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Post by cobhamstokey on Feb 5, 2015 7:18:52 GMT
m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/31142797Really feel for the guy hopefully Gordon Taylor will step in and give him the help he needs. With what happened to Gary Speed you'd like to think that some sort of support group for depression is being set up.
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Post by wembley4372 on Feb 5, 2015 7:26:19 GMT
I feel quite sorry for the driver.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 5, 2015 7:28:17 GMT
Depression is a terrible thing and one has sympathy with anyone who feels driven to try to commit suicide. But doing it by throwing yourself under a train or a road vehicle is a terrible way to do it because it brings an innocent third party into the situation. A driver could be scarred for life by the experience of running over a suicide attempt - and might suffer from clinical depression themselves a few weeks or months down the line.
Admitting it was a suicide attempt has to be a first step towards (hopefully) a recovery. But I do wonder if Carlisle has left himself open to a law suit by the lorry driver? Anyone know any precedents for this?
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Post by Trouserdog on Feb 5, 2015 7:57:08 GMT
Depression is a terrible thing and one has sympathy with anyone who feels driven to try to commit suicide. But doing it by throwing yourself under a train or a road vehicle is a terrible way to do it because it brings an innocent third party into the situation. A driver could be scarred for life by the experience of running over a suicide attempt - and might suffer from clinical depression themselves a few weeks or months down the line. Admitting it was a suicide attempt has to be a first step towards (hopefully) a recovery. But I do wonder if Carlisle has left himself open to a law suit by the lorry driver? Anyone know any precedents for this? It is- but anyone who is depressed enough to take their own life is clearly not well enough to think this through rationally. I know where this thread will end up going so I won't comment any further, but sympathy- without blame- should rest with both Clarke Carlisle and the lorry driver.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 5, 2015 8:04:40 GMT
Depression is a terrible thing and one has sympathy with anyone who feels driven to try to commit suicide. But doing it by throwing yourself under a train or a road vehicle is a terrible way to do it because it brings an innocent third party into the situation. A driver could be scarred for life by the experience of running over a suicide attempt - and might suffer from clinical depression themselves a few weeks or months down the line. Admitting it was a suicide attempt has to be a first step towards (hopefully) a recovery. But I do wonder if Carlisle has left himself open to a law suit by the lorry driver? Anyone know any precedents for this? It is- but anyone who is depressed enough to take their own life is clearly not well enough to think this through rationally. I know where this thread will end up going so I won't comment any further, but sympathy- without blame- should rest with both Clarke Carlisle and the lorry driver. I quite agree Td that depression means Carlisle was not in a position to thing things through rationally so I'm not trying to blame him - rather to emphasise that this was a potential tragedy for both Carlisle and the driver and that it could have significant legal implications for Carlisle. I am still intrigued by the legal position though. Even if the driver were to shrug his shoulders and accept that suing Carlisle would not be appropriate - would his insurance company be so compassionate if they had to stump up for significant repairs to the vehicle? Had Carlisle also been driving, it would have been a battle between two insurance companies but, as a pedestrian, I assume that Carlisle (like most of us) is not covered by third party insurance - and even if he was, would it be invalidated by a suicide attempt?
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Post by stokiejoe on Feb 5, 2015 8:14:08 GMT
Clarke always came across as a highly intelligent speaker when he was chairman of the PFA. It goes to show that mental illness knows no bounds. It is a brave thing to publicise and has been said my sympathies go to him, the driver and their families.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 8:19:27 GMT
I also feel for his wife and, if he has any, his kids. She must be on pins every time he goes out anywhere on his own. Wondering whether the next knock on the door will be from the Police. Likewise his kids if they are old enough to understand.
Very sad all round and I hope he gets all the help he can, likewise anyone in the world with this awful and so often ridiculed and misunderstood disease.
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Post by lancashirelad on Feb 5, 2015 8:47:11 GMT
I hope the family and all affected have and get the support service they require. It is a very long journey and at least it has been recognised so help is available and hopefully taken. I have seen Clarke on several programs, one including his childhood which shows life has always been a battle but he is very intelligent and became an icon being an very clever and an achiever for people whom had a hard start in life. Possibly after gaining so much respect when the limelight was taken away it must be hard to revert back to a life and that's where help should be, but we all react differently so one solution does not work for all. Best wishes to the Carlisle family and I hope you can find happiness in life.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2015 9:01:18 GMT
I have no sympathy for Clarke Carlisle whatsoever.
He's a weak coward whether by illness or otherwise.
I have great sympathy for his wife, child/children who clearly aren't enough to fill his life with joy and the poor driver who was confronted by his suicide bid.
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Post by prettything on Feb 5, 2015 9:14:35 GMT
Wow Dave. You have the empathy of a toe nail and the emotional understanding of a piece of cardboard.
I suggest you read up on depression and how it affects a person before you open your soiled gob.
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Post by OldStokie on Feb 5, 2015 9:44:22 GMT
I have no sympathy for Clarke Carlisle whatsoever. He's a weak coward whether by illness or otherwise. I have great sympathy for his wife, child/children who clearly aren't enough to fill his life with joy and the poor driver who was confronted by his suicide bid. I have to say that when I read posts like this, they always fill me with sadness because of people's ignorance regarding depression. It's an illness, no different than a crippled person with Rheumatoid Arthritis. The only difference being, one you can see, and the other you cannot. He, his family, and the lorry driver have my sympathy. OS.
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Post by jarhead on Feb 5, 2015 10:06:33 GMT
I do feel for people with depression but his only reallconcern and to why he is so down is because he wants the footballers wages even when doing his punditry role which he lost.
It's because he would probably have to do a Real job which in theory would be to embarrassing for him to deal with.
I'm probably way off the mark here because I am no doctor but I wish him well and glad he is alive to now deal with things and get help.
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Post by ukcstokie on Feb 5, 2015 10:08:36 GMT
I have no sympathy for Clarke Carlisle whatsoever. He's a weak coward whether by illness or otherwise. I have great sympathy for his wife, child/children who clearly aren't enough to fill his life with joy and the poor driver who was confronted by his suicide bid. I have to say that when I read posts like this, they always fill me with sadness because of people's ignorance regarding depression. It's an illness, no different than a crippled person with Rheumatoid Arthritis. The only difference being, one you can see, and the other you cannot. He, his family, and the lorry driver have my sympathy. OS. Totally agree OS. Very disappointing post from Dave. From somebody who has two people in my immediate family who suffer from depression - to the point of being hospitalised - I know about this more than most. It's not just a case of "pull yourself together" "get a grip". That just doesn't work (it would be great if it did). All rationality goes out of the window. All sense is lost. "He's a weak coward whether by illness or otherwise". No he isn't. He's ill. He's not a coward at all. It's like saying to a paraplegic, just get up and walk you lazy bastard.
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Post by mcf on Feb 5, 2015 10:17:31 GMT
I have to say that when I read posts like this, they always fill me with sadness because of people's ignorance regarding depression. It's an illness, no different than a crippled person with Rheumatoid Arthritis. The only difference being, one you can see, and the other you cannot. He, his family, and the lorry driver have my sympathy. OS. Totally agree OS. Very disappointing post from Dave. From somebody who has two people in my immediate family who suffer from depression - to the point of being hospitalised - I know about this more than most. It's not just a case of "pull yourself together" "get a grip". That just doesn't work (it would be great if it did). All rationality goes out of the window. All sense is lost. "He's a weak coward whether by illness or otherwise". No he isn't. He's ill. He's not a coward at all. It's like saying to a paraplegic, just get up and walk you lazy bastard. How do you know he's ill? He might be telling fibs? Certainly seems well enough to work and annoy us all with his sanctimonious tone.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Feb 5, 2015 10:28:23 GMT
As a society we are all culpable in this. What Speed did, what Carlisle did were acts of great selfishness and whilst their actions are mitigated by their clear illness we seem to make more effort with other conditions that bring terrible suffering, we try to cure cancer but managing mental health remains one of our biggest taboos. I don't agree with what dave has said but nor do I think the 'you don't understand' response is particularly helpful either. We should all be appalled by the abominable acts these ill people engage in, then perhaps we'll do more about it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 10:37:30 GMT
I have to say that when I read posts like this, they always fill me with sadness because of people's ignorance regarding depression. It's an illness, no different than a crippled person with Rheumatoid Arthritis. The only difference being, one you can see, and the other you cannot. He, his family, and the lorry driver have my sympathy. OS. Totally agree OS. Very disappointing post from Dave. From somebody who has two people in my immediate family who suffer from depression - to the point of being hospitalised - I know about this more than most. It's not just a case of "pull yourself together" "get a grip". That just doesn't work (it would be great if it did). All rationality goes out of the window. All sense is lost. "He's a weak coward whether by illness or otherwise". No he isn't. He's ill. He's not a coward at all. It's like saying to a paraplegic, just get up and walk you lazy bastard. staggering in this day and age that there are still people who genuinely think that "Depression" is nothing more than some kind of choice by the person involved to be just a bit miserable and they can simply snap out of it and to the other post saying "How do you know he was ill"...i'd say the fact he was admitted to pyschiatric ward as an inpatient kind of answers that...they don't just accept anyone who's just "a bit down"......worrying some people can't see this. i feel sorry for both Carlisle and the driver and equally, Carlisle's family. regardless of what i think of him as a person (and people talking about how they don't feel sorry for him because of his "Sanctimonious drivel" need to give their head wobble; to simply not care about someone's health based purely on them not liking his brand of football punditry is quite frankly pathetic! the ignorance and general troll like nastiness on this board on such serious matters is getting worse by the day
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Post by ukcstokie on Feb 5, 2015 10:39:05 GMT
Totally agree OS. Very disappointing post from Dave. From somebody who has two people in my immediate family who suffer from depression - to the point of being hospitalised - I know about this more than most. It's not just a case of "pull yourself together" "get a grip". That just doesn't work (it would be great if it did). All rationality goes out of the window. All sense is lost. "He's a weak coward whether by illness or otherwise". No he isn't. He's ill. He's not a coward at all. It's like saying to a paraplegic, just get up and walk you lazy bastard. How do you know he's ill? He might be telling fibs? Certainly seems well enough to work and annoy us all with his sanctimonious tone. How do I know he's ill? I don't, but I figure that somebody has was so down that they tried to take their life isn't thinking rationally. Also, somebody to come out and publically say they're suffering from depression is incredibly tough (just see Dave Johnno's incredibly poor response above as a reaction he'll have to deal with). He's not telling fibs FFS. "Certainly seems well enough to work and annoy us all with his sanctimonious tone". Demonstrating that you're really lucky as you've not had to deal with people suffering from depression. It doesn't work like that. One of my family was happy in the morning a few weeks ago, then tried to take their life in the afternoon. You have no idea who's suffering from depression. No idea. Some sufferers learn to put a face on it. With some it comes and goes.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 10:41:57 GMT
How do you know he's ill? He might be telling fibs? Certainly seems well enough to work and annoy us all with his sanctimonious tone. How do I know he's ill? I don't, but I figure that somebody has was so down that they tried to take their life isn't thinking rationally. Also, somebody to come out and publically say they're suffering from depression is incredibly tough (just see Dave Johnno's incredibly poor response above as a reaction he'll have to deal with). He's not telling fibs FFS. "Certainly seems well enough to work and annoy us all with his sanctimonious tone". Demonstrating that you're really lucky as you've not had to deal with people suffering from depression. It doesn't work like that. One of my family was happy in the morning a few weeks ago, then tried to take their life in the afternoon. You have no idea who's suffering from depression. No idea. Some sufferers learn to put a face on it. With some it comes and goes. presumably he'll only give you or any of your family members any sympathy if he likes their style of football commentary...if not then fuck 'em seems to be the motto of the day
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Post by ukcstokie on Feb 5, 2015 10:57:55 GMT
As a society we are all culpable in this. What Speed did, what Carlisle did were acts of great selfishness and whilst their actions are mitigated by their clear illness we seem to make more effort with other conditions that bring terrible suffering, we try to cure cancer but managing mental health remains one of our biggest taboos. I don't agree with what dave has said but nor do I think the 'you don't understand' response is particularly helpful either. We should all be appalled by the abominable acts these ill people engage in, then perhaps we'll do more about it. I don't think they're acts of "selfishness", more of desperation. It is hard not to see the selfish aspects of depression when you're dealing with it close up though. You're right about mental health. It's ignored and every government cuts it - because it's not sexy with the celebrity endorsements. Like cancer and Aids. Suicide is the biggest killer of men under 35 in the UK. www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/17338696If any other illness were killing that number of young people - would governments be allowed to ignore it? Would the reaction above be acceptable?
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Post by salopstick on Feb 5, 2015 10:58:35 GMT
A lot (maybe most) footballers especially go through their career thinking they are somebody and struggle when they leave their profession.
Not enough education is done within football to prepare footballers for life outside football.
The same used to be said of the forces, but still not perfect but have become much better over the last 20 years
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 11:07:23 GMT
A lot (maybe most) footballers especially go through their career thinking they are somebody and struggle when they leave their profession. Not enough education is done within football to prepare footballers for life outside football. The same used to be said of the forces, but still not perfect but have become much better over the last 20 years absolutely Al!!! football is a profession where the governing bodies are more than happy to chastise the players when they act out of turn because they're a "role model" and "Someone in society to look up to" but do very little to acknowledge the fact that when they cease to have this stature, that in turn may well lead to serious problems in some of those same players when it comes to them adapting to the "Real world" where the comedown can be an easy trigger for depression to be able to take hold. far more responsiblity has to be taken by those within the industry (who are more than happy to profit from these people when they're "Worth something") and also by the public at large to accept, realise and acknowledge that it is a real illness and not just a case of celebrities feeling a bit down because they're not famous anymore. it can happen to anyone, in any walk of life and is indiscriminate and doesn't have any prejudice whatsoever regardless as to that individual's profession, walk of life or general "happiness". all of this "What's he got to be depressed about, he earns loads of money" talk stinks of complete ignorance.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2015 11:48:22 GMT
Wow Dave. You have the empathy of a toe nail and the emotional understanding of a piece of cardboard. I suggest you read up on depression and how it affects a person before you open your soiled gob. I don't need to read up on depression. I understand it fully. Some depressed people are brave enough to seek help and they have my respect and sympathy. A man who could destroy his kids isn't deserving of the same respect or sympathy.
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 5, 2015 11:56:27 GMT
I have no sympathy for Clarke Carlisle whatsoever. He's a weak coward whether by illness or otherwise. I have great sympathy for his wife, child/children who clearly aren't enough to fill his life with joy and the poor driver who was confronted by his suicide bid. You must feel very big now, it takes a brave man to hit someone when they are down from behind a keyboard. Talk about cowardice!
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Post by ukcstokie on Feb 5, 2015 12:01:12 GMT
Wow Dave. You have the empathy of a toe nail and the emotional understanding of a piece of cardboard. I suggest you read up on depression and how it affects a person before you open your soiled gob. I don't need to read up on depression. I understand it fully. Some depressed people are brave enough to seek help and they have my respect and sympathy. A man who could destroy his kids isn't deserving of the same respect or sympathy.
"Some depressed people are brave enough to seek help and they have my respect and sympathy"
It's an illness Dave. It's not about being brave. Some people cope with the illness better than others. Sometimes the illness is stronger. When rationality goes out of the window braveness has nothing to do with it.
"A man who could destroy his kids isn't deserving of the same respect or sympathy."
Maybe a man who got so desperate that he didn't consider what his action would do to his family, or maybe didn't care or even consider, deserves more sympathy? How desperate must he have felt? Rationality goes out of the window. I've had many conversations where the other person is just talking nonsense. Absolute dribble. Were they not being brave?
You have really shown that you have no understanding of depression.
I normally think your posts are articulate and sensible. On this subject your lack of understanding and compassion is embarrassing.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2015 12:01:45 GMT
I have no sympathy for Clarke Carlisle whatsoever. He's a weak coward whether by illness or otherwise. I have great sympathy for his wife, child/children who clearly aren't enough to fill his life with joy and the poor driver who was confronted by his suicide bid. You must feel very big now, it takes a brave man to hit someone when they are down from behind a keyboard. Talk about cowardice! I don't feel big at all. I am merely passing comment on a thread that has been raised on a message board. You must feel like a pillar of society, the moral compass for the nation. Just because my opinion is different to yours doesn't make you wrong or vice versa.
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Post by mcf on Feb 5, 2015 12:02:26 GMT
Fuck it then....give him a medal.
Role model to us all.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2015 12:12:04 GMT
I don't need to read up on depression. I understand it fully. Some depressed people are brave enough to seek help and they have my respect and sympathy. A man who could destroy his kids isn't deserving of the same respect or sympathy.
"Some depressed people are brave enough to seek help and they have my respect and sympathy"
It's an illness Dave. It's not about being brave. Some people cope with the illness better than others. Sometimes the illness is stronger. When rationality goes out of the window braveness has nothing to do with it.
"A man who could destroy his kids isn't deserving of the same respect or sympathy."
Maybe a man who got so desperate that he didn't consider what his action would do to his family, or maybe didn't care or even consider, deserves more sympathy? How desperate must he have felt? Rationality goes out of the window. I've had many conversations where the other person is just talking nonsense. Absolute dribble. Were they not being brave?
You have really shown that you have no understanding of depression.
I normally think your posts are articulate and sensible. On this subject your lack of understanding and compassion is embarrassing.
In your opinion. In mine it takes courage to fight an illness, whatever that illness may be, it takes courage to admit, accept and deal with your own shortcomings and to put others ahead of yourself regardless of the circumstances. Those qualities engender feelings of respect and sympathy for people you don't know. Here is a man who hasn't dealt with his problems, who has sought solace in alcohol and gambling, risked the lives of others by crashing a car whilst drunk and then risked the life of someone else in an attempt to take his own life. Where is the bravery, battle and respect in that?
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Post by kavinoz on Feb 5, 2015 12:12:11 GMT
Wow Dave. You have the empathy of a toe nail and the emotional understanding of a piece of cardboard. I suggest you read up on depression and how it affects a person before you open your soiled gob. I don't need to read up on depression. I understand it fully. Some depressed people are brave enough to seek help and they have my respect and sympathy. A man who could destroy his kids isn't deserving of the same respect or sympathy. And this, I believe, shows your total ignorance and lack of understanding of depression & a total lack of empathy for a fellow human being!
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Post by Gifton on Feb 5, 2015 12:14:18 GMT
Fuck it then....give him a medal. Role model to us all. So he's either a liar or a role model but nothing in between?
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Post by kavinoz on Feb 5, 2015 12:14:32 GMT
"Some depressed people are brave enough to seek help and they have my respect and sympathy"
It's an illness Dave. It's not about being brave. Some people cope with the illness better than others. Sometimes the illness is stronger. When rationality goes out of the window braveness has nothing to do with it.
"A man who could destroy his kids isn't deserving of the same respect or sympathy."
Maybe a man who got so desperate that he didn't consider what his action would do to his family, or maybe didn't care or even consider, deserves more sympathy? How desperate must he have felt? Rationality goes out of the window. I've had many conversations where the other person is just talking nonsense. Absolute dribble. Were they not being brave?
You have really shown that you have no understanding of depression.
I normally think your posts are articulate and sensible. On this subject your lack of understanding and compassion is embarrassing.
In your opinion. In mine it takes courage to fight an illness, whatever that illness may be, it takes courage to admit, accept and deal with your own shortcomings and to put others ahead of yourself regardless of the circumstances. Those qualities engender feelings of respect and sympathy for people you don't know. Here is a man who hasn't dealt with his problems, who has sought solace in alcohol and gambling, risked the lives of others by crashing a car whilst drunk and then risked the life of someone else in an attempt to take his own life. Where is the bravery, battle and respect in that? Again showing total ignorance as to the effects of mental illness.
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