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Post by philm87 on Jul 30, 2016 9:02:21 GMT
He can't play in a two-man midfield unless we drop Imbula, so that won't happen. Maybe at home against weaker teams we are trying to break down we can get away with it, but a two-man midfield without a Whelan-type player will see us get badly over run.
He can play in a three-man midfield alongside Imbula, but with Whelan in a deeper role behind them. However, that would surely mean either resurrecting for False-9 to play 4-3-3 or setting up with attacking wingbacks and playing 5-3-2.
In the False 9 scenario, we either drop Bojan or drop our big money striker (Berahino or whoever it might be). They can't both play in that system.
In the 5-3-2 scenario we are left with a similar scenario. I don't see how Arnie or Shaq fit into that.
We have a lot of technically gifted midfield players now, but I don't see how they can all be on the same pitch together.
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Post by slother on Jul 30, 2016 9:10:39 GMT
We can play with Allen and Imbula in midfield. Whelan is only a midfield enforcer by virtue of his tactically-given role within the team, it's not as if he's exceptionally strong, quick or good at tackling. Allen got more interceptions than any other midfielder at the Euros and though less stocky than Glenn it's not as if he's made of paper.
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Post by arniepieinthesky on Jul 30, 2016 9:10:41 GMT
He's not a no.10 (aka Bojan)
I cant see us actually pissing about to much with the formation, despite the pre season experimentation - so I'd base it on 4-2-3-1, certainly as a starting line up.
Whelan's position is the only one up for grabs that I can see, due to his age. So I think Hughes feels he has the attributes to one fill that defensive void and discipline, along with other attributes driving the team forwards from defence.
But time will tell...
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jul 30, 2016 9:21:38 GMT
Allen Imbula Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic Diouf
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Post by tenerblue on Jul 30, 2016 9:27:59 GMT
Allen Imbula Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic Diouf at the moment that's got to be the set up
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jul 30, 2016 9:30:53 GMT
Instead of Whelan.
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Post by kurt on Jul 30, 2016 9:32:09 GMT
We can play with Allen and Imbula in midfield. Whelan is only a midfield enforcer by virtue of his tactically-given role within the team, it's not as if he's exceptionally strong, quick or good at tackling. Allen got more interceptions than any other midfielder at the Euros and though less stocky than Glenn it's not as if he's made of paper. I hope, Allen and Imbula are our defensive midfield players in the following season.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 9:43:02 GMT
Allen Imbula Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic Diouf Thats how I see it at the moment Diouf might change if we sign a new CF.
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Post by stokiejoeofalsager on Jul 30, 2016 9:47:13 GMT
I think people may be underestimating aliens defensive abilities. He can put some cracking tackles in and his positioning is spot on.
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Post by cousindupree on Jul 30, 2016 10:00:53 GMT
Maybe initially a few games on the bench to learn the DM role from the master
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jul 30, 2016 10:01:43 GMT
Where has this idea that Joe Allen is a fancy dan creative player come from?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 10:06:23 GMT
If Allen and Imbula play in midfield together we'll get absolutely mullered.
The question should be where does Imbula fit in? Defensively he's a nightmare, he doesn't track back or follow runners. He's already proved at Porto that he's not happy in a defensive midfield role. He's not a 10 either. The role goes to Bojan or even Shaqiri.
I know some on here have a raging bones on here for him but I just don't see it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 10:18:47 GMT
Allen Imbula Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic Diouf Christ I've got a lazy one forming just reading that.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 30, 2016 10:31:12 GMT
I can't see Allen and Imbula working but that's where he will play.
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Post by MilanStokie on Jul 30, 2016 10:33:56 GMT
If Allen and Imbula play in midfield together we'll get absolutely mullered. The question should be where does Imbula fit in? Defensively he's a nightmare, he doesn't track back or follow runners. He's already proved at Porto that he's not happy in a defensive midfield role. He's not a 10 either. The role goes to Bojan or even Shaqiri. I know some on here have a raging bones on here for him but I just don't see it. at porto i seem to recall him playing in attacking mid and even wide but rarely in the position we deploy him. I don't get your concept. Allen has many defensive qualities not too disimilar to the glenn whelan we bought 10 years ago who was supposed to actually be a goal getting play maker....
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 10:42:16 GMT
I think people may be underestimating aliens defensive abilities. He can put some cracking tackles in and his positioning is spot on. One might say they're out of this world.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jul 30, 2016 10:42:24 GMT
Have we decided there's no chance whatsoever that Imbula can add a defensive side to his game?
All he has to do is improve his positioning off the ball and bother to track his runners and he'll be absolutely unstoppable in this league.
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Post by RAF on Jul 30, 2016 10:43:41 GMT
Where has this idea that Joe Allen is a fancy dan creative player come from? Brenton 'Fucking' Todgers, so it has to be true. 'The Welsh Xavi' H :)
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Post by clarkeda on Jul 30, 2016 10:53:21 GMT
Everyone forgets that whelan was more advanced and has grown into the role. Who said allen can't?
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Jul 30, 2016 10:55:37 GMT
In midfield.
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Post by liamo on Jul 30, 2016 10:57:04 GMT
Sparky likes interchangeable formations, front 3 that can play anywhere, it's not beyond impossible that he'll expect if one goes forward the other to stay back and vice versa, the PL is changing, you'll see a lot of high pressing and high scoring games this coming season imo
I love Whelan but he really doesn't off anything going forward, with Allen you sacrifice some defensive sturdiness for much more forward capability
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 30, 2016 10:57:41 GMT
1. Allen didn't ever play the 'Whelan role' at Liverpool or Swansea.
2. Imbula has shown absolutely no signs whatsoever that he's interested in defending, indeed Porto got rid of him after six months because he seemed unable to play a deeper role.
So taking both of those things into consideration then I think the OP's question is perfectly valid.
Can Imbula up his game in this regard? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see?
Can Allen learn to play the Whelan role? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see.
Might Hughes decided to even ditch (or alter) the Whelan role? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see.
Might Hughes (at times) play Whelan and Allen together and one of Imbula and Bojan will miss out? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see.
What we do know, is that Allen is not a straight like for like swap for Whelan at this point.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 30, 2016 10:59:12 GMT
1. Allen didn't ever play the 'Whelan role' at Liverpool or Swansea. 2. Imbula has shown absolutely no signs whatsoever that he's, interested in defending, indeed Porto got rid of him after six months because he seemed unable to play a deeper role. So taking both of those things into consideration then I think the OP's question is perfectly valid. Can Imbula up his game in this regard? We simply don't know we'll have to wait and see? Can Allen learn to play the Whelan role? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see. Might Hughes decided to even ditch (or alter) the Whelan role? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see. Might Hughes (at times) play Whelan and Allen together and one of Imbula and Bojan will miss out? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see. What we do know is that Allen is not a straight like for like swap for Whelan at this point. Or he shouldn't be treated as such. I agree with you but the concensus seems he is like for like and I simply don't agree with it.
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Post by mattador78 on Jul 30, 2016 10:59:24 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 11:09:15 GMT
If Allen and Imbula play in midfield together we'll get absolutely mullered. The question should be where does Imbula fit in? Defensively he's a nightmare, he doesn't track back or follow runners. He's already proved at Porto that he's not happy in a defensive midfield role. He's not a 10 either. The role goes to Bojan or even Shaqiri. I know some on here have a raging bones on here for him but I just don't see it. at porto i seem to recall him playing in attacking mid and even wide but rarely in the position we deploy him. I don't get your concept. Allen has many defensive qualities not too disimilar to the glenn whelan we bought 10 years ago who was supposed to actually be a goal getting play maker.... Yet I fully expect that if/when Allen and Imbula start together and Joe puts in a mis-timed tackle or is found anywhere near the opposition's 18 yard box people will be howling and campaigning for Glenn to start, completely ignoring the fact that he does exactly that throughout games. We've convinced ourselves that Whelan is this monumental destroyer and CDM extraordinaire, when, from what little I've seen of Allen he is more than capable of doing a good job breaking up play in CM and his distribution of the ball from a deeper position is much better than Glenn's (and by some distance). He may even learn to come and collect it from his back 4 and be that link; there's no reason he can't do that job if it's what LMH wants from him.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 30, 2016 12:16:00 GMT
1. Allen didn't ever play the 'Whelan role' at Liverpool or Swansea. 2. Imbula has shown absolutely no signs whatsoever that he's interested in defending, indeed Porto got rid of him after six months because he seemed unable to play a deeper role. So taking both of those things into consideration then I think the OP's question is perfectly valid. Can Imbula up his game in this regard? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see? Can Allen learn to play the Whelan role? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see. Might Hughes decided to even ditch (or alter) the Whelan role? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see. Might Hughes (at times) play Whelan and Allen together and one of Imbula and Bojan will miss out? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see. What we do know, is that Allen is not a straight like for like swap for Whelan at this point. What role did he play then? I have always thought of him as a near carbon copy of Whelan. Intelligent footballer who keeps things simple and plugs the gaps others leave behind in the process. He isn't a goal scorer, I've never seen him as being particularly creative so if he isn't a Whelan upgrade at some point, you've got me wondering what the hell he actually is.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 12:17:29 GMT
Allen in whelans current position and whelan our new centre back. Hughes doesn't seem to care too much about the defence so could whelan be thrown in there? I wouldn't but hughes might.
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jul 30, 2016 12:19:21 GMT
Allen Imbula Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic Joselu Fixed that for you mate.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Jul 30, 2016 12:21:55 GMT
Allen Imbula Shaqiri Bojan Arnautovic Joselu Fixed that for you mate. Nah, reckon you've broke it.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 30, 2016 12:22:22 GMT
1. Allen didn't ever play the 'Whelan role' at Liverpool or Swansea. 2. Imbula has shown absolutely no signs whatsoever that he's interested in defending, indeed Porto got rid of him after six months because he seemed unable to play a deeper role. So taking both of those things into consideration then I think the OP's question is perfectly valid. Can Imbula up his game in this regard? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see? Can Allen learn to play the Whelan role? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see. Might Hughes decided to even ditch (or alter) the Whelan role? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see. Might Hughes (at times) play Whelan and Allen together and one of Imbula and Bojan will miss out? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see. What we do know, is that Allen is not a straight like for like swap for Whelan at this point. What role did he play then? I have always thought of him as a near carbon copy of Whelan. Intelligent footballer who keeps things simple and plugs the gaps others leave behind in the process. He isn't a goal scorer, I've never seen him as being particularly creative so if he isn't a Whelan upgrade at some point, you've got me wondering what the hell he actually is. 'you've got me wondering what the hell he actually is' That sums up my thoughts on Allen pretty much throughout his career!
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