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Post by wuzza on Feb 5, 2015 12:16:49 GMT
Looking down on people who suffer from depressive illness and the irrational decisions they sometimes make as a direct result of that illness is a very strange 'viewpoint'.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2015 12:18:09 GMT
I don't need to read up on depression. I understand it fully. Some depressed people are brave enough to seek help and they have my respect and sympathy. A man who could destroy his kids isn't deserving of the same respect or sympathy. And this, I believe, shows your total ignorance and lack of understanding of depression & a total lack of empathy for a fellow human being! No it doesn't at all. I have empathy for the plight and suffering of all manner of people from numerous walks of life. My empathy simply doesn't stretch to Clarke Carlisle given the circumstances involved.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2015 12:20:01 GMT
In your opinion. In mine it takes courage to fight an illness, whatever that illness may be, it takes courage to admit, accept and deal with your own shortcomings and to put others ahead of yourself regardless of the circumstances. Those qualities engender feelings of respect and sympathy for people you don't know. Here is a man who hasn't dealt with his problems, who has sought solace in alcohol and gambling, risked the lives of others by crashing a car whilst drunk and then risked the life of someone else in an attempt to take his own life. Where is the bravery, battle and respect in that? Again showing total ignorance as to the effects of mental illness. So everyone who has a mental illness commits or attempts to commit suicide do they?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2015 12:23:36 GMT
Looking down on people who suffer from depressive illness and the irrational decisions they sometimes make as a direct result of that illness is a very strange 'viewpoint'. I don't look down on anyone who has a depressive illness. My sympathy simply doesn't extend to Clarke Carlisle given the circumstances involved. My sympathies lies with his wife and kids as well as the driver that hit him.
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Post by wuzza on Feb 5, 2015 12:28:07 GMT
Fair enough Dave - personally I wouldn't consider myself expert enough to judge the exact relationship between a certain set of circumstances and the effect they would have on a specific individual. All I know is that 'weakness' and 'cowardice' are not terms I would associate with depression or suicide attempts.
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Post by metalhead on Feb 5, 2015 12:32:14 GMT
The problem is that those who say "you don't understand", to people like Dave, probably don't understand themselves. Suicide is one of those things that is almost impossible to understand. For someone well and happy to rationalize suicide is almost impossible, whereas for someone deep in the depths of depression, it becomes a potential avenue for thought. Try to juxtapose the two? Not possible.
A certain mental strength is required to get over such an awful mental depression.
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Post by kavinoz on Feb 5, 2015 12:38:03 GMT
Again showing total ignorance as to the effects of mental illness. So everyone who has a mental illness commits or attempts to commit suicide do they? Sorry, Dave, but again showing your total lack of understanding of how mental illness effects people. Mental disorders (illness) are when the ability of a person to function "normally" in life(whatever that might be!)is impared. A person with a mental illness will not see the world & life as you or I see it and will not, neccessarily, be able to make what we would consider to be "rational" decisions.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 12:42:01 GMT
I have no sympathy for Clarke Carlisle whatsoever. He's a weak coward whether by illness or otherwise. I have great sympathy for his wife, child/children who clearly aren't enough to fill his life with joy and the poor driver who was confronted by his suicide bid. ....and that, coming from someone who I'd previously thought talked a lot of sense. Christ almighty.
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Post by podolipotter on Feb 5, 2015 12:50:02 GMT
Just pray that all of those who have had the good fortune to avoid mental illness, never do. It is remarkable how any episode of mental illness can have an effect on your outlook on life. I have been there but now fully realise that life is good generally and that I am a very lucky person in this world. I would never dishonour anyone who has suffered from this disease.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2015 13:05:53 GMT
Fair enough Dave - personally I wouldn't consider myself expert enough to judge the exact relationship between a certain set of circumstances and the effect they would have on a specific individual. All I know is that 'weakness' and 'cowardice' are not terms I would associate with depression or suicide attempts. My view is that suicide is the easy way out, a cowardly way out. I have the greatest of sympathy for people with mental illness. It's a horrible illness that is invisible to many people. Clarke Carlisle says he's been depressed for a number of months and that his latest bout of depression was brought about by yet another drink driving charge. Those who keep saying "you don't understand" are struggling to understand themselves. I have empathy for anyone battling terrible mental illness. I don't have sympathy for Clarke Carlisle and the only thing I don't understand is how people can have sympathy specifically for Clarke Carlisle.
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Post by lordb on Feb 5, 2015 13:10:04 GMT
I don't understand how davejohnno views the world. To be fair I don't think he's on a wind up.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2015 13:11:04 GMT
So everyone who has a mental illness commits or attempts to commit suicide do they? Sorry, Dave, but again showing your total lack of understanding of how mental illness effects people. Mental disorders (illness) are when the ability of a person to function "normally" in life(whatever that might be!)is impared. A person with a mental illness will not see the world & life as you or I see it and will not, neccessarily, be able to make what we would consider to be "rational" decisions. I do understand all of that though and I feel for those people and wouldn't wish it on anyone. I don't, however, have sympathy for the current plight of Clarke Carlisle whose latest bout of depression was triggered, by his own admission, by yet another drink driving offence.
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Post by shrewspotter on Feb 5, 2015 13:12:00 GMT
I have no sympathy for Clarke Carlisle whatsoever. He's a weak coward whether by illness or otherwise. I have great sympathy for his wife, child/children who clearly aren't enough to fill his life with joy and the poor driver who was confronted by his suicide bid. That is an awful thing to say, coward he most certainly is not
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2015 13:15:01 GMT
I don't understand how davejohnno views the world. To be fair I don't think he's on a wind up. Why? My views are fairly consistent. Why are my views on the world important anyway? All that matters in this forum are surely my views on football generally and Stoke City in particular. It is after all a Stoke City message board.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 13:20:53 GMT
I personally don't like Clark Carlisle or the way he goes about certain things, I think he makes himself a target. However, when it comes down to it I would never, ever question the profoundness of depression, and to all the frankly sick bastards who have commented such derogatory posts, I can guarantee you wouldn't be posting such horse shit if for argument's sake a story about Bojan being depressed came out next week, or any other Stoke player for that matter.
Some people on here are so fickle, I would be ashamed to think other fans come on to this message board and read some of the comments.
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Post by PotterLog on Feb 5, 2015 13:22:28 GMT
Fair enough Dave - personally I wouldn't consider myself expert enough to judge the exact relationship between a certain set of circumstances and the effect they would have on a specific individual. All I know is that 'weakness' and 'cowardice' are not terms I would associate with depression or suicide attempts. My view is that suicide is the easy way out, a cowardly way out. I have the greatest of sympathy for people with mental illness. It's a horrible illness that is invisible to many people. Clarke Carlisle says he's been depressed for a number of months and that his latest bout of depression was brought about by yet another drink driving charge. Those who keep saying "you don't understand" are struggling to understand themselves. I have empathy for anyone battling terrible mental illness. I don't have sympathy for Clarke Carlisle and the only thing I don't understand is how people can have sympathy specifically for Clarke Carlisle. Mate, your first two sentences are not compatible with each other. Call someone battling with the very worst stage of depression a "weak coward" all you like, that's up to you. But don't come back all touchy-feely trying to pretend you have "the greatest of sympathy" for people with mental illness - you quite clearly don't give a shit. Have some stones and at least stand by your position on it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 13:25:08 GMT
I lost my mum to suicide aged 14 and have battled my whole life with Bipolar Disorder. I find some of the comments on this thread utterly disgusting and have no place on a football forum.
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Post by ukcstokie on Feb 5, 2015 13:31:57 GMT
Fair enough Dave - personally I wouldn't consider myself expert enough to judge the exact relationship between a certain set of circumstances and the effect they would have on a specific individual. All I know is that 'weakness' and 'cowardice' are not terms I would associate with depression or suicide attempts. My view is that suicide is the easy way out, a cowardly way out. I have the greatest of sympathy for people with mental illness. It's a horrible illness that is invisible to many people. Clarke Carlisle says he's been depressed for a number of months and that his latest bout of depression was brought about by yet another drink driving charge. Those who keep saying "you don't understand" are struggling to understand themselves. I have empathy for anyone battling terrible mental illness. I don't have sympathy for Clarke Carlisle and the only thing I don't understand is how people can have sympathy specifically for Clarke Carlisle. So you don't have sympathy for someone who took an irrational decision to end his own life, caused by a disease that causes you to make irrational decisions? FFS. I've witnessed the same silly thinking when loved ones are suicidal. It's not the person thinking it - it's the disease. Some people have the strength to deal with it. You don't know that YOU would. Nobody does. Sometimes the mental illness is just too strong. Take it from someone who spent time in hospital recently with an immediate family member who tried the same (and you have no idea how difficult it is to type those words), that you really don't understand a thing about this. Nothing. I know I didn't before my first hand experiences.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2015 13:32:24 GMT
My view is that suicide is the easy way out, a cowardly way out. I have the greatest of sympathy for people with mental illness. It's a horrible illness that is invisible to many people. Clarke Carlisle says he's been depressed for a number of months and that his latest bout of depression was brought about by yet another drink driving charge. Those who keep saying "you don't understand" are struggling to understand themselves. I have empathy for anyone battling terrible mental illness. I don't have sympathy for Clarke Carlisle and the only thing I don't understand is how people can have sympathy specifically for Clarke Carlisle. Mate, your first two sentences are not compatible with each other. Call someone battling with the very worst stage of depression a "weak coward" all you like, that's up to you. But don't come back all touchy-feely trying to pretend you have "the greatest of sympathy" for people with mental illness - you quite clearly don't give a shit. Have some stones and at least stand by your position on it. What the fuck are you talking about? I'm not pretending anything. This thread is about Clarke Carlisle and the opening poster saying he feels sympathy for him. I disagree and I don't need "some stones" to stand by my opinion on this. I'm a genuine bloke who has sympathy and understanding for all manner of horrible things that people struggle with on a daily basis. I go out of way to help others and regularly show an ability to put the interests of others before my own. Some would say I'm a soft touch. My sympathies simply don't extend to Clarke Carlisle for the reasons mentioned above.
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Post by Trouserdog on Feb 5, 2015 13:34:30 GMT
I don't understand how davejohnno views the world. To be fair I don't think he's on a wind up. Why? My views are fairly consistent. Why are my views on the world important anyway? All that matters in this forum are surely my views on football generally and Stoke City in particular. It is after all a Stoke City message board. Why fucking comment at all then? You clearly know absolutely nothing at all about mental illness yet feel able to spout off offensive bullshit like you're some sort of authority on what is, for many people, an emotive issue. Disgusting.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Feb 5, 2015 13:35:04 GMT
Fair enough Dave - personally I wouldn't consider myself expert enough to judge the exact relationship between a certain set of circumstances and the effect they would have on a specific individual. All I know is that 'weakness' and 'cowardice' are not terms I would associate with depression or suicide attempts. My view is that suicide is the easy way out, a cowardly way out. I have the greatest of sympathy for people with mental illness. It's a horrible illness that is invisible to many people. Clarke Carlisle says he's been depressed for a number of months and that his latest bout of depression was brought about by yet another drink driving charge. Those who keep saying "you don't understand" are struggling to understand themselves. I have empathy for anyone battling terrible mental illness. I don't have sympathy for Clarke Carlisle and the only thing I don't understand is how people can have sympathy specifically for Clarke Carlisle. DJ, when you say "I have empathy for anyone battling terrible mental illness. I don't have sympathy for Clarke Carlisle" I struggle to work out what you mean. As far as I can see, the only way that statement makes sense is if you don't believe Clarke Carlisle is mentally ill. Is this what you mean?
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Post by ukcstokie on Feb 5, 2015 13:38:03 GMT
Mate, your first two sentences are not compatible with each other. Call someone battling with the very worst stage of depression a "weak coward" all you like, that's up to you. But don't come back all touchy-feely trying to pretend you have "the greatest of sympathy" for people with mental illness - you quite clearly don't give a shit. Have some stones and at least stand by your position on it. What the fuck are you talking about? I'm not pretending anything. This thread is about Clarke Carlisle and the opening poster saying he feels sympathy for him. I disagree and I don't need "some stones" to stand by my opinion on this. I'm a genuine bloke who has sympathy and understanding for all manner of horrible things that people struggle with on a daily basis. I go out of way to help others and regularly show an ability to put the interests of others before my own. Some would say I'm a soft touch. My sympathies simply don't extend to Clarke Carlisle for the reasons mentioned above. So what happens Dave, if, god forbid, your wife, or one of your kids starts to suffer clinical depression? It can happen to anyone. What if they tried an attempt at suicide? Would you show the same compassion and sympathy to them or would you just tell them to be brave?
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Post by georgeberrysafro on Feb 5, 2015 13:48:23 GMT
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2015 13:49:46 GMT
My view is that suicide is the easy way out, a cowardly way out. I have the greatest of sympathy for people with mental illness. It's a horrible illness that is invisible to many people. Clarke Carlisle says he's been depressed for a number of months and that his latest bout of depression was brought about by yet another drink driving charge. Those who keep saying "you don't understand" are struggling to understand themselves. I have empathy for anyone battling terrible mental illness. I don't have sympathy for Clarke Carlisle and the only thing I don't understand is how people can have sympathy specifically for Clarke Carlisle. So you don't have sympathy for someone who took an irrational decision to end his own life, caused by a disease that causes you to make irrational decisions? FFS. I've witnessed the same silly thinking when loved ones are suicidal. It's not the person thinking it - it's the disease. Some people have the strength to deal with it. You don't know that YOU would. Nobody does. Sometimes the mental illness is just too strong. Take it from someone who spent time in hospital recently with an immediate family member who tried the same (and you have no idea how difficult it is to type those words), that you really don't understand a thing about this. Nothing. I know I didn't before my first hand experiences. That's right. I don't have sympathy for Clarke Carlisle. An alcoholic, serial drink driver, a gambling addict and now a bloke who is apparently depressed enough to adversely affect the lives of 3 other people in an attempt to end his own. I don't see a lot to feel sorry for in that lot. Is all of that the result of his depression or the cause of it? He says he became depressed after being on the end of another drink driving charge. Wasn't he able to make a rational judgement then either? As for not understanding, I loved and cared for someone through anorexia, another type of mental illness. We hit some pretty low points along the way I can assure you.
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Post by shrewspotter on Feb 5, 2015 13:52:41 GMT
I think this thread should be deleted, some comments on here are starting to get me worked up (not helping my stress levels) and we should stick to SCFC
my view is that I hope Carlisle makes a full recovery from a terrible illness and he can live his life to the full once again and very soon
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2015 13:54:03 GMT
Why? My views are fairly consistent. Why are my views on the world important anyway? All that matters in this forum are surely my views on football generally and Stoke City in particular. It is after all a Stoke City message board. Why fucking comment at all then? You clearly know absolutely nothing at all about mental illness yet feel able to spout off offensive bullshit like you're some sort of authority on what is, for many people, an emotive issue. Disgusting. See above. I understand it and its emotive for me too. Hence I have no sympathy for Clarke Carlisle. How can you come all holier than thou yet throw uneducated insults around? Shouting loudly doesn't make your opinion more valid.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Feb 5, 2015 13:57:08 GMT
What the fuck are you talking about? I'm not pretending anything. This thread is about Clarke Carlisle and the opening poster saying he feels sympathy for him. I disagree and I don't need "some stones" to stand by my opinion on this. I'm a genuine bloke who has sympathy and understanding for all manner of horrible things that people struggle with on a daily basis. I go out of way to help others and regularly show an ability to put the interests of others before my own. Some would say I'm a soft touch. My sympathies simply don't extend to Clarke Carlisle for the reasons mentioned above. So what happens Dave, if, god forbid, your wife, or one of your kids starts to suffer clinical depression? It can happen to anyone. What if they tried an attempt at suicide? Would you show the same compassion and sympathy to them or would you just tell them to be brave? See above. I loved and cared for my girlfriend through anorexia. We ended up getting married. We hit some pretty low points I can tell you.
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Post by stokeramblers on Feb 5, 2015 13:57:10 GMT
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Post by potter25 on Feb 5, 2015 13:57:35 GMT
I've read the guys book Before I read it I always thought he was a smart arse who liked the sound of his own voice too much Having read it though I soon realised he is a very poorly man and his illness effects a lot of people round him He seems a good guy, hopefully beats his demons...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2015 13:59:53 GMT
These threads only ever go one way and there are no winners. Admin - just delete it before we reach Godwin's law. It's only a matter of time.
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