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Post by thehoof on May 26, 2016 15:09:16 GMT
Pugsley, My brother is an Everton fan, and up until moving to Egypt was a regular at Goodison. He had to watch Everton's final games of the season via Al Jazeera or whatever, but he has seen more of Stones than you, Guardiola,or Mr.Hodgson- what is more he spends his hard earned cash to do so. His opinion is that Stones is not a Center Half, but should be in the Dier role, where he would live up to his potential. For every manager you have named, I could throw names at you that would indicate that they can be clueless when it comes to team selection. Normally I agree with most of your posts, but with this one, I think that over time you will be proved (along with Hodgson, Martinez and if he really is looking to recruit Stones,Guardiola)totally wrong. Good players make mistakes, but they don't make the same one consistently- if he is an international of any standing, he should have learned by now, yet he hasn't. Time will tell. No doubt he is a work in progress and is making silly errors but top clubs and managers want him - they must believe there is a player there. Indeed, he might be a defensive midfielder. To be honest I don't really care, I just find it a bit sad that we have football fans crucifying this young lad. I would doubt very much that your mate knows as much about football and footballers than Guardiola. Working for a geman company, lots of my colleagues believe that Guardiola knows less about players than Jupp Heynkes.Opinions eh?
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Post by Pugsley on May 26, 2016 15:27:28 GMT
Time will tell. No doubt he is a work in progress and is making silly errors but top clubs and managers want him - they must believe there is a player there. Indeed, he might be a defensive midfielder. To be honest I don't really care, I just find it a bit sad that we have football fans crucifying this young lad. I would doubt very much that your mate knows as much about football and footballers than Guardiola. Working for a geman company, lots of my colleagues believe that Guardiola knows less about players than Jupp Heynkes.Opinions eh? My guess is if he new half what Heynckes knows, he still knows a lot more than your mate!!!! I actually believe that Pep has got a massive job on at City and a lot to prove. It's all about opinions you're right.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 26, 2016 17:19:41 GMT
Pugsley, My brother is an Everton fan, and up until moving to Egypt was a regular at Goodison. He had to watch Everton's final games of the season via Al Jazeera or whatever, but he has seen more of Stones than you, Guardiola,or Mr.Hodgson- what is more he spends his hard earned cash to do so. His opinion is that Stones is not a Center Half, but should be in the Dier role, where he would live up to his potential. For every manager you have named, I could throw names at you that would indicate that they can be clueless when it comes to team selection. Normally I agree with most of your posts, but with this one, I think that over time you will be proved (along with Hodgson, Martinez and if he really is looking to recruit Stones,Guardiola)totally wrong. Good players make mistakes, but they don't make the same one consistently- if he is an international of any standing, he should have learned by now, yet he hasn't. Time will tell. No doubt he is a work in progress and is making silly errors but top clubs and managers want him - they must believe there is a player there. Indeed, he might be a defensive midfielder. To be honest I don't really care, I just find it a bit sad that we have football fans crucifying this young lad. I would doubt very much that your mate knows as much about football and footballers than Guardiola. There might be a decent player in there but there definitely isn't a decent defender in there at the moment. "crucifying this young lad"? He's performed terribly this season and shouldn't be within a country mile of the England squad. That he's likely to actually get game time in the Euros - and as someone who gives a shit about England, that makes me mightily pissed off. Should I just not care that Roy and the pseudo intellectuals in the media who swoon whenever a defender doesn't just clear it to row Z, look as though they could put a serious dent in any chance we have this summer. Whatever chance Stones has to for fill his longterm potential could be seriously damaged too if he does one of his trademark fuck ups that costs us progression. The media, pundits and public will destroy him. He really needs protecting and coaching. With lots of coaching. Maybe a loan to WBA would help him to develop?
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Post by Laughing Gravy on May 26, 2016 17:36:15 GMT
To be honest I can't get too worked up about Stones. He doesn't and is never likely to play for Stoke and any team he does play for gives us a better chance of beating them. In relation to England he'll either bomb and get fucked off or he'll have a blinder and we'll do well. To be honest he fits in perfectly in that bag of wank defence Hodgson's taking so I'm not really arsed either way.
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on May 26, 2016 17:55:29 GMT
Well seems Cahill is out tomorrow, maybe. Stone and Smalling or Dier and Smalling? No doubt either will look great against Australia.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 26, 2016 18:49:15 GMT
Well seems Cahill is out tomorrow, maybe. Stone and Smalling or Dier and Smalling? No doubt either will look great against Australia. Roy's selection already completely fucking discredited.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on May 26, 2016 18:51:58 GMT
Time will tell. No doubt he is a work in progress and is making silly errors but top clubs and managers want him - they must believe there is a player there. Indeed, he might be a defensive midfielder. To be honest I don't really care, I just find it a bit sad that we have football fans crucifying this young lad. I would doubt very much that your mate knows as much about football and footballers than Guardiola. Working for a geman company, lots of my colleagues believe that Guardiola knows less about players than Jupp Heynkes.Opinions eh? Being a Bayern boy (before I found Stoke) I'd give my right hand to have Jupp back at FCB... Pep did not sit well with a number of Bayern fans, including myself, despite his relative success and never bought into what makes Bayern tick as a club including its family. "We" lost the grit behind the flair... Manchester City will make or break him.
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Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on May 26, 2016 18:57:00 GMT
Well seems Cahill is out tomorrow, maybe. Stone and Smalling or Dier and Smalling? No doubt either will look great against Australia. Is Cahill injured?? I'm surprised that he is not sticking in Cahill and Smalling together? I believe that is your strongest pairing at the back and Roy should now be getting them as much game time together as possible and reinforce their understanding of each other's way of playing during a match situation. By all means bring Stones on as a substitute after 60 mins or so... But you should be cementing your main team now... It'll be interesting to see who Löw plays tomorrow as the back 4...
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on May 26, 2016 19:22:03 GMT
Well seems Cahill is out tomorrow, maybe. Stone and Smalling or Dier and Smalling? No doubt either will look great against Australia. Is Cahill injured?? I'm surprised that he is not sticking in Cahill and Smalling together? I believe that is your strongest pairing at the back and Roy should now be getting them as much game time together as possible and reinforce their understanding of each other's way of playing during a match situation. By all means bring Stones on as a substitute after 60 mins or so... But you should be cementing your main team now... It'll be interesting to see who Löw plays tomorrow as the back 4... "Cahill's injury is potentially even more problematic, since only three centre-backs were named in Hodgson's 26-man provisional squad for the tournament. However, with the official UEFA squad-naming deadline not until May 31 Hodgson could yet look outside the original 26 for a replacement for the Chelsea defender, with Everton's Phil Jagielka the likely beneficiary." Maybe that's why Ryan was at the Etihad! Defending doesn't matter anyway, it's the forwards that matter, as we errrrrmmm, showed this season!! If England finish 9th that's a success!
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Post by numpty40 on May 26, 2016 19:34:39 GMT
I'm clearly living in a parallel universe! www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/05/24/jose-mourinho-faces-first-man-utd-battle-for-john-stones-and-nem/Jose Mourinho faces a battle to avoid an early blow in the transfer market as Manchester United’s new manager with Manchester City and Barcelona emerging as favourites to sign John Stones.
City and Barcelona have reaffirmed their interest in Stones over the past week, and both clubs plan to submit bids to Everton before the start of the European Championships – leaving Mourinho with a lot of ground to make up in the chase for the 21-year-old.
The fact City and Barca have stolen a march on United will not put off Mourinho, but the Portuguese will need to call on all his powers of persuasion to sway the race for Stones in his favour.
City manager Pep Guardiola wants to pair Stones with Aymeric Laporte in a new-look partnership, while Barca see him as the best defensive prospect in European football and believe he is ideally suited to La Liga. I think he is absolutely class and will be one of the best in the world. Martinez would ruin any defender. If as a fan of football all you want your defender to do is defend and clear his lines then he won't be your cup of tea. But if you enjoy a ball playing center half in the Moore, Beckenbaur, Ramos, Pique mold then he is a joy to watch. He is very un-English in many ways but if you put him in a good team he would look even better. In 2-3 years he will walk into any team in word football. In a defensive two having a ball player and a blocker is a sound base. The world class defenders you have named all have something in common, they are natural defenders. They can read games and first and foremost they are defenders but defenders who are/were comfortable on the ball. Stones is certainly comfortable on the ball but is totally oblivious to threats and danger around him and gets caught out time and time again. I don't think that defensive instinct can be coached into a player.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 26, 2016 19:36:34 GMT
Is Cahill injured?? I'm surprised that he is not sticking in Cahill and Smalling together? I believe that is your strongest pairing at the back and Roy should now be getting them as much game time together as possible and reinforce their understanding of each other's way of playing during a match situation. By all means bring Stones on as a substitute after 60 mins or so... But you should be cementing your main team now... It'll be interesting to see who Löw plays tomorrow as the back 4... "Cahill's injury is potentially even more problematic, since only three centre-backs were named in Hodgson's 26-man provisional squad for the tournament. However, with the official UEFA squad-naming deadline not until May 31 Hodgson could yet look outside the original 26 for a replacement for the Chelsea defender, with Everton's Phil Jagielka the likely beneficiary." Maybe that's why Ryan was at the Etihad! Defending doesn't matter anyway, it's the forwards that matter, as we errrrrmmm, showed this season!! If England finish 9th that's a success! It is absolutely and completely fucking barmy to even consider taking only 3 specialised centre halves to a tournament. Reckless and idiotic. Can someone tell me when this thinking was allowed to even be considered, because I think I missed that stupidity.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 26, 2016 19:40:45 GMT
I think he is absolutely class and will be one of the best in the world. Martinez would ruin any defender. If as a fan of football all you want your defender to do is defend and clear his lines then he won't be your cup of tea. But if you enjoy a ball playing center half in the Moore, Beckenbaur, Ramos, Pique mold then he is a joy to watch. He is very un-English in many ways but if you put him in a good team he would look even better. In 2-3 years he will walk into any team in word football. In a defensive two having a ball player and a blocker is a sound base. The world class defenders you have named all have something in common, they are natural defenders. They can read games and first and foremost they are defenders but defenders who are/were comfortable on the ball. Stones is certainly comfortable on the ball but is totally oblivious to threats and danger around him and gets caught out time and time again. I don't think that defensive instinct can be coached into a player. Yep totally agree. Maybe we should take one of the youngsters like Shenton and start playing him at the back? He won't have the foggiest about how to defend but I hazard a bet if the media see how comfortable he is on the ball that we should be able to flog him for £30 or £40 million by January.
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2016 6:12:11 GMT
"Cahill's injury is potentially even more problematic, since only three centre-backs were named in Hodgson's 26-man provisional squad for the tournament. However, with the official UEFA squad-naming deadline not until May 31 Hodgson could yet look outside the original 26 for a replacement for the Chelsea defender, with Everton's Phil Jagielka the likely beneficiary." Maybe that's why Ryan was at the Etihad! Defending doesn't matter anyway, it's the forwards that matter, as we errrrrmmm, showed this season!! If England finish 9th that's a success! It is absolutely and completely fucking barmy to even consider taking only 3 specialised centre halves to a tournament. Reckless and idiotic. Can someone tell me when this thinking was allowed to even be considered, because I think I missed that stupidity. This seems the main issue to me. Stones might be in a good place in a couple of years time if he takes on board what the Everton / England fans and a minority of pundits say and stops being so reckless in possession. Even then it'd still be madness to only pick 3 centrebacks. We are only 2 injuries away from a young player who was part of Everton's porous defence lining up next to a player who's spent all season in midfield making up our central defence. If we weren't in that position then taking Stones would not be getting anywhere near this attention. As it is, the chances of us going out because our centre back thinks he is Zidane are depressingly high.
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Post by numpty40 on May 27, 2016 21:05:40 GMT
Credit where it's due, he was MOM tonight.
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Post by warringtonstokie on May 27, 2016 21:10:21 GMT
Credit where it's due, he was MOM tonight. We only played Australia, I'd struggle to name any of their players.
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Post by stoneroses on May 27, 2016 21:13:39 GMT
Yeah played very well, disappointed with the performances in front of him, i still think we have a lot more questions than answers.
I would imagine we will be seeing that defensive partnership every week come the middle of August which i think has a great blend in terms of styles.
Good for England and unfortunately good for Utd.
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Post by crapslinger on May 27, 2016 21:29:25 GMT
Credit where it's due, he was MOM tonight. We only played Australia, I'd struggle to name any of their players. Apart from the one we tried to sign of course
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Post by stoneroses on May 27, 2016 21:35:27 GMT
Credit where it's due, he was MOM tonight. We only played Australia, I'd struggle to name any of their players. Judging a players performance based on how many players you personally can name in the oppositions is as probably as useful as watching the match with your eyes closed! Australia are not the best team but our inability to keep the ball meant we had to defend much more than we would have liked, he did that very well, one block in particular was proper defending. As always immaculate with the ball.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 27, 2016 22:17:33 GMT
We only played Australia, I'd struggle to name any of their players. Judging a players performance based on how many players you personally can name in the oppositions is as probably as useful as watching the match with your eyes closed! Australia are not the best team but our inability to keep the ball meant we had to defend much more than we would have liked, he did that very well, one block in particular was proper defending. As always immaculate with the ball. As always? His ball playing is what gets him into half of the messes he gets into.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 27, 2016 22:20:36 GMT
We only played Australia, I'd struggle to name any of their players. Judging a players performance based on how many players you personally can name in the oppositions is as probably as useful as watching the match with your eyes closed! Australia are not the best team but our inability to keep the ball meant we had to defend much more than we would have liked, he did that very well, one block in particular was proper defending. As always immaculate with the ball. He played well tonight but Stones: "As always immaculate with the ball"???? What about all the times he gives the ball away and loses it when trying to be clever? The problem is he's not a very good defender and nowhere near as good as he thinks he is with the ball. Apart from that he's a cracking footballer.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on May 27, 2016 22:23:19 GMT
I was very impressed with him. Not seen much of him generally but clearly has massive potential
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Post by warringtonstokie on May 27, 2016 23:06:42 GMT
We only played Australia, I'd struggle to name any of their players. Judging a players performance based on how many players you personally can name in the oppositions is as probably as useful as watching the match with your eyes closed! Australia are not the best team but our inability to keep the ball meant we had to defend much more than we would have liked, he did that very well, one block in particular was proper defending. As always immaculate with the ball. Point is I can't name one player so they can't be that impressive, meaning that it's impossible to judge how good he is against a load of nobodies from Australia.
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Post by 2004 on May 28, 2016 8:55:27 GMT
What was more telling for me was how uncomfortable both Smalling and Dier looked alongside him. Worrying that Tydsley and Hoddle were bumming him every 2 seconds on commentary.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 28, 2016 9:19:06 GMT
What was more telling for me was how uncomfortable both Smalling and Dier looked alongside him. Worrying that Tydsley and Hoddle were bumming him every 2 seconds on commentary. It was getting embarrassing how much smoke they were blowing up his arse. He's gone one game without completely cocking it up against pretty poor opposition, and Hoddle was telling us how it demonstrates how he's learning.
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Post by chiefdelilah on May 28, 2016 9:30:33 GMT
What was more telling for me was how uncomfortable both Smalling and Dier looked alongside him. Worrying that Tydsley and Hoddle were bumming him every 2 seconds on commentary. It was getting embarrassing how much smoke they were blowing up his arse. He's gone one game without completely cocking it up against pretty poor opposition, and Hoddle was telling us how it demonstrates how he's learning. What worried me is how flighty Smalling, supposedly 'the good one' was against modest opposition.
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Post by sheikhmomo on May 28, 2016 9:40:37 GMT
It's a real shame, at a time when it looks like we could trouble any side going forward it's not overstating the fact in the least to describe us as absolutely fucking terrible at the back. I strongly fancy us to win all three group games, despatch a third place team in the last 16 and then get walloped the minute we face a decent side.
Hopefully, that will spell the end for Roy.
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Post by Trouserdog on May 28, 2016 9:53:27 GMT
It's a real shame, at a time when it looks like we could trouble any side going forward it's not overstating the fact in the least to describe us as absolutely fucking terrible at the back. I strongly fancy us to win all three group games, despatch a third place team in the last 16 and then get walloped the minute we face a decent side. Hopefully, that will spell the end for Roy. Virtually word-for-word what I was saying to one of my mates the other day. We'll probably cock it up against Wales but should still win the group. I dread to think what any good side will do to that defence though; we'll probably have a taste of it against Portugal next Thursday.
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Post by roylandstoke on May 28, 2016 9:56:03 GMT
Credit where it's due, he was MOM tonight. I thought he was poor. His positional play was awful. He was constantly drawn out of the centre. At times he he seems to be chasing after the ball with little regard to where the opposition strikers are, or to where midfield runners from deep positions may end up. If Cahill or Smalling get injured I suspect England's defence will be as exposed as Everton's.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2016 9:57:00 GMT
The media hype around him is actually laughable. MOTD were actually editing their highlights to show one bit of "classy" defending per programme from Stones towards the end of the season.
The ball gets played to him in acres of space, he does a little Cruyff turn under zero pressure, lays it off and dicks like Clive Tyldesly start creaming their pants.....
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Post by podolipotter on May 28, 2016 14:12:55 GMT
Before last night, I had never rated Stones as a Centre Back. After last night, I still don't but his assured performance reminded me very much of Duncan Edwards and even Franz Beckenbaur. He will make a brilliant surging midfielder but should never be played at centre back for England again. He would be a more strong and creative idea for midfield than either Lallana or wee willie Wilshire, so I do hope to see him in this role very soon. Centre back no, but a must for midfield.
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