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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 22:44:30 GMT
Just watching MOTD and how shit is John Stones.
Basic defending, play the way you are facing FFS.
If he is the future, England really are fucked.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 22:49:15 GMT
Potentially brilliant player who looks woeful as he is playing under a manager that just doesn't know how to set a team up to be defensively strong, or doesn't know how to coach defenders.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 22:52:00 GMT
Potentially brilliant player who looks woeful as he is playing under a manager that just doesn't know how to set a team up to be defensively strong, or doesn't know how to coach defenders. Definitely Martinez's fault. His Pre match team talk was "if in doubt, don't kick it out, play a really dodgy back pass to your keeper with 30 seconds left til half time" Rolls off the tongue
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 22:55:10 GMT
Potentially brilliant player who looks woeful as he is playing under a manager that just doesn't know how to set a team up to be defensively strong, or doesn't know how to coach defenders. Definitely Martinez's fault. His Pre match team talk was "if in doubt, don't kick it out, play a really dodgy back pass to your keeper with 30 seconds left til half time" Rolls off the tongue Failed sarcasm because he does this time and time again. If he did this under Alex Ferguson, the first time it happened he would've got grilled and it wouldn't happen again. With Stones it is becoming a horrible trait. So yes, it is Martinez's fault.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 22:57:50 GMT
Definitely Martinez's fault. His Pre match team talk was "if in doubt, don't kick it out, play a really dodgy back pass to your keeper with 30 seconds left til half time" Rolls off the tongue Failed sarcasm because he does this time and time again. If he did this under Alex Ferguson, the first time it happened he would've got grilled and it wouldn't happen again. With Stones it is becoming a horrible trait. So yes, it is Martinez's fault. So because Stones does something more than once you guess it's because he hasn't been told off by Martinez? He's a Premier League footballer earning a huge amount of money, not a child with s learning disability
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 23:18:50 GMT
Failed sarcasm because he does this time and time again. If he did this under Alex Ferguson, the first time it happened he would've got grilled and it wouldn't happen again. With Stones it is becoming a horrible trait. So yes, it is Martinez's fault. So because Stones does something more than once you guess it's because he hasn't been told off by Martinez? He's a Premier League footballer earning a huge amount of money, not a child with s learning disability Couldn't disagree more with your summation that Stones if fully to blame for the mistakes he's making. edit: I can see why my first reply in this thread didn't quite convey the message I was trying to get across, basically, I feel like Martinez is playing a system that relies on defenders bringing the ball out from the back, Stones is clearly a potentially brilliant ball playing defender but, IMO, Martinez is making a mistake in failing to recognise that a BPD is a defender first and a BP second, I think it's extremely likely he is encouraging Stones to take these risks, directly or indirectly by not coming down hard on the lad when he fucks up, and I think that is daft because if Martinez is so keen on Stones becoming a great ball player then he should stick the lad into DM, not to mention that they have a top-class striker who can play as a target man so it's not even essential that they always bring the ball out they always have the option of hoofing if there is pressure in defence and some of those balls will spark attacks as a result of Lukaku's physical prowess
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Post by ukcstokie on Apr 9, 2016 23:32:22 GMT
I keep hearing that he's young and has to learn:
1. That he keeps on making the same mistakes again and again show's he's not learning.
2. The mistakes he's making should have be coached out of him in primary school. Trying to beat a forward when you're the last defender (that cost us a goal in his last England outing) shouldn't be seen at any level in senior football. Let alone professional football. That he continues to make those makes me think he's either too arrogant or not bright enough.
3. That many pundits, and the gormless England manager have him anywhere near the England squad - at the moment - is scandalous.
4. He may turn into a great footballer. Maybe even a great defender, but that is probably years away.
5. I'm not knocking him because he plays for England, or that he may keep Ryan out of the squad, but because he's no bloody good at defending at the moment.
6. If he does need time to learn how to defend, playing at the European Championships isn't the right place to do it.
7. That even Martinez has dropped him for defending poorly, yes Martinez. Just ponder that. Martinez. Shows he is a really crap defender.
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Post by roylandstoke on Apr 10, 2016 0:54:12 GMT
At the moment he is a liability to any team he plays for.
He can not defend.
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Post by CalgaryPotter on Apr 10, 2016 2:22:48 GMT
An Everton friend of mine thinks he as an absolute liability and can't believe they didn't cash in on the Chelsea offer. He expects his value to plummet after the Euros when he is shown up for the useless defender he is.
Pundits have been wanking on about him continuously but I think some are starting to turn on him. Of course, not easy for these gurus to admit they have been talking shit
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bigsalif
Academy Starlet
The good old days!
Posts: 167
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Post by bigsalif on Apr 10, 2016 9:36:44 GMT
He was class until he was linked to a big money move, now he's wank.
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Post by Kjones9 on Apr 10, 2016 9:39:11 GMT
He was class until he was linked to a big money move, now he's wank. He wasn't class though. That's just what the press wanted you to believe.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Apr 10, 2016 9:40:17 GMT
He's not a centre back.
With how he plays he's more suited to midfield, but we already have a quality defensive mid in Eric Dier, so I fail to see the point of him in the England squad at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 9:42:20 GMT
I think hes regressed since moving from Barnsley
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 10, 2016 9:50:47 GMT
So because Stones does something more than once you guess it's because he hasn't been told off by Martinez? He's a Premier League footballer earning a huge amount of money, not a child with s learning disability Couldn't disagree more with your summation that Stones if fully to blame for the mistakes he's making. edit: I can see why my first reply in this thread didn't quite convey the message I was trying to get across, basically, I feel like Martinez is playing a system that relies on defenders bringing the ball out from the back, Stones is clearly a potentially brilliant ball playing defender but, IMO, Martinez is making a mistake in failing to recognise that a BPD is a defender first and a BP second, I think it's extremely likely he is encouraging Stones to take these risks, directly or indirectly by not coming down hard on the lad when he fucks up, and I think that is daft because if Martinez is so keen on Stones becoming a great ball player then he should stick the lad into DM, not to mention that they have a top-class striker who can play as a target man so it's not even essential that they always bring the ball out they always have the option of hoofing if there is pressure in defence and some of those balls will spark attacks as a result of Lukaku's physical prowess Spot on a defenders main priority is to defend, playing the ball out from the back is a bonus not a necessity even in the" modern game", what use is scoring goals if your defenders can not defend your lead.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 9:55:45 GMT
Observation
Interesting parallels at Stoke
putting the personal aspects aside
Huth is a defender pure and simple - Woolshied presumably seen as an upgrade because:-
a) hes younger and
b) more of a 'footballing' centre half
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Post by roostershair on Apr 10, 2016 9:59:53 GMT
The basic "If in doubt, kick it out." seems to have gone over the young mans head. He needs coaching with Pulis
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Post by ukcstokie on Apr 10, 2016 10:00:01 GMT
Observation Interesting parallels at Stoke putting the personal aspects aside Huth is a defender pure and simple - Woolshied presumably seen as an upgrade because:- a) hes younger and b) more of a 'footballing' centre half Wooly can defend though. Huth was also injured for a large part of his last two seasons with us.
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Post by ethers26 on Apr 10, 2016 10:01:15 GMT
Just reading his bio on Everton's site:
"He then impressed under Roberto Martinez during pre-season ahead of the 2013/14 campaign, scoring an impudent chipped penalty in the shootout win over Juventus" .......
His reaction to Clattenburg after he dived in on Arnie last minute frustrated me too. If I was a young lad in a premier league game, 1) I wouldn't go diving in, and 2) I wouldn't start acting the big man (on his own, by the way, as everyone else knew it was a pen) to the ref. He then did exactly the same a month or so later.
The boy reeks of arrogance. He needs knocking down a peg or two, but his very costly mistakes don't seem to be doing the trick, nor him being dropped to the bench.
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Post by harryburrows on Apr 10, 2016 10:07:51 GMT
An Everton friend of mine thinks he as an absolute liability and can't believe they didn't cash in on the Chelsea offer. He expects his value to plummet after the Euros when he is shown up for the useless defender he is. Pundits have been wanking on about him continuously but I think some are starting to turn on him. Of course, not easy for these gurus to admit they have been talking shit Merson slaughtered him a few weeks ago on soccer Saturday
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Post by ukcstokie on Apr 10, 2016 10:24:44 GMT
An Everton friend of mine thinks he as an absolute liability and can't believe they didn't cash in on the Chelsea offer. He expects his value to plummet after the Euros when he is shown up for the useless defender he is. Pundits have been wanking on about him continuously but I think some are starting to turn on him. Of course, not easy for these gurus to admit they have been talking shit Mersin slaughtered him a few weeks ago on soccer Saturday Hoddle and Dixon both had them in their starting 11 for the Euros - that after minutes before see him cost a goal by beating a forward when last man. A trick that would get you a bollicking in an under 11's game even if you did get away with it.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 10, 2016 10:27:27 GMT
The alarm bells should have been ringing for a lot of people when Moses beat him in the air and scored that header against them.
He can't do the basics of defending.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Apr 10, 2016 10:34:37 GMT
I'm still shocked they haven't tried him in front of the back 4 yet, even then I think he would be a disaster but wouldn't be as much of a liability as he is right now.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Apr 10, 2016 10:35:31 GMT
He's basically a shit David Luiz.. and that's saying something.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 10, 2016 10:37:14 GMT
I'm still shocked they haven't tried him in front of the back 4 yet, even then I think he would be a disaster but wouldn't be as much of a liability as he is right now. It'd make sense for Everton but then Martinez would have to man up and admit defeat. He started at right back for Barnsley and about the only good game I've seen him play was at right back. I think that should be an option too.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Apr 10, 2016 10:37:57 GMT
The alarm bells should have been ringing for a lot of people when Moses beat him in the air and scored that header against them. He can't do the basics of defending. This. Some people seem to think any defender who can play a bit isn't a centre back and needs to be fast-tracked into midfield and not get ideas above his station. That isn't the issue - a ball-playing centre back is a great thing to have at your disposal. But they have to be able to actually defend. Stone's decision-making is just awful and he clearly isn't getting the coaching he needs to address that at the moment. I think he'll go on to be an excellent central defender for club and country but he's a long way from that at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2016 10:49:56 GMT
The media have hyped him up as the 'next big thing' and some have fallen for it.
The idea that his mistakes are somehow Martinez's fault is a joke.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 10, 2016 10:50:08 GMT
The alarm bells should have been ringing for a lot of people when Moses beat him in the air and scored that header against them. He can't do the basics of defending. This. Some people seem to think any defender who can play a bit isn't a centre back and needs to be fast-tracked into midfield and not get ideas above his station. That isn't the issue - a ball-playing centre back is a great thing to have at your disposal. But they have to be able to actually defend. Stone's decision-making is just awful and he clearly isn't getting the coaching he needs to address that at the moment. I think he'll go on to be an excellent central defender for club and country but he's a long way from that at the moment. I'm really not sure he will. The coaching quite clearly isn't there but how stupid must he be to not realise and take matters into his own hands? It's not like the mistakes he makes are little ones. He's been big daft errors since he got in the Everton side. And is there no one close to him to be honest? He has been let down by Martinez but I'm astounded he hadnt taken it upon himself to actively change and play a simpler passing game. He definitely shouldn't be going the Euros and I think he needs a loan to the Championship. He's getting hammered at the minute and rightly so but its not going to help.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Apr 10, 2016 10:50:12 GMT
Not in the same class as Wolly and becer will be. Be gone from there in the summer and a swaps player for a few years after that the White Wilfred Bony or Fabian delph .
More concerning is if Everton get someone who spends the money wisely but rear squad without Lukaku is going to require some overhaul .
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Post by charlesjefferson on Apr 10, 2016 11:17:23 GMT
He has the potential to one day be as good as Chris Smalling or dare I say it, Phil Jones.
Now there's a mouth-watering prospect if ever there was one.
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Post by march4 on Apr 10, 2016 11:38:52 GMT
I don't blame the player, I blame his manager.
Surely Martinez will be gone by the end of the season and no other club will employ him.
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