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Post by alster on Nov 30, 2016 9:02:14 GMT
This thread is an embarrassment to the majority of Stoke fans who have spent most of their lives dreaming about what we are experiencing now For me as a teenager i did not know how special the early 70s were Now i suspect some on here do not see how special the present is,you may never see Jo Allens,Shaq,Arni and the like again in your life time. Back in the 70s i thought we would always be seeing the likes of Hudson Greenhoff Salmons I had to wait another 40 years So to the moaners give it a rest get off Mark Hughes back Same for me, I genuinely thought at the time that we'd always be in or around that position. It can so easily collapse into a pile of shit. There is still cause for uncertainty PC is old and we don't know what the dynamic will be when he passes on. We are like over half of Premier League clubs heavily reliant on TV money, if that bubble ever bursts such clubs will be hit harder than the very top clubs because our commercial revenues are miniscule by comparison. Our debt to 365 is growing, it would be good to see that being turned into shares as it has been in the past. I've never been in favor of owners being able to saddle clubs with debt. FFP was misguided and locked in the status quo. People should be able to invest how ever much they want to into a football club provided they turn that investment into shares not leave the club exposed to debt.
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Post by elystokie on Nov 30, 2016 9:19:07 GMT
Same for me, I genuinely thought at the time that we'd always be in or around that position. It can so easily collapse into a pile of shit. There is still cause for uncertainty PC is old and we don't know what the dynamic will be when he passes on. We are like over half of Premier League clubs heavily reliant on TV money, if that bubble ever bursts such clubs will be hit harder than the very top clubs because our commercial revenues are miniscule by comparison. Our debt to 365 is growing, it would be good to see that being turned into shares as it has been in the past. I've never been in favor of owners being able to saddle clubs with debt. FFP was misguided and locked in the status quo. People should be able to invest how ever much they want to into a football club provided they turn that investment into shares not leave the club exposed to debt. All very good reasons why people should stop whining and enjoy these times while they're here.
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Post by hanibal7 on Nov 30, 2016 9:27:09 GMT
This thread is an embarrassment to the majority of Stoke fans who have spent most of their lives dreaming about what we are experiencing now For me as a teenager i did not know how special the early 70s were Now i suspect some on here do not see how special the present is,you may never see Jo Allens,Shaq,Arni and the like again in your life time. Back in the 70s i thought we would always be seeing the likes of Hudson Greenhoff Salmons I had to wait another 40 years So to the moaners give it a rest get off Mark Hughes back Same for me, I genuinely thought at the time that we'd always be in or around that position. It can so easily collapse into a pile of shit. Beggars belief there are Hughes haters, finishing 9th for 3 seasons, then want to do even better or get a new manager, his tactics are shit, an odd few say, his substitutions are shit, a few say. I am sure these so called experts play fifa manager, and actualy belief they are managers who are better than Hughes. The very odd few are just totaly nuts to be honest. I even had a comment by one of those nutters that yes we won, just, but only had one shot on target, WE FRIGGING WON FFS.
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Post by Fred Ferret on Nov 30, 2016 9:42:46 GMT
There will always be doom mongers, werrets and impatient desponds.
Most people can handle the stresses and strains of uncertainty of performance and security being in the PL. Unfortunately, there are those that can't resist dwelling/bleating on about past periodic underperformance.
We are members of, probably, the toughest league in the world. Some would say that maintaining a relative equilibrium in such a league is a magnificent achievement (probably the view of the vast majority of realistic supporters). Then we seem to have the other set : those where there seems to be a preferred indulgence in dredging up doom and gloom, some almost seemingly for the sake of it.
Personally, having now clocked up 50 years of supporting my team, I don't see any positives in what is emerging in a certain clique on this board. Clearly, it is beginning to seem that some gain a sort of personal gratification in ritually dragging out the proverbial entrails on to the kitchen table and perpetually giving them a good poking!
When we periodically look back, after difficult spells, and find that the club is in a respectable position and has achieved this despite a cluster of long-term and serious injuries, it is surely reasonable to expect that there will be ups and downs. However, some of the utter bilge dredged up on here is either frankly pathetic, or evidence of agenda.
Fortunately, there are FAR more positive comments than negatives. Perhaps, for the sake of balance and avoidance of misrepresentation, the thread title should be amended to "our Mark Hughes".
Admin?
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Post by hanibal7 on Nov 30, 2016 10:03:51 GMT
There will always be doom mangers, werrets and impatient desponds. Most people can handle the stresses and strains of uncertainty of performance and security being in the PL. Unfortunately, there are those that can't resist dwelling/bleating on about past periodic underperformance. We are members of, probably, the toughest league in the world. Some would say that maintaining a relative equilibrium in such a league is a magnificent achievement (probably the view of the vast majority of realistic supporters). Then we seem to have the other set : those where there seems to be a preferred indulgence in dredging up doom and gloom, some almost seemingly for the sake of it. Personally, having now clocked up 50 years of supporting my team, I don't see any positives in what is emerging in a certain clique on this board. Clearly, it is beginning to seem that some gain a sort of personal gratification in ritually dragging out the proverbial entrails on to the kitchen table and perpetually giving them a good poking! When we periodically look back, after difficult spells, and find that the club is in a respectable position and has achieved this despite a cluster of long-term and serious injuries, It is surely reasonable to expect that there will be ups and downs. However, some of the utter bilge dredged up on here is either frankly pathetic, or evidence of agenda. Fortunately, there are FAR more positive comments than negatives. Perhaps, for the sake of balance and avoidance of misrepresentation, the thread title should be amended to "our Mark Hughes". Admin? I agree and support everything you have said.
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Post by alster on Nov 30, 2016 14:38:07 GMT
There is still cause for uncertainty PC is old and we don't know what the dynamic will be when he passes on. We are like over half of Premier League clubs heavily reliant on TV money, if that bubble ever bursts such clubs will be hit harder than the very top clubs because our commercial revenues are miniscule by comparison. Our debt to 365 is growing, it would be good to see that being turned into shares as it has been in the past. I've never been in favor of owners being able to saddle clubs with debt. FFP was misguided and locked in the status quo. People should be able to invest how ever much they want to into a football club provided they turn that investment into shares not leave the club exposed to debt. All very good reasons why people should stop whining and enjoy these times while they're here. What you perceive as whining is someone else's analysis and conclusion so why not stop whining at people who like to analyse things maybe more deeply than yourself. Like each to his own, you know.
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Post by elystokie on Nov 30, 2016 15:32:40 GMT
All very good reasons why people should stop whining and enjoy these times while they're here. What you perceive as whining is someone else's analysis and conclusion so why not stop whining at people who like to analyse things maybe more deeply than yourself. Like each to his own, you know. Analysis and conclusions when based on something meaningful can be interesting, both are pretty subjective tho'. I wasn't saying that that particular post of yours was whining by the way, but there are some posters who can't wait to stick the boot in at every opportunity, very rarely does it resemble analysis or conclusions, it resembles the pursuit of an agenda.
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Post by kustokie on Nov 30, 2016 18:06:25 GMT
Once again, I am jumping to Scrotnik's defense because he's right. However, I am cautiously optimistic that we are turning the corner and the Bournemouth game was an aberration. If we win against Burnley we'll have 16 points out a possible 21, which is fantastic. However, the facts speak for themselves: we finished very poorly last season (we were on track to qualify for Europe and we blew big time after getting knocked out of both cups in a week). AND we started this season where we left off, conceding 4 goals 3 times in 4 games and getting knocked of the LC at home to Hull. Then we won three games against poor opposition, played well at Old Trafford, were terrible at home against Bournemouth and great against Watford. So the big question is were do we go from here? Some of us don't really care about where we have come from, just where we are going. Personally I don't drive a car forward looking in the rear-view mirror. For someone who only looks forward you spend a lot of time harping back about a sequence of results from 2 months ago. What's also interesting is you're more than happy to play down any of our wins ,citing the poor quality of opposition..yet not so quick to acknowledge a number of our heavy defeats either side of the close season have come against top opposition. And Scrotnig couldn't actually be less right..because he keeps making stuff up ! Oh and one fact you and Scrotnig and the cozmicks of the world probably aren't interested in. Since Lee Grant has been in goal only Chelsea have conceded less.Lets see you turn that one into a negative. Grant's been fantastic and I am the first to admit I have been very pleasantly surprised that a second-string GK from the Championship exceeded any reasonable expectations. However, that not the point - the only way I know to move forward is to focus on the things that need improving without damaging the things that are working well. If you stand still in this business (actually any business for that matter) you'll get run over. I recall a storyI read (I wish I could find the reference) about Fergie who couldn't be found for a press conference after he had just won a major tournament. It turns out he had gone for a walk - not to relax and reflect on the victories, but to try and figure out how they could get better the following season. That's the difference between leaders and followers.
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Post by kustokie on Nov 30, 2016 19:54:48 GMT
This thread is an embarrassment to the majority of Stoke fans who have spent most of their lives dreaming about what we are experiencing now For me as a teenager i did not know how special the early 70s were Now i suspect some on here do not see how special the present is,you may never see Jo Allens,Shaq,Arni and the like again in your life time. Back in the 70s i thought we would always be seeing the likes of Hudson Greenhoff Salmons I had to wait another 40 years So to the moaners give it a rest get off Mark Hughes back "Get off Mark Hughes back". No way. Supporters are significant shareholders who invest valuable time and money in the team. We are more than mere cheerleaders who have an obligation to hold management's feet to the fire at all times. Three top 10 finishes in a row is great. However, don't we have a reasonable expectation to improve on that year over year? I guess the answer is some of us are growth investors and some of us are value investors.
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Post by Scrotnig on Nov 30, 2016 19:55:57 GMT
Once again, I am jumping to Scrotnik's defense because he's right. However, I am cautiously optimistic that we are turning the corner and the Bournemouth game was an aberration. If we win against Burnley we'll have 16 points out a possible 21, which is fantastic. However, the facts speak for themselves: we finished very poorly last season (we were on track to qualify for Europe and we blew big time after getting knocked out of both cups in a week). AND we started this season where we left off, conceding 4 goals 3 times in 4 games and getting knocked of the LC at home to Hull. Then we won three games against poor opposition, played well at Old Trafford, were terrible at home against Bournemouth and great against Watford. So the big question is were do we go from here? Some of us don't really care about where we have come from, just where we are going. Personally I don't drive a car forward looking in the rear-view mirror. For someone who only looks forward you spend a lot of time harping back about a sequence of results from 2 months ago. What's also interesting is you're more than happy to play down any of our wins ,citing the poor quality of opposition..yet not so quick to acknowledge a number of our heavy defeats either side of the close season have come against top opposition. And Scrotnig couldn't actually be less right..because he keeps making stuff up ! Oh and one fact you and Scrotnig and the cozmicks of the world probably aren't interested in. Since Lee Grant has been in goal only Chelsea have conceded less.Lets see you turn that one into a negative. Ahem. Search my posts, if you can be arsed. I have been one of the greatest proponents of the effect Grant has had on the team. Indeed, I'm one of those who states the unstateable - that perhaps, initially, Jack should not simply walk straight back into the team. Sure, he will at some point, but Grant has earned the right to have him fight for his place. That's no insult to either of them. I have also not dwelled on the 'we only beat poor teams' thing, since we have a bit of a record of NOT beating poor teams (see Bournemouth last week), so actually beating them is in fact an improvement. I think we are progressing well after a rubbish start. But this is not where the team should be three years into Hughes' reign, and whilst I want him to stay on and think he is the ideal manager for us, that doesn't mean there aren't still serious areas of concern and these do need to be addressed. It's precisely BECAUSE I remember the dark years of watching us get tonked 6-0 by the likes of Grimsby Town that I understand the importance of getting things right. I think some of our newer fans just think if we go down it's ok because we'll come straight back up. It wasn't like that last time, it took us a quarter of a century. So we need not be complacent about things. Bolton got like that and where are they now? Dead and buried, that's where.
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Post by bmstoke on Nov 30, 2016 20:18:47 GMT
For someone who only looks forward you spend a lot of time harping back about a sequence of results from 2 months ago. What's also interesting is you're more than happy to play down any of our wins ,citing the poor quality of opposition..yet not so quick to acknowledge a number of our heavy defeats either side of the close season have come against top opposition. And Scrotnig couldn't actually be less right..because he keeps making stuff up ! Oh and one fact you and Scrotnig and the cozmicks of the world probably aren't interested in. Since Lee Grant has been in goal only Chelsea have conceded less.Lets see you turn that one into a negative. Ahem. Search my posts, if you can be arsed. I have been one of the greatest proponents of the effect Grant has had on the team. Indeed, I'm one of those who states the unstateable - that perhaps, initially, Jack should not simply walk straight back into the team. Sure, he will at some point, but Grant has earned the right to have him fight for his place. That's no insult to either of them. I have also not dwelled on the 'we only beat poor teams' thing, since we have a bit of a record of NOT beating poor teams (see Bournemouth last week), so actually beating them is in fact an improvement. I think we are progressing well after a rubbish start. But this is not where the team should be three years into Hughes' reign, and whilst I want him to stay on and think he is the ideal manager for us, that doesn't mean there aren't still serious areas of concern and these do need to be addressed. It's precisely BECAUSE I remember the dark years of watching us get tonked 6-0 by the likes of Grimsby Town that I understand the importance of getting things right. I think some of our newer fans just think if we go down it's ok because we'll come straight back up. It wasn't like that last time, it took us a quarter of a century. So we need not be complacent about things. Bolton got like that and where are they now? Dead and buried, that's where. We tonked Grimsby 6-0, I don't remember them ever doing it to us.
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Post by kustokie on Nov 30, 2016 20:19:42 GMT
For someone who only looks forward you spend a lot of time harping back about a sequence of results from 2 months ago. What's also interesting is you're more than happy to play down any of our wins ,citing the poor quality of opposition..yet not so quick to acknowledge a number of our heavy defeats either side of the close season have come against top opposition. And Scrotnig couldn't actually be less right..because he keeps making stuff up ! Oh and one fact you and Scrotnig and the cozmicks of the world probably aren't interested in. Since Lee Grant has been in goal only Chelsea have conceded less.Lets see you turn that one into a negative. Ahem. Search my posts, if you can be arsed. I have been one of the greatest proponents of the effect Grant has had on the team. Indeed, I'm one of those who states the unstateable - that perhaps, initially, Jack should not simply walk straight back into the team. Sure, he will at some point, but Grant has earned the right to have him fight for his place. That's no insult to either of them. I have also not dwelled on the 'we only beat poor teams' thing, since we have a bit of a record of NOT beating poor teams (see Bournemouth last week), so actually beating them is in fact an improvement. I think we are progressing well after a rubbish start. But this is not where the team should be three years into Hughes' reign, and whilst I want him to stay on and think he is the ideal manager for us, that doesn't mean there aren't still serious areas of concern and these do need to be addressed. It's precisely BECAUSE I remember the dark years of watching us get tonked 6-0 by the likes of Grimsby Town that I understand the importance of getting things right. I think some of our newer fans just think if we go down it's ok because we'll come straight back up. It wasn't like that last time, it took us a quarter of a century. So we need not be complacent about things. Bolton got like that and where are they now? Dead and buried, that's where. Well said, sir. Onwards and upwards.
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Post by blackpoolred on Nov 30, 2016 20:27:21 GMT
There will always be doom mongers, werrets and impatient desponds. Most people can handle the stresses and strains of uncertainty of performance and security being in the PL. Unfortunately, there are those that can't resist dwelling/bleating on about past periodic underperformance. We are members of, probably, the toughest league in the world. Some would say that maintaining a relative equilibrium in such a league is a magnificent achievement (probably the view of the vast majority of realistic supporters). Then we seem to have the other set : those where there seems to be a preferred indulgence in dredging up doom and gloom, some almost seemingly for the sake of it. Personally, having now clocked up 50 years of supporting my team, I don't see any positives in what is emerging in a certain clique on this board. Clearly, it is beginning to seem that some gain a sort of personal gratification in ritually dragging out the proverbial entrails on to the kitchen table and perpetually giving them a good poking! When we periodically look back, after difficult spells, and find that the club is in a respectable position and has achieved this despite a cluster of long-term and serious injuries, it is surely reasonable to expect that there will be ups and downs. However, some of the utter bilge dredged up on here is either frankly pathetic, or evidence of agenda. Fortunately, there are FAR more positive comments than negatives. Perhaps, for the sake of balance and avoidance of misrepresentation, the thread title should be amended to "our Mark Hughes". Admin? We are on a discussion board. For me it boils down to being constructive. There are 1 or 2 poster on here that are a tad neanderthal and abusive, but the majority of the posters give their reasons for their disgruntlements and this then leads to some good debates where people exchage their opinions, sometimes totally opposite. Good criticism helps people to improve - look what happens when everybody around you just keeps calling you the chosen one..
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Post by Scrotnig on Nov 30, 2016 20:37:09 GMT
We tonked Grimsby 6-0, I don't remember them ever doing it to us. It's a metaphor for type of games we suffered when in the lower tiers, not an actual result. I can't remember the actual results, I have blanked them from my mind in order to preserve my sanity. Just think "really shite lower league opponents" and "really bad hammering". Add "cold, wet and windy night at their ground" for good measure. That was us, that was. I'm not going back there.
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Post by bmstoke on Nov 30, 2016 20:46:21 GMT
We tonked Grimsby 6-0, I don't remember them ever doing it to us. It's a metaphor for type of games we suffered when in the lower tiers, not an actual result. I can't remember the actual results, I have blanked them from my mind in order to preserve my sanity. Just think "really shite lower league opponents" and "really bad hammering". Add "cold, wet and windy night at their ground" for good measure. That was us, that was. I'm not going back there. Oh, I thought it was just another example of the rewriting of history that's been so prevalent on this thread.
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Post by davethebass on Nov 30, 2016 22:06:38 GMT
FA Cup second replay. Stoke 6 Grimsby 0, after two 0-0 draws. (87, 88?). My girlfriend at the time was from Grimsby
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Post by Do it for dobing on Dec 1, 2016 2:18:35 GMT
This thread is an embarrassment to the majority of Stoke fans who have spent most of their lives dreaming about what we are experiencing now For me as a teenager i did not know how special the early 70s were Now i suspect some on here do not see how special the present is,you may never see Jo Allens,Shaq,Arni and the like again in your life time. Back in the 70s i thought we would always be seeing the likes of Hudson Greenhoff Salmons I had to wait another 40 years So to the moaners give it a rest get off Mark Hughes back "Get off Mark Hughes back". No way. Supporters are significant shareholders who invest valuable time and money in the team. We are more than mere cheerleaders who have an obligation to hold management's feet to the fire at all times. Three top 10 finishes in a row is great. However, don't we have a reasonable expectation to improve on that year over year? I guess the answer is some of us are growth investors and some of us are value investors. Kustokie it is a sport not a car production line Certainly calling for the managers head after 5 games is pathetic We will have more bad runs of form in the future that is football You judge the manager over a season This particular manager is successful and is able to persuade very talented footballers to wear the red and white in the same way as Tony Waddington was So I say again cut him some slack when we lose form key players or bad luck comes The thread is ridiculous
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 2:53:13 GMT
This thread is an embarrassment to the majority of Stoke fans who have spent most of their lives dreaming about what we are experiencing now For me as a teenager i did not know how special the early 70s were Now i suspect some on here do not see how special the present is,you may never see Jo Allens,Shaq,Arni and the like again in your life time. Back in the 70s i thought we would always be seeing the likes of Hudson Greenhoff Salmons I had to wait another 40 years So to the moaners give it a rest get off Mark Hughes back "Get off Mark Hughes back". No way. Supporters are significant shareholders who invest valuable time and money in the team. We are more than mere cheerleaders who have an obligation to hold management's feet to the fire at all times. Three top 10 finishes in a row is great. However, don't we have a reasonable expectation to improve on that year over year? I guess the answer is some of us are growth investors and some of us are value investors. Pure waffle. When you think of football like normal business economics, you've lost the plot and become a prawn sandwich eating, JCL nu-fan Hooray Henry type.
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Post by milky on Dec 1, 2016 6:34:15 GMT
This thread is an embarrassment to the majority of Stoke fans who have spent most of their lives dreaming about what we are experiencing now For me as a teenager i did not know how special the early 70s were Now i suspect some on here do not see how special the present is,you may never see Jo Allens,Shaq,Arni and the like again in your life time. Back in the 70s i thought we would always be seeing the likes of Hudson Greenhoff Salmons I had to wait another 40 years So to the moaners give it a rest get off Mark Hughes back "Get off Mark Hughes back". No way. Supporters are significant shareholders who invest valuable time and money in the team. We are more than mere cheerleaders who have an obligation to hold management's feet to the fire at all times. Three top 10 finishes in a row is great. However, don't we have a reasonable expectation to improve on that year over year? I guess the answer is some of us are growth investors and some of us are value investors. More business speak David Brent style waffle....
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Post by Kjones9 on Dec 1, 2016 8:09:17 GMT
This thread is an embarrassment to the majority of Stoke fans who have spent most of their lives dreaming about what we are experiencing now For me as a teenager i did not know how special the early 70s were Now i suspect some on here do not see how special the present is,you may never see Jo Allens,Shaq,Arni and the like again in your life time. Back in the 70s i thought we would always be seeing the likes of Hudson Greenhoff Salmons I had to wait another 40 years So to the moaners give it a rest get off Mark Hughes back "Get off Mark Hughes back". No way. Supporters are significant shareholders who invest valuable time and money in the team. We are more than mere cheerleaders who have an obligation to hold management's feet to the fire at all times. Three top 10 finishes in a row is great. However, don't we have a reasonable expectation to improve on that year over year? I guess the answer is some of us are growth investors and some of us are value investors. So how much do you pay stoke for the TV stream across the pond?
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 1, 2016 8:32:00 GMT
This thread is an embarrassment to the majority of Stoke fans who have spent most of their lives dreaming about what we are experiencing now For me as a teenager i did not know how special the early 70s were Now i suspect some on here do not see how special the present is,you may never see Jo Allens,Shaq,Arni and the like again in your life time. Back in the 70s i thought we would always be seeing the likes of Hudson Greenhoff Salmons I had to wait another 40 years So to the moaners give it a rest get off Mark Hughes back "Get off Mark Hughes back". No way. Supporters are significant shareholders who invest valuable time and money in the team. We are more than mere cheerleaders who have an obligation to hold management's feet to the fire at all times. Three top 10 finishes in a row is great. However, don't we have a reasonable expectation to improve on that year over year? I guess the answer is some of us are growth investors and some of us are value investors. So you expect us to win the league in 8 years? Is that reasonable?
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Post by MilanStokie on Dec 1, 2016 8:36:50 GMT
"Get off Mark Hughes back". No way. Supporters are significant shareholders who invest valuable time and money in the team. We are more than mere cheerleaders who have an obligation to hold management's feet to the fire at all times. Three top 10 finishes in a row is great. However, don't we have a reasonable expectation to improve on that year over year? I guess the answer is some of us are growth investors and some of us are value investors. So you expect us to win the league in 8 years? Is that reasonable? and then if the manager cannot improve on that then the manager needs to be fucked off.
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Post by butlerstbob on Dec 1, 2016 8:45:07 GMT
This thread is an embarrassment to the majority of Stoke fans who have spent most of their lives dreaming about what we are experiencing now For me as a teenager i did not know how special the early 70s were Now i suspect some on here do not see how special the present is,you may never see Jo Allens,Shaq,Arni and the like again in your life time. Back in the 70s i thought we would always be seeing the likes of Hudson Greenhoff Salmons I had to wait another 40 years So to the moaners give it a rest get off Mark Hughes back "Get off Mark Hughes back". No way. Supporters are significant shareholders who invest valuable time and money in the team. We are more than mere cheerleaders who have an obligation to hold management's feet to the fire at all times. Three top 10 finishes in a row is great. However, don't we have a reasonable expectation to improve on that year over year? I guess the answer is some of us are growth investors and some of us are value investors. There lies the problem, most of these significant shareholders that spend their life trying to get Hughes sacked dont actually go to the game so that makes your ramblings totally worthless!
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Post by peterthornesboots on Dec 1, 2016 9:04:10 GMT
This thread is an embarrassment to the majority of Stoke fans who have spent most of their lives dreaming about what we are experiencing now For me as a teenager i did not know how special the early 70s were Now i suspect some on here do not see how special the present is,you may never see Jo Allens,Shaq,Arni and the like again in your life time. Back in the 70s i thought we would always be seeing the likes of Hudson Greenhoff Salmons I had to wait another 40 years So to the moaners give it a rest get off Mark Hughes back "Get off Mark Hughes back". No way. Supporters are significant shareholders who invest valuable time and money in the team. We are more than mere cheerleaders who have an obligation to hold management's feet to the fire at all times. Three top 10 finishes in a row is great. However, don't we have a reasonable expectation to improve on that year over year? I guess the answer is some of us are growth investors and some of us are value investors. As a football club we've been on an upward trajectory for the best part of twenty years with no real blips (in the form of relegation). At some point that progress evens out (as it has done for the last couple of years). Football isn't like any other business, and to break into the top 8 clubs in the country is a major challenge that won't be accomplished over night. On and off the pitch the club is improving. Some of us understand the game well enough to appreciate that and that the road to success isn't always a smooth one.
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Post by milky on Dec 1, 2016 9:27:17 GMT
For someone who only looks forward you spend a lot of time harping back about a sequence of results from 2 months ago. What's also interesting is you're more than happy to play down any of our wins ,citing the poor quality of opposition..yet not so quick to acknowledge a number of our heavy defeats either side of the close season have come against top opposition. And Scrotnig couldn't actually be less right..because he keeps making stuff up ! Oh and one fact you and Scrotnig and the cozmicks of the world probably aren't interested in. Since Lee Grant has been in goal only Chelsea have conceded less.Lets see you turn that one into a negative. Ahem. Search my posts, if you can be arsed. I have been one of the greatest proponents of the effect Grant has had on the team. Indeed, I'm one of those who states the unstateable - that perhaps, initially, Jack should not simply walk straight back into the team. Sure, he will at some point, but Grant has earned the right to have him fight for his place. That's no insult to either of them. I have also not dwelled on the 'we only beat poor teams' thing, since we have a bit of a record of NOT beating poor teams (see Bournemouth last week), so actually beating them is in fact an improvement. I think we are progressing well after a rubbish start. But this is not where the team should be three years into Hughes' reign, and whilst I want him to stay on and think he is the ideal manager for us, that doesn't mean there aren't still serious areas of concern and these do need to be addressed. It's precisely BECAUSE I remember the dark years of watching us get tonked 6-0 by the likes of Grimsby Town that I understand the importance of getting things right. I think some of our newer fans just think if we go down it's ok because we'll come straight back up. It wasn't like that last time, it took us a quarter of a century. So we need not be complacent about things. Bolton got like that and where are they now? Dead and buried, that's where. It seems football is pretty much black and white in your world. Do you expect a club like Stoke to win every match against "poor teams " (your words )like Bournemouth during a 38 game long season? And where is the complacency you speak of ??Hughes has alluded time and time again that we are looking to improve. It's not quite as simple to expect each season to be better than the one before. Doesn't always work that way for various reasons.See Chelsea last season . There's still plenty to improve I'll give you that but to expect us to go marauding on now without any blips is totally unrealistic.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Dec 1, 2016 10:00:24 GMT
I sort of get the impression from this thread that some people do get some pleasure from us losing (not a lot of pleasure - they still want us to win) because it means they can pat themselves on the back and say I was right.
They can then turn it round by saying "I only want the best for the club" and this ten gives them the right to go on to be heavily critical of every little error that is made by the manager and how it easy it is to see this mistake, and how they noticed it a month ago.
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Post by Will_75 on Dec 1, 2016 10:15:47 GMT
"I guess the answer is some of us are growth investors and some of us are value investors."
Christ alive
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Post by Scrotnig on Dec 1, 2016 11:07:24 GMT
Ahem. Search my posts, if you can be arsed. I have been one of the greatest proponents of the effect Grant has had on the team. Indeed, I'm one of those who states the unstateable - that perhaps, initially, Jack should not simply walk straight back into the team. Sure, he will at some point, but Grant has earned the right to have him fight for his place. That's no insult to either of them. I have also not dwelled on the 'we only beat poor teams' thing, since we have a bit of a record of NOT beating poor teams (see Bournemouth last week), so actually beating them is in fact an improvement. I think we are progressing well after a rubbish start. But this is not where the team should be three years into Hughes' reign, and whilst I want him to stay on and think he is the ideal manager for us, that doesn't mean there aren't still serious areas of concern and these do need to be addressed. It's precisely BECAUSE I remember the dark years of watching us get tonked 6-0 by the likes of Grimsby Town that I understand the importance of getting things right. I think some of our newer fans just think if we go down it's ok because we'll come straight back up. It wasn't like that last time, it took us a quarter of a century. So we need not be complacent about things. Bolton got like that and where are they now? Dead and buried, that's where. It seems football is pretty much black and white in your world. Do you expect a club like Stoke to win every match against "poor teams " (your words )like Bournemouth during a 38 game long season? And where is the complacency you speak of ??Hughes has alluded time and time again that we are looking to improve. It's not quite as simple to expect each season to be better than the one before. Doesn't always work that way for various reasons.See Chelsea last season . There's still plenty to improve I'll give you that but to expect us to go marauding on now without any blips is totally unrealistic. Of course we'll have blips. But what we saw at the start of this season was not a 'blip', it was nearly half a season's worth of complete shite. Hughes certainly won;t be complacent, but it appears some of his players are, or certainly were. For some reason we didn't bother showing up against Bournemouth. Ordinarily, a bad day isn't a concern, but it was worryingly similar to the bad day after day after day at the start of the season. The reyurn to form hadn't been long enough or sustained enough at that point, and arguably still hasn't been. We've beaten some crap teams, that's great, but we need to be better than that and we'll soon find out if that's the case. In short, the team feels extremely fragile, like one slight issue such as an injury or someone being played out of position means everyone gives up and doesn't even bother. If I didn't know better it comes across like they're sulking sometimes. Things are still not right at the club. This is a very poor season so far. It doesn't make me any less of a fan for saying it. I'm not going to pretend everything is sweetness and light when it is very obviously not. Now, obviously, if we turn The Arse over I will almost certainly feel differently and this will be a wonderful season that just had a handful of bad games at the beginning.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 11:43:13 GMT
It seems football is pretty much black and white in your world. Do you expect a club like Stoke to win every match against "poor teams " (your words )like Bournemouth during a 38 game long season? And where is the complacency you speak of ??Hughes has alluded time and time again that we are looking to improve. It's not quite as simple to expect each season to be better than the one before. Doesn't always work that way for various reasons.See Chelsea last season . There's still plenty to improve I'll give you that but to expect us to go marauding on now without any blips is totally unrealistic. Of course we'll have blips. But what we saw at the start of this season was not a 'blip', it was nearly half a season's worth of complete shite. Hughes certainly won;t be complacent, but it appears some of his players are, or certainly were. For some reason we didn't bother showing up against Bournemouth. Ordinarily, a bad day isn't a concern, but it was worryingly similar to the bad day after day after day at the start of the season. The reyurn to form hadn't been long enough or sustained enough at that point, and arguably still hasn't been. We've beaten some crap teams, that's great, but we need to be better than that and we'll soon find out if that's the case. In short, the team feels extremely fragile, like one slight issue such as an injury or someone being played out of position means everyone gives up and doesn't even bother. If I didn't know better it comes across like they're sulking sometimes. Things are still not right at the club. This is a very poor season so far. It doesn't make me any less of a fan for saying it. I'm not going to pretend everything is sweetness and light when it is very obviously not. Now, obviously, if we turn The Arse over I will almost certainly feel differently and this will be a wonderful season that just had a handful of bad games at the beginning. One of the most stable, well run Premier League clubs of the last few years, with a sell out home crowd week in week in out and a manager backed by both his players and the board. Sat in mid-table after a poor start, recovered with 15 points from the last 8 games. How are things not right out of interest?
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Post by milky on Dec 1, 2016 12:48:17 GMT
It seems football is pretty much black and white in your world. Do you expect a club like Stoke to win every match against "poor teams " (your words )like Bournemouth during a 38 game long season? And where is the complacency you speak of ??Hughes has alluded time and time again that we are looking to improve. It's not quite as simple to expect each season to be better than the one before. Doesn't always work that way for various reasons.See Chelsea last season . There's still plenty to improve I'll give you that but to expect us to go marauding on now without any blips is totally unrealistic. Of course we'll have blips. But what we saw at the start of this season was not a 'blip', it was nearly half a season's worth of complete shite. Hughes certainly won;t be complacent, but it appears some of his players are, or certainly were. For some reason we didn't bother showing up against Bournemouth. Ordinarily, a bad day isn't a concern, but it was worryingly similar to the bad day after day after day at the start of the season. The reyurn to form hadn't been long enough or sustained enough at that point, and arguably still hasn't been. We've beaten some crap teams, that's great, but we need to be better than that and we'll soon find out if that's the case. In short, the team feels extremely fragile, like one slight issue such as an injury or someone being played out of position means everyone gives up and doesn't even bother. If I didn't know better it comes across like they're sulking sometimes. Things are still not right at the club. This is a very poor season so far. It doesn't make me any less of a fan for saying it. I'm not going to pretend everything is sweetness and light when it is very obviously not. Now, obviously, if we turn The Arse over I will almost certainly feel differently and this will be a wonderful season that just had a handful of bad games at the beginning. So..in short..a defeat to a team you consider poor and it's a crisis.. Yet a win against arsenal and it's suddenly become a wonderful season.. Like I sad...black and white..
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