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Post by chiefdelilah on Jul 30, 2016 13:59:55 GMT
4-3-3 would basically mean either false 9 or bye bye Bojan.
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Post by trentvale68 on Jul 30, 2016 14:04:50 GMT
Has Joe Allen ever played in defence if & when injuries have forced it etc??
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 14:05:40 GMT
4-3-3 would basically mean either false 9 or bye bye Bojan. I think it would be the former to be honest (if a 4-3-3 were deployed from the start).
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 30, 2016 14:06:12 GMT
4-3-3 would basically mean either false 9 or bye bye Bojan. I think that's what will eventually happen. I don't like it.
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Post by lagwafis on Jul 30, 2016 14:07:49 GMT
I think in Allen's case good players can adapt their role. As others have said Whelan was a much more attack minded player in his early days at Wednesday, he scored eight the season before we signed him and was seen more as a Eustace replacement when he came in. Working with a couple of Wednesday supporters they were surprised just how well he's changed his game compared to the player they remember. By coincidence they saw Kavanagh as a deeper sitting, holding midfielder for them compared to the attacking, goalscoring, creative player he was with us and Cardiff. Even Delap was viewed as a goalscoring midfielder at Derby (for a short time at least) before becoming more of a protector.
I wouldn't confess to seeing too much of Allen beyond the semi final and the Euros. If anything he looked a good reader and could anticipate where the ball was going to be. Hughes might see that as something to build on. Not every defensive midfielder needs to be a big destroyer type.
I guess we'll learn more in the next friendly..
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jul 30, 2016 15:49:46 GMT
Regarding this 433 conspiracy, what are we basing this on? Simply the fact that we've signed Joe Allen. Joe Allen is a better all round player than Glenn Whelan. That's no slight on Whelan at all, it's just something that I would expect most people to agree on. I'm convinced he's versatile and adaptable enough to simply move his game back ten yards.
We won't be getting rid of Bojan any time soon. Stop pissing your knickers and look at the simpler explanation compared to speculating about a change in formation (and 4231 isn't actually to dissimilar to 433 anyway, so negligible in fact that it wouldn't be worth doing).
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jul 30, 2016 16:13:44 GMT
Regarding this 433 conspiracy, what are we basing this on? Simply the fact that we've signed Joe Allen. Joe Allen is a better all round player than Glenn Whelan. That's no slight on Whelan at all, it's just something that I would expect most people to agree on. I'm convinced he's versatile and adaptable enough to simply move his game back ten yards. We won't be getting rid of Bojan any time soon. Stop pissing your knickers and look at the simpler explanation compared to speculating about a change in formation (and 4231 isn't actually to dissimilar to 433 anyway, so negligible in fact that it wouldn't be worth doing). The big difference is that there's a clear role for a number 10 in one role, and their isn't in the other.
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Post by mysteriojr on Jul 30, 2016 16:15:28 GMT
4-3-3 would basically mean either false 9 or bye bye Bojan. I think that's what will eventually happen. I don't like it. If that was the case then why go all out for berahino??
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 30, 2016 16:16:15 GMT
I think that's what will eventually happen. I don't like it. If that was the case then why go all out for berahino?? To play up front?
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jul 30, 2016 16:16:45 GMT
That's the only difference, and it's not worth doing with the personnel at our disposal. It would be creating an obstacle for not much (if anything) in the way of pay off. It won't happen. There's no point.
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Post by mysteriojr on Jul 30, 2016 16:18:11 GMT
If that was the case then why go all out for berahino?? To play up front? And Bojan?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jul 30, 2016 16:18:59 GMT
That's the only difference, and it's not worth doing with the personnel at our disposal. It would be creating an obstacle for not much (if anything) in the way of pay off. It won't happen. There's no point. Hopefully not.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 30, 2016 16:20:27 GMT
I think he'll be dropped.
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Post by mysteriojr on Jul 30, 2016 16:22:54 GMT
I think he'll be dropped. So Allen is bojans replacement then? 👎🏾
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Post by Pugsley on Jul 30, 2016 16:25:32 GMT
I think he'll be dropped. With Arnie resigning I think we'll still play 4-2-3-1 With a place for Bojan behind Berahino or Diouf. The worry is that Imbula and Allen behind the three aren't strong enough defensively. Whelan and Imbula weren't but Allen is a better player.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 30, 2016 16:25:46 GMT
I think he'll be dropped. So Allen is bojans replacement then? 👎🏾 No. Imbula will be. There's no way he's dropping Imbula. He just can't from a job security PoV. And if Allen and Imbula doesn't work then there's only person being dropped if we have Berahino too and that's Bojan. A whole load of ifs buts and maybes though!!
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Jul 30, 2016 16:26:13 GMT
I think he'll be dropped. So Allen is bojans replacement then? 👎🏾 That seems to be what they're saying, rather than the (far more likely) theory that he's Whelan's replacement!
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Post by mysteriojr on Jul 30, 2016 16:30:13 GMT
Be it 433 or 4231 Imbula can't replace Bojan.
It's either Allen-Whelan or Allen-Imbula.
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Post by stockportstokie on Jul 30, 2016 16:34:19 GMT
Is it not self explanatory? Berahino Arnie-----Bojan-----Shaq Allen Imbula
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 16:40:04 GMT
Is it not self explanatory? Berahino Arnie-----Bojan-----Shaq Allen Imbula That at home, against the top teams arguably Allen and Whelan with Imbula pushing on. Bojan as false 9 or out wide if other players are missing Ultimately it's a squad game so all bases need covering....
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jul 30, 2016 16:59:11 GMT
So Allen is bojans replacement then? 👎🏾 That seems to be what they're saying, rather than the (far more likely) theory that he's Whelan's replacement! Who's 'they?' I think he'll replace Whelan. My point was that you can't play a 4-3-3 with Bojan unless you're false 9ing it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 17:09:19 GMT
If Gianelli adds a bit more in the way of tracking back to his game, I feel that Allen - Imbula would be fine for a good amount of the games this season.
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Post by numpty40 on Jul 30, 2016 17:10:16 GMT
So Allen is bojans replacement then? 👎🏾 That seems to be what they're saying, rather than the (far more likely) theory that he's Whelan's replacement! I thought that was obvious from the day we signed him, I think some over analyse things
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Post by mrcoke on Jul 30, 2016 17:15:22 GMT
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Post by VolvicStokie on Jul 30, 2016 17:59:51 GMT
He'll be taking Whelans place.
Whelan is a legend, but he's been on borrowed time the last 12 months, fortunately he's played out of his skin for the most part of last season but in my mind, Hughes wanted an upgrade.
Allen can do everything what Whelan does but he'll also drive forward and set up attacks.
Whelan can't do that.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jul 30, 2016 18:15:18 GMT
1. Allen didn't ever play the 'Whelan role' at Liverpool or Swansea. 2. Imbula has shown absolutely no signs whatsoever that he's interested in defending, indeed Porto got rid of him after six months because he seemed unable to play a deeper role. So taking both of those things into consideration then I think the OP's question is perfectly valid. Can Imbula up his game in this regard? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see? Can Allen learn to play the Whelan role? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see. Might Hughes decided to even ditch (or alter) the Whelan role? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see. Might Hughes (at times) play Whelan and Allen together and one of Imbula and Bojan will miss out? We simply don't know, we'll have to wait and see. What we do know, is that Allen is not a straight like for like swap for Whelan at this point. What role did he play then? I have always thought of him as a near carbon copy of Whelan. Intelligent footballer who keeps things simple and plugs the gaps others leave behind in the process. He isn't a goal scorer, I've never seen him as being particularly creative so if he isn't a Whelan upgrade at some point, you've got me wondering what the hell he actually is. he played with Ledley in the defensive two in the Euros with Ramsey further forward and he didn't play number 10 for Liverpool under Klopp so not sure what else he would have been doing. Whelan is a slow CDM, who often freezes in possession, there were several shocking examples of this last year, and is the reason we can't play back to front with any pace or confidence . Imbula likes to play deep and so we will have two players in the space which is as much what the role is about today. more importantly with Allen's mobility we may be able to go and press occasionally something not possible with Whelan. Allen is going to start having cost £13m and so is Imbula which means it is Whelan or Bojan for the last slot
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2016 18:18:29 GMT
Is it only me that sees Allen as a niggly, dirty little ratter (in the best possible way...) in midfield that can more than play a bit?
I think he's the perfect replacement and evolution from Whelan, and more than capable of playing in that midfield with Imbula.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jul 30, 2016 18:20:52 GMT
Is it only me that sees Allen as a niggly, dirty little ratter (in the best possible way...) in midfield that can more than play a bit? I think he's the perfect replacement and evolution from Whelan, and more than capable of playing in that midfield with Imbula. That's how I feel as well. Don't know if he's a perfect fit as a replacement but he has the skillset that makes me think he could play that kind of role with more energy.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jul 30, 2016 18:24:30 GMT
You don't spend £31,000,000 on two central midfielder and not play them in central midfield. He that can't be mentioned spent 18m on two centre forwards that couldn't play together!
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Post by march4 on Jul 30, 2016 18:25:19 GMT
I think Allen will be first choice to partner Whelan in midfield.
Imbula will replace Ibby behind the main striker
Bodger will get more games as a 'false 9'
Arnie will play left flank
SJW and Shaq will battle it out for right flank (SJW will win that battle with ease)
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