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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 21:35:58 GMT
I thought if the match had actually meant something - and admitting having done well in spells as England did -
Italy always had another gear
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Post by Sergeant Muttley on Mar 31, 2015 21:37:38 GMT
England squad now not flying back until tomorrow because the plane has technical problems according to ITV News just.Big scramble for a hotel tonight then?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2015 21:39:45 GMT
I thought if the match had actually meant something - and admitting having done well in spells as England did - Italy always had another gear I don't think its about another gear. They don't carry passengers. England always get things wrong. There are always one or two players in key positions who don't warrant selection. In a big game with Italy we will lose 1-0 or 2-1 every time because they will always have a plan to expose our weaknesses. We have never gone into a big game with a coherent plan. We never give thought to how we are going to win a game, rather we will often think about negating the opposition, and when you go down that road it can soon descend into the kind of delirious fear and paranoia that leads you to think that playing Phil Jones in the Allesandro Pirlo role is a good idea.
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Post by geoff321 on Mar 31, 2015 21:45:37 GMT
We had one of the great Italian club managers in charge of England for around four years and he had the highest win rate of all England managers. When we failed at the World Cup the media and many fans turned on him.
Capello went into games with a coherent plan and he chose the best players available, but in the end they were not good enough, guess who got blamed though?
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Post by prem4stoke on Mar 31, 2015 21:45:56 GMT
Why would you want to put Butland in goal tonight when he has basically played 3 PL games for Stoke? Hodgson has him in the squad because of injuries but it gives Butland valuable experience to be there with the full England squad. What would fans say if he had been selected and had a bad game and conceded poor goals? Should we wrap him in cotton wool forever? The manager obviously rates the lad. What better time to give him some playing time, maybe just 45 minutes, in an experimental friendly? The U21s had a game against Germany yesterday. If Roy didn't think he was ready for the full team he should've allowed him to play and develop with them. He'd get more from that than from sitting on the bench and watching the seniors. If we're going in this direction maybe we should play him more often then maybe he would play for England? Surely us of all should not be judging him playing for England he doesn't even play for us really does he.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Mar 31, 2015 21:53:03 GMT
Hart Bertrand Cahill Shawcross Clyne Townsend Carrick (or Henderson depending on opposition) Barkley Sterling Rooney Kane Subs:Henderson Butland Delph Jagielka Jones Walcott Not impressed with: Smalling Mason ? (too soon) Rather have two more regular PL center midfielders than Smalling and Mason in the team. I thought Clyne was a big loser on the night mate. Thought his replacement made a much better stick of things.
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Post by stokemanusa on Mar 31, 2015 22:03:03 GMT
Hart Bertrand Cahill Shawcross Clyne Townsend Carrick (or Henderson depending on opposition) Barkley Sterling Rooney Kane Subs:Henderson Butland Delph Jagielka Jones Walcott Not impressed with: Smalling Mason ? (too soon) Rather have two more regular PL center midfielders than Smalling and Mason in the team. I thought Clyne was a big loser on the night mate. Thought his replacement made a much better stick of things. I thought he was off it too, but I still think he's a better defender than Walker. Although Walkers distribution is better. If you could only mold the two. Clyne just edges it for me.
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Post by Birchesheadpotter on Mar 31, 2015 22:03:08 GMT
The manager obviously rates the lad. What better time to give him some playing time, maybe just 45 minutes, in an experimental friendly? The U21s had a game against Germany yesterday. If Roy didn't think he was ready for the full team he should've allowed him to play and develop with them. He'd get more from that than from sitting on the bench and watching the seniors. Bang on the money. Kane should have been playing with the U21's for me aswell; we're too keen to fast track players to the top, and more often than not it ends up being more damaging to the lads than anything else.
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Post by fca47 on Mar 31, 2015 22:38:28 GMT
These set of fullbacks must be the worst lot, we have ever had . Loan of doggy door the lot of them.
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Post by ukcstokie on Mar 31, 2015 23:54:35 GMT
Why are so many going for Townsend out wide. Good goal tonight but he's struggling in the Spurs side isn't he?
He's a one trick pony like Assaidi. Cut in and shoot. Once defences cotton onto that he's largely neutralised. The Italians hadn't done their homework.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 6:13:30 GMT
After that 2nd half performance, Phil Jones just has to play. He was the fulcrum at the back and all of our pacey attacks were started from the Jones/Carrick axis.
They were so in tune....almost like Renee and Renato.
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Post by 99problems on Apr 1, 2015 6:49:33 GMT
These set of fullbacks must be the worst lot, we have ever had . Loan of doggy door the lot of them. Loan of doggy door?
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Post by jarvinski on Apr 1, 2015 9:05:25 GMT
Who sorted out the national anthems, couldn't hear a fucking thing.....and our irish trio dont know the words to theirs
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 1, 2015 9:12:22 GMT
I was quite impressed with us in the last 30 minutes - but the first half....... What pisses me off is that everyone at the start of this thread knew, as soon as the starting eleven was announced, that the midfield diamond would not work with those players in it, and that the back four would be dodgy. And we were proved right - so how come Woy is paid £millions and doesn't know what is blindingly obvious to every Stokie apart from geoff321?
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Post by tqstokie on Apr 1, 2015 9:34:43 GMT
I'm rapidly giving up on "the right way to play". All this sideways and backwards at a slow pace is so mind numbingly boring. Clyne played more back passes than forward, everytime he got it he turned back. You sometimes have to try the 50-50 ball or you don't stand a chance of breaking defences like Italy. The performance did improve second half but we need a higher tempo and forward positive thinking. Barkley played well but was caught in possession several times in his own half. You can't do that with teams like Italy. Italy seemed to be playing well within themselves and moved the ball quicker and with more intent. In the end for our second half efforts we deserved the draw.
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Post by Northy on Apr 1, 2015 9:47:55 GMT
The two major problems are 1. Roy Hodgson 2. The back four Lest we forget, this is the man who played Gerrard as a screening midfielder, in a midfield 2, in the world cup, with Phil Jagielka and Glenda Johnson in the same back four. This is the man who just said that in games against better teams like Italy, we may play Phil Jones in midfield. If Woy is in charge for the Euro's it will be the same old story. We not only need to more English players in the prem - we also need more and better coaches with tactical awareness. It is pathetic that we have a manager who is probably the highest paid international manager who does not know what a midfielder is. If Smalling hadn't been injured we would have seen Phil Jones orchestrating our play for the whole game, don't doubt that for a second. Hart Clyne Shawcross Cahill Baines Carrick Henderson Delph Sterling Wellbeck/Townsend Rooney or Kane For me Barkley has a lot to learn before he plays at this level. I'd use him as a sub. Ox-Chambo would be a threat to Sterling as well as I think Sterling is still very naïve. We are not blessed with midfielders, until Ward-Prowse gets more games under his belt Carrick has to play. He should stick to one fucking system and play people in their normal position. Time and again we see those teams that keep it simple doing well in international football. Agree with you about Barkley, I watched him closely when he came on, constantly ball watching, not watching the runners going behind him, gives the ball away then didn't track back, good running with the ball then ........ not a lot he hasn't been a regular with Everton lately has he?
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Post by lordb on Apr 1, 2015 12:09:11 GMT
I thought if the match had actually meant something - and admitting having done well in spells as England did - Italy always had another gear & yet it was England who had that other gear ,last 20 minutes we dominated & Italy had no response (no other gear on show then). Doesn't mean we should ignore the 1st half by any means. I think sometimes - & by sometimes I mean nearly always - English football supporters/media (& within the game) - attribute levels of talent/know how to foreign sides that often simply arn't there. in my view England are no worse/better than Italy & haven't been for a long time. England lose big games in tournements sometimes because we are playing better sides(e.g. Germany in 2010) but often becasue we expect to lose.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2015 12:20:50 GMT
We would have won that game last night if Woy had started a side with balance.
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Post by StokieAsh13 on Apr 1, 2015 12:27:26 GMT
We would have won that game last night if Woy had started a side with balance. Absolutely, starting your best player out of position to accommodate someone else isn't too clever either.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2015 12:30:53 GMT
We would have won that game last night if Woy had started a side with balance. Absolutely, starting your best player out of position to accommodate someone else isn't too clever either. It was a massive part of the problem. Rooney and Kane looked pretty good together with Barkley and Carrick supplying them from midfield (as you'd expect). Kane and Walcott with no service looked dreadful as you'd expect.
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 1, 2015 12:54:58 GMT
Considering we are being managed by a bumbling idiot/dinosaur, have useless defenders, were set up wrong in the first half, played our best player out of position, I'm trying to figure out how we got away with a 1-1 draw.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 12:56:35 GMT
Considering we are being managed by a bumbling idiot/dinosaur, have useless defenders, were set up wrong in the first half, played our best player out of position, I'm trying to figure out how we got away with a 1-1 draw. Antonio Conte messed up the Italian side. His subs were dreadful. Took the initiative away from the home side.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 1, 2015 12:57:00 GMT
We should have been 3-0 down at half time!
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Post by geoff321 on Apr 1, 2015 12:58:39 GMT
Bet you were furious with him onlooker.
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 1, 2015 13:03:50 GMT
We moan about England but two World Cups running Italy haven't got out of the group. For a nogger nation with their history and stature that's a blow. Mind you they reached the Euro final.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2015 13:04:14 GMT
Bet you were furious with him onlooker. I love Pasta Geoff.
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Post by jarvinski on Apr 1, 2015 14:29:34 GMT
Ryan!...get yourself off to wales, because if you can't get a place in that shite defence, you'll never play international football
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Post by britsabroad on Apr 1, 2015 16:00:23 GMT
Considering we are being managed by a bumbling idiot/dinosaur, have useless defenders, were set up wrong in the first half, played our best player out of position, I'm trying to figure out how we got away with a 1-1 draw. Because that was the worst Italian 11 theyve put out in years.
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Post by JoeinOz on Apr 2, 2015 3:04:11 GMT
Considering we are being managed by a bumbling idiot/dinosaur, have useless defenders, were set up wrong in the first half, played our best player out of position, I'm trying to figure out how we got away with a 1-1 draw. Because that was the worst Italian 11 theyve put out in years. 2004 was worse than this one.
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Post by britsabroad on Apr 2, 2015 4:19:48 GMT
Because that was the worst Italian 11 theyve put out in years. 2004 was worse than this one. Ummmmm.... Buffon Panucci Nesta Cannavaro Zambrotta Gattuso Zanetti Pirlo Del Piero Vieri Totti On what planet is that worse than what they rolled out two days ago????
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