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Post by milky on Sept 13, 2016 20:03:00 GMT
Why do the top clubs keep signing foreign players and have done for years ? I assume it's because they are better players and represent better value.Some take longer to adapt than others.See Bergkamp,Henry and Ozill to name just three. Some work out brilliantly,others bomb. If Imbula doesn't crack it he won't be the first or indeed last "expensive flop "import. I hate to state the obvious but we are not a top club, you seem to have a good knowledge of Arsenal players though Either that or I've heard of world class football players... The point being..it's too early ,imo,to write off a player who hasn't yet played 6 months worth of footie when better players than him have taken longer to adapt to this league.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Sept 13, 2016 20:22:22 GMT
Honest question: Is Imbula really that bad or is Hughes's failure to get a Whelan upgrade as big a problem? What happened to that Badu link? We looked at Saivet last season as well. Both are decent and younger/quicker than Glenn. We should be looking 3-4 years ahead. As soon as I heard Whelan had got the contract extension it was inevitable he'd be in every week! This despite Chief, Spence and others saying that a new CDM was needed. It's happened with Crouch and Walters before;they should have been replaced too, like Bayern said. I take on board valid criticisms of Imbula, but I think he's something of a scapegoat for another piss poor window in terms of buying players to fit your style by the management. Valid stuff Trick. I think Phil Jones even on loan would have been a great addition and from what I understand {unless it was bullshit} he visited several times and signs were positive, not sure what happened. Him and either Allen or Imbula {or both} would look a better balance. But shit happens, perhaps Mourinho got menopausul on us, last minute. Nevertheless maybe there is loads of work going on behind the scenes to get Allen and Imbula working together, obviously you can't replicate the game experience but you'd hope there are rehearsals going on, before just chucking them in. If Imbula picked his workrate up {for the 90} and Allen calmed down a bit, they'd be the perfect pairing. Like a Whelan and Zonz on speed. There's time. Maybe I'm a tad sizeist but I have trepidation about Whelan, Allen, Bojan midfield through the centre, there's plenty of big midfield lumps who'd brush them aside, I fear. Imbula at the very least has 'presence' in his favour. As for your criticism of the transfer dealings. I'm not so sure. We aren't privvy to an overall plan {if there is one} nor to the extent of the targets, the difficulty of the deals etc. Allen and Indi just happened, it seemed, but obviously not. I'm keeping at the back of my mind several things relating to our overall direction, culled from the things Sir Peter has said in the press. 1. Self Sufficiency 2. An expectation that a couple of Academy lads will make the squad. 3. Value. I would have thought these would have been in the brief that Hughes & co signed up to. We've tended to spend when no one else is {smashed the window last xmas spending more than everyone else combined}, only Allen this window really, when a billion was spent in total. Rightly or wrongly maybe this is our way of getting value in the market. I don't think anyone can be too critical about the Summer outs - players who divided opinion, and I can't knock a cautious 'suck it and see' approach with the loans in. {We're, unavoidably carrying Afellay, Ireland, Jos and Wolf {and Jack and Shaq} on the wages to some extent. We can't just sack them. Needs to be a balance of new additions, we've gained top rate defender, midfielder and striker in the window. It's difficult to cover for injuries, especially short term ones. I see 2017, summer window as the time when the old guard can drift off into the sunset with our blessings to be replaced {fingers crossed} by talent from the youth: Whelan, Crouch, Cameron, Walters become Lecygne, Taylor, Waring, N'goy perhaps. Perhaps my glass is too full, but I don't think I'm being delusional. I don't think it's all the unmitigated disaster some would paint it. There's a sprinkling of high expectations {the 'Leicester' Syndrome} and short termism, and things get magnified on here. I'm happy enough to think about the players we have got, players that would have been unthinkable 5 years ago, obviously not perfect, but I'm prepared to cool me boots and see what unfolds, hold on for the ride. Undoubtedly there is room for improvement, I would have gone balls out to swap SJW for Redmond last xmas, but perhaps Sobhi will be that dude. It's not perfect, but then again you know what my answer would be.
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Post by numpty40 on Sept 13, 2016 20:28:19 GMT
Hudson/Greenhoff and Mahoney that's class.Kav was better than Imbula. Ebola is better than Imbula. At least you get a few runs out of Ebola.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 13, 2016 20:45:54 GMT
Honest question: Is Imbula really that bad or is Hughes's failure to get a Whelan upgrade as big a problem? What happened to that Badu link? We looked at Saivet last season as well. Both are decent and younger/quicker than Glenn. We should be looking 3-4 years ahead. As soon as I heard Whelan had got the contract extension it was inevitable he'd be in every week! This despite Chief, Spence and others saying that a new CDM was needed. It's happened with Crouch and Walters before;they should have been replaced too, like Bayern said. I take on board valid criticisms of Imbula, but I think he's something of a scapegoat for another piss poor window in terms of buying players to fit your style by the management. Valid stuff Trick. I think Phil Jones even on loan would have been a great addition and from what I understand {unless it was bullshit} he visited several times and signs were positive, not sure what happened. Him and either Allen or Imbula {or both} would look a better balance. But shit happens, perhaps Mourinho got menopausul on us, last minute. Nevertheless maybe there is loads of work going on behind the scenes to get Allen and Imbula working together, obviously you can't replicate the game experience but you'd hope there are rehearsals going on, before just chucking them in. If Imbula picked his workrate up {for the 90} and Allen calmed down a bit, they'd be the perfect pairing. Like a Whelan and Zonz on speed. There's time. Maybe I'm a tad sizeist but I have trepidation about Whelan, Allen, Bojan midfield through the centre, there's plenty of big midfield lumps who'd brush them aside, I fear. Imbula at the very least has 'presence' in his favour. As for your criticism of the transfer dealings. I'm not so sure. We aren't privvy to an overall plan {if there is one} nor to the extent of the targets, the difficulty of the deals etc. Allen and Indi just happened, it seemed, but obviously not. I'm keeping at the back of my mind several things relating to our overall direction, culled from the things Sir Peter has said in the press. 1. Self Sufficiency 2. An expectation that a couple of Academy lads will make the squad. 3. Value. I would have thought these would have been in the brief that Hughes & co signed up to. We've tended to spend when no one else is {smashed the window last xmas spending more than anyone else}, only Allen this window really, when a billion was spent. Rightly or wrongly maybe this is our way of getting value in the market. I don't think anyone can be too critical about the Summer outs - players who divided opinion, and I can't knock a cautious 'suck it and see' approach with the loans in. {We're, unavoidably carrying Afellay, Ireland, Jos and Wolf {and Jack and Shaq} on the wages to some extent. We can't just sack them. Needs to be a balance of new additions, we've gained top rate defender, midfielder and striker in the window. It's difficult to cover for injuries, especially long term ones. I see 2017, summer window as the time when the old guard can drift off into the sunset with our blessings to be replaced {fingers crossed} by talent from the youth: Whelan, Crouch, Cameron, Walters become Lecygne, Taylor, Waring, N'goy perhaps. Perhaps my glass is too full, but I don't think I'm being delusional. I don't think it's all the unmitigated disaster some would paint it. There's a sprinkling of high expectations {the 'Leicester' Syndrome} and short termism, and things get magnified on here. I'm happy enough to think about the players we have got, players that would have been unthinkable 5 years ago, obviously not perfect, but I'm prepared to cool me boots and see what unfolds, hold on for the ride. Undoubtedly there is room for improvement, I would have gone balls out to swap SJW for Redmond last xmas, but perhaps Sobhi will be that dude. It's not perfect, but then again you know what my answer would be. Good, positive stuff. It might still happen, Freeex!!
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Post by mozzer on Sept 13, 2016 21:36:58 GMT
Hughes wont lose his job because of Imbula, Hughes will lose his job because he has made rudimentary mistakes that if not put right very quickly will lead to a spiral of fuck off doom, his signings in the whole have been less than spectacular and his cover for certain positions is non existent, it will not be very long before we are in a position at the bottom of the league where a much needed win does fuck all for your confidence because your win moves you no where due to the points above you, Imbula was class for the first 20 mins but by fuck the next 70 were just awful along with most of the team........and it is not just confined to just this season either, is Given really our best choice keeper behind Butland, do the full backs know what is expected of them in this formation and do they realise that tactically they are an important piece of the defensive jigsaw, has the midfield ever trained together, do they even know each others names, have they been given instructions of what to do for 90 mins and realise that they may just be needed to help to cover our Centre halves now and again, do the wide men realise they should be taking on the opposition full backs and protecting our own, do the forwards realise its there job to provide goals or assists, I hope to god he can turn it around and quick because on the whole I have really enjoyed Hughes time at Stoke but I can not take much more of this bullshit centre of the park tippy tappy go no where football, our sudden desire to throw away our need to keep a clean sheet, the lack of creativity and ideas on any set pieces, the continual high score drubbings and a complete lack of goal mouth action, Blackburn Rovers put four past us without breaking sweat in the FA cup and even then the bullshit excuses were trotted out, we made hard work of Luton & Doncaster again in the cup competitions with the inability to put them to the sword....other than 3mt Peters contribution of course, Burton put 3 past us and yet again the message board was littered with bullshit excuses about injuries & timings of pre season etc etc, For fucks sake don't defend them with blind loyalty Burton were playing in the 3rd division at the end of last season.
So what we now waiting for to give us this elusive kick start to the season and drive us up the league
Glenn Johnson to be fit........A player that half of this message board did not want and who is in the twighlight of his career and who regularly get slated on here when he does play, inspiring! Butland to be fit..............A player that ultimately just could change our fortunes if we can get him back to his best very soon before its too late, lets not get all blinkered as Jack was between the sticks when we conceded 3 goals for 3 games back end of Feb start of March. Affely to be fit................I hope so but will a player of his age come back as strong and if so when, not holding my breath on this one
Other than Butland, I can not see anything that will change us bar training field tactics or.........fresh ideas!! I hope not but the warning signs are well and truly there for all to see and have been so for a good 8 months, this is not a new problem that needs fixing Hughes and his team have had enough time before the crowd started to turn so fingers crossed.
Onwards & upwards and in Hughes we trust......Just for now mind!
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Post by crapslinger on Sept 13, 2016 21:51:46 GMT
Hughes wont lose his job because of Imbula, Hughes will lose his job because he has made rudimentary mistakes that if not put right very quickly will lead to a spiral of fuck off doom, his signings in the whole have been less than spectacular and his cover for certain positions is non existent, it will not be very long before we are in a position at the bottom of the league where a much needed win does fuck all for your confidence because your win moves you no where due to the points above you, Imbula was class for the first 20 mins but by fuck the next 70 were just awful along with most of the team........and it is not just confined to just this season either, is Given really our best choice keeper behind Butland, do the full backs know what is expected of them in this formation and do they realise that tactically they are an important piece of the defensive jigsaw, has the midfield ever trained together, do they even know each others names, have they been given instructions of what to do for 90 mins and realise that they may just be needed to help to cover our Centre halves now and again, do the wide men realise they should be taking on the opposition full backs and protecting our own, do the forwards realise its there job to provide goals or assists, I hope to god he can turn it around and quick because on the whole I have really enjoyed Hughes time at Stoke but I can not take much more of this bullshit centre of the park tippy tappy go no where football, our sudden desire to throw away our need to keep a clean sheet, the lack of creativity and ideas on any set pieces, the continual high score drubbings and a complete lack of goal mouth action, Blackburn Rovers put four past us without breaking sweat in the FA cup and even then the bullshit excuses were trotted out, we made hard work of Luton & Doncaster again in the cup competitions with the inability to put them to the sword....other than 3mt Peters contribution of course, Burton put 3 past us and yet again the message board was littered with bullshit excuses about injuries & timings of pre season etc etc, For fucks sake don't defend them with blind loyalty Burton were playing in the 3rd division at the end of last season. So what we now waiting for to give us this elusive kick start to the season and drive us up the league Glenn Johnson to be fit........A player that half of this message board did not want and who is in the twighlight of his career and who regularly get slated on here when he does play, inspiring! Butland to be fit..............A player that ultimately just could change our fortunes if we can get him back to his best very soon before its too late, lets not get all blinkered as Jack was between the sticks when we conceded 3 goals for 3 games back end of Feb start of March. Affely to be fit................I hope so but will a player of his age come back as strong and if so when, not holding my breath on this one Other than Butland, I can not see anything that will change us bar training field tactics or.........fresh ideas!! I hope not but the warning signs are well and truly there for all to see and have been so for a good 8 months, this is not a new problem that needs fixing Hughes and his team have had enough time before the crowd started to turn so fingers crossed. Onwards & upwards and in Hughes we trust......Just for now mind! Pretty much spot on Mozzer ! apart from the last bit duck he has had enough time and opportunity to sort out these issues he has failed, reminds me of Danisco Pack demise self inflicted by the management shame.
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Post by sportsman on Sept 13, 2016 22:35:29 GMT
No need for you to abuse me .who the hell do you think you are? Go away and grow up Bloody hell.
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Post by Olgrligm on Sept 13, 2016 22:40:14 GMT
Suppose you are Mark Hughes. This January you need to convince the board to buy, at great expense, a first choice right back and left back, along with another backup centre back. How do you do that while your £18,000,000 record signing is struggling, and your £31,500,000 midfield trio can't click to save their lives?
The taps were turned off pretty quickly on Pulis after the silly deal for Crouch and Palacios.
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Post by Gods on Sept 13, 2016 22:48:02 GMT
Results, it's all about results, if the results are good he can screw up as many big money transfers as he likes!
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Post by anisober on Sept 13, 2016 22:58:38 GMT
The hierarchy are worried about Imbula as he is a very, very quiet person and is struggling, not only with the language, but his inward personality (shy) ... he will come good , not only from my point of view but people at our club....
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Post by generationex on Sept 13, 2016 23:01:16 GMT
Don't think we can call Crouch a silly deal. He's played more games for us than any club.
One poor signing in Palacios didn't sink Pulis. Several poor plus 6 mil signings might sink Hughes.
3 top nine finishes doesn't give you much leeway, sorry Chief - it hardly sets the pulse racing - particularly as in every one of those seasons we've had a sizeable spell in the bottom 3.
Number one aim is always Don't Go Down.
It's 40 points as - ahem - someone once said...
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Post by turtlefox on Sept 13, 2016 23:11:15 GMT
Yes, it highlights to the board, in the same way Tuncay did with Pulis, that he may not know how to get the best out of his better players, which asks the question, why did you buy them in the first place. Personally, I don't think Imbula has been a flop. He's shown he can do it. Just hasn't been consistant yet.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 13, 2016 23:28:37 GMT
Don't think we can call Crouch a silly deal. He's played more games for us than any club. One poor signing in Palacios didn't sink Pulis. Several poor plus 6 mil signings might sink Hughes. 3 top nine finishes doesn't give you much leeway, sorry Chief - it hardly sets the pulse racing - particularly as in every one of those seasons we've had a sizeable spell in the bottom 3. Number one aim is always Don't Go Down. It's 40 points as - ahem - someone once said... So 40 points sets the pulse racing, but the club's best league finishes for 40 years didn't? How long did our 'sizeable spell' in the bottom three last in his first two seasons? General poor performance in the transfer market played a significant part in downing Pulis and the outlay for Crouch, 12 months after breaking our transfer record for Jones and not in all honesty a player we really needed, and Palacios was a factor in that. Coates queried it publicly at the time.
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Sept 13, 2016 23:35:25 GMT
Hughes wont lose his job because of Imbula, Hughes will lose his job because he has made rudimentary mistakes that if not put right very quickly will lead to a spiral of fuck off doom, his signings in the whole have been less than spectacular and his cover for certain positions is non existent, it will not be very long before we are in a position at the bottom of the league where a much needed win does fuck all for your confidence because your win moves you no where due to the points above you, Imbula was class for the first 20 mins but by fuck the next 70 were just awful along with most of the team........and it is not just confined to just this season either, is Given really our best choice keeper behind Butland, do the full backs know what is expected of them in this formation and do they realise that tactically they are an important piece of the defensive jigsaw, has the midfield ever trained together, do they even know each others names, have they been given instructions of what to do for 90 mins and realise that they may just be needed to help to cover our Centre halves now and again, do the wide men realise they should be taking on the opposition full backs and protecting our own, do the forwards realise its there job to provide goals or assists, I hope to god he can turn it around and quick because on the whole I have really enjoyed Hughes time at Stoke but I can not take much more of this bullshit centre of the park tippy tappy go no where football, our sudden desire to throw away our need to keep a clean sheet, the lack of creativity and ideas on any set pieces, the continual high score drubbings and a complete lack of goal mouth action, Blackburn Rovers put four past us without breaking sweat in the FA cup and even then the bullshit excuses were trotted out, we made hard work of Luton & Doncaster again in the cup competitions with the inability to put them to the sword....other than 3mt Peters contribution of course, Burton put 3 past us and yet again the message board was littered with bullshit excuses about injuries & timings of pre season etc etc, For fucks sake don't defend them with blind loyalty Burton were playing in the 3rd division at the end of last season. So what we now waiting for to give us this elusive kick start to the season and drive us up the league Glenn Johnson to be fit........A player that half of this message board did not want and who is in the twighlight of his career and who regularly get slated on here when he does play, inspiring! Butland to be fit..............A player that ultimately just could change our fortunes if we can get him back to his best very soon before its too late, lets not get all blinkered as Jack was between the sticks when we conceded 3 goals for 3 games back end of Feb start of March. Affely to be fit................I hope so but will a player of his age come back as strong and if so when, not holding my breath on this one Other than Butland, I can not see anything that will change us bar training field tactics or.........fresh ideas!! I hope not but the warning signs are well and truly there for all to see and have been so for a good 8 months, this is not a new problem that needs fixing Hughes and his team have had enough time before the crowd started to turn so fingers crossed. Onwards & upwards and in Hughes we trust......Just for now mind! Good stuff. I reckon you've got the other side of my coin, but it seems we've reached the same conclusion.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 13, 2016 23:56:31 GMT
No.
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 14, 2016 0:02:37 GMT
I think Imbula and Shaqiri have been a combined 30 million disaster Shaq needs to be played in the middle.
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Post by starkiller on Sept 14, 2016 4:52:21 GMT
Im that negative that i will be going palace on sunday will you? Can you honestly say that those 2 signings have worked out I have to say that neither fill me with excitement, and their cost adds to further disillusionment with the modern game. How can so much money be swilling around in a sport that becomes duller in general by the season?
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Post by pottarius on Sept 14, 2016 5:05:43 GMT
The hierarchy are worried about Imbula as he is a very, very quiet person and is struggling, not only with the language, but his inward personality (shy) ... he will come good , not only from my point of view but people at our club.... Not sure how you know this unless your one of new ITK but what you say does seem to ring true Maybe we need send Adam, Whelan and Allen to learn a bit of the old Francais to help him along although broken French with a Scottish, Irish or Welsh accent may not be perfect either!
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Sept 14, 2016 5:30:04 GMT
The hierarchy are worried about Imbula as he is a very, very quiet person and is struggling, not only with the language, but his inward personality (shy) ... he will come good , not only from my point of view but people at our club.... Not sure how you know this unless your one of new ITK but what you say does seem to ring true Maybe we need send Adam, Whelan and Allen to learn a bit of the old Francais to help him along although broken French with a Scottish, Irish or Welsh accent may not be perfect either! I'd like to see fluency in Esperanto as a pre-condition of signing for us. Make it our international language of football. "Jes, mi parolas Esperanton tre bone."
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Post by milky on Sept 14, 2016 6:15:30 GMT
Don't think we can call Crouch a silly deal. He's played more games for us than any club. One poor signing in Palacios didn't sink Pulis. Several poor plus 6 mil signings might sink Hughes. 3 top nine finishes doesn't give you much leeway, sorry Chief - it hardly sets the pulse racing - particularly as in every one of those seasons we've had a sizeable spell in the bottom 3. Number one aim is always Don't Go Down. It's 40 points as - ahem - someone once said... Any chance of pointing us in the direction of these league tables where we have spent a sizeable spell in the bottom 3 in each of the last 3 seasons? You can't..because they don't exist. More history rewriting/made up shit.
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Post by Roy Cropper on Sept 14, 2016 6:29:54 GMT
The treatment of Imbula is scarily similar to N'Zonzi who was "shit", "slow" and "lazy" to name but a few things.
I wonder if Imbula will go on to win a European trophy and prove these idiots wrong as well. Embarrasing.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 14, 2016 7:21:49 GMT
Don't think we can call Crouch a silly deal. He's played more games for us than any club. One poor signing in Palacios didn't sink Pulis. Several poor plus 6 mil signings might sink Hughes. 3 top nine finishes doesn't give you much leeway, sorry Chief - it hardly sets the pulse racing - particularly as in every one of those seasons we've had a sizeable spell in the bottom 3. Number one aim is always Don't Go Down. It's 40 points as - ahem - someone once said... 3 top 9 finishes never looking like going down doesn't give you much leeway but 40 points and not going down does... Oatcake logic right there. Like I say, breathtaking level of fucktardery on this board.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 14, 2016 7:31:53 GMT
Did Cartwright and the best Goddamn recruitment team in the business not mention to Hughes that Imbula finds defending and tracking opposing players about as attractive as eating your dinner in a chemical toilet at Glastonbury on the Sunday night.
Might have helped if that had come out in the scouting. If any took place of course.
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Post by superheroantonius on Sept 14, 2016 9:10:46 GMT
He wears gloves and plays with his flip flops on ... it has to be a possibility !
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Post by superheroantonius on Sept 14, 2016 9:16:01 GMT
Technically the minimum is, a midfielder should be able to turn away from the trouble, and move the ball quickly and accurately.
What Imbula does, is try and swap the ball to his good foot , so he can pass it.
Unless I am missing something , that's not the same thing ?
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Post by Northy on Sept 14, 2016 10:44:45 GMT
I've heard everything now on here. Imbula is right down on our list of problems. He won't cost Hughes his job, neither will Shaqiri, nor will Whelan, neither will Arnie's contract. The only thing that will cost Hughes his job is our inability to defend like a premier league side Which Imbula cannot do at the moment
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Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on Sept 15, 2016 8:35:45 GMT
I blame.....Marriage. Since Imbula and Pieters decided to get married they have both been...Wank. (something they don't have to do so much now).
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Sept 15, 2016 8:48:13 GMT
What a fucking ridiculous thread title. Hardly Imbula's fault. Firstly there was a guy who signed him. Secondly there is a guy who chooses to play him. Thirdly there is a guy who chooses to play him in a system that is completely fucked to the point it isn't really a system at all but a bunch of players running around in a disorganised fashion.
Our shit run of form is entirely down to Hughes and after 3 years he still has no idea what is best 11 is. He needs to sort it out before November or he's gone I suspect. He deserves until November.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Sept 15, 2016 9:12:04 GMT
I blame.....Marriage. Since Imbula and Pieters decided to get married they have both been...Wank. (something they don't have to do so much now). I didn't even know they were seeing each other.
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Post by trickydicky73 on Sept 15, 2016 9:54:26 GMT
What a fucking ridiculous thread title. Hardly Imbula's fault. Firstly there was a guy who signed him. Secondly there is a guy who chooses to play him. Thirdly there is a guy who chooses to play him in a system that is completely fucked to the point it isn't really a system at all but a bunch of players running around in a disorganised fashion. Our shit run of form is entirely down to Hughes and after 3 years he still has no idea what is best 11 is. He needs to sort it out before November or he's gone I suspect. He deserves until November. I agree. It's ridiculous to blame one player for the shambles we have become. Out of interest, what IS our best 11, Rossi?
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