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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Dec 1, 2016 12:54:35 GMT
It seems football is pretty much black and white in your world. Do you expect a club like Stoke to win every match against "poor teams " (your words )like Bournemouth during a 38 game long season? And where is the complacency you speak of ??Hughes has alluded time and time again that we are looking to improve. It's not quite as simple to expect each season to be better than the one before. Doesn't always work that way for various reasons.See Chelsea last season . There's still plenty to improve I'll give you that but to expect us to go marauding on now without any blips is totally unrealistic. Of course we'll have blips. But what we saw at the start of this season was not a 'blip', it was nearly half a season's worth of complete shite. Hughes certainly won;t be complacent, but it appears some of his players are, or certainly were. For some reason we didn't bother showing up against Bournemouth. Ordinarily, a bad day isn't a concern, but it was worryingly similar to the bad day after day after day at the start of the season. The reyurn to form hadn't been long enough or sustained enough at that point, and arguably still hasn't been. We've beaten some crap teams, that's great, but we need to be better than that and we'll soon find out if that's the case. In short, the team feels extremely fragile, like one slight issue such as an injury or someone being played out of position means everyone gives up and doesn't even bother. If I didn't know better it comes across like they're sulking sometimes. Things are still not right at the club. This is a very poor season so far. It doesn't make me any less of a fan for saying it. I'm not going to pretend everything is sweetness and light when it is very obviously not. Now, obviously, if we turn The Arse over I will almost certainly feel differently and this will be a wonderful season that just had a handful of bad games at the beginning. Please don't take this the wrong way but I think you've chosen the wrong team to support mate.
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Post by butlerstbob on Dec 1, 2016 13:41:59 GMT
It seems football is pretty much black and white in your world. Do you expect a club like Stoke to win every match against "poor teams " (your words )like Bournemouth during a 38 game long season? And where is the complacency you speak of ??Hughes has alluded time and time again that we are looking to improve. It's not quite as simple to expect each season to be better than the one before. Doesn't always work that way for various reasons.See Chelsea last season . There's still plenty to improve I'll give you that but to expect us to go marauding on now without any blips is totally unrealistic. Of course we'll have blips. But what we saw at the start of this season was not a 'blip', it was nearly half a season's worth of complete shite. Hughes certainly won;t be complacent, but it appears some of his players are, or certainly were. For some reason we didn't bother showing up against Bournemouth. Ordinarily, a bad day isn't a concern, but it was worryingly similar to the bad day after day after day at the start of the season. The reyurn to form hadn't been long enough or sustained enough at that point, and arguably still hasn't been. We've beaten some crap teams, that's great, but we need to be better than that and we'll soon find out if that's the case. In short, the team feels extremely fragile, like one slight issue such as an injury or someone being played out of position means everyone gives up and doesn't even bother. If I didn't know better it comes across like they're sulking sometimes.
Things are still not right at the club. This is a very poor season so far. It doesn't make me any less of a fan for saying it. I'm not going to pretend everything is sweetness and light when it is very obviously not. Now, obviously, if we turn The Arse over I will almost certainly feel differently and this will be a wonderful season that just had a handful of bad games at the beginning. Yes you are right, heaven forbid we have to go to a place like erm erm Watford who sit 8th on 18 points and we struggle to pick a side with a right back, centre half, two midfielders missing amongst others and we WIN!
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Post by alster on Dec 1, 2016 14:43:11 GMT
Of course we'll have blips. But what we saw at the start of this season was not a 'blip', it was nearly half a season's worth of complete shite. Hughes certainly won;t be complacent, but it appears some of his players are, or certainly were. For some reason we didn't bother showing up against Bournemouth. Ordinarily, a bad day isn't a concern, but it was worryingly similar to the bad day after day after day at the start of the season. The reyurn to form hadn't been long enough or sustained enough at that point, and arguably still hasn't been. We've beaten some crap teams, that's great, but we need to be better than that and we'll soon find out if that's the case. In short, the team feels extremely fragile, like one slight issue such as an injury or someone being played out of position means everyone gives up and doesn't even bother. If I didn't know better it comes across like they're sulking sometimes.
Things are still not right at the club. This is a very poor season so far. It doesn't make me any less of a fan for saying it. I'm not going to pretend everything is sweetness and light when it is very obviously not. Now, obviously, if we turn The Arse over I will almost certainly feel differently and this will be a wonderful season that just had a handful of bad games at the beginning. Yes you are right, heaven forbid we have to go to a place like erm erm Watford who sit 8th on 18 points and we struggle to pick a side with a right back, centre half, two midfielders missing amongst others and we WIN! I really don't understand how an individual result whoever it may be against can influence someones entire opinion. regardless of results we're someway below our potential, Hughes has had us playing much better than we currently are. It remains to be seen whether he can get performances to peak again I think we're probably about 3/4 first teamers away from being able to kick on again in terms of performance and the type of football we're able to play CDM, mobile pacey skillfull forward, pace and improved delivery from the full back/wing back positions if we could sort this and maybe bring in a few younger squad players with potential to improve I think we could move to becoming a more exciting free scoring side.
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Post by butlerstbob on Dec 1, 2016 15:02:45 GMT
Yes you are right, heaven forbid we have to go to a place like erm erm Watford who sit 8th on 18 points and we struggle to pick a side with a right back, centre half, two midfielders missing amongst others and we WIN! I really don't understand how an individual result whoever it may be against can influence someones entire opinion. regardless of results we're someway below our potential, Hughes has had us playing much better than we currently are. It remains to be seen whether he can get performances to peak again I think we're probably about 3/4 first teamers away from being able to kick on again in terms of performance and the type of football we're able to play CDM, mobile pacey skillfull forward, pace and improved delivery from the full back/wing back positions if we could sort this and maybe bring in a few younger squad players with potential to improve I think we could move to becoming a more exciting free scoring side. Where have I said an individual result can influence someones opinion? I was merely picking up on this point "In short, the team feels extremely fragile, like one slight issue such as an injury or someone being played out of position means everyone gives up and doesn't even bother. If I didn't know better it comes across like they're sulking sometimes."
We have had some real bad luck with injuries over the last 12 months and yet still finished in a respectable position no? so that was what I was getting at!
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Post by alster on Dec 1, 2016 15:10:58 GMT
I really don't understand how an individual result whoever it may be against can influence someones entire opinion. regardless of results we're someway below our potential, Hughes has had us playing much better than we currently are. It remains to be seen whether he can get performances to peak again I think we're probably about 3/4 first teamers away from being able to kick on again in terms of performance and the type of football we're able to play CDM, mobile pacey skillfull forward, pace and improved delivery from the full back/wing back positions if we could sort this and maybe bring in a few younger squad players with potential to improve I think we could move to becoming a more exciting free scoring side. Where have I said an individual result can influence someones opinion? I was merely picking up on this point "In short, the team feels extremely fragile, like one slight issue such as an injury or someone being played out of position means everyone gives up and doesn't even bother. If I didn't know better it comes across like they're sulking sometimes."
We have had some real bad luck with injuries over the last 12 months and yet still finished in a respectable position no? so that was what I was getting at!
I know what you mean I was on about the post you quoted saying if we won one game against Arsenal it would be a fantastic season. That sort of thinking completely baffles me, we beat Man Utd in our relegation season by that definition that was a fantastic season too.
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Post by butlerstbob on Dec 1, 2016 15:14:32 GMT
Where have I said an individual result can influence someones opinion? I was merely picking up on this point "In short, the team feels extremely fragile, like one slight issue such as an injury or someone being played out of position means everyone gives up and doesn't even bother. If I didn't know better it comes across like they're sulking sometimes."
We have had some real bad luck with injuries over the last 12 months and yet still finished in a respectable position no? so that was what I was getting at!
I know what you mean I was on about the post you quoted saying if we won one game against Arsenal it would be a fantastic season. That sort of thinking completely baffles me, we beat Man Utd in our relegation season by that definition that was a fantastic season too. You obviously don't know what I mean because nowhere have I mentioned or referred to Arsenal! read my post again!
Sorry Alster I misread your post and thought you were aiming at me! please accept my apology!
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Post by Scrotnig on Dec 1, 2016 21:48:37 GMT
Of course we'll have blips. But what we saw at the start of this season was not a 'blip', it was nearly half a season's worth of complete shite. Hughes certainly won;t be complacent, but it appears some of his players are, or certainly were. For some reason we didn't bother showing up against Bournemouth. Ordinarily, a bad day isn't a concern, but it was worryingly similar to the bad day after day after day at the start of the season. The reyurn to form hadn't been long enough or sustained enough at that point, and arguably still hasn't been. We've beaten some crap teams, that's great, but we need to be better than that and we'll soon find out if that's the case. In short, the team feels extremely fragile, like one slight issue such as an injury or someone being played out of position means everyone gives up and doesn't even bother. If I didn't know better it comes across like they're sulking sometimes. Things are still not right at the club. This is a very poor season so far. It doesn't make me any less of a fan for saying it. I'm not going to pretend everything is sweetness and light when it is very obviously not. Now, obviously, if we turn The Arse over I will almost certainly feel differently and this will be a wonderful season that just had a handful of bad games at the beginning. So..in short..a defeat to a team you consider poor and it's a crisis.. Yet a win against arsenal and it's suddenly become a wonderful season.. Like I sad...black and white.. The Arsenal comment was a bit facetious.... There is no crisis. However, all is not well and it needs sorting. Is that so bad? We have a great manager with the capabilities and attitude to sort it, and we have a great chairman who will support him.
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Post by Scrotnig on Dec 1, 2016 21:50:26 GMT
It was me that made the Arsenal comment. It was intended as a bit of a jokey, facetious comment. Sorry about that. I like to try and lighten the mood at times.
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Post by superheroantonius on Dec 2, 2016 15:14:55 GMT
Imo Again he's started the season badly and again he's got away with it He has massive knowledge of the game, but he needs to get the team to hit the ground running in august not October, next year. It's nothing personal against him,it's not an agenda, but the season really does start in august What are your expectations for the season then in terms of points and finishing position. if he finishes top half this season, he has done well :-) Regarding next season , he needs to get the side up and running in august ... that's what he is there to do
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Post by kustokie on Dec 2, 2016 15:35:44 GMT
What are your expectations for the season then in terms of points and finishing position. if he finishes top half this season, he has done well :-) Regarding next season , he needs to get the side up and running in august ... that's what he is there to do Agreed, which means he should be planning for it now. All successful business should have a short-term, medium-term and long-term plans, which are updated continually. The problem is the business cycle time in professional football is very short because the period when the key difference makers (the players) are at their peak is also very short and can be ended or derailed very suddenly. That period is maybe 5-7 years (longer in some cases, shorter in others) and is exacerbated by a high employee turnover rate, which make planning very difficukt. That's why Hughes needs all the help he can get from the experts on the Oatcake (such as Bayern, Benji, Scrotnig, Alster etc.) which I am sure he reads every day!
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Post by milky on Dec 2, 2016 15:36:49 GMT
What are your expectations for the season then in terms of points and finishing position. if he finishes top half this season, he has done well :-) Regarding next season , he needs to get the side up and running in august ... that's what he is there to do Whilst I admit the habitual poor starts are annoying I think that ,if Hughes hangs around,it's something we are just going to have to tolerate..a trade off if you like... There is absolutely no guarantee..or evidence..that if we started like a train we would go marauding on without having a bad run of maybe 8-10 games at some point.Though yes,it's the would be nice to put that theory to the test 😊
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Post by kustokie on Dec 2, 2016 20:52:12 GMT
if he finishes top half this season, he has done well :-) Regarding next season , he needs to get the side up and running in august ... that's what he is there to do Whilst I admit the habitual poor starts are annoying I think that ,if Hughes hangs around,it's something we are just going to have to tolerate..a trade off if you like... There is absolutely no guarantee..or evidence..that if we started like a train we would go marauding on without having a bad run of maybe 8-10 games at some point.Though yes,it's the would be nice to put that theory to the test 😊 I disagree because there's NO (edit) guarantee that will have a good spell later and pull away from the bottom, either. It's Hughes's job to get the team ready over the Summer and hit the ground running in August. It's all about momentum.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 21:37:31 GMT
Some of you think that MH isn't planning for next season or the one after, right now. Or that he doesn't have a plan to change our playing style, address weaknesses, or replacement plan for current players.
You have a very low opinion of the man.
He shouldn't have to cater to such ignorance, but I suppose that goes with the job. Thicko football fans and FM know it alls....
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Post by Scrotnig on Dec 2, 2016 21:41:44 GMT
I'm sure he isn't preparing for it. Who says he isn't?
I do not spot many people currently posting in this thread who actually want him to go. Most of us just want the obvious problems sorting out.
Hughes is our man and I am delighted about that.
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Dec 2, 2016 21:45:32 GMT
Some of you think that MH isn't planning for next season or the one after, right now. Or that he doesn't have a plan to change our playing style, address weaknesses, or replacement plan for current players. You have a very low opinion of the man. He shouldn't have to cater to such ignorance, but I suppose that goes with the job. Thicko football fans and FM know it alls.... I know mate, we've got a few buffoons on here.
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Post by kustokie on Dec 2, 2016 21:48:52 GMT
Some of you think that MH isn't planning for next season or the one after, right now. Or that he doesn't have a plan to change our playing style, address weaknesses, or replacement plan for current players. You have a very low opinion of the man. He shouldn't have to cater to such ignorance, but I suppose that goes with the job. Thicko football fans and FM know it alls.... You would like to think he prepares well for the start of each season, but the evidence would suggest otherwise. The past two Summers have been a bit on the shambollic side, TBF.
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Post by milky on Dec 3, 2016 0:34:54 GMT
Whilst I admit the habitual poor starts are annoying I think that ,if Hughes hangs around,it's something we are just going to have to tolerate..a trade off if you like... There is absolutely no guarantee..or evidence..that if we started like a train we would go marauding on without having a bad run of maybe 8-10 games at some point.Though yes,it's the would be nice to put that theory to the test 😊 I disagree because there's NO (edit) guarantee that will have a good spell later and pull away from the bottom, either. It's Hughes's job to get the team ready over the Summer and hit the ground running in August. It's all about momentum. Well apart from the fact we have done it 4 seasons running.. Maybe you need have a word with Peter Coates as he seems happy enough with the manager.
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Post by Scrotnig on Dec 3, 2016 0:39:06 GMT
I disagree because there's NO (edit) guarantee that will have a good spell later and pull away from the bottom, either. It's Hughes's job to get the team ready over the Summer and hit the ground running in August. It's all about momentum. Well apart from the fact we have done it 4 seasons running.. Maybe you need have a word with Peter Coates as he seems happy enough with the manager. No one's saying Coates should sack Hughes. I'm sure, however, Coates doesn't say "feel free to start every season really shit, it's fine by me". And I'm sure it's not any sort of plan by Hughes either.
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Post by kustokie on Dec 3, 2016 0:41:57 GMT
Well apart from the fact we have done it 4 seasons running.. Maybe you need have a word with Peter Coates as he seems happy enough with the manager. No one's saying Coates should sack Hughes. I'm sure, however, Coates doesn't say "feel free to start every season really shit, it's fine by me". And I'm sure it's not any sort of plan by Hughes either. Exactly.
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Post by milky on Dec 3, 2016 0:42:36 GMT
Well apart from the fact we have done it 4 seasons running.. Maybe you need have a word with Peter Coates as he seems happy enough with the manager. No one's saying Coates should sack Hughes. I'm sure, however, Coates doesn't say "feel free to start every season really shit, it's fine by me". And I'm sure it's not any sort of plan by Hughes either. He also doesn't say after 5 games .."we are doomed to be this seasons Villa" Luckily he knows a season lasts 38 games.
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Post by Scrotnig on Dec 3, 2016 0:45:56 GMT
No one's saying Coates should sack Hughes. I'm sure, however, Coates doesn't say "feel free to start every season really shit, it's fine by me". And I'm sure it's not any sort of plan by Hughes either. He also doesn't say after 5 games .."we are doomed to be this seasons Villa" Luckily he knows a season lasts 38 games. I actually stated that during the closing stages of the previous season. I said if we started the next season the way we ended the then current season, we risked being the next Villa. And then we did exactly that. And then I got told it was only because we had played only 'big teams'. And then we got a four goal tonking off Palace. And yes, at that point we did look like the next Villa. Except that, last season, Villa actually started that season better than we did this one. We are also not out of the wood this season either. The Burnley game will be a good indicator of which way it's going to go.
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Post by Scrotnig on Dec 3, 2016 0:47:21 GMT
The excuses for our deplorably shit start this year do make me larf.
Why can't we just accept we were utter Shite, and stop making excuses.
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Post by milky on Dec 3, 2016 0:48:01 GMT
He also doesn't say after 5 games .."we are doomed to be this seasons Villa" Luckily he knows a season lasts 38 games. I actually stated that during the closing stages of the previous season. I said if we started the next season the way we ended the then current season, we risked being the next Villa. And then we did exactly that. And then I got told it was only because we had played only 'big teams'. And then we got a four goal tonking off Palace. And yes, at that point we did look like the next Villa. Except that, last season, Villa actually started that season better than we did this one. We are also not out of the wood this season either. The Burnley game will be a good indicator of which way it's going to go. So you were wrong basically...
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Post by kustokie on Dec 3, 2016 0:50:24 GMT
I actually stated that during the closing stages of the previous season. I said if we started the next season the way we ended the then current season, we risked being the next Villa. And then we did exactly that. And then I got told it was only because we had played only 'big teams'. And then we got a four goal tonking off Palace. And yes, at that point we did look like the next Villa. Except that, last season, Villa actually started that season better than we did this one. We are also not out of the wood this season either. The Burnley game will be a good indicator of which way it's going to go. So you were wrong basically... Nope. It's too early to tell.
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Post by Scrotnig on Dec 3, 2016 0:50:53 GMT
I actually stated that during the closing stages of the previous season. I said if we started the next season the way we ended the then current season, we risked being the next Villa. And then we did exactly that. And then I got told it was only because we had played only 'big teams'. And then we got a four goal tonking off Palace. And yes, at that point we did look like the next Villa. Except that, last season, Villa actually started that season better than we did this one. We are also not out of the wood this season either. The Burnley game will be a good indicator of which way it's going to go. So you were wrong basically... Maybe. Come back to me at the end of the season, or when we have 50 points, whichever is sooner. If you're asking me to express regret about saying we were really shit, I have none, because we WERE really shit.
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Post by milky on Dec 3, 2016 0:52:26 GMT
So you were wrong basically... Nope. It's too early to tell. Too early to tell we won't be this seasons Villa? Give your head a wobble... Jesus wept !
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Post by milky on Dec 3, 2016 0:56:16 GMT
So you were wrong basically... Maybe. Come back to me at the end of the season, or when we have 50 points, whichever is sooner. If you're asking me to express regret about saying we were really shit, I have none, because we WERE really shit. I don't think anyone would disagree with you on that point. Some of us kept our powder dry though (including the owners )and didn't make ludicrous comparisons with Villa and QPR.
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Post by kustokie on Dec 3, 2016 1:03:41 GMT
Nope. It's too early to tell. Too early to tell we won't be this seasons Villa? Give your head a wobble... Jesus wept ! Wind your neck in, mate. He said we did look like the next Villa, which we did. Actually we were worse but seem to be on the way up.
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Post by milky on Dec 3, 2016 9:37:48 GMT
Too early to tell we won't be this seasons Villa? Give your head a wobble... Jesus wept ! Wind your neck in, mate. He said we did look like the next Villa, which we did. Actually we were worse but seem to be on the way up. No problem. I'll leave you to continue to belittle and dismiss every victory/decent run we go on and concentrate on the negative stuff.
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Post by Scrotnig on Dec 3, 2016 10:02:45 GMT
Wind your neck in, mate. He said we did look like the next Villa, which we did. Actually we were worse but seem to be on the way up. No problem. I'll leave you to continue to belittle and dismiss every victory/decent run we go on and concentrate on the negative stuff. We'll we are currently on a run of ONE game, due to our woeful capitulation against Bournemouth. Just think how good things would be looking if the players had bothered to turn up for that match. Still, that's better than the run we went on at the start of the season.
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