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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 25, 2014 13:14:13 GMT
You've ripped apart yourself because having said you can't fathom out why we were all at sea, you now claim to know why we were so shit...its all Hughes fault. As for ripping me apart, you've failed miserably. I've said previously that it is/was a mistake not to have signed a replacement centre half for Huth and I also said that I wouldn't have let Wilko go out on loan given that at the time, Cameron, Bardsley, Muniesa and Huth were all seemingly struggling with some kind of persistent injury. Given the build up to the Burnley game it was fairly obvious that we would go into the game with concerns about a) how our back 4 would look and b) how that back 4 would perform. There was a 3 page thread on the very subject on Friday. I can't fathom out why we're all at sea because we shouldn't be all at sea because they're not just been thrown together at the drop of a hat and THAT is why I suggested something else is not right. Jee, surely you ain't as thick as that fcuk buddy of yours. We might have been all at sea on Saturday but that isn't a trait of our play generally. Individual errors rather than playing like a bunch of strangers has cost us so far this season. For me it was a mistake not to sign another centre half in the summer. Had we done so, the cluster fuck that was the first 15 minutes may not have happened. As it was, a back 4 consisting of an injured Bardsley, Shawcross, international jetsetting non centre half Cameron and an injured left back who would rather play centre half was always going to be a recipe for disaster. It isn't difficult to see why a back 4 that was put together on the morning of the game might actually struggle to find its feet early in the game. They exploited it and we gave ourselves too big a route back against a resilient and well drilled back 9. Better teams than us have struggled with a cobbled together back 4 of experienced players who have never played together as a unit before.
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Post by baltipiesmuggler on Nov 25, 2014 13:17:44 GMT
Any chance of calming it down a bit? No chance whatsoever. Some of the bickering and name calling from grown men on here since Saturday has been utterly pathetic. Seriously, scoring points based on referring to each other as f*cking turds or the like... There are kids at school with more maturity.
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Post by RAF on Nov 25, 2014 13:18:14 GMT
Dribble dribble, same as I say, dribble dribble 18 months dribble dribble nugget dribble dribble I'm a whale omelette driiiiiibbbbbbllleee H Nice constructive response. Well achieved. Likewise calling anyone who doesn't agree with your inane ramblings fcuk buddies! H
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Post by metalhead on Nov 25, 2014 13:20:35 GMT
This is an embarrassing post Dave and you know I normally like what you have to say. It's utter bollocks from start to finish. We had a bloke at centre half who was not at fault for EITHER of the goals. Fact. One full back who was injured and another who simply had a bad game. We had a captain who was also caught when the second went in. Our defending is shit, but our attacking is significantly worse. We conceded two awful goals and then looked comfortable for the rest of the game defensively. It is not Geoff Cameron's fault that we aren't scoring goals... or is it? I'm sure someone can blame him. It's not any of the defenders fault that we're missing chance after chance against teams leaking goals like fucking Burnley. The fact is somewhere down the line, we need to look at why we're having 15 corners a fucking game yet never seem to look like scoring from then. We need to look at why we're missing golden opportunities. Nobody has even mentioned the fact N'Zonzi missed an absolutely vital chance in the second half. Is N'Zonzi exempt from criticism just because he's everybody's favourite player? While I'll say it now, for me, that miss changed the game. We had dominated and if N'Zonzi scores that, we go onto win. From then on, we looked desperate. So yes, come get me those who can't have anything said against their hero! Its embarrassing because there is implied criticism of Cameron. He wasn't at fault for the goals as you say but the whole back 4 was unbalanced and a big part of that is/was Cameron who just isn't a centre half. Its not his fault. He was asked to do a job in difficult circumstances and he did it to the best of his ability. A defence that came under little or no pressure at all in 90 minutes conceded twice against a team who generally need to be drawn a map to see where the net is. That says there was something wrong with the "unit". I've given valid reasons as to why that unit struggled. Whose fault that is, is a different matter entirely. It's nothing to do with the fact it's Cameron. I would say the same if it was Wilson. For some reason, our fans like to shoehorn the blame from those who should be held responsible, so they can continue this weird anti-player agenda. It's somewhat embarrassing. Saturday was a shite performance all round really, especially from a defensive perspective, but the fact is, Cameron wasn't to blame for either goal.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 25, 2014 13:30:55 GMT
Its embarrassing because there is implied criticism of Cameron. He wasn't at fault for the goals as you say but the whole back 4 was unbalanced and a big part of that is/was Cameron who just isn't a centre half. Its not his fault. He was asked to do a job in difficult circumstances and he did it to the best of his ability. A defence that came under little or no pressure at all in 90 minutes conceded twice against a team who generally need to be drawn a map to see where the net is. That says there was something wrong with the "unit". I've given valid reasons as to why that unit struggled. Whose fault that is, is a different matter entirely. It's nothing to do with the fact it's Cameron. I would say the same if it was Wilson. For some reason, our fans like to shoehorn the blame from those who should be held responsible, so they can continue this weird anti-player agenda. It's somewhat embarrassing. Saturday was a shite performance all round really, especially from a defensive perspective, but the fact is, Cameron wasn't to blame for either goal. In that case your response to my original post is strange to say the least. I'm not blaming any individual. I'm blaming the collective and offering a reason as to why that collective unit struggled on Saturday. Had everyone been fit and had Cameron been picked at right back I'd have had no problem with that at all and suspect we wouldn't have seen the problems or result we did.
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Post by foster on Nov 25, 2014 13:32:24 GMT
Nice thread.
But didn't the Hughes out brigade (or HHWs / ex-Rimmers) start the same argument after our last defeat? See how they're disruptive and trying to split the board. Pure politics fuelled by jealousy, resentment and their unrelenting blind faith in Pulis.
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Post by tazi on Nov 25, 2014 13:35:46 GMT
I can't fathom out why we're all at sea because we shouldn't be all at sea because they're not just been thrown together at the drop of a hat and THAT is why I suggested something else is not right. Jee, surely you ain't as thick as that fcuk buddy of yours. Alright alright I'll say it That last season under you know who we were all at sea from December onwards but I never saw none of this bollocks mate ? Wezzer. It would explain everything had you have read my reply after I had replied to something that you had quoted. I think you did read it but felt embarrassed not to quote me back and reply. You see wezzer I put something along the lines of how I defended Tony Pulis all the time no matter what and that I understood your comment regards Ryan taking that corner because first of all it sounded as though it was taken in the final seconds of added time so I understood from my always backing Tony Pulis exactly where you were coming from on that. Secondly wezzer whilst I did post on several occasions that the last season and a half was poor under Tony Pulis I also backed him to the hilt, and why?, it was because I backed myself into a corner that he would be a great success 'exactly like yourself with Mark Hughes' and when things didn't go too well under Pulis I still made excuses 'exactly like yourself under Hughes' because It makes one feel that you're saving face but in the end it wears you down and it mostly wears you down because one cannot stand the idea of a manager we like getting grief 'exactly like yourself under Hughes'. So you see wezzer there was really no excuse to in a roundabout way defend Hughes for what happened regards Ryan taking that corner because that was either a complete lack of understanding as to who should be doing or someone thinking that they aren't bothered. Either way it was embarrassing to see and if that was Pulis in charge of a situation like that then same as I've said previously I'd have defended it too when really I'd be aware that it really is indefensible and the grief he'd have got on here would have been 10 fold but I'd have defended it 'albeit wrongly' to the hilt. So you see wezzer I understand where you were coming from and same as I've told you before it'll make you bad. Remember wezzer I also told you that when you're at the match and we go one or maybe two down you'll be thinking of your defences to make to the wankstains. I don't know what minute you thought about making that defence of the corner debacle but I reckon it wasn't in the eighty first or eighty second fcuking minute. Love ya wezzer, always have son, so there it is.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 25, 2014 13:47:23 GMT
This is an embarrassing post Dave and you know I normally like what you have to say. It's utter bollocks from start to finish. We had a bloke at centre half who was not at fault for EITHER of the goals. Fact. One full back who was injured and another who simply had a bad game. We had a captain who was also caught when the second went in. Our defending is shit, but our attacking is significantly worse. We conceded two awful goals and then looked comfortable for the rest of the game defensively. It is not Geoff Cameron's fault that we aren't scoring goals... or is it? I'm sure someone can blame him. It's not any of the defenders fault that we're missing chance after chance against teams leaking goals like fucking Burnley. The fact is somewhere down the line, we need to look at why we're having 15 corners a fucking game yet never seem to look like scoring from then. We need to look at why we're missing golden opportunities. Nobody has even mentioned the fact N'Zonzi missed an absolutely vital chance in the second half. Is N'Zonzi exempt from criticism just because he's everybody's favourite player? While I'll say it now, for me, that miss changed the game. We had dominated and if N'Zonzi scores that, we go onto win. From then on, we looked desperate. So yes, come get me those who can't have anything said against their hero! He has his opinion and fails to see where anyone is coming from when they have their opinions too. It's the same with that fcuk buddy RAF of his. You don't half post some shit. I see exactly where metalhead is coming from. I simply don't agree with him on this. It is impossible to see where you are coming from because you so readily and easily contradict yourself all the time. As for RAF being my fuck buddy...such a ridiculous claim doesn't even merit a response hence I've ignored it for now.
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Post by mcf on Nov 25, 2014 13:50:08 GMT
Equally, 'we' could argue that some of 'you' have suddenly a list of excuses as long as your arm for Hughes that you never afforded Pulis. At risk of going down yet another TP based discussion, I'd be interested to know what excuses you think could have been afforded to Pulis for the abject shit he served up as football during his final 2 seasons in charge. Prior to that is irreleveant because all bar the absolute mentalists could see and acknowledge what a fine job he had done up to that point, regardless of any frustrations they may have had. I didn't make excuses for Pulis and I'm not making excuses for Hughes. Overall, they didn't need them. I certainly defended Pulis though as I would do Hughes. I've read all manor of excuses for Hughes yesterday - Pugs come up with a new one on me....'the stop start nature' Pulis had injuries like all managers but he was lambasted for not getting enough cover in or signing crap. Well Hughes signed a number of the players that many are complaining about - didn't he give Wilko an extension and now he's out on loan!? Doesn't matter though does because overall things are going ok. No manager gets everything right. My main issue with this now though is that there are a few of you who are trying to blame individual mistakes as opposed to entertaining the idea that the leaked goals are as a consequence to our tactics. Take the rough with the smooth as consequences to the way we now play.
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Post by tazi on Nov 25, 2014 13:52:40 GMT
Good lord, anyone know where we are at?.
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Post by tazi on Nov 25, 2014 13:56:38 GMT
So, we had Cameron at centre who isn't supposedly much use there. Who partnered Shawcross at Spurs when Wilson went off?.
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Post by lordb on Nov 25, 2014 14:12:15 GMT
Good lord, anyone know where we are at?. 11th?
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Post by jezzascfc on Nov 25, 2014 14:26:26 GMT
Hughes did not buy a quality centre half in the summer to replace the now seemingly chronically injured Huth, which was his big mistake in the last window. Johnny Tex is "one for the future", Wilson and Cameron are simply not good enough to play regularly there IMHO, and the jury is still out on Muniesa as a long-term solution. The injuries which have lead to chopping and changing at the back have further unsettled us, as has missing the shield that Glenn Whelan provides, neither of which Hughes could have predicted.
A top notch partner for Ryan is priority numero uno in January.
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Post by tazi on Nov 25, 2014 14:31:26 GMT
Good lord, anyone know where we are at?. 11th? FFS.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 25, 2014 14:33:24 GMT
At risk of going down yet another TP based discussion, I'd be interested to know what excuses you think could have been afforded to Pulis for the abject shit he served up as football during his final 2 seasons in charge. Prior to that is irreleveant because all bar the absolute mentalists could see and acknowledge what a fine job he had done up to that point, regardless of any frustrations they may have had. I didn't make excuses for Pulis and I'm not making excuses for Hughes. Overall, they didn't need them. I certainly defended Pulis though as I would do Hughes. I've read all manor of excuses for Hughes yesterday - Pugs come up with a new one on me....'the stop start nature' Pulis had injuries like all managers but he was lambasted for not getting enough cover in or signing crap. Well Hughes signed a number of the players that many are complaining about - didn't he give Wilko an extension and now he's out on loan!? Doesn't matter though does because overall things are going ok. No manager gets everything right. My main issue with this now though is that there are a few of you who are trying to blame individual mistakes as opposed to entertaining the idea that the leaked goals are as a consequence to our tactics. Take the rough with the smooth as consequences to the way we now play. Fair points but I don't think you can legislate for some of the individual mistakes that we've seen so far this season. Take Asmir for example. He's made more mistakes this season alone than he's made in the last 3 years. That has nothing to do with how we are now playing and everything to do with a player not being on top of his game.
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Post by tazi on Nov 25, 2014 14:37:13 GMT
Anyway as my earlier post regarding my defending can be construed as an 'I'm out of here' that's exactly what I'm doing - getting off these threads because it's akin to being an hamster on a fcuking wheel and I may as well go sit in pets at fcuking home watching e'm go round n round n fcuking round rather than keep responding to this predictable repetitive no one is wrong 'including myself' bollocks'.
Just keep ya balance lads after taking a break/getting off that wheel.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 25, 2014 14:37:31 GMT
So, we had Cameron at centre who isn't supposedly much use there. Who partnered Shawcross at Spurs when Wilson went off?. Not Cameron that's for sure. Maybe he felt, given the injuries and the personnel available, that Muniesa was best deployed at left back. I would rather see Muniesa at centre half and don't think he is a particularly good left back but "needs must" and all that. On Saturday, given the injuries we had, we had little choice but to go with the back 4 we did. As Hughes said after and as Bowen said beforehand, the back 4 picked itself on the morning of the game. I never thought of Bardsley at left back, which obviously would have been an option. Perhaps if he was fully fit, that is the way he would have gone. Maybe, Hughes felt it would be harsh to put a player who was barely fit enough to play through the rigours of also playing "out of position". Geoff, afterall, played centre half as recently as Wednesday night v the ROI. Not signing a centre half is looking likely to cost us big time because the regular alternatives to Huth are clearly not quite good enough, consistently enough. Muniesa may end up being but he has yet to be given a run of games at centre half for one reason or another.
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Post by thedeadlyshart on Nov 25, 2014 14:52:24 GMT
Whereas the real reason is that the defence was initially all over the place as a result of one of them being injured, and another one only arriving back in the UK from the States the day before - and starting for the first time in the Premiership as a centre half. They do piss around with the ball too much at the back - but at least they don't just wellie it every time. the us team friendlies were in England and Ireland, and Cameron started last season as a ch at tottenham. I agree it was a patchwork backline though, that had maybe one training session to try to pull things together because of injuries and an international.
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Post by blurtonboy on Nov 25, 2014 14:59:02 GMT
I cannot afford to go to the games and i do not have a computer too see live streaming of games, last time i looked on the BBC website we were in 11th place (ceefax), but according too reading this site we have at least 8 players out of the starting formation every week who are wank.
How does being 11th in the top league in england, mean we are wank, after watching ceefax for over 20 years hoping, praying, that when the page refreshed we had scored, in the fucking wank leagues, when we were WANK, to get us eventually where we are now, and people fucking complain about wank defending, missplaced passes & cunts who can't score in a brothel.
Give me this every single time over that bollocks that happened before, this is where we belong and long may it continue.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 15:22:50 GMT
People just need to get used to the idea that (thankfully) Pulis is gone and is not coming back.
Hughes is our current manager and we need to support him.
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Post by Kjones9 on Nov 25, 2014 15:31:22 GMT
Over 12 games? Have you got them stats? 'stats' is probably over stating what I presented. I simply looked at the league table and we have scored 13 times in 12 games. '1 per game' was an estimate, it is actually 1.08 per game if I am to give our attacking efforts there full due. From memory we did a bit better than that most of the time under Pulis, not much mind, our attacking efforts were pretty dire under him too, but certainly no worse. No then. Made up fact #240
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Post by Kjones9 on Nov 25, 2014 15:43:15 GMT
It isn't difficult to work out why we looked so disjointed on Saturday. We had a bloke at centre half who cant play centre half and 2 full backs who have been nursing groin injuries all season. We then had a captain trying to do the job of all 4 of them. Our defending is shit. Its a worry how we keep gifting goals to limited opposition and soon I'm pretty sure we'll take a good thumping. That said, it id easy to understand why we were all at sea in the early stages of Saturdays game. It says it all that you can't understand it really. So yes, come get me those who can't have anything said against their hero! But you're already here, defending your hero.
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Post by metalhead on Nov 25, 2014 15:56:03 GMT
So yes, come get me those who can't have anything said against their hero! But you're already here, defending your hero. I was just waiting for you to come and defend N'Zonzi. Go on then, I'm all ears....
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 25, 2014 16:28:26 GMT
Whereas the real reason is that the defence was initially all over the place as a result of one of them being injured, and another one only arriving back in the UK from the States the day before - and starting for the first time in the Premiership as a centre half. They do piss around with the ball too much at the back - but at least they don't just wellie it every time. the us team friendlies were in England and Ireland, and Cameron started last season as a ch at tottenham. I agree it was a patchwork backline though, that had maybe one training session to try to pull things together because of injuries and an international.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 25, 2014 16:33:52 GMT
I cannot afford to go to the games and i do not have a computer too see live streaming of games, last time i looked on the BBC website we were in 11th place (ceefax), but according too reading this site we have at least 8 players out of the starting formation every week who are wank. How does being 11th in the top league in england, mean we are wank, after watching ceefax for over 20 years hoping, praying, that when the page refreshed we had scored, in the fucking wank leagues, when we were WANK, to get us eventually where we are now, and people fucking complain about wank defending, missplaced passes & cunts who can't score in a brothel. Give me this every single time over that bollocks that happened before, this is where we belong and long may it continue. Watching Stoke under tony pulis on ceefax was probably the best way :-)
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 25, 2014 16:35:16 GMT
But you're already here, defending your hero. I was just waiting for you to come and defend N'Zonzi. Go on then, I'm all ears.... What's to defend? N'zonzi was excellent on Saturday
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Post by Kjones9 on Nov 25, 2014 16:44:03 GMT
But you're already here, defending your hero. I was just waiting for you to come and defend N'Zonzi. Go on then, I'm all ears.... I ain't gonna defend the indefensible, as some try. I've said on other threads they were all shit (apart from maybe Bojan).
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 25, 2014 16:50:25 GMT
I was just waiting for you to come and defend N'Zonzi. Go on then, I'm all ears.... I ain't gonna defend the indefensible, as some try. I've said on other threads they were all shit (apart from maybe Bojan). That's not true either. N'zonzi, sidwell, bojan and shawcross were all excellent. Moses and Arnie, whilst the final ball was poor each got at, and beat, their fullback regularly. Neither hid despite not being at their excellent best.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Nov 25, 2014 17:03:58 GMT
So, we had Cameron at centre who isn't supposedly much use there. Who partnered Shawcross at Spurs when Wilson went off?. Muniesa. I was hoping he would have played there on Saturday too. One thing Geoff ain't is a centre back. I can take him at right back but definitely not at the heart of that defence. Personally as I said on here before the game I'd have gone Cameron Ryan Muni Bards
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Nov 25, 2014 17:05:23 GMT
I ain't gonna defend the indefensible, as some try. I've said on other threads they were all shit (apart from maybe Bojan). That's not true either. N'zonzi, sidwell, bojan and shawcross were all excellent. Moses and Arnie, whilst the final ball was poor each got at, and beat, their fullback regularly. Neither hid despite not being at their excellent best. Yeah both had the beating of their man but the final ball let them down. Diouf had a real mare and in that system of your front man is struggling it all goes to shit. Factor in two really wanky goals to concede and you know the rest.
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