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Post by Stretfordpotterer on Nov 13, 2014 13:23:23 GMT
your opinion isn't it? I strongly disagree with you and there are four posters on this thread who have posted utter shit about the case, trivialising what happened. This was a case that ended in a jury deciding that a rape was committed. I can totally understand the very difficult debate about when someone should be allowed to get on with their life after having served their punishment for a serious offence. There are no easy answers to that. It is pretty despicable though when you have some fucking knob, sitting behind his keyboard on this message board, judging the young lady who was the victim of the rape, making stupid comments like her behaviour 'does her no favours' when they have no fucking idea who she is and what happened. if you don't think that comments like that show worrying attitudes about violence against women then you are a bit of a thick twat yourself aren't you? There are some very valid reasons why this case has drawn a lot of attention and comment. how drunk is too drunk to consent? That throws up a whopping grey area for a conviction of this magnitude. The accuseds drunkeness counts against them and the accusers drunkeness counts against the accused too? To what point are you responsible for your own actions when you have a drink? If you break the law, all the way, no matter how steaming you are, until the point where you keel over unconcious, you're deemed to be responsible. There is no question of this being in anyway violent, or forced. The witness can't give evidence on what happened because she has no recollection, so on that basis how can a conviction be made "Beyond reasonable doubt"? Whatever your opinions on Evans there are some very real implications of the conviction for literally thousands of men every weekend. Can't say i have any sympathy for him, the guys a knobhead, but it just seems to me that the case itself sets a legal precedent which is open to a massively varied degree of interpretation.
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Post by Malex on Nov 13, 2014 13:26:58 GMT
Ched Evans asked Sheff Utd if he could train with them and they said no.... Ched Evans is now training with Sheff Utd
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 13, 2014 13:27:24 GMT
What is this mob rule bullshit. The only mob here is that bunch of twats singing Evans' name on the terraces. That is the mob we need to be concerned about.
What? The 20 or so Sheffield United fans singing his name (which they shouldn't)?
Or the 161,000 people fueled by the hysteria whipped up by the media who have signed the petition to stop him continuing earning a living as a footballer?
Remind me - which one is the mob?
Mate, I live in Sheffield, we are talking alot more than 20. United fans have adopted a siege mentality on this one. Check the Blades website to gather some indication of how this mob is trying to galvanise sympathy and support through projecting themselves as being victimised by some kind of imaginary feminist mob supported by an imaginary PC media. The vitriol and hatred towards any woman who dares to voice the opinion that sexual violence against women is unacceptable is truly disturbing.
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Post by mcf on Nov 13, 2014 13:27:28 GMT
We all know why this is a problem One - there are plenty of fans prepared to turn a blind eye to almost anything if the player helps the team - witness Joey Barton et al Likewise - the message goes out to young men on the terraces that anything goes and that Evan's (and his mates) behaviour is acceptable. It is not acceptable even if it is not deemed rape Maybe the courts could offer Evans a change of identity (like his victim) - then he could F off and play in this new Indian league or down under - out of the way Save us all a problem and save Evans and his lawyers wasting money on crass Youtube interviews and websites why is it not acceptable? the only true measure of right and wrong is the law of the land....the rest is personal opinion. whether he carries on playing football or not has no bearing on that
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Post by greyman on Nov 13, 2014 13:34:45 GMT
Ethics exist outside of the law. You can do things that are legal but morally wrong, like Ched Evans' best case explanation for what happened on that night.
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Post by mcf on Nov 13, 2014 13:39:37 GMT
Ethics exist outside of the law. You can do things that are legal but morally wrong, like Ched Evans' best case explanation for what happened on that night. I don't think it's a given that it was morally wrong.
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Post by devondumpling on Nov 13, 2014 13:43:25 GMT
There is however, such as thing as respect for others. Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of this Evans has shown no respect whatsoever, refused to make any concillitory statement. As far as his Girlfriend and family goes, if one of my daughters was involved with a guy who behaved like this, i would do my best to make sure she dropped him and had nothing further to do with him (and I would not believe any man or woman on here who calls themselves a Parent would do any different). Apparently her family are part financing a web site proclaiming his innocence! The whole affair is seedy, attention seeking and low life. Footballers are role models like or not. The PFA also come out of this badly as far as I am concerned.
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Post by ukcstokie on Nov 13, 2014 13:55:12 GMT
What? The 20 or so Sheffield United fans singing his name (which they shouldn't)?
Or the 161,000 people fueled by the hysteria whipped up by the media who have signed the petition to stop him continuing earning a living as a footballer?
Remind me - which one is the mob?
Mate, I live in Sheffield, we are talking alot more than 20. United fans have adopted a siege mentality on this one. Check the Blades website to gather some indication of how this mob is trying to galvanise sympathy and support through projecting themselves as being victimised by some kind of imaginary feminist mob supported by an imaginary PC media. The vitriol and hatred towards any woman who dares to voice the opinion that sexual violence against women is unacceptable is truly disturbing. In the recordings of the singing you were referring to there weren't many singing. There maybe some support for him in Sheffield, but there is a massive 'mob' across the country against Evans - led by the media. To compare the two is ridiculous IMHO. Agree with you on the point about sexual violence to women.
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Post by greyman on Nov 13, 2014 13:55:17 GMT
Ethics exist outside of the law. You can do things that are legal but morally wrong, like Ched Evans' best case explanation for what happened on that night. I don't think it's a given that it was morally wrong. You reckon? He's in a relationship yet he routinely books a hotel in advance of a night out along with a mate in case they pull. His mate finds some pissed-up girl in a bar in Rhyl who may or may not be conscious enough to consent to sex but is struggling to stand up and may have had her drink spiked, takes her back to the hotel and texts Evans that he's 'got one' or whatever he said. Evans turns up halfway through his mate having sex with a girl who's barely awake, without the girl's prior consent (assuming she's capable of giving it) and joins in while two other blokes watch and film it all. Evans then leaves by the fire escape so he doesn't have to go past reception and his mate tells reception to keep an eye on the girl because she's sick and has pissed the bed then he buggers off as well. And that's his best case scenario?
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Post by mcf on Nov 13, 2014 13:59:58 GMT
I don't think it's a given that it was morally wrong. You reckon? He's in a relationship yet he routinely books a hotel in advance of a night out along with a mate in case they pull. His mate finds some pissed-up girl in a bar in Rhyl who may or may not be conscious enough to consent to sex but is struggling to stand up and may have had her drink spiked, takes her back to the hotel and texts Evans that he's 'got one' or whatever he said. Evans turns up halfway through his mate havings ex with a girl who's barely awake, without the girl's prior consent (assuming she's capable of giving it) and joins in while two other blokes watch and film it all. Evans then leaves by the fire escape and his mate tells reception to keep an eye on the girl because she's sick then he buggers off as well. And that's his best case scenario? If she had given consent then some may argue that it is morally acceptable. Don't get me wrong, it's not my bag but I'm not here to play God.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 13, 2014 14:05:41 GMT
Campaign against stronger sentences for rape if you think they're not fair. Campaign for the Police to investigate cases of rape more thoroughly and for a better conviction rate because the statistics are a national disgrace. Donate to relevant charities, some of who do outstanding work around the subject if you really want make a difference.
Sqawking on about an undoubtedly grubby man, quite rightly picking up his profession after incarceration, is neither helpful or logical. It's all a little bit 'outraged Daily Mail reader'.
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Post by burberrybassist on Nov 13, 2014 14:29:46 GMT
The lads going to be crap after 2 years out. He needs to get himself abroad for a year or two in the Qatari leagues or the like until the media shit storm has passed. Gotta be a brave chairman who sanctions his transfer though regardless of when it is, I know that I personally wouldn't touch him with a massive barge pole..
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Post by potterglen on Nov 13, 2014 14:57:41 GMT
Since when has serving 2 1/2 years of a 5 year sentence 'serving his time'? Not only has he NOT served his time he is still in denial! The 19 year old girl has had to move area and change identity because one of his 'chums' released the name of the victim and her life was made hell. Yes, what fine upstanding young man who sets the bar at about 2mm from the gutter for all of our young men and boys. I hope the first person to tackle Evans is the girls father/brother. This is a pretty dumb statement. HM Prison decided Evans had served enough of his sentence. He doesn't get to make that decision. He's not in denial whatsoever, he's protesting his innocence. If you were falsely accused of robbing a shop, you wouldn't come out and apologize for being there in the first place. You would come out and protest your innocence. You have to set your emotions aside and look at it factually. If Evans believes he is innocent then we live in an age where he is perfectly entitled to clear his name if the evidence is there to prove it. Her name wasn't released by his chums. Her name was actually made famous by Sky News who made the massive mistake of broadcasting it and the abuse she's received from Sheffield United fans is absolutely NOTHING to do with Evans. He hasn't orchestrated it all. He may, after all this is over, come out and apologize to her with regards to the abuse she has received. He CANNOT do that at the moment as doing so would almost certainly compromise his appeal. Sorry Glen, but you're wrong mate. Guilty as charged, out early and I think you'll find her name was released by 'Social media trolls' - wonder who they might be? Whatever the reason for his release he has NOT done his time. You are correct on every point of course.......mate
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Post by potterglen on Nov 13, 2014 15:13:22 GMT
Since when has serving 2 1/2 years of a 5 year sentence 'serving his time'? Not only has he NOT served his time he is still in denial! The 19 year old girl has had to move area and change identity because one of his 'chums' released the name of the victim and her life was made hell. Yes, what fine upstanding young man who sets the bar at about 2mm from the gutter for all of our young men and boys. I hope the first person to tackle Evans is the girls father/brother. I think the first person that the girl's father/brother need to tackle is the girl herself. That is beside the point though. Either you believe that ex criminals come out with a clean slate or you don't. If you don't, then what is the point. The moral judgment about what kind of jobs people should be able to take after the event makes the laws of the land a mockery. Ah, the girl gets pissed and needs to be tackled argument. How about being a decent human being and putting her in a taxi home rather than take her to your hotel room? Its not beside the point at all and the moral judgement was made by Evans himself when he CHOSE to take the inebriated girl to his hotel room with intent. As for what job he does - who cares as long as its not in a position where it is expected that he set an example to other young men and boys.
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Post by metalhead on Nov 13, 2014 15:38:38 GMT
This is a pretty dumb statement. HM Prison decided Evans had served enough of his sentence. He doesn't get to make that decision. He's not in denial whatsoever, he's protesting his innocence. If you were falsely accused of robbing a shop, you wouldn't come out and apologize for being there in the first place. You would come out and protest your innocence. You have to set your emotions aside and look at it factually. If Evans believes he is innocent then we live in an age where he is perfectly entitled to clear his name if the evidence is there to prove it. Her name wasn't released by his chums. Her name was actually made famous by Sky News who made the massive mistake of broadcasting it and the abuse she's received from Sheffield United fans is absolutely NOTHING to do with Evans. He hasn't orchestrated it all. He may, after all this is over, come out and apologize to her with regards to the abuse she has received. He CANNOT do that at the moment as doing so would almost certainly compromise his appeal. Sorry Glen, but you're wrong mate. Guilty as charged, out early and I think you'll find her name was released by 'Social media trolls' - wonder who they might be? Whatever the reason for his release he has NOT done his time. You are correct on every point of course.......mate Whether he has done his time or not is subjective and not up to you. If I thought he was guilty, I'd agree with you, but I don't. Clearly those who make the decision have decided he's not a threat to society and has deemed eligible for early release. Of course, if his conviction is subsequently quashed, then he'll have lost 2 and half years of his life for nothing? Far too long, agreed? The first person who named the woman was a former Sheffield United U19's player who was subsequently released thanks to his actions I believe. Others posted it and her name was quietly passed around Twitter. It wasn't until Sky News broadcasted it to millions of viewers that everyone found it out. Hell, if you know her name, type it into Google image search and the third row of images down is one of Sky News with her name on a live broadcast. That's nothing to do with Evans.
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Post by metalhead on Nov 13, 2014 15:56:02 GMT
I think the first person that the girl's father/brother need to tackle is the girl herself. That is beside the point though. Either you believe that ex criminals come out with a clean slate or you don't. If you don't, then what is the point. The moral judgment about what kind of jobs people should be able to take after the event makes the laws of the land a mockery. Ah, the girl gets pissed and needs to be tackled argument. How about being a decent human being and putting her in a taxi home rather than take her to your hotel room? Its not beside the point at all and the moral judgement was made by Evans himself when he CHOSE to take the inebriated girl to his hotel room with intent. As for what job he does - who cares as long as its not in a position where it is expected that he set an example to other young men and boys. Glen, I don't want to fall out with you mate, but I'm going to take you to the cleaners here lad, just a warning: 1. Expert witness of Evans/McDonald provided Scientific evidence based on time and consumed alcohol that she was no more than tipsy. Despite being possibly unsteady of gait, the amount of alcohol she consumed would never have resulted in memory loss or loss of consciousness, if you believe his integrity over hers. This coincides with the police report that she had no trace of alcohol in her system the next day. 2. She actually got in the taxi with McDonald. McDonald was waiting for his taxi. She walked over and said "Where are you going?", he replied "to my hotel", and she said "I'm coming with you". These aren't rumours these are facts that are documented in the court proceedings. Feel free to read them, they are available on Google and took me a few minutes to scroll through them. 3. As I've pointed out in the above, Evans didn't make the moral judgement to take the inebriated girl back to the hotel room. She decided via her own free will that she wanted to take a taxi with McDonald back to his hotel. Evans made the moral decision to direct his taxi to their hotel knowing full well that McDonald and she was there. He also made the moral decision to enter the room. He made the moral decision to ask whether he could join in. When told he could join in, he subsequently made the moral choice to join in, knowing that in doing so he was cheating on his incredibly loyal girlfriend. Those decisions are morally reprehensible, and we can only hope that he's regretted them every day of his life. Does it make him a rapist? No. It makes him a cheat and a bit of a scumbag. Intent is a strong word my friend and if you believe there was intent to rape her then that lies with Clayton McDonald, who by the way was found not guilty... 4. Is he? Are kids around the world going to turn into rapists if Ched Evans returns to football then? Give me a break. If you want to use that bullshit, rock stars are role models. Growing up, I absolutely idolized Ozzy Osbourne (outside of football of course). It doesn't mean I turned into an alcoholic sniffing cocaine every night while biting the heads off various animals. Parents are role models as well you know? It's all too easy for some lazy-arsed parent to blame their childs actions on social constructs. "My son shot his teacher because of Grand Theft Auto", "My son violently attacked his friends after listening to Marilyn Manson", "My son raped his school friend after watching Ched Evans score in the Sheffield derby" ???? What a load of utter bollocks. You should think about what you're spouting before lazily posting it on the Internet my friend.
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Post by onionman on Nov 13, 2014 16:00:33 GMT
What kind of a name is Ched anyway? It makes me think of this:
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Post by neoisd1 on Nov 13, 2014 16:04:17 GMT
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Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 13, 2014 16:15:13 GMT
After reading through the posts on this thread one question remains unanswered .....How was MacDonald not guilty when he was having sex with the girl when Evans arrived. If she was incapable of sexual consent with Evans then why was she able to consent to sex with MacDonald a few minutes earlier? Don't get it at all.
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Post by mcf on Nov 13, 2014 16:17:23 GMT
Only because I've been saying it for so long. You're like a fucking chimp hammering away at a keyboard. Every now and then you'll come out with something coherent. GD
well batted knob head
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 13, 2014 16:22:02 GMT
Mate, I live in Sheffield, we are talking alot more than 20. United fans have adopted a siege mentality on this one. Check the Blades website to gather some indication of how this mob is trying to galvanise sympathy and support through projecting themselves as being victimised by some kind of imaginary feminist mob supported by an imaginary PC media. The vitriol and hatred towards any woman who dares to voice the opinion that sexual violence against women is unacceptable is truly disturbing. In the recordings of the singing you were referring to there weren't many singing. There maybe some support for him in Sheffield, but there is a massive 'mob' across the country against Evans - led by the media. To compare the two is ridiculous IMHO. Agree with you on the point about sexual violence to women. Well I would certainly hope there are more people opposed to Evans playing for Sheff Utd, otherwise we are really in trouble. I would argue though that it those championing him are the ones with the mob mentality. Those in opposition come from a much broader spectrum of representations. And you are totally wrong to suggest this is led by the media. It is led by sensitivity towards victims of serious sexual violence.
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Post by MrFlirty on Nov 13, 2014 16:25:18 GMT
Metalhead, very well argued and agree with all you say. Its a moral thing. He cheated on his gf with a girl known locally for having very few morals when it comes to sex. How macdonald wasn't accused is a real mystery.
Eveyone needs to ask themselves, if it was you charged and you were called a rapist and you knew you didn't do it, would you put up with it or would you fight to clear your name. I know I would
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Post by thebet365 on Nov 13, 2014 16:26:10 GMT
After reading through the posts on this thread one question remains unanswered .....How was MacDonald not guilty when he was having sex with the girl when Evans arrived. If she was incapable of sexual consent with Evans then why was she able to consent to sex with MacDonald a few minutes earlier? Don't get it at all. Because she chose to go to the hotel with Mcdonald, thus giving an indication of consensual sex. Ched arrived unannounced and because she can't remember anything they somehow found him guilty beyond reasonable doubt because he couldn't prove that she gave consent. If you wanna read it here's Ched's side of the night www.chedevans.com/key-and-undisputed-facts
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Post by metalhead on Nov 13, 2014 16:29:30 GMT
Wow, just look at that... all men must be rapists then.
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Post by ukcstokie on Nov 13, 2014 16:30:27 GMT
In the recordings of the singing you were referring to there weren't many singing. There maybe some support for him in Sheffield, but there is a massive 'mob' across the country against Evans - led by the media. To compare the two is ridiculous IMHO. Agree with you on the point about sexual violence to women. Well I would certainly hope there are more people opposed to Evans playing for Sheff Utd, otherwise we are really in trouble. I would argue though that it those 'championing' him are the ones with the mob mentality. Those in opposition come from a much broader spectrum of representations. And you are totally wrong to suggest this is led by the media. It is led by sensitivity towards victims of serious sexual violence. ..and I would argue that those championing him are the ones who either looked at the facts of the case, or believe that footballers should be treated like other human beings and once they have served their designated prison sentence then they can continue rebuilding their life. I've changed my view by reading some of the details. Ignorance is playing a massive part in what is happening here. Are you really suggesting that the media haven't plaid a part in whipping this up? Really? (PS I don't see anyone 'championing' him on here. I see people who question the verdict (and looking at the evidence I can't see how it was proved beyond reasonable doubt), and people who think that he's served his time and should be able to get on with his career)).
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Post by mcf on Nov 13, 2014 16:42:02 GMT
I think the first person that the girl's father/brother need to tackle is the girl herself. That is beside the point though. Either you believe that ex criminals come out with a clean slate or you don't. If you don't, then what is the point. The moral judgment about what kind of jobs people should be able to take after the event makes the laws of the land a mockery. Ah, the girl gets pissed and needs to be tackled argument. How about being a decent human being and putting her in a taxi home rather than take her to your hotel room? Its not beside the point at all and the moral judgement was made by Evans himself when he CHOSE to take the inebriated girl to his hotel room with intent. As for what job he does - who cares as long as its not in a position where it is expected that he set an example to other young men and boys. come one...what's the point unless she's had a few??
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Post by salopstick on Nov 13, 2014 16:48:26 GMT
www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/18/legal-watchdog-fast-tracks-ched-evans-rape-inquiryit is a very unsafe conviction - none of the facts stock up with the two verdicts, there is also two much smoke and mirrors it seems a case and verdict brought on by who the defendant is there will be blokes on this thread who have slept with women, or have mates that have - and in the morning thought SHIT how have i got here or have the woman say SHIT how have i got here, not remembering the drunken antics of a night before. this case could have happened to quite a few of us on here, and those few might not have had the evidence or story to convince a jury they were innocent.
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Post by upthefud on Nov 13, 2014 16:55:06 GMT
What? The 20 or so Sheffield United fans singing his name (which they shouldn't)?
Or the 161,000 people fueled by the hysteria whipped up by the media who have signed the petition to stop him continuing earning a living as a footballer?
Remind me - which one is the mob?
Mate, I live in Sheffield, we are talking alot more than 20. United fans have adopted a siege mentality on this one. Check the Blades website to gather some indication of how this mob is trying to galvanise sympathy and support through projecting themselves as being victimised by some kind of imaginary feminist mob supported by an imaginary PC media. The vitriol and hatred towards any woman who dares to voice the opinion that sexual violence against women is unacceptable is truly disturbing. I kind of agree with them. Where was this movement with regards to Pennant, Hughes, Marlon King? This odd sort of feminist movement has got Dapper Laughs (who is a twat) banned from TV. Fair enough, but why is Frankie Boyle still around? Ched Evans has the same right to return to work as any ex-offender. To deny him his rights would be shocking and would show the justice service in a bad light. And what the fuck has Nick Clegg got to do with this?
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Post by adi on Nov 13, 2014 17:28:39 GMT
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heisenberg
Academy Starlet
City 'Til I Die
Posts: 186
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Post by heisenberg on Nov 13, 2014 17:33:33 GMT
Well I would certainly hope there are more people opposed to Evans playing for Sheff Utd, otherwise we are really in trouble. I would argue though that it those 'championing' him are the ones with the mob mentality. Those in opposition come from a much broader spectrum of representations. And you are totally wrong to suggest this is led by the media. It is led by sensitivity towards victims of serious sexual violence. ..and I would argue that those championing him are the ones who either looked at the facts of the case, or believe that footballers should be treated like other human beings and once they have served their designated prison sentence then they can continue rebuilding their life. I've changed my view by reading some of the details. Ignorance is playing a massive part in what is happening here. Are you really suggesting that the media haven't plaid a part in whipping this up? Really? (PS I don't see anyone 'championing' him on here. I see people who question the verdict (and looking at the evidence I can't see how it was proved beyond reasonable doubt), and people who think that he's served his time and should be able to get on with his career)). THIS
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