a mile! Oh and another one for the list-N'Goy!
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Post by brinsleymaclagan on Jan 29, 2017 23:27:55 GMT
The manager spoilt it by giving him a new deal! Do you think he's getting dropped any time soon? I think in the long run, Berahino is for up front. Short term I think he'll be eased in and then put on the right. As things stand he has to be thought of as first choice striker. Crouch isn't going to dropped any time soon. Him and Arnie are the only players that know how to stick the ball in the back of the net. Bojan knows how to stick the ball in the back of the net, but wasn't given a decent run in the team, unlike.......
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Post by BraveSirRobin on Jan 29, 2017 23:29:19 GMT
Ryan can't play right back ,pieters can't play centre half...you can't compare their ability to play more than one position to shaqiri's. Pieters has played at CB. That's a fair comparison. Ryan has played right back...still a fair comparison?
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Post by brinsleymaclagan on Jan 29, 2017 23:29:42 GMT
In that case, see you next season. Oh shit, I've got a season ticket! For next season? I think you've been conned owd..... No, for the rest of this season, which you say will see Crouch up front......oh never mind!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 29, 2017 23:32:13 GMT
Pieters has played at CB. That's a fair comparison. Ryan has played right back...still a fair comparison? He's played there once or twice. Pieters when he joined said he was a left back come centre back. So no it's not!
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Post by BraveSirRobin on Jan 29, 2017 23:34:59 GMT
Ryan has played right back...still a fair comparison? He's played there once or twice. Pieters when he joined said he was a left back come centre back. So no it's not! Remind me how often he's played there?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 29, 2017 23:38:16 GMT
He's played there once or twice. Pieters when he joined said he was a left back come centre back. So no it's not! Remind me how often he's played there? About the same as Shaq has played in the #10 role..... You wouldn't want either playing in the other role long term. It solves nothing. Arnie is best on the left, it moves him to the right. And then Sobhi is on the left. So you have two square pegs. Or you try one of the strikers there......square peg. Hughes loves a square peg though but doesn't get the shit his predecessor does. I don't get it.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Jan 29, 2017 23:58:33 GMT
You always have to try and spoil stuff. Surely there's an inevitability that Crouch will get his 100th and have a diminishing role as Berahino gets up to speed. That's how I see it panning out. The manager spoilt it by giving him a new deal! Do you think he's getting dropped any time soon? I think in the long run, Berahino is for up front. Short term I think he'll be eased in and then put on the right. As things stand he has to be thought of as first choice striker. Surely the deal is as much about locking some residual value in an asset, rather than letting a Premier League record winner walk away on a free this summer. {that would be negligent in a business sense.} No. Crouch with his goals, assists and defensive nous etc has earned himself game time, but it's still a squad game. Yes agree Berahino has been bought as a striker/goalscorer. Eased in where? and then put on the right? Yes there's been times when Diouf/Walters/Bojan and co have been given a berth on the flank. Apart from the fact that Hughes and co have different perceptions of wide forwards, it's not a massive issue imo, he didn't give Kenwynne or Bony or Crouch, the 'proper' strikers a go on the wing. Anyway at this moment that's guesswork from you. Hughes has said explicitly that Saido has been bought for up front. Yes true.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 0:03:48 GMT
The manager spoilt it by giving him a new deal! Do you think he's getting dropped any time soon? I think in the long run, Berahino is for up front. Short term I think he'll be eased in and then put on the right. As things stand he has to be thought of as first choice striker. Surely the deal is as much about locking some residual value in an asset, rather than letting a Premier League record winner walk away on a free this summer. {that would be negligent in a business sense.} No. Crouch with his goals, assists and defensive nous etc has earned himself game time, but it's still a squad game. Yes agree Berahino has been bought as a striker/goalscorer. Eased in where? and then put on the right? Yes there's been times when Diouf/Walters/Bojan and co have been given a berth on the flank. Apart from the fact that Hughes and co have different perceptions of wide forwards, it's not a massive issue imo, he didn't give Kenwynne or Bony or Crouch, the 'proper' strikers a go on the wing. Anyway at this moment that's guesswork from you. Hughes has said explicitly that Saido has been bought for up front. Yes true. Saido is a pacy forward that can dribble. Even Hughes wouldn't be silly enough to stick slow, tall target men like Ken, Crouch or Bony on the wing. I think hell be a winger for a few cameo sub appearances. Then when Crouch's run ends he'll be sent back to the bench for Berahino.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 30, 2017 0:04:25 GMT
The manager spoilt it by giving him a new deal! Do you think he's getting dropped any time soon? I think in the long run, Berahino is for up front. Short term I think he'll be eased in and then put on the right. As things stand he has to be thought of as first choice striker. Surely the deal is as much about locking some residual value in an asset, rather than letting a Premier League record winner walk away on a free this summer. {that would be negligent in a business sense.} Yes agree Berahino has been bought as a striker/goalscorer. Eased in where? and then put on the right? Yes there's been times when Diouf/Walters/Bojan and co have been given a berth on the flank. Apart from the fact that Hughes and co have different perceptions of wide forwards, it's not a massive issue imo, he didn't give Kenwynne or Bony or Crouch, the 'proper' strikers a go on the wing. Anyway at this moment that's guesswork from you. Hughes has said explicitly that Saido has been bought for up front. Yes true. That sounds highly unlikely to me, he was signed because the manager rates him. Eased in from the bench. Hughes has said that but it wasn't explicitly, there was also some fluff about that it might not be the case in the short but long term that's where he sees him. He won't drop Crouch in the next 5 games.
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Post by kustokie on Jan 30, 2017 0:06:22 GMT
Crouch isn't going to dropped any time soon. Him and Arnie are the only players that know how to stick the ball in the back of the net. Bojan knows how to stick the ball in the back of the net, but wasn't given a decent run in the team, unlike....... OK, we get it. Bojan plays for Mainz. Move on.
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