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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 29, 2015 14:53:19 GMT
Wouldn't let either go at the moment, even in pre-season we seem to be having trouble scoring, though not prolific both will contribute 8 - 10 goals a season, Joselu hasn't done anything left. If he proves he can score before the end of the transfer window, it may be a different matter. So on your bench you'd have: Given (guaranteed to be there) Joselu (guaranteed to be there) Affelay/Arnie (guaranteed to be there) Walters Crouch Who would you give the other two spots to?
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Post by jwhpotter on Jul 29, 2015 14:55:21 GMT
Be a brave call to knock the Top 2 off our all time list. Particularly when we already shipped out #5 this summer Below are Stoke City's top Premier League scorers and the totals they have scored. Jon Walters 34 Peter Crouch 33 Ricardo Fuller 18 Charlie Adam 17 Robert Huth 13 Matthew Etherington 13 Kenwyne Jones 13 Ryan Shawcross 12 Mame Biram Diouf 11 James Beattie 10 Cameron Jerome 7 Rory Delap 6 Steven N'Zonzi 6 Mamady Sidibe 5 Abdoulaye Faye 5 Tuncay Sanli 5 Marko Arnautovic 5 Peter Odemwingie 5 Liam Lawrence 4 Danny Higginbotham 4 Glenn Whelan 4 Jermaine Pennant 4 Oussama Assaidi 4 Bojan Krkic 4 Dave Kitson 3 Dean Whitehead 3 Michael Kightly 3 Victor Moses 3 Seyi Olofinjana 2 Matthew Upson 2 Geoff Cameron 2 Stephen Ireland 2 Amdy Faye 1 Salif Diao 1 Danny Pugh 1 Marc Wilson 1 John Carew 1 Ryan Shotton 1 Michael Owen 1 Asmir Begovic 1 Erik Pieters 1 Ric still up there, what I'd give for a young in form Ricardo Fuller these days!
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Post by foxysgloves on Jul 29, 2015 14:56:49 GMT
Walters strikes me as the kind of player who is quick to throw his toys out of the pram if he's not starting. From his interviews, he feels he should be in our first XI and I don't think that he's guaranteed that this season with so much competition In that sense he is possibly not a great influence in the dressing room if he's not playing. Yeah. I wish he was more like Palacios. Stay quiet. Hide at the back of the bench. Eat your pies. Pick up your cheque. SJW - terrible professional. Clearly.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jul 29, 2015 14:57:06 GMT
Looks like we have a big squad andcould let a couple go but we thought that last season! If you had to let 3 players go in order of preference who would they be? Tough but I'd say: 1. Tex 2. Hadguard (with recall option) 3. Ireland Wouldn't be too fussed if Bards went too 1. Tex 2. Bardsley 3. Haugaard (loan)
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Post by fca47 on Jul 29, 2015 14:59:04 GMT
I expect Walters to open the season on the right, as it stands.Three would probably be Wollscheid, Wilson and Bojan, don't think he will begin the season in the team.It will be a problem keeping everyone happy this season.
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Post by jwhpotter on Jul 29, 2015 14:59:31 GMT
Looks like we have a big squad andcould let a couple go but we thought that last season! If you had to let 3 players go in order of preference who would they be? Tough but I'd say: 1. Tex 2. Hadguard (with recall option) 3. Ireland Wouldn't be too fussed if Bards went too 1. Tex 2. Bardsley 3. Haugaard (loan) Yea I meant Haugaard on loan haha
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Post by StokieNath on Jul 29, 2015 15:01:58 GMT
1. Tex 2. Bardsley 3. Haugaard (loan) Yea I meant Haugaard on loan haha Haugaard looks good enough to stand in as second keeper IMO
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Post by jezzascfc on Jul 29, 2015 15:04:16 GMT
Wouldn't let either go at the moment, even in pre-season we seem to be having trouble scoring, though not prolific both will contribute 8 - 10 goals a season, Joselu hasn't done anything left. If he proves he can score before the end of the transfer window, it may be a different matter. So on your bench you'd have: Given (guaranteed to be there) Joselu (guaranteed to be there) Affelay/Arnie (guaranteed to be there) Walters Crouch Who would you give the other two spots to? It does depends on what your first XI would be, Paul. As of now, I'd start Walters on the right. Given Cameron Wilson Sidwell Ireland Joselu Affelay That's a pretty balanced bench to cover all positions. That still leaves Bardsley, Wollscheid, Crouch, Odemwingie and the soon to be fit Bojan (who will start when in a few weeks and push another one further down to ranks, presumably Adam to the bench and Ireland out in the cold) - some very unhappy former first teamers sitting in the stands!!
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Post by cousindupree on Jul 29, 2015 15:05:10 GMT
It would be a big decision to let either of them go and as Gods has said they are 2 of our main goal threats. At the moment without replacing Crouch and Walters we would be looking at Afellay and Joselu to chip in with a similar number of goals as JW and PC. This would be another huge gamble on uncertainty and bearing in mind the other unknowns in our first XI i would be very concerned to see either of them go. As others have said Walters could be extremely tempted
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Post by jwhpotter on Jul 29, 2015 15:05:25 GMT
Yea I meant Haugaard on loan haha Haugaard looks good enough to stand in as second keeper IMO Yea I agree but surely Hughes has promised Given at least a spot on the bench?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 29, 2015 15:06:16 GMT
I expect Walters to open the season on the right, as it stands.Three would probably be Wollscheid, Wilson and Bojan, don't think he will begin the season in the team.It will be a problem keeping everyone happy this season. But Hughes has been going balls out to sign Shaqiri and Yarmolenko, it's very clear that he DOESNT WANT Walters starting on the right wing next season. I'm really surprised how many people simply say, oh we have to keep Crouch, or we must keep Walters, without stopping to put their thoughts into any context. To do so, would mean that we we will have to considerably weaken the bench to accommodate them, which would be crazy.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 29, 2015 15:09:34 GMT
So on your bench you'd have: Given (guaranteed to be there) Joselu (guaranteed to be there) Affelay/Arnie (guaranteed to be there) Walters Crouch Who would you give the other two spots to? It does depends on what your first XI would be, Paul. As of now, I'd start Walters on the right. Given Cameron Wilson Sidwell Ireland Joselu Affelay That's a pretty balanced bench to cover all positions. That still leaves Bardsley, Wollscheid, Crouch, Odemwingie and the soon to be fit Bojan (who will start when in a few weeks and push another one further down to ranks, presumably Adam to the bench and Ireland out in the cold) - some very unhappy former first teamers sitting in the stands!! So you've got Crouch gone already and as I said at the beginning - assuming that Hughes lands his much persued right winger, then that would surely leave no place for Walters either, no?
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Post by dozintheseventees on Jul 29, 2015 15:20:47 GMT
It does depends on what your first XI would be, Paul. As of now, I'd start Walters on the right. Given Cameron Wilson Sidwell Ireland Joselu Affelay That's a pretty balanced bench to cover all positions. That still leaves Bardsley, Wollscheid, Crouch, Odemwingie and the soon to be fit Bojan (who will start when in a few weeks and push another one further down to ranks, presumably Adam to the bench and Ireland out in the cold) - some very unhappy former first teamers sitting in the stands!! So you've got Crouch gone already and as I said at the beginning - assuming that Hughes lands his much persued right winger, then that would surely leave no place for Walters either, no? Perhaps a surprising bit of support here for you Paul on this subject. I don't need to tell you what I think about Walters but there is a reality check to be taken here. As one of his staunchest supporters, I TOO feel he still has plenty to offer which is why (presumably) West Brom would want him. However, it's becoming more and more obvious (even to me ) that something has to give here. I think the decision here will actually come down to Jon himself, since he still has 12 months to run. If he feels that he's likely to get far fewer games or even struggle to make the bench (which MIGHT happen) and he is offered a decent 2/3 year contract at West Brom then I think he'd be mad to turn it down. He would, of course, leave me in floods of tears.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Jul 29, 2015 15:22:13 GMT
Crouch has come out several times and stated the football and training is much more enjoyable under Hughes and he has a contract extension. On what planet would he go to the Capped One?
Jon on the other hand, if a 3 year deal is offered may well see it as his last pay packet if the rumours are true that SCFC are not offering that long? Assuming he wants to hear a guy in a tracksuit on the sideline screaming Goooooarrrrn Jon?
Neither should go as this is turning in to a transitional year re players
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Post by cheadlestokie on Jul 29, 2015 15:25:13 GMT
it would be a very risky decision to let either go.
We do not yet now if the new boys are capable of replacing their goals and their work ethic.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 15:25:40 GMT
I expect Walters to open the season on the right, as it stands.Three would probably be Wollscheid, Wilson and Bojan, don't think he will begin the season in the team.It will be a problem keeping everyone happy this season. But Hughes has been going balls out to sign Shaqiri and Yarmolenko, it's very clear that he DOESNT WANT Walters starting on the right wing next season. I'm really surprised how many people simply say, oh we have to keep Crouch, or we must keep Walters, without stopping to put their thoughts into any context. To do so, would mean that we we will have to considerably weaken the bench to accommodate them, which would be crazy. i think a lot on here would happily keep all our old players for romantic reasons Paul and forget we also only have 25 places we can fill!!!! as you say, a lot of knee jerking by people without much thought going into the logistics and practicalities of the situation!
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Post by jezzascfc on Jul 29, 2015 15:27:40 GMT
It does depends on what your first XI would be, Paul. As of now, I'd start Walters on the right. Given Cameron Wilson Sidwell Ireland Joselu Affelay That's a pretty balanced bench to cover all positions. That still leaves Bardsley, Wollscheid, Crouch, Odemwingie and the soon to be fit Bojan (who will start when in a few weeks and push another one further down to ranks, presumably Adam to the bench and Ireland out in the cold) - some very unhappy former first teamers sitting in the stands!! So you've got Crouch gone already and as I said at the beginning - assuming that Hughes lands his much persued right winger, then that would surely leave no place for Walters either, no? Crouch not gone, but third choice front man, as he surely must be for Hughes now as Diouf and Joselu are his buys - would Crouch be happy with that? I see Walters as worthy of at least a bench spot given his versatility, but he would surely step down from the first team if a big money right winger is signed before the window closes. For all we know, he may do so anyway, if Afellay and Arnie are the chosen wing men (although both seem to prefer the left side).
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Post by Claus_SCFC on Jul 29, 2015 15:28:32 GMT
If we get our marquee right winger in, I have a feeling Odemwingie isn't gonna make the 25 man squad.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 29, 2015 15:31:04 GMT
So you've got Crouch gone already and as I said at the beginning - assuming that Hughes lands his much persued right winger, then that would surely leave no place for Walters either, no? Crouch not gone, but third choice front man, as he surely must be for Hughes now as Diouf and Joselu are his buys - would Crouch be happy with that? I see Walters as worthy of at least a bench spot given his versatility, but he would surely step down from the first team if a big money right winger is signed before the window closes. For all we know, he may do so anyway, if Afellay and Arnie are the chosen wing men (although both seem to prefer the left side). Crouch gone from the bench. Who would you lose from your bench that you've listed to accommodate Walters and you obviously can't say Ireland because he's gone for Adam?
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 29, 2015 15:33:53 GMT
So you've got Crouch gone already and as I said at the beginning - assuming that Hughes lands his much persued right winger, then that would surely leave no place for Walters either, no? Crouch not gone, but third choice front man, as he surely must be for Hughes now as Diouf and Joselu are his buys - would Crouch be happy with that? I see Walters as worthy of at least a bench spot given his versatility, but he would surely step down from the first team if a big money right winger is signed before the window closes. For all we know, he may do so anyway, if Afellay and Arnie are the chosen wing men (although both seem to prefer the left side). 0-1 at home to Liverpool with 15 minutes to go. It's time to go plan B. I think he'll turn to Crouch rather than Joselu. Is it possible that Joselu has been brought in for a slightly different type of formation we might see at some stage, in certain games?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 29, 2015 15:38:42 GMT
Crouch not gone, but third choice front man, as he surely must be for Hughes now as Diouf and Joselu are his buys - would Crouch be happy with that? I see Walters as worthy of at least a bench spot given his versatility, but he would surely step down from the first team if a big money right winger is signed before the window closes. For all we know, he may do so anyway, if Afellay and Arnie are the chosen wing men (although both seem to prefer the left side). 0-1 at home to Liverpool with 15 minutes to go. It's time to go plan B. I think he'll turn to Crouch rather than Joselu. Is it possible that Joselu has been brought in for a slightly different type of formation we might see at some stage, in certain games? So you think he'll have Joselu AND Crouch on the bench then Sheikhy? Assuming Hughes gets his new right winger and Bojan is back, who do you think the other five players on the bench will be?
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Post by jezzascfc on Jul 29, 2015 15:43:04 GMT
Crouch not gone, but third choice front man, as he surely must be for Hughes now as Diouf and Joselu are his buys - would Crouch be happy with that? I see Walters as worthy of at least a bench spot given his versatility, but he would surely step down from the first team if a big money right winger is signed before the window closes. For all we know, he may do so anyway, if Afellay and Arnie are the chosen wing men (although both seem to prefer the left side). Crouch gone from the bench. Who would you lose from your bench that you've listed to accommodate Walters and you obviously can't say Ireland because he's gone for Adam? Damn, a toughie! Afellay? Joselu? The issue is we have 22/23 senior pros, with only 18 able to be named each week. Even with the inevitable injuries/suspensions and some rotation, that only gets us so far. Those who sit out the first few games may be contacting their agents come the last week in August! Otherwise, at least a couple could be loaned out to the Championship to keep match fit, to be recalled if needed.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 15:46:09 GMT
I think Crouch would go to the Championship before he played for Pulis again. Personally, I would drive Walters to The Hawthornes right now.In that case you're an idiot. Nah I'm not actually, more than entitled to my opinion thank you very much. My opinion is that he has been a useful signing and those uses will not be as effective from this season onwards. The fact somebody is willing to pay money for him at his age means yes, I would snap there hands off for it - instead of signing him on another contract and paying him wages when I think is more than likely he will eventually not be used as much as he has been. Also, presuming we sign a right winger, I would rather have Peter Odemwingie in the squad as cover across the frontline than Walters. He is quicker, a better finisher, a more classier footballer and I think he works very hard, an attribute I believe is overplayed with Walters. Also, I prefer singing Odemwingie's song than the rather drab one we sing to Jon, maybe that's just me being silly though. Somebody needs to to go and I would like it to be Walters and as previously mentioned the financial aspect of any possible transfer considering these circumstances is the reason I chose those words, not because I am an idiot.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 29, 2015 15:49:27 GMT
Crouch gone from the bench. Who would you lose from your bench that you've listed to accommodate Walters and you obviously can't say Ireland because he's gone for Adam? Damn, a toughie! Afellay? Joselu? The issue is we have 22/23 senior pros, with only 18 able to be named each week. Even with the inevitable injuries/suspensions and some rotation, that only gets us so far. Those who sit out the first few games may be contacting their agents come the last week in August! Otherwise, at least a couple could be loaned out to the Championship to keep match fit, to be recalled if needed. This is the thing isn't it - there's no way that Hughes is going to sign Affelay and Joselu and then not even include them in the match day squad at all just to accommodate Jon Walters. As I said right at the start, regardless of what you think Walters and Crouch can bring to the table, if you look at the situation with just a modicum of pragmatism, then it's very hard to see them making the bench - save for a horrendous run of injuries elsewhere in the squad.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 29, 2015 15:50:58 GMT
We've got 3 front line strikers for 1 striking position. All 3 will be expecting to start. Something has to give. I think Bayern's logic is perfectly sound ... Assuming that Diouf is going to start and we'll have a 'proper' right winger here by the time the transfer window closes, then you can't then have Joselu, Walters, Crouch, Odemwingie AND Affelay/Arnie on the bench - it would only leave just one other outfield substitute place available, which would be crazy. At least one (and almost certainly two) of them are going to be regularly missing from the match day squad. No matter how much you rate the individual player(s)/think that they've still got something to offer, there's a practical issue here that can't be ignored. If we sign this elusive right winger then one have them has to go surely? As you say it's going to be hard to keep them all happy. And that comment above was said when we had already signed Joselu and still needed 2 more wingers.....so far it seems MH agrees on that. Does he think he can buy them and keep everyone happy? Or is he going to sell one of them, probably Walters? We shall see! But this scenario was always pretty much going to be the case!
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Post by jezzascfc on Jul 29, 2015 15:58:30 GMT
Damn, a toughie! Afellay? Joselu? The issue is we have 22/23 senior pros, with only 18 able to be named each week. Even with the inevitable injuries/suspensions and some rotation, that only gets us so far. Those who sit out the first few games may be contacting their agents come the last week in August! Otherwise, at least a couple could be loaned out to the Championship to keep match fit, to be recalled if needed. This is the thing isn't it - there's no way that Hughes is going to sign Affelay and Joselu and then not even include them in the match day squad at all just to accommodate Jon Walters. As I said right at the start, regardless of what you think Walters and Crouch can bring to the table, if you look at the situation with just a modicum of pragmatism, then it's very hard to see them making the bench - save for a horrendous run of injuries elsewhere in the squad. But the alternative, of offloading both Crouch and Walters at the same time, somehow feels too big a risk - as said above, you are hoping Joselu and Afellay, and AN Other right winger, would fill the gap in goals/assists, and in showing the right attitude and commitment to the cause that both of these stalwarts do right now.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jul 29, 2015 15:59:41 GMT
0-1 at home to Liverpool with 15 minutes to go. It's time to go plan B. I think he'll turn to Crouch rather than Joselu. Is it possible that Joselu has been brought in for a slightly different type of formation we might see at some stage, in certain games? So you think he'll have Joselu AND Crouch on the bench then Sheikhy? Assuming Hughes gets his new right winger and Bojan is back, who do you think the other five players on the bench will be? There are loads of either/or's Paul and Crouch or Joselu is one of them, presumably he'll do it on his merits. I realise that Sidwell wasn't a bells or whistles new signing but he came in as a top pro and one who Hughes had a previous relationship with and he missed out on a fair few match day squads last year. I think he will be more ruthless with his signings than you might expect. The advantage Walters gives a manager by being on the bench is his flexibility which in turn spells danger for Odemwingie. My guess is that if we receive a bid of any value for Walters he'll be off but if he stays he will feature in the matchday squad more often than not.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 29, 2015 16:08:13 GMT
This is the thing isn't it - there's no way that Hughes is going to sign Affelay and Joselu and then not even include them in the match day squad at all just to accommodate Jon Walters. As I said right at the start, regardless of what you think Walters and Crouch can bring to the table, if you look at the situation with just a modicum of pragmatism, then it's very hard to see them making the bench - save for a horrendous run of injuries elsewhere in the squad. But the alternative, of offloading both Crouch and Walters at the same time, somehow feels too big a risk - as said above, you are hoping Joselu and Afellay, and AN Other right winger, would fill the gap in goals/assists, and in showing the right attitude and commitment to the cause that both of these stalwarts do right now. I'm not hoping anything Jez. It's just that there are only so many spaces on the bench and if the manager brings in new players like Joselu/Affelay/a new right winger, then other players like Walters and Crouch will (obviously) have to make way - it's the simplest of mathematics. It's the manager who has made the call on the risk factor of it all and the newbies abilities to create/score goals, simply by signing them.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jul 29, 2015 16:12:41 GMT
So you think he'll have Joselu AND Crouch on the bench then Sheikhy? Assuming Hughes gets his new right winger and Bojan is back, who do you think the other five players on the bench will be? There are loads of either/or's Paul and Crouch or Joselu is one of them, presumably he'll do it on his merits. I realise that Sidwell wasn't a bells or whistles new signing but he came in as a top pro and one who Hughes had a previous relationship with and he missed out on a fair few match day squads last year. I think he will be more ruthless with his signings than you might expect. The advantage Walters gives a manager by being on the bench is his flexibility which in turn spells danger for Odemwingie. My guess is that if we receive a bid of any value for Walters he'll be off but if he stays he will feature in the matchday squad more often than not. That's a fair comment mate but you would think questions will start to get asked if the likes of Ireland, Joselu and Affelay start regularly missing out on the match day squad, in order to accommodate players that were signed by the previous manager. Imagine a situation where Bardsley, Sidwell, Ireland, Joselu and Affelay aren't making the bench but Wilson, Cameron, Adam, Crouch and Walters, are.
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Post by numpty40 on Jul 29, 2015 16:16:07 GMT
For some reason I seem to think Hughes is going to try and find a formation whereby both Diouf and Joselu start and Diouf on the right but not wide right. Johnson is a very attacking right back and I can see Diouf, Bojan and Joselu being quite fluid as our top three. Not sure how Hughes is going to do it but I don't think SJW will be starting as many games as he'd want this next season.
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