|
Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2016 18:30:32 GMT
We didn't go on the coaches and got to the turnstiles a lot earlier than the people who were delayed getting in.
However even then, the whole thing felt massively unprofessional, the stewards were contradicting each other with their instructions, we were told by one set to move forwards, to then only moments later, be told by the next set, to move back to where we had just come from, police horses were right into the crowd for no apparent reason, we got in okay but it seemed hugely unorganised and there didn't appear to be any agreed plan from the authorities on how to marshall the crowd.
And that Paul is just some of the main reasons why I have chosen to become an armchair supporter. It was bad at times way back, but nowhere near as bad as it is now. Jumped up stewards giving it the big 'un. Police officers not giving a sh*t, and worst of all, the idiotic sheep like herding of people who've paid good money for the privilege of watching their team play a game of football. And it's not just football either, it's at most if not all money grabbing events.
|
|
|
Post by primmerz on Jan 27, 2016 18:34:29 GMT
Don't you fucking dare criticise Stoke fans. There's always people like you coming on here that have absolutely nothing to do with Stoke City. Any other night I would leave it. Not tonight. You represent everything I fucking hate and despise about our new breed of supporters. 'Insensitive'? Excuse me while I cry my fucking eyes out. Hear hear wizzard. I get so pissed off sometimes. Well said Can't believe people agree or even listen to this guy, iwebbyyy didn't even mention stoke fans, never mind criticise them. It was a night to be proud and you have idiots like this having a go at other fans for no reason at all, its disgraceful. As for the topic in hand, it was a farce outside.
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 27, 2016 19:44:47 GMT
Malcolm, where can I get a copy of this independent report, is it online? here you go hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/You can also access all the documents submitted to the panel. There's a huge amount of that, but it is all there if you want to follow a particular point or piece of evidence.
|
|
|
Post by lordherefordsknob on Jan 27, 2016 20:00:59 GMT
The biggest question of the lot is how a massive club like liverpool cannot cope with 2,000 away fans turning up 5 minutes before kick off.
The ground holds 44,000 so how the hell can such a small percentage of the crowd be waiting outside for so long?
Imagine being a supporter of a European club travelling halfway across Europe and being told you have to wait 20 minutes to get in, or sitting in one of those God Awful seats at the back.
|
|
|
Post by BristolMick on Jan 27, 2016 20:23:26 GMT
The only fans disrespecting those that died at Hillsborough tonight were the thousands who STOOD ON THE KOP. We have all seater stadiums because of the Liverpool fans who died and yet today's Liverpool fans are sticking two fingers up to their memory by standing every game. BM I don't agree at all with this, because it is based on the assumption that the deaths at Hillsborough were caused by standing. We will see in a few weeks what the inquest jury concludes about the causes of those deaths. But if standing is disrespectful to those who died ( which I don't agree with) then it applies equally to the fans of any club who stand, including us, where almost our entire away support stands at almost every away game. Malcolm, the assumption that standing was a contributory factor in the deaths is something that the FA have majored on since the Taylor Report and it is an assumption that the likes of Margaret Aspinall (Hillsborough Family Support Group Chairman) has cited as a reason to oppose allowing terracing back to the top stadia. It is a reason that Liverpool Football Club have stated that they will never entertain the idea of terracing at Anfield. Yet at Anfield the very fans who you would think would be most sensitive to the Hillsborough disaster are blatantly ignoring the recommendations of the Taylor report on sitting down. Those fans are metaphorically sticking two fingers up to their club and the families of the victims who have stated that terracing WAS one of the causes of death and should be banned. However, I agree that standing is not unsafe and was not the cause of death. I am allowed to stand in a 12,000 crowd at Bristol Rovers but not in one in the same division at Plymouth Argyle or Portsmouth. Why? Its either safe or its not? And there is no need for this so called "safe standing" either as there is nothing unsafe about standing on old style terraces of which there are still plenty in the lower leagues and at rugby. It is unsafe to stand in all seater areas though and there would have been plenty of injuries when we scored last night. There should be a choice, then at least those that want to sit could sit because they certainly cant do that at a lot of games now, but it wont happen no matter what the Hillsborough inquest report concludes because there is little will from the clubs to reintroduce terracing. It is mainly about money, just like everything else but up until now they have been able to hide behind the Taylor Report and the ridiculous laws brought in on all seating. I cannot even see the REQUIREMENT for all seater being removed because pressure will be brought by the biggest clubs to keep the current rules no matter if the report concludes that terracing was not to blame! BM
|
|
|
Post by kev1060 on Jan 27, 2016 20:33:52 GMT
Coaches left Stoke at 4.45 pm, then the M6 and M62 traffic caused a go-slow all of the way to Liverpool. It was just sheer volume of rush hour traffic , together with plenty of roadworks on the way.
Approaching the last mile, no police escort, and stopping and starting through the numerous traffic lights. Our coach arrived alongside Stanley Park at 7.35 pm. Ten minute walk to ground so arrived at the turnstiles at 7.45 pm just as match was kicking off with 1500 other Stokies.
Then it's awful policing as policewoman on horse starts to cause mayhem by using her horse as a form of battering ram, when there was absolutely no need to, and with only two turnstiles open and the automated system going haywire, the inevitable frustration of the Stokies started to cause friction with the stewards and police.
I got in the ground just as Walters had his best effort (23 minutes into the game).
Issues to address: 1.Lateness of coaches in setting off (should have been 4.30 pm) 2.Why no police escort? 3.Why was kick off not put back? 4.Over officious policing.
|
|
|
Post by scfcwebby on Jan 27, 2016 20:55:04 GMT
Coaches left Stoke at 4.45 pm, then the M6 and M62 traffic caused a go-slow all of the way to Liverpool. It was just sheer volume of rush hour traffic , together with plenty of roadworks on the way. Approaching the last mile, no police escort, and stopping and starting through the numerous traffic lights. Our coach arrived alongside Stanley Park at 7.35 pm. Ten minute walk to ground so arrived at the turnstiles at 7.45 pm just as match was kicking off with 1500 other Stokies. Then it's awful policing as policewoman on horse starts to cause mayhem by using her horse as a form of battering ram, when there was absolutely no need to, and with only two turnstiles open and the automated system going haywire, the inevitable frustration of the Stokies started to cause friction with the stewards and police. I got in the ground just as Walters had his best effort (23 minutes into the game). Issues to address: 1.Lateness of coaches in setting off (should have been 4.30 pm) 2.Why no police escort? 3.Why was kick off not put back? 4.Over officious policing. The coaches were a fucking Joke! Information said that they would leave at "4.30pm sharp" and one of them didn't even arrive at the Brit until 4.35 and all of the others had to wait for that one to arrive! It was absolute madness! Whoever at the club thought that it was a good idea to arrange the coaches to leave at 4.30 to head through J16-J21A slap bang in the middle of rush hour with all of the road works on top of that, needs sacking! When we pulled up on to the road that the coaches were parked on we were still stationary, one of the guys on the coach asked if we could get off as we were going to miss the beginning of the match, we were told no by the driver and the coach official and the reason given was "we needed to know where to get back on the coach". 8 minutes later we had moved 200yards and parked up, absolutely shocking! The stewarding was poor at the ground everyone being told to go to the end of a queue that wasn't even a queue. 2 police horses slap bang in the middle of the crowds, stewards giving it the big one, mindless fucking idiots (Stoke fans) shouting "push" and pushing shoving almost causing a crush! I am a 27 year old reasonable built guy and I was getting trapped in it so I genuinely believe that it could have got extremely serious and potentially fatal should somebody elderly or young etc got on the wrong end of a shove! Moving on from that just before half time as our goal went in, in the concourse the behaviour of Stoke fans waiting to get served was disgraceful and embarrassing! The woman serving shouted up that nobody would get served if they weren't in the lines for te queue! A barrage of bile then followed from a group of idiots, "fuck off you scouse slag" "I'll jump over and serve my fucking self you fat scouse tramp" can from some grown mans mouth while others tried pushing the display cabinet off the counter with chocolate etc in it while again pushing and shoving to get to the front! Things got worse when an elderly lady (I would say about 70) on crutches was trying to get away with her drink and was being pushed and shoved everywhere, when she turned around she was crying, obviously terrified of what she was in the middle of, as I went to help another "Good Samaritan" put his arm around her and guided get out of te mele and to the safety of a steward, the roar went up and everyone charged for the stairs back in to the ground! The fans were great during the game backing the team but we don't half have a few dickheads amongst us at away games!
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 27, 2016 21:55:44 GMT
I don't agree at all with this, because it is based on the assumption that the deaths at Hillsborough were caused by standing. We will see in a few weeks what the inquest jury concludes about the causes of those deaths. But if standing is disrespectful to those who died ( which I don't agree with) then it applies equally to the fans of any club who stand, including us, where almost our entire away support stands at almost every away game. Malcolm, the assumption that standing was a contributory factor in the deaths is something that the FA have majored on since the Taylor Report and it is an assumption that the likes of Margaret Aspinall (Hillsborough Family Support Group Chairman) has cited as a reason to oppose allowing terracing back to the top stadia. It is a reason that Liverpool Football Club have stated that they will never entertain the idea of terracing at Anfield. Yet at Anfield the very fans who you would think would be most sensitive to the Hillsborough disaster are blatantly ignoring the recommendations of the Taylor report on sitting down. Those fans are metaphorically sticking two fingers up to their club and the families of the victims who have stated that terracing WAS one of the causes of death and should be banned. However, I agree that standing is not unsafe and was not the cause of death. I am allowed to stand in a 12,000 crowd at Bristol Rovers but not in one in the same division at Plymouth Argyle or Portsmouth. Why? Its either safe or its not? And there is no need for this so called "safe standing" either as there is nothing unsafe about standing on old style terraces of which there are still plenty in the lower leagues and at rugby. It is unsafe to stand in all seater areas though and there would have been plenty of injuries when we scored last night. There should be a choice, then at least those that want to sit could sit because they certainly cant do that at a lot of games now, but it wont happen no matter what the Hillsborough inquest report concludes because there is little will from the clubs to reintroduce terracing. It is mainly about money, just like everything else but up until now they have been able to hide behind the Taylor Report and the ridiculous laws brought in on all seating. I cannot even see the REQUIREMENT for all seater being removed because pressure will be brought by the biggest clubs to keep the current rules no matter if the report concludes that terracing was not to blame! BM Mick, I don't agree with everything in your first paragraph. I think it's more complex than that and has also been, and is, a changing situation in the light of evidence as it emerges in terms of the attitudes of key parties. Also, many Liverpool fans do not agree that standing was a cause of the disaster but choose for very understandable reasons not to enter into any unedifying public disagreement with the HFSG. I do agree with everything in your second paragraph, although I would change "unsafe" in your last sentence to "less safe". You will perhaps be pleased to know that I don't think you are right in your third paragraph. Opinion is changing both inside and outside the game. Celtic will have a new large standing area from the start of next season which I think will be viewed as a pilot. The welsh assembly has passed a resolution with all-party support in favour of a return of standing areas and the welsh conservatives have called for this to become a devolved power. The sports minister's tone has softened. In private discussions with the FSF a number of PL clubs, including some 'big' ones, have indicated their support (but they don't want to go public on it at this time). This is because they realise that extensive standing in seated areas is here to stay and that it causes problems, not only of safety but also customer care because of fans who either can't or don't want to stand being forced to. I know of a number of our own clubs fans who have stopped going to away games for that reason - which is a real shame. I wouldn't put a timescale on it, but I firmly believe that standing areas will return to the top leagues of english football - because eventually logic and common sense will prevail.
|
|
|
Post by citynumberten on Jan 27, 2016 22:15:54 GMT
Coaches left Stoke at 4.45 pm, then the M6 and M62 traffic caused a go-slow all of the way to Liverpool. It was just sheer volume of rush hour traffic , together with plenty of roadworks on the way. Approaching the last mile, no police escort, and stopping and starting through the numerous traffic lights. Our coach arrived alongside Stanley Park at 7.35 pm. Ten minute walk to ground so arrived at the turnstiles at 7.45 pm just as match was kicking off with 1500 other Stokies. Then it's awful policing as policewoman on horse starts to cause mayhem by using her horse as a form of battering ram, when there was absolutely no need to, and with only two turnstiles open and the automated system going haywire, the inevitable frustration of the Stokies started to cause friction with the stewards and police. I got in the ground just as Walters had his best effort (23 minutes into the game). Issues to address: 1.Lateness of coaches in setting off (should have been 4.30 pm) 2.Why no police escort? 3.Why was kick off not put back? 4.Over officious policing. The coaches were a fucking Joke! Information said that they would leave at "4.30pm sharp" and one of them didn't even arrive at the Brit until 4.35 and all of the others had to wait for that one to arrive! It was absolute madness! Whoever at the club thought that it was a good idea to arrange the coaches to leave at 4.30 to head through J16-J21A slap bang in the middle of rush hour with all of the road works on top of that, needs sacking! When we pulled up on to the road that the coaches were parked on we were still stationary, one of the guys on the coach asked if we could get off as we were going to miss the beginning of the match, we were told no by the driver and the coach official and the reason given was "we needed to know where to get back on the coach". 8 minutes later we had moved 200yards and parked up, absolutely shocking! The stewarding was poor at the ground everyone being told to go to the end of a queue that wasn't even a queue. 2 police horses slap bang in the middle of the crowds, stewards giving it the big one, mindless fucking idiots (Stoke fans) shouting "push" and pushing shoving almost causing a crush! I am a 27 year old reasonable built guy and I was getting trapped in it so I genuinely believe that it could have got extremely serious and potentially fatal should somebody elderly or young etc got on the wrong end of a shove! Moving on from that just before half time as our goal went in, in the concourse the behaviour of Stoke fans waiting to get served was disgraceful and embarrassing! The woman serving shouted up that nobody would get served if they weren't in the lines for te queue! A barrage of bile then followed from a group of idiots, "fuck off you scouse slag" "I'll jump over and serve my fucking self you fat scouse tramp" can from some grown mans mouth while others tried pushing the display cabinet off the counter with chocolate etc in it while again pushing and shoving to get to the front! Things got worse when an elderly lady (I would say about 70) on crutches was trying to get away with her drink and was being pushed and shoved everywhere, when she turned around she was crying, obviously terrified of what she was in the middle of, as I went to help another "Good Samaritan" put his arm around her and guided get out of te mele and to the safety of a steward, the roar went up and everyone charged for the stairs back in to the ground! The fans were great during the game backing the team but we don't half have a few dickheads amongst us at away games! Coach 22 by any chance? Absolutely fucking useless. I'm convinced that driver hadn't got a licence!
|
|
|
Post by butler64 on Jan 27, 2016 22:20:43 GMT
The coaches were a fucking Joke! Information said that they would leave at "4.30pm sharp" and one of them didn't even arrive at the Brit until 4.35 and all of the others had to wait for that one to arrive! It was absolute madness! Whoever at the club thought that it was a good idea to arrange the coaches to leave at 4.30 to head through J16-J21A slap bang in the middle of rush hour with all of the road works on top of that, needs sacking! When we pulled up on to the road that the coaches were parked on we were still stationary, one of the guys on the coach asked if we could get off as we were going to miss the beginning of the match, we were told no by the driver and the coach official and the reason given was "we needed to know where to get back on the coach". 8 minutes later we had moved 200yards and parked up, absolutely shocking! The stewarding was poor at the ground everyone being told to go to the end of a queue that wasn't even a queue. 2 police horses slap bang in the middle of the crowds, stewards giving it the big one, mindless fucking idiots (Stoke fans) shouting "push" and pushing shoving almost causing a crush! I am a 27 year old reasonable built guy and I was getting trapped in it so I genuinely believe that it could have got extremely serious and potentially fatal should somebody elderly or young etc got on the wrong end of a shove! Moving on from that just before half time as our goal went in, in the concourse the behaviour of Stoke fans waiting to get served was disgraceful and embarrassing! The woman serving shouted up that nobody would get served if they weren't in the lines for te queue! A barrage of bile then followed from a group of idiots, "fuck off you scouse slag" "I'll jump over and serve my fucking self you fat scouse tramp" can from some grown mans mouth while others tried pushing the display cabinet off the counter with chocolate etc in it while again pushing and shoving to get to the front! Things got worse when an elderly lady (I would say about 70) on crutches was trying to get away with her drink and was being pushed and shoved everywhere, when she turned around she was crying, obviously terrified of what she was in the middle of, as I went to help another "Good Samaritan" put his arm around her and guided get out of te mele and to the safety of a steward, the roar went up and everyone charged for the stairs back in to the ground! The fans were great during the game backing the team but we don't half have a few dickheads amongst us at away games! Coach 22 by any chance? Absolutely fucking useless. I'm convinced that driver hadn't got a licence! Definitely sounds like coach 22. I heard that the coach has had to go in for new brake pads today as the driver wore them out with his excessive erratic braking last night
|
|
|
Post by scfcwebby on Jan 27, 2016 22:28:08 GMT
The coaches were a fucking Joke! Information said that they would leave at "4.30pm sharp" and one of them didn't even arrive at the Brit until 4.35 and all of the others had to wait for that one to arrive! It was absolute madness! Whoever at the club thought that it was a good idea to arrange the coaches to leave at 4.30 to head through J16-J21A slap bang in the middle of rush hour with all of the road works on top of that, needs sacking! When we pulled up on to the road that the coaches were parked on we were still stationary, one of the guys on the coach asked if we could get off as we were going to miss the beginning of the match, we were told no by the driver and the coach official and the reason given was "we needed to know where to get back on the coach". 8 minutes later we had moved 200yards and parked up, absolutely shocking! The stewarding was poor at the ground everyone being told to go to the end of a queue that wasn't even a queue. 2 police horses slap bang in the middle of the crowds, stewards giving it the big one, mindless fucking idiots (Stoke fans) shouting "push" and pushing shoving almost causing a crush! I am a 27 year old reasonable built guy and I was getting trapped in it so I genuinely believe that it could have got extremely serious and potentially fatal should somebody elderly or young etc got on the wrong end of a shove! Moving on from that just before half time as our goal went in, in the concourse the behaviour of Stoke fans waiting to get served was disgraceful and embarrassing! The woman serving shouted up that nobody would get served if they weren't in the lines for te queue! A barrage of bile then followed from a group of idiots, "fuck off you scouse slag" "I'll jump over and serve my fucking self you fat scouse tramp" can from some grown mans mouth while others tried pushing the display cabinet off the counter with chocolate etc in it while again pushing and shoving to get to the front! Things got worse when an elderly lady (I would say about 70) on crutches was trying to get away with her drink and was being pushed and shoved everywhere, when she turned around she was crying, obviously terrified of what she was in the middle of, as I went to help another "Good Samaritan" put his arm around her and guided get out of te mele and to the safety of a steward, the roar went up and everyone charged for the stairs back in to the ground! The fans were great during the game backing the team but we don't half have a few dickheads amongst us at away games! Coach 22 by any chance? Absolutely fucking useless. I'm convinced that driver hadn't got a licence! Yes mate coach 22, the driver was appalling and his breaks must be fucked after that! The move he did in the artic on the A500 on the way home was shocking!
|
|
|
Post by scfcwebby on Jan 27, 2016 22:30:00 GMT
Coach 22 by any chance? Absolutely fucking useless. I'm convinced that driver hadn't got a licence! Definitely sounds like coach 22. I heard that the coach has had to go in for new brake pads today as the driver wore them out with his excessive erratic braking last night Yes mate that's it, I'm thinking of claiming for whiplash!
|
|
|
Post by samba :) on Jan 27, 2016 22:34:08 GMT
Coaches left Stoke at 4.45 pm, then the M6 and M62 traffic caused a go-slow all of the way to Liverpool. It was just sheer volume of rush hour traffic , together with plenty of roadworks on the way. Approaching the last mile, no police escort, and stopping and starting through the numerous traffic lights. Our coach arrived alongside Stanley Park at 7.35 pm. Ten minute walk to ground so arrived at the turnstiles at 7.45 pm just as match was kicking off with 1500 other Stokies. Then it's awful policing as policewoman on horse starts to cause mayhem by using her horse as a form of battering ram, when there was absolutely no need to, and with only two turnstiles open and the automated system going haywire, the inevitable frustration of the Stokies started to cause friction with the stewards and police. I got in the ground just as Walters had his best effort (23 minutes into the game). Issues to address: 1.Lateness of coaches in setting off (should have been 4.30 pm) 2.Why no police escort? 3.Why was kick off not put back? 4.Over officious policing. The coaches were a fucking Joke! Information said that they would leave at "4.30pm sharp" and one of them didn't even arrive at the Brit until 4.35 and all of the others had to wait for that one to arrive! It was absolute madness! Whoever at the club thought that it was a good idea to arrange the coaches to leave at 4.30 to head through J16-J21A slap bang in the middle of rush hour with all of the road works on top of that, needs sacking! When we pulled up on to the road that the coaches were parked on we were still stationary, one of the guys on the coach asked if we could get off as we were going to miss the beginning of the match, we were told no by the driver and the coach official and the reason given was "we needed to know where to get back on the coach". 8 minutes later we had moved 200yards and parked up, absolutely shocking! The stewarding was poor at the ground everyone being told to go to the end of a queue that wasn't even a queue. 2 police horses slap bang in the middle of the crowds, stewards giving it the big one, mindless fucking idiots (Stoke fans) shouting "push" and pushing shoving almost causing a crush! I am a 27 year old reasonable built guy and I was getting trapped in it so I genuinely believe that it could have got extremely serious and potentially fatal should somebody elderly or young etc got on the wrong end of a shove! Moving on from that just before half time as our goal went in, in the concourse the behaviour of Stoke fans waiting to get served was disgraceful and embarrassing! The woman serving shouted up that nobody would get served if they weren't in the lines for te queue! A barrage of bile then followed from a group of idiots, "fuck off you scouse slag" "I'll jump over and serve my fucking self you fat scouse tramp" can from some grown mans mouth while others tried pushing the display cabinet off the counter with chocolate etc in it while again pushing and shoving to get to the front! Things got worse when an elderly lady (I would say about 70) on crutches was trying to get away with her drink and was being pushed and shoved everywhere, when she turned around she was crying, obviously terrified of what she was in the middle of, as I went to help another "Good Samaritan" put his arm around her and guided get out of te mele and to the safety of a steward, the roar went up and everyone charged for the stairs back in to the ground! The fans were great during the game backing the team but we don't half have a few dickheads amongst us at away games! fantastic post agree with it all, there were to many people in one area though usually we would only have 2 thousand at an away game
|
|
|
Post by jpm64 on Jan 28, 2016 8:48:25 GMT
But they are absolutely brilliant at manipulating the media and local politicians and presenting themselves as Victims aren't they? Showed their true colours tonight. Hypocritical cunts. If this is a reference to Hillsborough, I think it's inappropriate. Within a few weeks we will see what the Inquest jury concludes about the causes of the deaths of the 96 fans , but in any case I don't think it's reasonable to make any link between failings in advance planning and stewarding by LFC at Anfield last night with what happened at a different ground 27 years ago. Malcolm, I have always had the utmost respect for you and the work the FSF have done in helping highlight the failings which led to the awful tragedy at Hillsborough and the fact that the fans were in no way to blame However I think your comments on this issue are unfair and you clearly did not witness what went on before Tuesday's game. I was there with my teenage son and daughter and the scenes were frankly appalling and my kids and many others were distressed and genuinely frightened. I have no doubt that had someone fallen in that crush we would have been looking at a potential fatality. I know the coaches arrived late and that is an issue for Stoke to look at but the crowd management was shambolic and when everyone heard that the game had kicked off on time it led to more anger and pushing and shoving. There was no sign of any organisation and no announcements made. People were just left to fend for themselves !! Once in the ground ( 20 mins after kick off ) I complained to a steward and said that in light of what LFC had gone through in the past I would have expected more sensitivity towards situations like this.... At this point he threatened to eject me ! We then had the announcement to Stoke fans over the tannoy I honestly thought it was going to be an apology but NO we were being told to sit down ( whilst the whole of the Kop stood !!! ) So I think it is perfectly reasonable to draw comparisons with what happened 27 years ago and not to do so would be wrong. I think rather than minimising what happened on Tuesday you should be leading the calls for a full apology from LFC for their negligence and aggressive attitudes of stewards for daring to be critical of them.
|
|
|
Post by alster on Jan 28, 2016 9:27:57 GMT
Didn't go but have previous experience of Away fans being treated like shit there by stewards and police. I never go to away games anymore, fed up of paying vast amounts of money for the privilege of being treated like a criminal.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 9:31:41 GMT
Fucking hell - three pages into a thread that blames the police, stewards and coaches for issues before the game and we finally get a post that may explain the real issue behind the crush.
This is why many people outside football couldn't give a flying fuck about the game and its followers.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2016 9:34:43 GMT
Fucking hell - three pages into a thread that blames the police, stewards and coaches for issues before the game and we finally get a post that may explain the real issue behind the crush. This is why many people outside football couldn't give a flying fuck about the game and its followers.
No mate the organisation was appalling before the coaches turned up and before the crush even started.
|
|
|
Post by alster on Jan 28, 2016 9:36:13 GMT
And why the fook do they keep pretending to search me when attending home games. It's so half arsed I could get anything I wanted past them and impossible to do correctly with the resources available in a reasonable timescale. Surely it would be more effective to target and do the job properly.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 9:38:53 GMT
Fucking hell - three pages into a thread that blames the police, stewards and coaches for issues before the game and we finally get a post that may explain the real issue behind the crush. This is why many people outside football couldn't give a flying fuck about the game and its followers.
No mate the organisation was appalling before the coaches turned up and before the crush even started.
OK, so the organisation was appalling before the crush started. What started the crush? Were police horses, stewards or the police purposefully pushing fans into a corner? I'm fucking sick of arguing the point on this one and have been for years (since Barnsley) as a large percentage of fans are too quick to blame everyone else but themselves. And here, yet again, is more of the same.
|
|
|
Post by jeycov on Jan 28, 2016 9:43:06 GMT
We travelled by car and although we were in the ground in good time for the kick off, the traffic congestion, lack of signs to the best routes to follow were poor.
After a very rude response from the staff monitoring one car park (at a pub), we did have some excellent advice from one of the traffic management staff but this was at about 7pm
The photographs and messages report a very different and frightening experience, shared by fans around me who did not get to their seats until 20 mins or so into the first half.
Frustrated fans waiting to get through the turnstiles a recipe for disaster
An earlier post on here (or Twitter) suggested contacting the club and editor-in-chief@hillsborough.gsi.gov.uk - currently at the summing up stage of this inquest
I have done this
Consider making contact, add appropriate photos / video evidence if need be
This could have happened at any football ground, and in my opinion this should be raised at a national level
Pete Smith, the Sports reporter for the Sentinel expects a wider response to the problem
Fortunately there were no physical injuries (as far as I know) but a distressing time for many
Every club should be addressing the fact despite many improvements regarding safety at football matches, these problems still exist
|
|
|
Post by jpm64 on Jan 28, 2016 9:44:08 GMT
Fucking hell - three pages into a thread that blames the police, stewards and coaches for issues before the game and we finally get a post that may explain the real issue behind the crush. This is why many people outside football couldn't give a flying fuck about the game and its followers. I was there and I did not witness anything like that but obviously if it did then that was wrong but I have no doubt the major factor here was the complete lack of any organisation. Interestingly I work with a Liverpool season ticket holder and when I was discussing this with him he told me there had been a similar situation against Everton recently but I guess it would suit your agenda to blame Stoke fans for that too
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 28, 2016 9:48:15 GMT
No mate the organisation was appalling before the coaches turned up and before the crush even started.
OK, so the organisation was appalling before the crush started. What started the crush? Were police horses, stewards or the police purposefully pushing fans into a corner? I'm fucking sick of arguing the point on this one and have been for years (since Barnsley) as a large percentage of fans are too quick to blame everyone else but themselves. And here, yet again, is more of the same.
I don't know what caused the crush because I was already in the ground before it started.
What I do know, (because I was there) is the crowd management was rank amateurish before hand anyway.
There was no discernible system for marshalling people to the turnstiles, with stewards contradicting each other with their instructions.
We were told to move forward by one set, to be then told by the next set to move back to where we had just come from, there was two police horses right into the crowd for no apparent reason, the whole thing just seemed completely unorganised and they didn't seem to know what they were doing.
We got in okay but the first thing people were talking about when we got to the other side of the turnstiles was how amateurish it was getting in.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 9:54:55 GMT
Fucking hell - three pages into a thread that blames the police, stewards and coaches for issues before the game and we finally get a post that may explain the real issue behind the crush. This is why many people outside football couldn't give a flying fuck about the game and its followers. I was there and I did not witness anything like that but obviously if it did then that was wrong but I have no doubt the major factor here was the complete lack of any organisation. Interestingly I work with a Liverpool season ticket holder and when I was discussing this with him he told me there had been a similar situation against Everton recently but I guess it would suit your agenda to blame Stoke fans for that too What agenda? I'm pointing out that after fuck knows how many posts someone has either the nouse or bottle to point out that Stoke fans were pushing in a queue. Something that no one thought to bring up before. It really is hard fucking work at times. What's your agenda? Blame everyone else?
|
|
|
Post by jpm64 on Jan 28, 2016 10:00:11 GMT
I was there and I did not witness anything like that but obviously if it did then that was wrong but I have no doubt the major factor here was the complete lack of any organisation. Interestingly I work with a Liverpool season ticket holder and when I was discussing this with him he told me there had been a similar situation against Everton recently but I guess it would suit your agenda to blame Stoke fans for that too What agenda? I'm pointing out that after fuck knows how many posts someone has either the nouse or bottle to point out that Stoke fans were pushing in a queue. Something that no one thought to bring up before. It really is hard fucking work at times. What's your agenda? Blame everyone else? I'm not getting in to an argument with you. I was there with 2 kids and I know what I saw. You were not but of course yo know better than anyone else !
|
|
|
Post by crownmeking on Jan 28, 2016 10:05:51 GMT
But they are absolutely brilliant at manipulating the media and local politicians and presenting themselves as Victims aren't they? Showed their true colours tonight. Hypocritical cunts. The victims in what sense? If that's Hillsborough related it's incredibly insensitive. And also complete bullshit.
|
|
|
Post by jeycov on Jan 28, 2016 10:12:20 GMT
I was there and I did not witness anything like that but obviously if it did then that was wrong but I have no doubt the major factor here was the complete lack of any organisation. Interestingly I work with a Liverpool season ticket holder and when I was discussing this with him he told me there had been a similar situation against Everton recently but I guess it would suit your agenda to blame Stoke fans for that too What agenda? I'm pointing out that after fuck knows how many posts someone has either the nouse or bottle to point out that Stoke fans were pushing in a queue. Something that no one thought to bring up before. It really is hard fucking work at times. What's your agenda? Blame everyone else? A FEW Stoke fans were pushing in the queues Many WERE BEEN PUSHED. Photos and video seem to show this I was one of the "fortunate' ones in the ground before kick off, but made aware of the situation re empty seats all around us and first hand accounts of those arriving up to 20 minutes after kick off The system to deal with away fans was poor -policing, stewarding, parking advice inadequate Liverpool football club must have been aware of the problems and with the officials, should have considered delaying the kick off and keeping those fans informed imo In an ideal world fans would have lined up in an orderly fashion to eventually get into the ground, having arrived in plenty of time No one factor caused the problem Fortunately no major injuries Unfortunately a frightening experience for many
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2016 10:45:42 GMT
If this is a reference to Hillsborough, I think it's inappropriate. Within a few weeks we will see what the Inquest jury concludes about the causes of the deaths of the 96 fans , but in any case I don't think it's reasonable to make any link between failings in advance planning and stewarding by LFC at Anfield last night with what happened at a different ground 27 years ago. Malcolm, I have always had the utmost respect for you and the work the FSF have done in helping highlight the failings which led to the awful tragedy at Hillsborough and the fact that the fans were in no way to blame However I think your comments on this issue are unfair and you clearly did not witness what went on before Tuesday's game. I was there with my teenage son and daughter and the scenes were frankly appalling and my kids and many others were distressed and genuinely frightened. I have no doubt that had someone fallen in that crush we would have been looking at a potential fatality. I know the coaches arrived late and that is an issue for Stoke to look at but the crowd management was shambolic and when everyone heard that the game had kicked off on time it led to more anger and pushing and shoving. There was no sign of any organisation and no announcements made. People were just left to fend for themselves !! Once in the ground ( 20 mins after kick off ) I complained to a steward and said that in light of what LFC had gone through in the past I would have expected more sensitivity towards situations like this.... At this point he threatened to eject me ! We then had the announcement to Stoke fans over the tannoy I honestly thought it was going to be an apology but NO we were being told to sit down ( whilst the whole of the Kop stood !!! ) So I think it is perfectly reasonable to draw comparisons with what happened 27 years ago and not to do so would be wrong. I think rather than minimising what happened on Tuesday you should be leading the calls for a full apology from LFC for their negligence and aggressive attitudes of stewards for daring to be critical of them. To reassure you, I am absolutely not minimising what happened. I have encouraged people above to report their experiences outside the ground to Stoke city, the FSF and the Supporters council. It is clear from what I've read that something went seriously wrong, and that should be investigated, and acted upon. Similarly if there are complaints about stewards inside the ground. My main point on Hillsborough was that you can't say it's disrespectful to those who died for the Kop to stand without also saying it's disrespectful for Stoke City fans, and those of any club, to do so. But I don't think it is disrespectful. And I don't think it's helpful to bring Hillsborough into it because it's at Anfield. Safety of fans is very important at all grounds. No more nor no less so at Liverpool than any other ground, just because it was their fans involved in a tragedy at a different ground 27 years ago. The sit down announcement was of course absurd, and I agree could be provocative given the failure to manage the situation by the club. Clubs do this, knowing it will be completely ineffective, to cover their backs with the local licensing authority. What you may not know is that three years ago a Stoke fan formally complained to the LFC and Liverpool City Council about the failure of LFC to make all the Stoke fans sit down. The announcer did say "following complaints from your own supporters". If that's true, because of previous experience they may well be particularly sensitive about that possibility (for all I know it might be the same person who complained). Modern PA systems do enable differentiation between different parts of the ground, so it is possible there may have been an announcement on the Kop also. I know that in the past LFC have made attempts to enforce sitting on the Kop.
|
|
|
Post by staffsvilla on Jan 28, 2016 11:25:10 GMT
The simple solution that would of avoided all this was for LFC to have put the kick off back to allow all the Stoke fans to get in however we all know why this did not and could not happen, football sold its soul to television a long time ago and now we fans are paying a heavy price in more ways than one ! That game was televised to around 20 countries there is no way the ko was ever getting put back I'm afraid when you look at the big picture the inconvenience and potential dangers to a couple of thousand away fans counts for a big fat fuck all
|
|
|
Post by jeycov on Jan 28, 2016 11:30:21 GMT
Malcolm, where can I get a copy of this independent report, is it online? here you go hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/report/You can also access all the documents submitted to the panel. There's a huge amount of that, but it is all there if you want to follow a particular point or piece of evidence. As far as sharing concerns beyond our own fanzine / twitter, comments can be sent to enquiries@football-league.co.uk as well as supporters@stokecityfc.com. customerservices@liverpoolfc.com I guess some photos/ video evidence will help, I would suggest some constructive comments too!
|
|
|
Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 28, 2016 11:31:21 GMT
The simple solution that would of avoided all this was for LFC to have put the kick off back to allow all the Stoke fans to get in however we all know why this did not and could not happen, football sold its soul to television a long time ago and now we fans are paying a heavy price in more ways than one ! That game was televised to around 20 countries there is no way the ko was ever getting put back I'm afraid when you look at the big picture the inconvenience and potential dangers to a couple of thousand away fans counts for a big fat fuck all I fear you are right, but the question should be firmly asked
|
|