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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 20, 2016 15:47:27 GMT
Dave claims Stoke fans HATE Arsenal david, if it's true then people who hate someone or something will find it almost impossible to be objective. Geoffrey...You have displayed over and over again that you have no comprehension of what it means to support a football club and invest heavily into it emotionally, financially and wholeheartedly. You are a passive, neutral bystander who can't and will never understand or even try to understand how it is OUR club and OUR player that has been wronged in this instance. Ramsey broke his leg courtesy of an accidental tackle. Whilst his teammates were jumping around like demented baboons pleading with the referee to send him off, a Stoke City player was tending to the badly injured Arsenal player, comforting him and trying to make sure he was OK? Another Stoke City player left the pitch in tears, not because he was upset at being sent off but because he's a genuine lad who was deeply upset to have injured, accidentally, another player. As he was being carried off the pitch with Arsenal fans abusing a visibly shaken and upset Ryan Shawcross, 3 sides of the Britannia Stadium were applauding the Arsenal player as he was stretchered off the pitch and into a waiting ambulance. What did Aaron Ramsey do in response to this? Refused to accept his immediate apology. Refused to accept his apology further down the line. Was allegedly consulted by his national manager as to whether he could play with Ryan should the national manager convince him to play for Wales and responded negatively and in the build up to his first return to the Brit had leaked to his media friends that he was unsure as to whether he would shake Ryan's hand in the pre-match line up. Before he'd really had any abuse from Stoke fans, he scored and ran in front of Stoke fans who'd given him no abuse with his fingers to his lips. None of that has ever truly been publicised. All that has happened is that a totally classless football club with a manager who is as hypocritical as they come has besmirched the good name of our captain and our football club, have refused apologies and have taken pop shots from 159 miles away. The player himself, probably following the lead and advice of his manager, has done little to diffuse the situation either. Meanwhile, Ryan is yet to have a bad game against Arsenal, is yet to make any derogatory comments towards Arsenal fans, Wenger or Ramsey even though he would be more than entitled to do so and doesn't even flinch to the vile abuse that Arsenal have handed out to him. No cupping his ears, no shushing them as he walks off the pitch. He simply rises above it and conducts himself like the top professional, nice man and top bloke he is. Why would any Stoke fan want or need to be impartial. Arsenal (and you if it offends you so much) can go fuck themselves. We owe them nothing and they will never get anything but abuse when they set foot into the Britannia Stadium and rightly so.
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 20, 2016 15:47:49 GMT
Fair enough dave, if you now admit your posts are not rational that's a step in the right direction.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 20, 2016 15:52:32 GMT
Fair enough dave, if you now admit your posts are not rational that's a step in the right direction. I am 100% biased towards Stoke City and I'm also 100% capable of seeing when my club, it's players or its supporters are in the wrong. I make no apologies for that but that doesn't mean that my posts aren't rational. My posts, thoughts and comments are borne out of watching the game and loving my club, IN THE FLESH. I don't sit on the fence. I say what I think and say what I see. You should try it sometime, preferably on another forum when we don't have to suffer your tedious, self righteous comments borne of your superior neutrality.
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 20, 2016 16:00:39 GMT
Whatever happened in that game all those years ago is history and cannot be undone or changed, what can be changed though dave is both Arsenal and Stoke fans carrying on this grudge match and vendetta against Ryan and Ramsey. Your earlier post about hate was in my opinion an attempt to intensify and continue this ridiculous state of affairs.
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Post by metalhead on Jan 20, 2016 16:09:54 GMT
Dave claims Stoke fans HATE Arsenal david, if it's true then people who hate someone or something will find it almost impossible to be objective. Geoffrey...You have displayed over and over again that you have no comprehension of what it means to support a football club and invest heavily into it emotionally, financially and wholeheartedly. You are a passive, neutral bystander who can't and will never understand or even try to understand how it is OUR club and OUR player that has been wronged in this instance. Ramsey broke his leg courtesy of an accidental tackle. Whilst his teammates were jumping around like demented baboons pleading with the referee to send him off, a Stoke City player was tending to the badly injured Arsenal player, comforting him and trying to make sure he was OK? Another Stoke City player left the pitch in tears, not because he was upset at being sent off but because he's a genuine lad who was deeply upset to have injured, accidentally, another player. As he was being carried off the pitch with Arsenal fans abusing a visibly shaken and upset Ryan Shawcross, 3 sides of the Britannia Stadium were applauding the Arsenal player as he was stretchered off the pitch and into a waiting ambulance. What did Aaron Ramsey do in response to this? Refused to accept his immediate apology. Refused to accept his apology further down the line. Was allegedly consulted by his national manager as to whether he could play with Ryan should the national manager convince him to play for Wales and responded negatively and in the build up to his first return to the Brit had leaked to his media friends that he was unsure as to whether he would shake Ryan's hand in the pre-match line up. Before he'd really had any abuse from Stoke fans, he scored and ran in front of Stoke fans who'd given him no abuse with his fingers to his lips. None of that has ever truly been publicised. All that has happened is that a totally classless football club with a manager who is as hypocritical as they come has besmirched the good name of our captain and our football club, have refused apologies and have taken pop shots from 159 miles away. The player himself, probably following the lead and advice of his manager, has done little to diffuse the situation either. Meanwhile, Ryan is yet to have a bad game against Arsenal, is yet to make any derogatory comments towards Arsenal fans, Wenger or Ramsey even though he would be more than entitled to do so and doesn't even flinch to the vile abuse that Arsenal have handed out to him. No cupping his ears, no shushing them as he walks off the pitch. He simply rises above it and conducts himself like the top professional, nice man and top bloke he is. Why would any Stoke fan want or need to be impartial. Arsenal (and you if it offends you so much) can go fuck themselves. We owe them nothing and they will never get anything but abuse when they set foot into the Britannia Stadium and rightly so. Nail on the head right there.
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Post by metalhead on Jan 20, 2016 16:11:00 GMT
Whatever happened in that game all those years ago is history and cannot be undone or changed, what can be changed though dave is both Arsenal and Stoke fans carrying on this grudge match and vendetta against Ryan and Ramsey. Your earlier post about hate was in my opinion an attempt to intensify and continue this ridiculous state of affairs. You are a bit of a special snowflake aren't you?
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Post by daveandeddy on Jan 20, 2016 16:15:07 GMT
Whatever happened in that game all those years ago is history and cannot be undone or changed, what can be changed though dave is both Arsenal and Stoke fans carrying on this grudge match and vendetta against Ryan and Ramsey. Your earlier post about hate was in my opinion an attempt to intensify and continue this ridiculous state of affairs. You are either the biggest wind up merchant this side of the North Pole ( i want to believe this to be so ) OR you are a complete and utter dipshit
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 16:26:20 GMT
25 pages.
Are we signing him?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 16:26:32 GMT
Whatever happened in that game all those years ago is history and cannot be undone or changed, what can be changed though dave is both Arsenal and Stoke fans carrying on this grudge match and vendetta against Ryan and Ramsey. Your earlier post about hate was in my opinion an attempt to intensify and continue this ridiculous state of affairs. geoff your message board persona was mildly amusing for a few weeks, mildly irritating for a few years but now it's just tedious beyond belief. You can't even decide if you're a Stoke fan or not, you started off as a "fan of potteries football" and now it's "we" this and "the lads" this. You've been rumbled time to let it go.....
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jan 20, 2016 16:27:51 GMT
Fair enough dave, if you now admit your posts are not rational that's a step in the right direction. Geoff,you are aware of the fact that you can be partisan and still be rational aren't you? The 2 terms are not mutually exclusive of each other. Poor reposte by you really, just looks like an intentional ignorance by you so you can claim davejohnno is being "irrational" and therefore diminish the points made in his post. Being partisan can cloud rational thought processes but in no way can you say it is guaranteed to do so and therefore you certainly can't try to prove he is being irrational. Very poor really whichever way you look at it.
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 20, 2016 16:30:45 GMT
Time for you prestwich to deal with the thread subject which when it comes to my posts you never seem to do.
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 20, 2016 16:33:09 GMT
Hello mick. You can't hate and be objective mick, I'm pretty certain of that.
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Post by bringmesunshine on Jan 20, 2016 16:38:09 GMT
Fair enough dave, if you now admit your posts are not rational that's a step in the right direction. Geoff,you are aware of the fact that you can be partisan and still be rational aren't you? The 2 terms are not mutually exclusive of each other. Poor reposte by you really, just looks like an intentional ignorance by you so you can claim davejohnno is being "irrational" and therefore diminish the points made in his post. Being partisan can cloud rational thought processes but in no way can you say it is guaranteed to do so and therefore you certainly can't try to prove he is being irrational. Very poor really whichever way you look at it. I tried to explain that to him an hour ago but he’s either ignorant or just plain stupid, he could conceivably be both.
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Post by Davef on Jan 20, 2016 16:43:02 GMT
Hello mick. You can't hate and be objective mick, I'm pretty certain of that. Of course you can. Is Arsene Wenger a good manager? Yes. Has he been a great manager in the past? Yes. Do I hate the club he manages? Yes. Is Aaron Ramsey a good footballer? Yes. Do I hate the club he plays for? Yes.
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 20, 2016 16:49:10 GMT
What do you hate about Arsenal Dave?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 16:49:18 GMT
Time for you prestwich to deal with the thread subject which when it comes to my posts you never seem to do. Your posts are just a series of cliches with no opinion in them whatsoever, what would you like me to address??
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 20, 2016 16:54:04 GMT
I'm giving an opinion on this thread prestwich, I'm saying time for this issue to be confined to history for the sake of Ryan and Ramsey.
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Post by metalhead on Jan 20, 2016 16:56:22 GMT
Hello mick. You can't hate and be objective mick, I'm pretty certain of that. That is fucking arse gravy of the finest quality. I don't think anyone on this forum likes Alex Ferguson whatsoever, but I reckon most people acknowledge him as one of the best managers in football history. That's objectivity in a fucking nutshell. What you're effectively saying is that NOBODY on the entire planet can be objective, because any prejudice, no matter how small, clouds their opinion. That's just not true at all mate.
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Post by metalhead on Jan 20, 2016 16:56:57 GMT
I'm giving an opinion on this thread prestwich, I'm saying time for this issue to be confined to history for the sake of Ryan and Ramsey. And I don't think ANYONE on this forum disagrees with you. The problem is, they (Arsenal) are just as culpable to the fact this shit storm hasn't disappeared.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jan 20, 2016 16:58:10 GMT
Hello mick. You can't hate and be objective mick, I'm pretty certain of that. 1) Yes you can. It's quite easy to be objective and see every viewpoint whilst not necessarily agreeing with them (or even hating the alternatives) 2) as long as you can do that then you can quite easily form a rational thought process. If it wasn't possible then no-one on the planet would be "rational" when they put forward an opinion. Indeed, the best opinions (which are subjective by their very nature) are usually the product of rational,objective thought which has led them to that conclusion in the first place. Thanks for coming geoff...no really,you shouldn't have.
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Jan 20, 2016 16:59:35 GMT
I'm giving an opinion on this thread prestwich, I'm saying time for this issue to be confined to history for the sake of Ryan and Ramsey. And presumably by your logic, as it's an opinion (therefore subjective) it also must be irrational...so we can ignore it Hoist by your own pseudo-intellectual p'tard!
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 20, 2016 17:04:05 GMT
Leaving Stoke and Arsenal fans out of the this for a moment mick, what do you think the rest of the PL fans think on this whole issue, or don't you care.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 20, 2016 17:04:14 GMT
Whatever happened in that game all those years ago is history and cannot be undone or changed, what can be changed though dave is both Arsenal and Stoke fans carrying on this grudge match and vendetta against Ryan and Ramsey. Your earlier post about hate was in my opinion an attempt to intensify and continue this ridiculous state of affairs. I have no real desire for it to end and even if it were to end in relation to the Ramsey event specifically, Arsenal would still find something to moan about in regard to our team being too physical, our ground too cold and our crowd too hostile. Hostility in football grounds is all too rare an occurrence these days and the game is worse for it. I love the Arsenal fixture at home. It's the best atmosphere of the season and a game that is played with an intensity because there is a genuine dislike between both clubs, both sets of players and both sets of supporters. Long may that continue!
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 20, 2016 17:12:30 GMT
Well at least that's an honest post dave.
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Post by daveandeddy on Jan 20, 2016 17:15:36 GMT
Whatever happened in that game all those years ago is history and cannot be undone or changed, what can be changed though dave is both Arsenal and Stoke fans carrying on this grudge match and vendetta against Ryan and Ramsey. Your earlier post about hate was in my opinion an attempt to intensify and continue this ridiculous state of affairs. I have no real desire for it to end and even if it were to end in relation to the Ramsey event specifically, Arsenal would still find something to moan about in regard to our team being too physical, our ground too cold and our crowd too hostile. Hostility in football grounds is all too rare an occurrence these days and the game is worse for it. I love the Arsenal fixture at home. It's the best atmosphere of the season and a game that is played with an intensity because there is a genuine dislike between both clubs, both sets of players and both sets of supporters. Long may that continue! This ..... If we were truly honest how many of us here would rather get the hackles up watching Arsenal OR get mildly exited watching Bournemouth No brainer .... take the passion out of a game and they are poorer for it
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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 20, 2016 17:19:06 GMT
Well at least that's an honest post dave. Every post I've ever made is an honest one.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 17:24:54 GMT
Leaving Stoke and Arsenal fans out of the this for a moment mick, what do you think the rest of the PL fans think on this whole issue, or don't you care. Or putting it another way why should we as Stoke fans care what other PL fans think?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2016 17:25:41 GMT
Well at least that's an honest post dave. How very patronising.........
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Post by roylandstoke on Jan 20, 2016 17:27:11 GMT
Thanks to Johnno for articulating what is is to be a fan of a great football club.
You have summed up my own feelings on this issue. If others don't get it, then they are missing out on the depth of emotion that makes following a football club worthwhile.
Some people seem to watch football. Others are fans of a club and support that club no matter what. I know which of these groups I belong to.
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Post by roylandstoke on Jan 20, 2016 17:28:25 GMT
This is a non-story propagated by the pro-Arsenal loving press and this chant is the result of Ramsey never being man enough to accept Ryan's sincere apology for something that most knowledgable pundits and ex-pros saw as a freak accident as a result of two players going in too hard in a part of the field where it was stupidity from both of them. In any other walk of life I'd call Ramsay a cunt, and I see no reason why I should treat him any different because he's a nogger player. That also goes for his manager who started the whole thing. Has he ever taken the sting out of this situation by admitting that his comments were an overreaction to the incident? Has he fuck! Has Wenger villified his own supporters for chanting that they wish Shawcross was dead? Has he fuck! And until they both sort their heads out then anything goes. I'm sick of Stoke supporters getting all the blame for what's going on. I agree with that nogger commentator who says that Shawcross and Ramsay should shake hands publicly before one of our games, but will that happen? Will it fuck! Why? Because Ramsay and Wenger still hold a grudge against Shawcross. So let's lay the blame firmly where it lies for all this shit... at their door! OS Along with Johnno's post on page 25 this needs repeating.
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