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Post by winston on Jan 28, 2016 11:44:09 GMT
Maybe we will not moan as much about the Brit anymore,I was lucky and arrived earlier in the day,the buses turning up late did not help but staying in the pub till 7.30 did not help some people. We ate in town, got to the ground 50 minutes before kick-off and asked if they were serving beer in the ground. As we were told they were, we went in rather than going elsewhere. In the ground the stewards had told the staff to not serve anymore beer because we were too loud. Unbelievable! No wonder people tip up at the last minute.
Anyway, I was chatting to one of the decent stewards when his "team leader" came over to him and told him they were going to throw a few out to calm it down! All that was happening was the usual bouncing.
We got back to Lime St 5 minutes before the last train home so I guess that is part of the thinking around delaying kick-off. If there was any thinking
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2016 11:47:33 GMT
I have spoken to our colleagues in the FSF office, and they have agreed to extract the responses on this game on the FSF away fans survey as a one off to be used to take up the issues. Please complete by the end of Monday, and they will then do it. www.surveymonkey.com/r/away-fans-2015-16Ideally, that should be in addition to, not instead of, making the direct complaints to the people outlined in posts above. Incidentally, when Everton FC had similar problems, the Spirit of Shankly, the main Liverpool fans group, closely worked with the Blue Union, a main Everton group in taking up the issues with the club. One of the obvious questions now is, why have similar problems happened again ? Fans should be working together in this way, but IMHO such an approach is not facilitated by some of the generalised abuse against Liverpool fans which has appeared on here, or by bringing Hillsborough into it.
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Post by riproaring on Jan 28, 2016 11:51:37 GMT
it was badly organised, I just couldn't see how there was such a build up of people outside. I was late because I forgot my ticket and had to return home. Having said that I arrived outside my turnstile at 7.50 and it was kaos. If Liverpool can't get that right after their history it shows a total lack of regard for football supporters in general. We sold our souls to Murdoch years ago and now the Terrace fan is a peripheral in football
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Post by stantheman on Jan 28, 2016 12:07:22 GMT
I have spoken to our colleagues in the FSF office, and they have agreed to extract the responses on this game on the FSF away fans survey as a one off to be used to take up the issues. Please complete by the end of Monday, and they will then do it. www.surveymonkey.com/r/away-fans-2015-16Ideally, that should be in addition to, not instead of, making the direct complaints to the people outlined in posts above. Incidentally, when Everton FC had similar problems, the Spirit of Shankly, the main Liverpool fans group, closely worked with the Blue Union, a main Everton group in taking up the issues with the club. One of the obvious questions now is, why have similar problems happened again ? Fans should be working together in this way, but IMHO such an approach is not facilitated by some of the generalised abuse against Liverpool fans which has appeared on here, or by bringing Hillsborough into it. Malcolm, The major issue is that surely the Merseyside Police force, helicopter and all, must have realised by 7.15 that none of the official coaches had arrived, and that a large amount of people would all turn up at once, leading to crowd issues? They have the ultimate power to delay a football match, not the Club, and certainly not a TV company. A 15 minute delay to the kick off time would have made matters a lot less chaotic outside the ground.
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Post by BristolMick on Jan 28, 2016 12:36:55 GMT
The simple solution that would of avoided all this was for LFC to have put the kick off back to allow all the Stoke fans to get in however we all know why this did not and could not happen, football sold its soul to television a long time ago and now we fans are paying a heavy price in more ways than one ! That game was televised to around 20 countries there is no way the ko was ever getting put back I'm afraid when you look at the big picture the inconvenience and potential dangers to a couple of thousand away fans counts for a big fat fuck all I fear you are right, but the question should be firmly asked It absolutely needs to be asked Malcolm and I know you don't want to bring Hillsbough into this but we do know that if the kick off of that game had been put back the tragedy might not have happened. We need to know IF the police requested a delay, if not why not, if they did why wasn't it delayed? As Staffs Villa says above we know as paying punters we are last in the considerations but we need to get them to say that. They need to be forced into a corner where they admit that the requirements of live TV are put ahead of any public safety concerns. Hillsbough is relevant here! BM
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Post by The Stubborn Optimist on Jan 28, 2016 13:47:27 GMT
I too missed the first 20 minutes, I spent the rest of the game standing in the gangway, along with lots of other Stoke fans who couldn't get to their seats.
I acknowledge that some would suggest concerns about events on Tuesday should be passed on to the FSF, SLO (?), LFC, SCFC and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all. However, call me Mr. Cynic, but I suspect it won't make one jot of difference. My suspicions are reinforced by an earlier post on this thread that a game v Everton was equally shambolic. Furthermore both Liverpool and Everton supporters bodies have got together to take up the issue with the club. No doubt agendas were drawn up, meetings held, minutes produced, joint statements issued, action promised, steps taken to avoid repetition, blah, blah, blah. So, on the evidence of Tuesday night's events, what was the outcome of all this well intentioned activity? In a word,nowt. The words "pissing" and "wind" spring to mind.
To me Anfield is simply a metaphor for the city of Liverpool. It's tired, run-down, passed - its- sell- by - date, living on past glories and a place where almost nothing, nor anyone, seems to work. A shit hole.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2016 14:44:19 GMT
I have spoken to our colleagues in the FSF office, and they have agreed to extract the responses on this game on the FSF away fans survey as a one off to be used to take up the issues. Please complete by the end of Monday, and they will then do it. www.surveymonkey.com/r/away-fans-2015-16Ideally, that should be in addition to, not instead of, making the direct complaints to the people outlined in posts above. Incidentally, when Everton FC had similar problems, the Spirit of Shankly, the main Liverpool fans group, closely worked with the Blue Union, a main Everton group in taking up the issues with the club. One of the obvious questions now is, why have similar problems happened again ? Fans should be working together in this way, but IMHO such an approach is not facilitated by some of the generalised abuse against Liverpool fans which has appeared on here, or by bringing Hillsborough into it. Malcolm, The major issue is that surely the Merseyside Police force, helicopter and all, must have realised by 7.15 that none of the official coaches had arrived, and that a large amount of people would all turn up at once, leading to crowd issues? They have the ultimate power to delay a football match, not the Club, and certainly not a TV company. A 15 minute delay to the kick off time would have made matters a lot less chaotic outside the ground. I fully agree that this is one of the questions which must be explored
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2016 14:45:35 GMT
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2016 15:00:25 GMT
I have now passed the baton to the FSF caseworker, Amanda Jacks, who was also involved in the discussions after the problems Everton had. Please copy Amanda into anything you send in to either club or anyone else info@fsf.org.uk
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2016 15:06:24 GMT
Imagine if we win at Palace and then for the 5th and 6th rounds we're drawn (and win) at home ... the club will be paying for everybody's travel to Wembley!
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Post by stokiejohnss on Jan 28, 2016 15:14:38 GMT
We arrived at the ground at 7.20/25 and our gate had 2 turnstiles one for ladies only , this queue had 6/7 in it while the mens had well over 100 and increasing ! A policeman on a horse kept us up against the wall with stewards making cursory searches while trying to keep men from getting into the ladies queue which may as well not have been open. It was chaos and police and stewards showed little interest in keeping order. With Hillsborough still very much in the news you really would think that of all clubs Liverpool would have proper organization for fans entering and inside the ground. But apparently they even allow their own supporters to stand up ? This is the first time I've been to Anfield in over 30 years ( I went many times in the 70's and early 80's) and is the only time I had problems both inside and outside the ground due to lack of proper organisation by those whose job it was.
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Post by jpm64 on Jan 28, 2016 18:11:11 GMT
Malcolm, I have always had the utmost respect for you and the work the FSF have done in helping highlight the failings which led to the awful tragedy at Hillsborough and the fact that the fans were in no way to blame However I think your comments on this issue are unfair and you clearly did not witness what went on before Tuesday's game. I was there with my teenage son and daughter and the scenes were frankly appalling and my kids and many others were distressed and genuinely frightened. I have no doubt that had someone fallen in that crush we would have been looking at a potential fatality. I know the coaches arrived late and that is an issue for Stoke to look at but the crowd management was shambolic and when everyone heard that the game had kicked off on time it led to more anger and pushing and shoving. There was no sign of any organisation and no announcements made. People were just left to fend for themselves !! Once in the ground ( 20 mins after kick off ) I complained to a steward and said that in light of what LFC had gone through in the past I would have expected more sensitivity towards situations like this.... At this point he threatened to eject me ! We then had the announcement to Stoke fans over the tannoy I honestly thought it was going to be an apology but NO we were being told to sit down ( whilst the whole of the Kop stood !!! ) So I think it is perfectly reasonable to draw comparisons with what happened 27 years ago and not to do so would be wrong. I think rather than minimising what happened on Tuesday you should be leading the calls for a full apology from LFC for their negligence and aggressive attitudes of stewards for daring to be critical of them. To reassure you, I am absolutely not minimising what happened. I have encouraged people above to report their experiences outside the ground to Stoke city, the FSF and the Supporters council. It is clear from what I've read that something went seriously wrong, and that should be investigated, and acted upon. Similarly if there are complaints about stewards inside the ground. My main point on Hillsborough was that you can't say it's disrespectful to those who died for the Kop to stand without also saying it's disrespectful for Stoke City fans, and those of any club, to do so. But I don't think it is disrespectful. And I don't think it's helpful to bring Hillsborough into it because it's at Anfield. Safety of fans is very important at all grounds. No more nor no less so at Liverpool than any other ground, just because it was their fans involved in a tragedy at a different ground 27 years ago. The sit down announcement was of course absurd, and I agree could be provocative given the failure to manage the situation by the club. Clubs do this, knowing it will be completely ineffective, to cover their backs with the local licensing authority. What you may not know is that three years ago a Stoke fan formally complained to the LFC and Liverpool City Council about the failure of LFC to make all the Stoke fans sit down. The announcer did say "following complaints from your own supporters". If that's true, because of previous experience they may well be particularly sensitive about that possibility (for all I know it might be the same person who complained). Modern PA systems do enable differentiation between different parts of the ground, so it is possible there may have been an announcement on the Kop also. I know that in the past LFC have made attempts to enforce sitting on the Kop. Thanks Malcolm I will certainly be writing to LFC and will copy the FSF in as you suggest
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Post by bathstoke on Jan 28, 2016 18:53:13 GMT
In the ground the stewards had told the staff to not serve anymore beer because we were too loud. Unbelievable! No wonder people tip up at the last minute. [/p]
Anyway, I was chatting to one of the decent stewards when his "team leader" came over to him and told him they were going to throw a few out to calm it down! All that was happening was the usual bouncing.
[/quote] I may not agree with their bouncing, but I will defend to the death their right to do so. I suspect there is lots of these type of games played by stewards. Did they actually throw anyone out before ko
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Post by lordherefordsknob on Jan 28, 2016 19:08:57 GMT
Reminded me of Barnsley FA cup game early 89, coaches turned up around kick off time. Thousands outside trying to get in, Police opened the gates to stop the crush to let us all in.
And we all know what happened at Hillsborough a few months later.
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Post by winston on Jan 28, 2016 19:30:42 GMT
[/p]
Anyway, I was chatting to one of the decent stewards when his "team leader" came over to him and told him they were going to throw a few out to calm it down! All that was happening was the usual bouncing.
[/quote] I may not agree with their bouncing, but I will defend to the death their right to do so. I suspect there is lots of these type of games played by stewards. Did they actually throw anyone out before ko [/quote] This fella was serious, took 3 or 4 stewards in to the edge of the crowd and started to talk to one bloke. I went over and started to video (new phone so I didn't press record!). Boss man tells me to put my phone away, I said I wanted to record what he said. Stand off for 30 seconds then he went off saying I was going to be thrown out. The other stewards were fine and I saw them twice later, fine both times. Just the jumped up one proving himself. Easy to throw a couple of kids out, not sure it always diffuses things though.
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Post by salopstick on Jan 28, 2016 20:35:30 GMT
Just talking to a bloke (scouser) who was stood on the kop on Tuesday. He said you could hardly move as everyone was stood in packed up.
He actually said to me you would think my club would know better
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Post by BristolMick on Jan 28, 2016 22:10:40 GMT
Just talking to a bloke (scouser) who was stood on the kop on Tuesday. He said you could hardly move as everyone was stood in packed up. He actually said to me you would think my club would know better Yep, Liverpool Football Club is the club most vocal against standing at football . Standing in seats is more dangerous than standing on terraces yet they allow half their crowd to stand every game.. If they are so strong principled about this because of Hillsborough why don't they take action? Why don't they ban their supporters who stand? Why don't they close the Kop if people won't sit? BM
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Post by samba :) on Jan 28, 2016 22:21:35 GMT
[quote timestamp="1454013330" author=" salopstick" Standing in seats is more dangerous than standing on terraces BM Really?
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Post by salopstick on Jan 28, 2016 22:26:11 GMT
[quote timestamp="1454013330" author=" salopstick" Standing in seats is more dangerous than standing on terraces BM Really? Yes because they were not designed with the space to stand all game. Plus it's easy to fall over the seats in front Hence the "safe" standing rail standing seats
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Post by samba :) on Jan 28, 2016 22:28:14 GMT
Yes because they were not designed with the space to stand all game. Plus it's easy to fall over the seats in front Hence the "safe" standing rail standing seats yess fair enough I suppose we were falling all over the place when we scored but there is still enough room to stand
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Post by BristolMick on Jan 28, 2016 22:54:19 GMT
Yes because they were not designed with the space to stand all game. Plus it's easy to fall over the seats in front Hence the "safe" standing rail standing seats yess fair enough I suppose we were falling all over the place when we scored but there is still enough room to stand In moments of high excitement you don't hurt yourself on terraces and there is no chance of you toppling head first over the people in front or banging your shins on plastic. We don't need so called safe standing either because old style terraces with spaced out barriers are perfectly safe. I am totally with Malcolm and his efforts to get standing brought back in but I think that the biggest opponents need to be called out, shown up for their hypocrisy and allowing something far more dangerous to occur. Liverpool Football Club should be number one in the queue to be called out and forced to either clamp down heavily on their own fans who stand in the Kop or admit that there is nothing unsafe about terraces and start to support the campaign to have them reintroduced. The mass dissent against sitting down shown by Liverpool supporters every week needs to be right at the front of the campaign to get this stupid law changed. We have all seaters because of Hillsbough and the supporters of the victim club show every week the contempt that they hold for that law. BM
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Post by eriksson74 on Jan 29, 2016 16:31:58 GMT
I have just caught up with this thread and agree entirely with Bristol Mick, I did find it extremley strange that the Kop stood on mass, given the comments made by the justice for the 96 (admirable campaign) when they say there is no such thing as safe standing. If there is going to be any set of fans in the world that will sit down then its got to be the Liverpool fans
In relation to comments made by Malcolm, I think its quite valid that Hilssborough is brought up in this thread as the discussion is around the safety of the fans. When tragic incidents occur lessons need to be learnt (to not regognise contributing factors is truely shocking and shows a disregard to us the fans) , whilst we await the decison, I think most folk know what the outcome will be, but all tragic incidents occur due to a number of situations which if not dealt with can build up to create and lead to tragic circumstances. Do the following sound familiar:-
Fans arrive late Kick off not delayed Queuing outside turnstiles - bottle necks No communication Old style Policing/stewarding - assumption is "football fan therfore must be a wrong un"
All of those lead up to a decision made by the Polcie on the day at Hilsborough tragically and Barnsley (more pertinent to stoke fans)where thankfully there was no such tragedy and to a certain degree at Rotherahm admitedly at the end of the game where stoke fans were blocked in at the end of a game down an ally by the side of the ground causing a crush.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 29, 2016 23:18:31 GMT
yess fair enough I suppose we were falling all over the place when we scored but there is still enough room to stand In moments of high excitement you don't hurt yourself on terraces and there is no chance of you toppling head first over the people in front or banging your shins on plastic. We don't need so called safe standing either because old style terraces with spaced out barriers are perfectly safe. I am totally with Malcolm and his efforts to get standing brought back in but I think that the biggest opponents need to be called out, shown up for their hypocrisy and allowing something far more dangerous to occur. Liverpool Football Club should be number one in the queue to be called out and forced to either clamp down heavily on their own fans who stand in the Kop or admit that there is nothing unsafe about terraces and start to support the campaign to have them reintroduced. The mass dissent against sitting down shown by Liverpool supporters every week needs to be right at the front of the campaign to get this stupid law changed. We have all seaters because of Hillsbough and the supporters of the victim club show every week the contempt that they hold for that law. BM Actually, Mick, I don't think Liverpool FC are the biggest opponents. I think they keep pretty quiet on the subject, as do their supporter groups, for very understandable reasons. And they know that even if - when - the law is changed no-one is going to force any football club to have standing areas. You are right that many LFC supporters', like you and I, do not support the current law, but they have respect for the Hillsborough Families who, until now, have opposed any change, and don't say so publicly. I can understand that. And of course with every year that passes an increasing proportion of LFC supporters weren't supporters , and weren't even alive, when Hillsborough happened. With respect, I don't think your approach would help the campaign at all.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 29, 2016 23:50:47 GMT
I have just caught up with this thread and agree entirely with Bristol Mick, I did find it extremley strange that the Kop stood on mass, given the comments made by the justice for the 96 (admirable campaign) when they say there is no such thing as safe standing. If there is going to be any set of fans in the world that will sit down then its got to be the Liverpool fans In relation to comments made by Malcolm, I think its quite valid that Hilssborough is brought up in this thread as the discussion is around the safety of the fans. When tragic incidents occur lessons need to be learnt (to not regognise contributing factors is truely shocking and shows a disregard to us the fans) , whilst we await the decison, I think most folk know what the outcome will be, but all tragic incidents occur due to a number of situations which if not dealt with can build up to create and lead to tragic circumstances. Do the following sound familiar:- Fans arrive late Kick off not delayed Queuing outside turnstiles - bottle necks No communication Old style Policing/stewarding - assumption is "football fan therfore must be a wrong un" All of those lead up to a decision made by the Polcie on the day at Hilsborough tragically and Barnsley (more pertinent to stoke fans)where thankfully there was no such tragedy and to a certain degree at Rotherahm admitedly at the end of the game where stoke fans were blocked in at the end of a game down an ally by the side of the ground causing a crush. The Hillsborough Justice campaign do not have a view on standing, and have always said that standing wasn't the cause of the disaster. The Hillsborough Families Support Group, on the other hand, have always opposed a return to standing. I have attended their meetings and discussed it with them. I have the highest respect for them. Margaret Aspinall and Trevor Hicks are lovely people who have been through something which the rest of us couldn't imagine. We have disagreed with them on this, but have parted on the very best of terms. I think that they have seen all-seater stadia as the legacy of their loved ones, and I fully understand why they haven't wanted anyone to take away the only positive they could see out of this horrible business. Whether that view will change as a result of the new inquest and the chance for justice for which they have waited so long, I don't know. But I still don't think it helps - logically or politically - to bring Hillsborough into the problems at Anfield. The fans at Hillsborough died inside the ground, not outside, after the gates were opened when a crush built up outside. Nobody on Tuesday opened a gate to let everyone in - in that sense you could even say that one of the mistakes of Hillsborough was not repeated. Of course we must learn from past mistakes. Of much more relevance than Hillsborough in my view is the fact that twice in the very recent past other clubs, Everton and Man City, have had similar problems to us outside those same Anfield turnstiles. The question therefore is - what lessons were learnt from those events and why weren't they applied on Tuesday ? More specifically, why were the stoke coaches late in arriving ? Was the late arrival communicated to LFC en route ? If so, what contingency plan, if any, did LFC have to deal with the late arrival of a large number of fans ? Was any consideration given to delaying the kick-off ? If so, why wasn't it delayed ? Why was there an apparent break down of crowd management outside the turnstiles ? Were there sufficient policing and stewarding resources ? And no doubt others. IMHO bringing Hillsborough into it just muddies the waters.
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Post by burge2u on Jan 30, 2016 0:16:03 GMT
I have just caught up with this thread and agree entirely with Bristol Mick, I did find it extremley strange that the Kop stood on mass, given the comments made by the justice for the 96 (admirable campaign) when they say there is no such thing as safe standing. If there is going to be any set of fans in the world that will sit down then its got to be the Liverpool fans In relation to comments made by Malcolm, I think its quite valid that Hilssborough is brought up in this thread as the discussion is around the safety of the fans. When tragic incidents occur lessons need to be learnt (to not regognise contributing factors is truely shocking and shows a disregard to us the fans) , whilst we await the decison, I think most folk know what the outcome will be, but all tragic incidents occur due to a number of situations which if not dealt with can build up to create and lead to tragic circumstances. Do the following sound familiar:- Fans arrive late Kick off not delayed Queuing outside turnstiles - bottle necks No communication Old style Policing/stewarding - assumption is "football fan therfore must be a wrong un" All of those lead up to a decision made by the Polcie on the day at Hilsborough tragically and Barnsley (more pertinent to stoke fans)where thankfully there was no such tragedy and to a certain degree at Rotherahm admitedly at the end of the game where stoke fans were blocked in at the end of a game down an ally by the side of the ground causing a crush. The Hillsborough Justice campaign do not have a view on standing, and have always said that standing wasn't the cause of the disaster. The Hillsborough Families Support Group, on the other hand, have always opposed a return to standing. I have attended their meetings and discussed it with them. I have the highest respect for them. Margaret Aspinall and Trevor Hicks are lovely people who have been through something which the rest of us couldn't imagine. We have disagreed with them on this, but have parted on the very best of terms. I think that they have seen all-seater stadia as the legacy of their loved ones, and I fully understand why they haven't wanted anyone to take away the only positive they could see out of this horrible business. Whether that view will change as a result of the new inquest and the chance for justice for which they have waited so long, I don't know. But I still don't think it helps - logically or politically - to bring Hillsborough into the problems at Anfield. The fans at Hillsborough died inside the ground, not outside, after the gates were opened when a crush built up outside. Nobody on Tuesday opened a gate to let everyone in - in that sense you could even say that one of the mistakes of Hillsborough was not repeated. Of course we must learn from past mistakes. Of much more relevance than Hillsborough in my view is the fact that twice in the very recent past other clubs, Everton and Man City, have had similar problems to us outside those same Anfield turnstiles. The question therefore is - what lessons were learnt from those events and why weren't they applied on Tuesday ? More specifically, why were the stoke coaches late in arriving ? Was the late arrival communicated to LFC en route ? If so, what contingency plan, if any, did LFC have to deal with the late arrival of a large number of fans ? Was any consideration given to delaying the kick-off ? If so, why wasn't it delayed ? Why was there an apparent break down of crowd management outside the turnstiles ? Were there sufficient policing and stewarding resources ? And no doubt others. IMHO bringing Hillsborough into it just muddies the waters. Hi Malcolm, Whilst queuing outside the turnstiles, the last thing that was on my mind was missing the kick off. Myself & many others were in real danger of being crushed & there was nothing we could do about it. This was a very, very scary situation. I think that parallels are being made with the Hillsborough situation because so many people were afraid of being crushed. I asked a (very friendly) policeman if he could request that the kick off could be delayed to diffuse the pushing and crushing. The policeman said that they only had any influence on what happened outside the ground. He was however critical of the lack of coordination between what the stewards & the police were doing. I wonder if controllers inside the stadium were even aware of the criticality of the situation at the turnstiles?
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 30, 2016 7:25:04 GMT
The Hillsborough Justice campaign do not have a view on standing, and have always said that standing wasn't the cause of the disaster. The Hillsborough Families Support Group, on the other hand, have always opposed a return to standing. I have attended their meetings and discussed it with them. I have the highest respect for them. Margaret Aspinall and Trevor Hicks are lovely people who have been through something which the rest of us couldn't imagine. We have disagreed with them on this, but have parted on the very best of terms. I think that they have seen all-seater stadia as the legacy of their loved ones, and I fully understand why they haven't wanted anyone to take away the only positive they could see out of this horrible business. Whether that view will change as a result of the new inquest and the chance for justice for which they have waited so long, I don't know. But I still don't think it helps - logically or politically - to bring Hillsborough into the problems at Anfield. The fans at Hillsborough died inside the ground, not outside, after the gates were opened when a crush built up outside. Nobody on Tuesday opened a gate to let everyone in - in that sense you could even say that one of the mistakes of Hillsborough was not repeated. Of course we must learn from past mistakes. Of much more relevance than Hillsborough in my view is the fact that twice in the very recent past other clubs, Everton and Man City, have had similar problems to us outside those same Anfield turnstiles. The question therefore is - what lessons were learnt from those events and why weren't they applied on Tuesday ? More specifically, why were the stoke coaches late in arriving ? Was the late arrival communicated to LFC en route ? If so, what contingency plan, if any, did LFC have to deal with the late arrival of a large number of fans ? Was any consideration given to delaying the kick-off ? If so, why wasn't it delayed ? Why was there an apparent break down of crowd management outside the turnstiles ? Were there sufficient policing and stewarding resources ? And no doubt others. IMHO bringing Hillsborough into it just muddies the waters. Hi Malcolm, Whilst queuing outside the turnstiles, the last thing that was on my mind was missing the kick off. Myself & many others were in real danger of being crushed & there was nothing we could do about it. This was a very, very scary situation. I think that parallels are being made with the Hillsborough situation because so many people were afraid of being crushed. I asked a (very friendly) policeman if he could request that the kick off could be delayed to diffuse the pushing and crushing. The policeman said that they only had any influence on what happened outside the ground. He was however critical of the lack of coordination between what the stewards & the police were doing. I wonder if controllers inside the stadium were even aware of the criticality of the situation at the turnstiles? Hi Burge. If you could give us a statement, that would be great. I don't think the policeman's response was accurate. I'm sure that if the police had made a request for a delayed kick-off that would have been taken very seriously by the safety officer and the referee. Your last question is a crucial one. The alleged late arrival of fans was of course one of the allegations made about Hillsborough. In this case, it seems clear that the late arrival of fans, due to the late arrival of coaches was a factor - but that is matter for Stoke City to respond to, not Liverpool FC. How Liverpool FC responded to that situation, is however certainly a question
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 30, 2016 8:21:13 GMT
I've been to every game we've played at anfield during my lifetime and that ridiculously slow process of entering the ground has been the same on every visit we've ever made there.
If you arrive 15 minutes before kick off, as so many do, there is always the same problem.
The sheer numbers attending the fixture on Tuesday when compared with a normal league fixture was the difference. It was exactly the same back in 1991/92 when Stoke coaches were delayed on m6 and there was pandemonium and chaos outside the turnstiles.
Sadly, at anfield, it's never been any different and it is unlikely to change anytime in the future.
It isn't a one off problem. It's a problem every time we visit. This time, the sheer numbers made it dangerous instead of just being a total pain in the Arse.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Jan 30, 2016 8:37:41 GMT
I've been to every game we've played at anfield during my lifetime and that ridiculously slow process of entering the ground has been the same on every visit we've ever made there. If you arrive 15 minutes before kick off, as so many do, there is always the same problem. The sheer numbers attending the fixture on Tuesday when compared with a normal league fixture was the difference. It was exactly the same back in 1991/92 when Stoke coaches were delayed on m6 and there was pandemonium and chaos outside the turnstiles. Sadly, at anfield, it's never been any different and it is unlikely to change anytime in the future. It isn't a one off problem. It's a problem every time we visit. This time, the sheer numbers made it dangerous instead of just being a total pain in the Arse. Totally agree with this. Coupled with the fact that the OB and stewards couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery it was always going to be a problem.
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Post by metalhead on Jan 30, 2016 9:15:17 GMT
I have now passed the baton to the FSF caseworker, Amanda Jacks, who was also involved in the discussions after the problems Everton had. Please copy Amanda into anything you send in to either club or anyone else info@fsf.org.uk I'll write an email asap. This shit needs to stop before more people get hurt. Cheers
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Post by bathstoke on Jan 30, 2016 9:19:58 GMT
The Hillsborough Justice campaign do not have a view on standing, and have always said that standing wasn't the cause of the disaster. The Hillsborough Families Support Group, on the other hand, have always opposed a return to standing. I have attended their meetings and discussed it with them. I have the highest respect for them. Margaret Aspinall and Trevor Hicks are lovely people who have been through something which the rest of us couldn't imagine. We have disagreed with them on this, but have parted on the very best of terms. I think that they have seen all-seater stadia as the legacy of their loved ones, and I fully understand why they haven't wanted anyone to take away the only positive they could see out of this horrible business. Whether that view will change as a result of the new inquest and the chance for justice for which they have waited so long, I don't know. But I still don't think it helps - logically or politically - to bring Hillsborough into the problems at Anfield. The fans at Hillsborough died inside the ground, not outside, after the gates were opened when a crush built up outside. Nobody on Tuesday opened a gate to let everyone in - in that sense you could even say that one of the mistakes of Hillsborough was not repeated. Of course we must learn from past mistakes. Of much more relevance than Hillsborough in my view is the fact that twice in the very recent past other clubs, Everton and Man City, have had similar problems to us outside those same Anfield turnstiles. The question therefore is - what lessons were learnt from those events and why weren't they applied on Tuesday ? More specifically, why were the stoke coaches late in arriving ? Was the late arrival communicated to LFC en route ? If so, what contingency plan, if any, did LFC have to deal with the late arrival of a large number of fans ? Was any consideration given to delaying the kick-off ? If so, why wasn't it delayed ? Why was there an apparent break down of crowd management outside the turnstiles ? Were there sufficient policing and stewarding resources ? And no doubt others. IMHO bringing Hillsborough into it just muddies the waters. Hi Malcolm, Whilst queuing outside the turnstiles, the last thing that was on my mind was missing the kick off. Myself & many others were in real danger of being crushed & there was nothing we could do about it. This was a very, very scary situation. I think that parallels are being made with the Hillsborough situation because so many people were afraid of being crushed. I asked a (very friendly) policeman if he could request that the kick off could be delayed to diffuse the pushing and crushing. The policeman said that they only had any influence on what happened outside the ground. He was however critical of the lack of coordination between what the stewards & the police were doing. I wonder if controllers inside the stadium were even aware of the criticality of the situation at the turnstiles? It was obvious even to me, reading the posts on here at 5/6pm talking about the horrendous traffic on the Motorway & then seeing all the empty seats on tv at ko in the Stoke end, for a sellout game, that there were a lot of people still to enter the stadium. Security knew what was coming & if not they are incompetent
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