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Post by winston on Jan 19, 2016 12:22:05 GMT
No chance of winning? Swansea won 3-0 there not long after. Our second string gave them a good game. He did it because he shit himself. Do you really think we wouldn't have picked up the six or so points we needed in the remaining three months of the season? With the same squad that reached the cup final the year before plus and extra £20m investment? I was referring to the competition that we had no chance of winning with CL teams dropping into it, but seeing we lost the home leg it would have been a difficult to get anything anyway at Valencia. Our premier league status and final position was much more important. I thought we nearly beat them anyway? So surely we must have had a chance. We are not going to win the Prem (this year), we won't win every cup every year. Shall we just not bother then?
And why is our final position so important? You'd take 11th against 13th and winning a cup? Are you actually the man himself?
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Post by robboleek on Jan 19, 2016 12:40:00 GMT
I remember coming to book everything, the planning, the thought, the excitement of me and my mates going to watch Stoke at European and Spanish giants Valencia in a competitive game where we had a realistic chance of getting even further, then in the days building up to the match rumours about the squad that would travel circulated, but we were all to excited to be ruffled about it. Then after a fucking brilliant night in Barcelona the night before, we woke up, hungover but running on adrenaline, buzzing our tits off. We drove to Valencia in great spirits Only on arrival at the main square did we realise that dickbrain Pulis had sent the B team because Premier League safety was more important. What a load of bollocks. It ruined the trip. Yeah we had a fantastic day out and it was great to see so many Stokies there. But the bottom line was, hundreds if not thousands of stokies saved up for that trip especially and put every effort to go over there and support the lads in red n white with the hope of overturning the first leg. Only to be greeted by TP sending a massively under strength team. Never forgive him for that, and he went down in my estimation massively that day. (and has done even more so since.. But that's another story) So I'll finally say a big fat fuck you Pulis. Hughes will get us into Europe and when he does I'll be 100% confident he'll throw the kitchen sink at it for the fans! I think about three and half thousand Stoke fans would agree with that. He lost us in Valencia. :this !! I was firmly in the Pulis camp until this....... It was te lines he delivered like 'save up boys and girls' in the press etc...... Save up for what ? To watch our C side !? Cunt
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 19, 2016 12:46:19 GMT
Fuck off you went for a piss up and a good time. Pulis did everything in the interest of SCFC. He did it in the best interests of Tony Pulis ...He was/is only interested in his £1m+ bonus he gets every season for survival We had 32 points going into that game and he didn't back HIS expensively assembled squad to get his mythical 40 points DISGRACEFUL and with still 3 months of the season remaining It's all he's ever bothered about - his bonus. I see Palace are taking him to court over his last seven figure payout.
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Post by BristolMick on Jan 19, 2016 15:36:05 GMT
He did it in the best interests of Tony Pulis ...He was/is only interested in his £1m+ bonus he gets every season for survival We had 32 points going into that game and he didn't back HIS expensively assembled squad to get his mythical 40 points DISGRACEFUL and with still 3 months of the season remaining It's all he's ever bothered about - his bonus. I see Palace are taking him to court over his last seven figure payout. I missed that but here is the link www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3402955/Crystal-Palace-ready-start-proceedings-against-West-Brom-manager-Tony-Pulis-reclaim-bonus-1million.htmlI don't like sticking up for Pulis but if the bonus is due for keeping them up then he achieved it. Palace look to have manipulated a situation to avoid paying maybe? BM
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 17:09:51 GMT
Mick, I thought that too. But what I've read (and I can't find it now) is that the deal Included starting the next season. Personally if the deal was just to keep Palace up Pulis earn't his money (and some for Palace !) GD
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 19, 2016 17:28:25 GMT
He is probably due it for keeping them up as you say, however the fact he requested it early shows pretty clearly he was planning on fucking off anyway. Be interesting to see if it goes to court as TP doesn't have the best record there
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Post by padders01 on Jan 19, 2016 17:37:01 GMT
He is probably due it for keeping them up as you say, however the fact he requested it early shows pretty clearly he was planning on fucking off anyway. Be interesting to see if it goes to court as TP doesn't have the best record there Bar his speeding fine/ban when he got let off because "he was too important to the City"
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 19, 2016 17:58:48 GMT
If you cannot get your head around people getting pissed off about not trying to make any attempt to win but rather hoping you get lucky in football matches in general, never mind a cup final and a knock out European tie then I wonder what sort of sports you do like. I guess if you are an apologist/forever grateful type you are not going to question anything at all. Pulis played a second string side in Valencia. We lost. Pulis played his strongest side in the Cup Final. We lost. In fact about the only criticism of Pulis that could be levelled Cup Final wise was not playing a weakened side the week before in the defeat of Arsenal. But as that is one of my favourite Stoke games ever, its not a criticism Id level. But its about all I can think of. Maybe that and playing Ethers. I tend to agree with this. I think the main reason we lost in the Cup Final ( apart from the obvious fact that, overall, Man City were at a different level to us at that time) was that we suffered particularly from injuries to Huth and Etherington, and that our squad at that time wasn't deep enough to compensate. We have a much stronger squad now with much less reliance on key individuals. He took a risk with Etherington which didn't work out, and which LH wouldn't have to take today in a similar situation. I think to blame TP for not winning the Final is unreasonable.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 19, 2016 18:21:26 GMT
I remember my own disbelief when I heard the team, and I think it is fair to criticise TP for misleading the fans on what he might do.
However, on the decision itself, I don't think it's anything like as 'black and white' as many are now making out with the wonderful benefit of hindsight, and a little selective memory. There was a great deal of real concern among fans about our league position, partly because of our poor form and also knowledge of the effect the Europa had also had on other clubs league position. We had 2 important league games coming up, both of which we won. Of course we will never know what would have happened had we sent the 'first team' to Valencia. But had we lost, and then lost one or both of those games, I have a feeling TP would have come in for some very heavy stick on this board for not getting his priorities right.
I think the fact that we had lost the home leg was also a significant factor. Had we won it, TP might have taken different decisions - again, we'll never know. In the event, the so-called 2nd team didn't do at all badly, only lost 1-0 and if Kenwyn in particular had managed to put away one or two of his chances, we might have got a result. Would the first team have done any better ? On paper they certainly should have done, but they hadn't exactly been pulling up trees in the period before and again, there is no way of ever knowing what would have happened.
I think one can accuse Pulis of many things - and there is obviously a legitimate debate about priorities around that game - but 'bottling it' isn't one of them in my view. Almost the reverse - he didn't bottle doing what he thought was right despite knowing, as he must have done, the reaction it would get from the travelling fans ( and obviously still gets judging by this thread)
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 19, 2016 18:25:57 GMT
I remember my own disbelief when I heard the team, and I think it is fair to criticise TP for misleading the fans on what he might do. However, on the decision itself, I don't think it's anything like as 'black and white' as many are now making out with the wonderful benefit of hindsight, and a little selective memory. There was a great deal of real concern among fans about our league position, partly because of our poor form and also knowledge of the effect the Europa had also had on other clubs league position. We had 2 important league games coming up, both of which we won. Of course we will never know what would have happened had we sent the 'first team' to Valencia. But had we lost, and then lost one or both of those games, I have a feeling TP would have come in for some very heavy stick on this board for not getting his priorities right. I think the fact that we had lost the home leg was also a significant factor. Had we won it, TP might have taken different decisions - again, we'll never know. In the event, the so-called 2nd team didn't do at all badly, only lost 1-0 and if Kenwyn in particular had managed to put away one or two of his chances, we might have got a result. Would the first team have done any better ? On paper they certainly should have done, but they hadn't exactly been pulling up trees in the period before and again, there is no way of ever knowing what would have happened. I think one can accuse Pulis of many things - and there is obviously a legitimate debate about priorities around that game - but 'bottling it' isn't one of them in my view. Almost the reverse - he didn't bottle doing what he thought was right despite knowing, as he must have done, the reaction it would get from the travelling fans ( and obviously still gets judging by this thread)
Whether people want to describe it as 'bottling it' or describe it as something else Malcolm, I really don't think it can be denied, that there's something very, very wrong about not even attempting to fill your substitutes bench for a tie against Valencia in the last 16 of a major European competition.
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Post by BristolMick on Jan 19, 2016 18:39:53 GMT
I remember my own disbelief when I heard the team, and I think it is fair to criticise TP for misleading the fans on what he might do. However, on the decision itself, I don't think it's anything like as 'black and white' as many are now making out with the wonderful benefit of hindsight, and a little selective memory. There was a great deal of real concern among fans about our league position, partly because of our poor form and also knowledge of the effect the Europa had also had on other clubs league position. We had 2 important league games coming up, both of which we won. Of course we will never know what would have happened had we sent the 'first team' to Valencia. But had we lost, and then lost one or both of those games, I have a feeling TP would have come in for some very heavy stick on this board for not getting his priorities right. I think the fact that we had lost the home leg was also a significant factor. Had we won it, TP might have taken different decisions - again, we'll never know. In the event, the so-called 2nd team didn't do at all badly, only lost 1-0 and if Kenwyn in particular had managed to put away one or two of his chances, we might have got a result. Would the first team have done any better ? On paper they certainly should have done, but they hadn't exactly been pulling up trees in the period before and again, there is no way of ever knowing what would have happened. I think one can accuse Pulis of many things - and there is obviously a legitimate debate about priorities around that game - but 'bottling it' isn't one of them in my view. Almost the reverse - he didn't bottle doing what he thought was right despite knowing, as he must have done, the reaction it would get from the travelling fans ( and obviously still gets judging by this thread) Of course he bottled it Malcolm, he practically threw the tie and the Spanish press was taking the piss for our his approach in the papers on the day of the game. He had only one focus and that was to collect his £1m bonus by staying up and he acted like remaining in Europe or taking the first team or even filling the subs bench to that game was going to jeopardise that. His actions were those of a man who wanted to get knocked out. Unforgiveable He not only pissed the fans off, most of whom were mainly on his side until then but he must have pissed off some of his senior players too for denying them the opportunity of playing against Champions League opponents in one of the famous stadiums of Europe in a very important game. You can make comparisons with the squad size then compared to now if you like but I would bet you my last pound that if Mark Hughes was our manager at that time in the same circumstances we would have taken a much stronger team and we would have filled the bloody bench! Valencia was pivotal in Pulis's relationship with the fans, possibly the chairman and maybe some of the players and was the beginning of the end for him. It didn't change my view of him though, it just reinforced it! BM
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 19, 2016 18:43:59 GMT
He is probably due it for keeping them up as you say, however the fact he requested it early shows pretty clearly he was planning on fucking off anyway. Be interesting to see if it goes to court as TP doesn't have the best record there Bar his speeding fine/ban when he got let off because "he was too important to the City" Good point (or good no points as it was) I had forgotten about that, still probably didn't make up for his losses in the other case.
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jan 19, 2016 18:55:19 GMT
I remember my own disbelief when I heard the team, and I think it is fair to criticise TP for misleading the fans on what he might do. However, on the decision itself, I don't think it's anything like as 'black and white' as many are now making out with the wonderful benefit of hindsight, and a little selective memory. There was a great deal of real concern among fans about our league position, partly because of our poor form and also knowledge of the effect the Europa had also had on other clubs league position. We had 2 important league games coming up, both of which we won. Of course we will never know what would have happened had we sent the 'first team' to Valencia. But had we lost, and then lost one or both of those games, I have a feeling TP would have come in for some very heavy stick on this board for not getting his priorities right. I think the fact that we had lost the home leg was also a significant factor. Had we won it, TP might have taken different decisions - again, we'll never know. In the event, the so-called 2nd team didn't do at all badly, only lost 1-0 and if Kenwyn in particular had managed to put away one or two of his chances, we might have got a result. Would the first team have done any better ? On paper they certainly should have done, but they hadn't exactly been pulling up trees in the period before and again, there is no way of ever knowing what would have happened. I think one can accuse Pulis of many things - and there is obviously a legitimate debate about priorities around that game - but 'bottling it' isn't one of them in my view. Almost the reverse - he didn't bottle doing what he thought was right despite knowing, as he must have done, the reaction it would get from the travelling fans ( and obviously still gets judging by this thread) Malcolm, the fact that the team he put out gave it a good go is irrelevant. He had no idea they'd do so, he picked a team he expected to lose. He picked players who couldn't get near the bench at the time, and he only named three subs that night. As far as the effect the competition was having on us, why didn't he use his squad better? Why didn't Ric or Jerome feature more rather than flogging Walters into the ground? Why didn't he sign a winger in either of the two windows he had to do so? This 'real concern' you speak of - again, it was February, we had 30 points in the bag, there were three months of the season left - are you saying TP didn't trust the team he'd taken to the cup final and then spent another £20m on to get the 2-3 wins in that time to stay up?
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 19, 2016 19:01:06 GMT
I remember my own disbelief when I heard the team, and I think it is fair to criticise TP for misleading the fans on what he might do. However, on the decision itself, I don't think it's anything like as 'black and white' as many are now making out with the wonderful benefit of hindsight, and a little selective memory. There was a great deal of real concern among fans about our league position, partly because of our poor form and also knowledge of the effect the Europa had also had on other clubs league position. We had 2 important league games coming up, both of which we won. Of course we will never know what would have happened had we sent the 'first team' to Valencia. But had we lost, and then lost one or both of those games, I have a feeling TP would have come in for some very heavy stick on this board for not getting his priorities right. I think the fact that we had lost the home leg was also a significant factor. Had we won it, TP might have taken different decisions - again, we'll never know. In the event, the so-called 2nd team didn't do at all badly, only lost 1-0 and if Kenwyn in particular had managed to put away one or two of his chances, we might have got a result. Would the first team have done any better ? On paper they certainly should have done, but they hadn't exactly been pulling up trees in the period before and again, there is no way of ever knowing what would have happened. I think one can accuse Pulis of many things - and there is obviously a legitimate debate about priorities around that game - but 'bottling it' isn't one of them in my view. Almost the reverse - he didn't bottle doing what he thought was right despite knowing, as he must have done, the reaction it would get from the travelling fans ( and obviously still gets judging by this thread) Malcolm, the fact that the team he put out gave it a good go is irrelevant. He had no idea they'd do so, he picked a team he expected to lose. He picked players who couldn't get near the bench at the time, and he only named three subs that night. As far as the effect the competition was having on us, why didn't he use his squad better? Why didn't Ric or Jerome feature more rather than flogging Walters into the ground? Why didn't he sign a winger in either of the two windows he had to do so? This 'real concern' you speak of - again, it was February, we had 30 points in the bag, there were three months of the season left - are you saying TP didn't trust the team he'd taken to the cup final and then spent another £20m on to get the 2-3 wins in that time to stay up? Some people will defend him to the hilt despite the evidence. He does a lot of work for charity don't you know.
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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Jan 19, 2016 19:12:08 GMT
Oh what joys another thread sticking the boot into the ex manager
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Jan 19, 2016 19:43:52 GMT
Malcolm, the fact that the team he put out gave it a good go is irrelevant. He had no idea they'd do so, he picked a team he expected to lose. He picked players who couldn't get near the bench at the time, and he only named three subs that night. As far as the effect the competition was having on us, why didn't he use his squad better? Why didn't Ric or Jerome feature more rather than flogging Walters into the ground? Why didn't he sign a winger in either of the two windows he had to do so? This 'real concern' you speak of - again, it was February, we had 30 points in the bag, there were three months of the season left - are you saying TP didn't trust the team he'd taken to the cup final and then spent another £20m on to get the 2-3 wins in that time to stay up? Some people will defend him to the hilt despite the evidence. He does a lot of work for charity don't you know. I'm not sure whether "some people" is a reference to my post or not, but in case it is, I didn't mention his charity work which, worthy though it is, in my view is totally irrelevant to any football debate. Neither am I 'defending' him, particularly. I didn't agree with his decision at the time, and I wouldn't now, mainly because it was too extreme - I think a 'mixed' team would probably have not been too unreasonable in the circumstances. But I posted because I think it should be a more balanced debate than many of the contributions on the thread recognise. but it's also rather against my better judgement to have allowed myself to get sucked into a debate about a manager who has left our club some time ago, which has been repeatedly been done to death on here, and which is by its nature irresolvable.
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Post by stokiet90 on Jan 19, 2016 19:47:20 GMT
So he did it just to piss everybody off? The reality is that we were in a competition played on a Thursday which we had no chance of winning and every chance of picking up injuries to key players. That's why he did it. What is the point in sport and in football then? We haven't much chance of winning the fa cup or league cup either. Should we throw those games as well? Fulham and Middlesbrough both reached the final of the same competition. Anything is possible. I've tried to avoid commenting on this thread but that game was the beginning of the end for pulis. He lost the trust if both the fans and the owner in one night. From having the safest job in football he became a man under pressure. What he did that night was inexcusable. Swansea and Norwich, both at home, with 3 months of the season left, were bigger games than a last 16 europa league game away at Valencia with 7000+ stoke fans in attendance? Says everything you need to know about our previous manager! bang on!!
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jan 19, 2016 19:52:03 GMT
Some people will defend him to the hilt despite the evidence. He does a lot of work for charity don't you know. I'm not sure whether "some people" is a reference to my post or not, but in case it is, I didn't mention his charity work which, worthy though it is, in my view is totally irrelevant to any football debate. Neither am I 'defending' him, particularly. I didn't agree with his decision at the time, and I wouldn't now, mainly because it was too extreme - I think a 'mixed' team would probably have not been too unreasonable in the circumstances. But I posted because I think it should be a more balanced debate than many of the contributions on the thread recognise. but it's also rather against my better judgement to have allowed myself to get sucked into a debate about a manager who has left our club some time ago, which has been repeatedly been done to death on here, and which is by its nature irresolvable. I don't see how you can present a balanced debate without answering those questions though Malcolm. None of the 'safety first' points stand up to any kind of scrutiny.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 19, 2016 19:52:14 GMT
Oh what joys another thread sticking the boot into the ex manager Steady on, they'll call you 'obsessed' in a minute, Mutters
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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Jan 19, 2016 19:54:09 GMT
Oh what joys another thread sticking the boot into the ex manager Steady on, they'll call you 'obsessed' in a minute, Mutters I await big chief Marky any minute
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 19, 2016 20:02:46 GMT
I'm not sure whether "some people" is a reference to my post or not, but in case it is, I didn't mention his charity work which, worthy though it is, in my view is totally irrelevant to any football debate. Neither am I 'defending' him, particularly. I didn't agree with his decision at the time, and I wouldn't now, mainly because it was too extreme - I think a 'mixed' team would probably have not been too unreasonable in the circumstances. But I posted because I think it should be a more balanced debate than many of the contributions on the thread recognise. but it's also rather against my better judgement to have allowed myself to get sucked into a debate about a manager who has left our club some time ago, which has been repeatedly been done to death on here, and which is by its nature irresolvable. I don't see how you can present a balanced debate without answering those questions though Malcolm. None of the 'safety first' points stand up to any kind of scrutiny. But contributions like, 'he only ever acted in the interests of getting hs survival bonus' are rooted in fact rather than being emotive, hogwash, Rob?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jan 19, 2016 20:13:03 GMT
I don't see how you can present a balanced debate without answering those questions though Malcolm. None of the 'safety first' points stand up to any kind of scrutiny. But contributions like, 'he only ever acted in the interests of getting hs survival bonus' are rooted in fact rather than being emotive, hogwash, Rob? I don't know anything about his bonus one way or the other. My instinct is that his natural insane caution took hold and he'd have done what he did if his bonus was a million quid or a chocolate orange and a saucy selfie from the Chairman. It was still a needless and indefensible kick in the nuts to the supporters though, whatever the intention, and a significant nail in his coffin. He deserved the stick he got for it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 20:13:59 GMT
It took 4 pages for you to appear Mr Momo GD
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 19, 2016 20:15:21 GMT
But contributions like, 'he only ever acted in the interests of getting hs survival bonus' are rooted in fact rather than being emotive, hogwash, Rob? I don't know anything about his bonus one way or the other. My instinct is that his natural insane caution took hold and he'd have done what he did if his bonus was a million quid or a chocolate orange and a saucy selfie from the Chairman. It was still a needless and indefensible kick in the nuts to the supporters though, whatever the intention, and a significant nail in his coffin. He deserved the stick he got for it. As was discussed four years ago. In depth!
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 19, 2016 20:17:27 GMT
It took 4 pages for you to appear Mr Momo GD It took you four years to 'go' with this one
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Post by chiefdelilah on Jan 19, 2016 20:18:51 GMT
I don't know anything about his bonus one way or the other. My instinct is that his natural insane caution took hold and he'd have done what he did if his bonus was a million quid or a chocolate orange and a saucy selfie from the Chairman. It was still a needless and indefensible kick in the nuts to the supporters though, whatever the intention, and a significant nail in his coffin. He deserved the stick he got for it. As was discussed four years ago. In depth! Yet you're still here just like I am and all the other sad f**kers!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2016 20:24:44 GMT
It took 4 pages for you to appear Mr Momo GD It took you four years to 'go' with this one Not really. it was about 15 minutes after Mr Merson made some quite interesting comments on Sky Sports. But as always Mr Momo why let facts get in the way ? x GD
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 19, 2016 20:29:20 GMT
It took you four years to 'go' with this one 15 minutes after Mr Merson made some quite interesting comments on Sky Sports. Now I know you're bullshitting. If that ever happens it will be one of the harbingers of the apocalypse
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 19, 2016 20:53:06 GMT
In the last few days I've seen Pulis referred to as a c*nt, dickhead, gimp and several other choice phrases.
In fact on another thread just now he was called a twat....for shouting instructions at his players.
But, according to some, anybody who defends Pulis or looks at him in a positive light is deluded, foolish, easily pleased etc etc.
How odd that Pulis is called vindictive, bitter, twisted, obsessive etc.....when those making the accusations are all the above and more.
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Post by MarkWolstanton on Jan 19, 2016 20:56:54 GMT
Pulis played a second string side in Valencia. We lost. Pulis played his strongest side in the Cup Final. We lost. In fact about the only criticism of Pulis that could be levelled Cup Final wise was not playing a weakened side the week before in the defeat of Arsenal. But as that is one of my favourite Stoke games ever, its not a criticism Id level. But its about all I can think of. Maybe that and playing Ethers. I tend to agree with this. I think the main reason we lost in the Cup Final ( apart from the obvious fact that, overall, Man City were at a different level to us at that time) was that we suffered particularly from injuries to Huth and Etherington, and that our squad at that time wasn't deep enough to compensate. We have a much stronger squad now with much less reliance on key individuals. He took a risk with Etherington which didn't work out, and which LH wouldn't have to take today in a similar situation. I think to blame TP for not winning the Final is unreasonable. I think that trying to portray my post as blaming Pulis for not winning the FA Cup is ingenuous. Im clearly remarking on the lack of attempt to win the game not failing to win the game. If Manchester City were so on a different planet how do you explain away Wigan twelve moths later against an even stronger Manchester City side? Did you watch that game? I'll explain it for you Malcolm. Wigan got the rewards of taking a positive approach to the game. Sometimes it works, sometimes not but in an FA Cup final you have got to be one hell of a strange football supporter if you prefer it served up as a damage limitation exercise laced with a smidgeon of hope that something drops for you somewhere somehow. One shot at goal was it we had? The remarks about the depth of our squad are a shockingly poor excuse. We had been in the PL for three years and were over that period right at the top of the spending league and yet you are prepared to excuse a complete lack of ambition on the basis we had a semi-fit winger and central defender? Really? One winger being unfit completely unhinged any wish to take the one off knock out cup final to the opposition? You cannot be serious! If you are what does that say about Pulis' squad building? I guess the mighty Wigan squad that got relegated the same season they had a right go at Man City had a much stronger squad did they? I saw your earlier post (which is so rubbish by your standards and so full of holes that I can't be bothered to reply to it ) trying to rationalise the Valencia disgrace and then your whine about being drawn into debating Pulis. You hardly ever refrain to be fair. Tongue in cheek but I cannot resist asking if Tony has blown smoke up your ass and its got in your eyes? It is the only explanation I can offer for a man holding your position in supporter circles sticking up for a complete piss take out of supporters!
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