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Post by ukcstokie on May 2, 2015 20:48:52 GMT
If Root and Balance go will this match get beyond day 3?
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Post by partickpotter on May 2, 2015 20:48:54 GMT
Our three senior batsmen to boot. For a grand combined total of ... 13 runs! Probably the main reason our batting has been awful for so long. In fairness, overall the test batting been quite good - with the exception of the last trip down under. But that's been thanks to the new boys. Time and again the old guard have failed to deliver big enough and often enough.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 2, 2015 21:02:42 GMT
Probably the main reason our batting has been awful for so long. In fairness, overall the test batting been quite good - with the exception of the last trip down under. But that's been thanks to the new boys. Time and again the old guard have failed to deliver big enough and often enough. We have 3 groups of batsmen: - the old guard (Cook, Trott, Bell) who have been struggling and may need to be replaced. - the new top batsmen (Balance and Root) who look like the real deal. They should be our world class batsmen for our next 10-15 years. - the all rounders (Moeen, Buttler, Stokes) who as yet have been very hit and miss. We need to find an opener quick and get them bedded in against the Kiwis. Lyth? Moeen would be a long shot.
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Post by partickpotter on May 2, 2015 21:12:37 GMT
In fairness, overall the test batting been quite good - with the exception of the last trip down under. But that's been thanks to the new boys. Time and again the old guard have failed to deliver big enough and often enough. We have 3 groups of batsmen: - the old guard (Cook, Trott, Bell) who have been struggling and may need to be replaced. - the new top batsmen (Balance and Root) who look like the real deal. They should be our world class batsmen for our next 10-15 years. - the all rounders (Moeen, Buttler, Stokes) who as yet have been very hit and miss. We need to find an opener quick and get them bedded in against the Kiwis. Lyth? Moeen would be a long shot. Well - we're into the all rounders now! Joe's been uprooted!
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 2, 2015 21:26:31 GMT
Real, real trouble.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 2, 2015 21:27:02 GMT
We have 3 groups of batsmen: - the old guard (Cook, Trott, Bell) who have been struggling and may need to be replaced. - the new top batsmen (Balance and Root) who look like the real deal. They should be our world class batsmen for our next 10-15 years. - the all rounders (Moeen, Buttler, Stokes) who as yet have been very hit and miss. We need to find an opener quick and get them bedded in against the Kiwis. Lyth? Moeen would be a long shot. Well - we're into the all rounders now! Joe's been uprooted! Moeen gone. What's that 18 wickets during the day so far? What a day. 15 wickets left in the match. It will be a shame not to enjoy test cricket on Bank holiday.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 21:30:40 GMT
Our three senior batsmen to boot. For a grand combined total of ... 13 runs! Probably the main reason our batting has been awful for so long. I'm not sure you can say that , today has been a strange and not a typical days Test Cricket .
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 21:33:08 GMT
In fairness, overall the test batting been quite good - with the exception of the last trip down under. But that's been thanks to the new boys. Time and again the old guard have failed to deliver big enough and often enough. We have 3 groups of batsmen: - the old guard (Cook, Trott, Bell) who have been struggling and may need to be replaced. - the new top batsmen (Balance and Root) who look like the real deal. They should be our world class batsmen for our next 10-15 years. - the all rounders (Moeen, Buttler, Stokes) who as yet have been very hit and miss. We need to find an opener quick and get them bedded in against the Kiwis. Lyth? Moeen would be a long shot. Where is the evidence that Cook should be replaced ? A century and five fifties in his last ten innings is hardly that ?
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 2, 2015 21:33:24 GMT
Well, at the end of all that England are effectively 107-5 with only 3 recognised batsmen either at the crease or in the shed. If we can put on around 150-200 more it should be more than enough, massive if however.
Credit to the Widies, bowled superbly in that final session.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 21:37:25 GMT
Well, at the end of all that England are effectively 107-5 with only 3 recognised batsmen either at the crease or in the shed. If we can put on around 150-200 more it should be more than enough, massive if however. Credit to the Widies, bowled superbly in that final session. Agreed they have bowled well .
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Post by ukcstokie on May 2, 2015 21:39:57 GMT
Probably the main reason our batting has been awful for so long. I'm not sure you can say that , today has been a strange and not a typical days Test Cricket . We've been too fragile haven't we? Or am I letting the last few months cloud my judgement. There have been too many senior batsmen not delivering though.
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Post by ukcstokie on May 2, 2015 21:43:06 GMT
We have 3 groups of batsmen: - the old guard (Cook, Trott, Bell) who have been struggling and may need to be replaced. - the new top batsmen (Balance and Root) who look like the real deal. They should be our world class batsmen for our next 10-15 years. - the all rounders (Moeen, Buttler, Stokes) who as yet have been very hit and miss. We need to find an opener quick and get them bedded in against the Kiwis. Lyth? Moeen would be a long shot. Where is the evidence that Cook should be replaced ? A century and five fifties in his last ten innings is hardly that ? That's why I said may mate. Trott looks as though he'll go for a while. Bell really needs some sustained form. I hope Cook has turned the corner, but there's some serious tests coming up. New Zealand will be tougher than WI. Aussie tougher than NZ. SA will be the toughest of the lot. He's not sorted yet - but let's bloody hope he is.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 2, 2015 21:43:52 GMT
Sam Robson has hit 178 for Middlesex against Durham, timely reminder of his possible talent on the test stage.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 21:51:13 GMT
I'm not sure you can say that , today has been a strange and not a typical days Test Cricket . We've been too fragile haven't we? Or am I letting the last few months cloud my judgement. There have been too many senior batsmen not delivering though. I would say that people have been confusing poor performances in limited overs cricket with Test matches , as Partick said earlier ,the last series in Australia apart , the batting hasn't been that bad , room for improvement at the top of the order I agree , a new opener is obviously a priority .....improvement from Cook has been demanded , and that I think is what you have got , this evening he got a good delivery which there was no shame in getting out to , he appears to be someway towards regaining his best form ...to suggest he may need replacing is wide of the mark for me .Bell has been out of sorts for the last two tests , but that was a superb hundred at Antigua two games ago .
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 22:03:39 GMT
Pathetic spin bowling on a spinning wicket is what has cost us, we should have been looking at a lead of 100 before we batted again. Ali and Root bowled like club cricketers, Moores and Cook have either completely mis read the pitch or have just made the wrong decision by not playing Rashid instead of Jordan
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2015 22:48:18 GMT
Pathetic spin bowling on a spinning wicket is what has cost us, we should have been looking at a lead of 100 before we batted again. Ali and Root bowled like club cricketers, Moores and Cook have either completely mis read the pitch or have just made the wrong decision by not playing Rashid instead of Jordan Well looking at the pitch before the toss.....it's obviously as tailor made for a leg spinner as you are going to get , it's hard , dry and dusty , if you have got a leg spinner in your party , if you are not going to play him on this type of pitch when are you going to play him ? They seem to have a lack of confidence in the lads bowling Obviously he would concede a few runs .....England are paranoid about having boundaries scored while attempting to get wickets , this is half the problem with Stephen Finn and his place in the side over the last few years .....they know he is a wicket taker , but they don't like his wicket to run ratio .
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Post by sydneypotter on May 3, 2015 0:44:01 GMT
Surely Trott has played his last innings for England. It's a shame and a great pity that he hasn't been able to recreate his better form of past years. Not withstanding his health issues, this is a case of a fine number 3 being asked to play as an opener. It hasn't worked on the occasion. He simply is unable to play the quicks any more. He must make the following batsmen nervous just watching him dance around the crease. Don't England have an opener in the wings - besides Root?
Have to agree that the wicket looked to be a ready made spinners strip. There's an enormous difference between using a part time bowler and a proven spinner ready to go. Unfortunately for England this was shown to be the case with unfortunate consequences. Swann is still being sorely missed.
It's going to be fascinating to watch what your selectors do before the Kiwi's arrive. Even more, it's going to be fascinating to watch if the Black Caps can make the transition from one dayers to Test match cricket. Lots to look forward to before the Ashes gets under way, including the Aussies having a go at the Windies for a quickie series.
I still think you need to address the coaching approach, but as said previously that is something for the 'Board' to decide and not for the likes of me Henry Higgins.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 1:15:32 GMT
Surely Trott has played his last innings for England. It's a shame and a great pity that he hasn't been able to recreate his better form of past years. Not withstanding his health issues, this is a case of a fine number 3 being asked to play as an opener. It hasn't worked on the occasion. He simply is unable to play the quicks any more. He must make the following batsmen nervous just watching him dance around the crease. Don't England have an opener in the wings - besides Root? Have to agree that the wicket looked to be a ready made spinners strip. There's an enormous difference between using a part time bowler and a proven spinner ready to go. Unfortunately for England this was shown to be the case with unfortunate consequences. Swann is still being sorely missed. It's going to be fascinating to watch what your selectors do before the Kiwi's arrive. Even more, it's going to be fascinating to watch if the Black Caps can make the transition from one dayers to Test match cricket. Lots to look forward to before the Ashes gets under way, including the Aussies having a go at the Windies for a quickie series. I still think you need to address the coaching approach, but as said previously that is something for the 'Board' to decide and not for the likes of me Henry Higgins. Swann will continue to be missed ....you just don't replace bowlers of his calibre overnight ....as Australia have struggled to replace Warne ( as if you could ) and to a lesser extent McGill , who I thought to be top class .....playing part timers is just not the answer ....all due respect and credit to Moeen for his efforts last season ...he did well against India , he performed beyond expectations .....but we need to find a top class spinner to relieve the pressure that has now been put onto Anderson and Broad ...they are definitely shouldering the work that would have been Swann's ....there is an answer to the problem ...Monty Pannessar ....a proven Test match spinner with the record to boot ...but they seem reluctant to select him for a variety of reasons ....short sighted , because he is quality ...!
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2015 1:31:17 GMT
Surely Trott has played his last innings for England. It's a shame and a great pity that he hasn't been able to recreate his better form of past years. Not withstanding his health issues, this is a case of a fine number 3 being asked to play as an opener. It hasn't worked on the occasion. He simply is unable to play the quicks any more. He must make the following batsmen nervous just watching him dance around the crease. Don't England have an opener in the wings - besides Root? Have to agree that the wicket looked to be a ready made spinners strip. There's an enormous difference between using a part time bowler and a proven spinner ready to go. Unfortunately for England this was shown to be the case with unfortunate consequences. Swann is still being sorely missed. It's going to be fascinating to watch what your selectors do before the Kiwi's arrive. Even more, it's going to be fascinating to watch if the Black Caps can make the transition from one dayers to Test match cricket. Lots to look forward to before the Ashes gets under way, including the Aussies having a go at the Windies for a quickie series. I still think you need to address the coaching approach, but as said previously that is something for the 'Board' to decide and not for the likes of me Henry Higgins. I have to say Sid that I'm a little disappointed to read the comments from Steve Smith regarding England not coming close to Australia in the coming series ...a little arrogant I would say , but typical Australian to boot , he may be better advised to see how the land lies before spouting off in public before a ball is bowled ....what is it with you lot and predictions ?
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Post by sydneypotter on May 3, 2015 2:09:39 GMT
Have to agree. I would have thought that Steve Smith might have brought a modicum of verbal control along with his new found elevated status. He doesn't have a history of shooting off his mouth and I would hope that this is the last we hear from him in that regard.
As for predictions - someone had to take McGrath's place as the team tea leaf reader, That is a fairly recent tradition and one that I also had hoped would be phased out - alas not to be. The recent Australian summer has bolstered Smith's confidence, some would say to have over inflated his ego. He's a solid Western Suburbs chap and as such is equipped with speedy retorts to go with even quicker cricketing brains. (Messrs Clark, Warner and Smith are products from the same talent conveyer belt) Arrogance is seen here to be over emphasised by the English when referring to Australian players and more a statement of intent by Australian players going into a series of importance. Not so much a case of being arrogant but a show of confidence - sometimes to the team's detriment in the English press and perhaps in the eyes of some cricketing academics when the plan doesn't quite come off.
English conditions, as always, will play a role the outcome of the Ashes. Fortunately this time around it looks like we will have a complete fast bowling battery. If Trott is chosen to open then I fear it will be a tad one sided. (not wanting to appear arrogant Bish - more an opinion) If Bell doesn't get his act in order then the middle order will fall quickly. If there isn't a Swann replacement (agree with the Monty position) then there will be an enormous hole is the team (also agree - who could ever replace Warne) If Root takes his place as a future leader and successfully takes up the responsibility as a primary runs collector then the tide could begin to turn. The same comment applies to Cooke as the current leader.
Not so much a prediction more an opinion from a distance.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 3, 2015 2:45:44 GMT
Surely Trott has played his last innings for England. It's a shame and a great pity that he hasn't been able to recreate his better form of past years. Not withstanding his health issues, this is a case of a fine number 3 being asked to play as an opener. It hasn't worked on the occasion. He simply is unable to play the quicks any more. He must make the following batsmen nervous just watching him dance around the crease. Don't England have an opener in the wings - besides Root? Have to agree that the wicket looked to be a ready made spinners strip. There's an enormous difference between using a part time bowler and a proven spinner ready to go. Unfortunately for England this was shown to be the case with unfortunate consequences. Swann is still being sorely missed. It's going to be fascinating to watch what your selectors do before the Kiwi's arrive. Even more, it's going to be fascinating to watch if the Black Caps can make the transition from one dayers to Test match cricket. Lots to look forward to before the Ashes gets under way, including the Aussies having a go at the Windies for a quickie series. I still think you need to address the coaching approach, but as said previously that is something for the 'Board' to decide and not for the likes of me Henry Higgins. Adam Lyth, top scored in the County Championship last season, scored 1500 runs at 68. Seems he's sprayed himself with a healthy does of Moores repellent though, they seem hesitant to pick him.
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Post by partickpotter on May 3, 2015 5:48:58 GMT
Surely Trott has played his last innings for England. It's a shame and a great pity that he hasn't been able to recreate his better form of past years. Not withstanding his health issues, this is a case of a fine number 3 being asked to play as an opener. It hasn't worked on the occasion. He simply is unable to play the quicks any more. He must make the following batsmen nervous just watching him dance around the crease. Don't England have an opener in the wings - besides Root? Have to agree that the wicket looked to be a ready made spinners strip. There's an enormous difference between using a part time bowler and a proven spinner ready to go. Unfortunately for England this was shown to be the case with unfortunate consequences. Swann is still being sorely missed. It's going to be fascinating to watch what your selectors do before the Kiwi's arrive. Even more, it's going to be fascinating to watch if the Black Caps can make the transition from one dayers to Test match cricket. Lots to look forward to before the Ashes gets under way, including the Aussies having a go at the Windies for a quickie series. I still think you need to address the coaching approach, but as said previously that is something for the 'Board' to decide and not for the likes of me Henry Higgins. Adam Lyth, top scored in the County Championship last season, scored 1500 runs at 68. Seems he's sprayed himself with a healthy does of Moores repellent though, they seem hesitant to pick him. Oh yes - the Moores factor. Seems we will have to endure a harrowing Ashes series before we decide he ain't up to the job. The Trott selection fiasco was entirely down to him. The non selection of a spinner was down to him. Persisting with two "fourth" quick bowlers us down to him. And let us not forget he has previous. The winter fiasco was also on his watch - both the tournament and the ridiculous approach to the tournament. The pain of following English cricket is what makes the good times so enjoyable.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 3, 2015 13:07:59 GMT
Adam Lyth, top scored in the County Championship last season, scored 1500 runs at 68. Seems he's sprayed himself with a healthy does of Moores repellent though, they seem hesitant to pick him. Oh yes - the Moores factor. Seems we will have to endure a harrowing Ashes series before we decide he ain't up to the job. The Trott selection fiasco was entirely down to him. The non selection of a spinner was down to him. Persisting with two "fourth" quick bowlers us down to him. And let us not forget he has previous. The winter fiasco was also on his watch - both the tournament and the ridiculous approach to the tournament. The pain of following English cricket is what makes the good times so enjoyable. The comment "we'll have to look at the data" he came out with after we slumped against Bangladesh epitomises everything wrong with cricket in this country.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 3, 2015 14:53:35 GMT
Ballance falls, but the lead passes 150.
83-6.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 3, 2015 15:12:05 GMT
That's just bloody reckless from Stokes.
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Post by partickpotter on May 3, 2015 15:22:53 GMT
That's just bloody reckless from Stokes. You could say the same about the reverse sweeps he played. He was being aggressive and that caused his downfall. Came down the wicket, didn't seem to get to the pitch of the ball but still went through with the shot. Very frustrating though! I think it's ok to cut him a little slack on this occassion though.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 3, 2015 15:27:03 GMT
That's just bloody reckless from Stokes. You could say the same about the reverse sweeps he played. He was being aggressive and that caused his downfall. Came down the wicket, didn't seem to get to the pitch of the ball but still went through with the shot. Very frustrating though! I think it's ok to cut him a little slack on this occassion though. Having hit 4 the ball before I just didn't think there was any need to do it, he wasn't pinned down or anything. With Jordan departing I think it's time for Buttler to just chance his arm and throw the bat. Don't expect Broad to last long sadly.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on May 3, 2015 15:27:31 GMT
Should have put money on that.
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Post by stoke111 on May 3, 2015 15:30:50 GMT
I would drop one of Broad/jordan
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Post by partickpotter on May 3, 2015 15:33:13 GMT
Should have put money on that. You'd have had to be quick! A point on Butler - he is too low down the order at 8. I'd have had him at 6 ahead of both all rounders. We are in some trouble here!
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