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Post by Davef on Oct 20, 2014 11:21:22 GMT
I've said it already, neither were penalties to me. The Bony one was incredibly soft and you can see later in the game that every time someone touched him in the box, he threw himself to the ground in pretty spectacular fashion. It was strange how he showed such strength outside the box, yet inside the box you only had to breath on him and he hit the deck. I wonder if Monk will drop him next week? The Moses one was a dive, no two ways about it. Yes there is contact, minimal at best, but if the teams are reversed we would be saying he's gone down easy. Should he face retrospective punishment? No more than Hazard, Young, Suarez, Aguero, Cazorla and a plethora of other big name players who have form for diving. Anyone would think bloody Moses invented diving after yesterday's MOTD!! I agree with this. All the players who are caught diving should get a ban, it's the only way to kick cheating out of football. Personally I'm highlighting Moses because (as you have seen in the thread) people find it easy to criticise a player when he does it against us, but less easy to do so when we benefit. Everyone caught diving by a panel of three after the game should face bans If there was a panel set up, then Moses wouldn't be guilty would he? He was fouled, end of. Same with Bony, who had players bouncing off him all over the pitch except inside the penalty area when he twice went down under innocuous challenge. A panel of the kind you're suggesting would be there to stamp out the likes of Ashley Young who deliberately leave a trailing leg in or just throw themselves to the ground with no contact.
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 20, 2014 11:28:20 GMT
Nah, we win as a club, therefore we cheat as a club ... we should do the right thing and hold our collective hands up and ask the Premier League to deduct points from us and award them to Swansea instead.
Yeah, maybe if we play the game like men and are 100% honest the media will like us for it and pat us on the head when we get relegated. Fuck what the media think, I'd like us to play proper football without trying to cheat because it's the right thing to do. When it comes to yesterday, it's a bit blurrier. Shawcross should be less grabby, but everyone does it and it's annoying when you're the one who gets called out. There was a very slight tug on Moses so you could give the penalty. I'd be embarrassed to go down like that though.
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Post by upthefud on Oct 20, 2014 11:29:59 GMT
I agree with this. All the players who are caught diving should get a ban, it's the only way to kick cheating out of football. Personally I'm highlighting Moses because (as you have seen in the thread) people find it easy to criticise a player when he does it against us, but less easy to do so when we benefit. Everyone caught diving by a panel of three after the game should face bans If there was a panel set up, then Moses wouldn't be guilty would he? He was fouled, end of. Same with Bony, who had players bouncing off him all over the pitch except inside the penalty area when he twice went down under innocuous challenge. A panel of the kind you're suggesting would be there to stamp out the likes of Ashley Young who deliberately leave a trailing leg in or just throw themselves to the ground with no contact. The panel would judge it how they see fit. I think Moses is guilty but if they cleared him then we move on. Something has to be done
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Post by greyman on Oct 20, 2014 11:30:14 GMT
Incidentally, Sigurdsson tried the trailing leg thing on Begovic when he overran the ball when through on goal.
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Post by Davef on Oct 20, 2014 11:32:02 GMT
Incidentally, Sigurdsson tried the trailing leg thing on Begovic when he overran the ball when through on goal. Yes he did. At the game I thought he'd just slipped because Asmir didn't make to much of it, but it was a bit crafty. Monk obviously didn't see that.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Oct 20, 2014 11:34:13 GMT
Incidentally, Sigurdsson tried the trailing leg thing on Begovic when he overran the ball when through on goal. I was beginning to think I was the only one who believed this. I think he played for a penalty but jumped up quickly when he realised he looked like a tit.
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Post by metalhead on Oct 20, 2014 11:44:18 GMT
Incidentally, Sigurdsson tried the trailing leg thing on Begovic when he overran the ball when through on goal. I was beginning to think I was the only one who believed this. I think he played for a penalty but jumped up quickly when he realised he looked like a tit. I thought he played for the penalty too.
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Post by sufolkstokie on Oct 20, 2014 11:44:56 GMT
Incidentally, Sigurdsson tried the trailing leg thing on Begovic when he overran the ball when through on goal. I was beginning to think I was the only one who believed this. I think he played for a penalty but jumped up quickly when he realised he looked like a tit. 100% Quite a few around us went 'o oh' 'shit' etc initially The Crouch pen was blatant - but still ok when the ref does not spot it I guess
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 11:46:08 GMT
The Sigurdsson incident shows just how important referees and their decisions are, and in turn the knock on effects. He bottled giving him a yellow card which gave both sides Carte Blanche to do whatever they wanted.
A swift yellow puts a lot in the back of players' minds.
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 20, 2014 11:54:54 GMT
Did the shirt tug justify a penalty, possibly, did it cause him to fall, no.
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Post by greyman on Oct 20, 2014 11:58:44 GMT
I was beginning to think I was the only one who believed this. I think he played for a penalty but jumped up quickly when he realised he looked like a tit. 100% Quite a few around us went 'o oh' 'shit' etc initially The Crouch pen was blatant - but still ok when the ref does not spot it I guess Watch his leg. About one minute in. link
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 12:04:04 GMT
The player does flick his leg out towards Bego I saw it at the time and can see in the above clip again = cheat. Frank Lampard = Cheat. Dozens of players do this week in week out.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Oct 20, 2014 12:04:51 GMT
Did the shirt tug justify a penalty, possibly, did it cause him to fall, no. Moses was travelling, at pace so how can you KNOW that for sure?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 12:06:16 GMT
Did the shirt tug justify a penalty, possibly, did it cause him to fall, no. agreed but having said that, we all know that whether you go to ground or not shouldn't matter as a foul is a foul regardless as to whether or not it causes you to go down....however, the hull goal by diame just proves that that isn't the case, Flamini did stay on his feet (because the foul didn't warrant him going down)and consequently the ref didn't give the free kick which he should have. it's not down to the players IMO it's down to ridiculously inconsistent refereeing...if the top levels of the game want to stamp out "Diving" then they need to get their refs in order first of all so players aren't in a position where they feel they have to go down just to illustrate to the ref that a foul has been committed against them. that's the reason i get pissed off when managers get charged if a ref is ever criticised; if they clearly do a bad job then anyone should be perfectly entitled to say just that without the fear or being reprimanded because apparently the officials are untouchable. it's THAT that's ruining the game because it ensures the refs go into every game with a delusional sense of self-importance where they can freely make up rules as they go along without any real fear of consequence. yes, there are players that cheat like fuck (as has been mentioned, the trailing legs, the diving where no contact has even been made etc.) but those instances are completely different from a player going down because he feels the ref won't give the foul UNLESS he goes to ground. IMO both instances yesterday fall into the latter case...Ryan WAS bearhugging Bony so it's a pen, Moses DID have his shirt yanked so it's a pen as both are fouls. the reason they both went down was because Oliver was (and is consistently) awful and if they hadn't gone down then neither would have been given. the ref's are equally, if not more, to blame for the current state of things as the "Divers" are.
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Oct 20, 2014 12:09:53 GMT
I've said it already, neither were penalties to me. The Bony one was incredibly soft and you can see later in the game that every time someone touched him in the box, he threw himself to the ground in pretty spectacular fashion. It was strange how he showed such strength outside the box, yet inside the box you only had to breath on him and he hit the deck. I wonder if Monk will drop him next week? The Moses one was a dive, no two ways about it. Yes there is contact, minimal at best, but if the teams are reversed we would be saying he's gone down easy. Should he face retrospective punishment? No more than Hazard, Young, Suarez, Aguero, Cazorla and a plethora of other big name players who have form for diving. Anyone would think bloody Moses invented diving after yesterday's MOTD!! I agree with this. All the players who are caught diving should get a ban, it's the only way to kick cheating out of football. Personally I'm highlighting Moses because (as you have seen in the thread) people find it easy to criticise a player when he does it against us, but less easy to do so when we benefit. Everyone caught diving by a panel of three after the game should face bans One man's cheating in any game on the planet is another man's gamesmanship, you will never eradicate cheating as games are played by human beings and we are all fundamentally flawed, fact. There is not one of us, alive or dead, that hasn't been working some angle in life and football is no different than any other sport in that respect. Here endeth the first lesson The second lesson according to Hansen and Shearer, last read on MOTD, chapter 1 beginning at the first verse... 'verily verily I say unto you says the Lord High Hansen, any contact in the box and you my gentle flock are entitled to, nay it is your solemn duty to go down.' Dear brethren, please send this thread to its final resting place, to the shit bin in the sky and rejoice and be glad I say, because the Lord Hughes (may his name be exalted forever) hath given us three wonderful points today.....
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 12:12:17 GMT
If there was a panel set up, then Moses wouldn't be guilty would he? He was fouled, end of. Same with Bony, who had players bouncing off him all over the pitch except inside the penalty area when he twice went down under innocuous challenge. A panel of the kind you're suggesting would be there to stamp out the likes of Ashley Young who deliberately leave a trailing leg in or just throw themselves to the ground with no contact. The panel would judge it how they see fit. I think Moses is guilty but if they cleared him then we move on. Something has to be done Moses is guilty of what exactly?. Going down when fouled? .
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Post by greyman on Oct 20, 2014 12:13:47 GMT
There you go. See this all the time now.
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Post by upthefud on Oct 20, 2014 12:16:33 GMT
The panel would judge it how they see fit. I think Moses is guilty but if they cleared him then we move on. Something has to be done Moses is guilty of what exactly?. Going down when fouled? . Guilty of diving, I'm going to assume you missed the entire thread
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Post by passtheoatcakes on Oct 20, 2014 12:16:43 GMT
Did the shirt tug justify a penalty, possibly, did it cause him to fall, no. agreed but having said that, we all know that whether you go to ground or not shouldn't matter as a foul is a foul regardless as to whether or not it causes you to go down....however, the hull goal by diame just proves that that isn't the case, Flamini did stay on his feet (because the foul didn't warrant him going down)and consequently the ref didn't give the free kick which he should have. it's not down to the players IMO it's down to ridiculously inconsistent refereeing...if the top levels of the game want to stamp out "Diving" then they need to get their refs in order first of all so players aren't in a position where they feel they have to go down just to illustrate to the ref that a foul has been committed against them. that's the reason i get pissed off when managers get charged if a ref is ever criticised; if they clearly do a bad job then anyone should be perfectly entitled to say just that without the fear or being reprimanded because apparently the officials are untouchable. it's THAT that's ruining the game because it ensures the refs go into every game with a delusional sense of self-importance where they can freely make up rules as they go along without any real fear of consequence. yes, there are players that cheat like fuck (as has been mentioned, the trailing legs, the diving where no contact has even been made etc.) but those instances are completely different from a player going down because he feels the ref won't give the foul UNLESS he goes to ground. IMO both instances yesterday fall into the latter case...Ryan WAS bearhugging Bony so it's a pen, Moses DID have his shirt yanked so it's a pen as both are fouls. the reason they both went down was because Oliver was (and is consistently) awful and if they hadn't gone down then neither would have been given. the ref's are equally, if not more, to blame for the current state of things as the "Divers" are. I love you Mick lad, you are talking total sense here matey, +1000000 from me. I am sick of every game revolving around the bloody totally 100% incompetent officials. Sort that out and we will be having far fewer debates about penalty decisions on here and more about the actual game of football itself. Unbelievable, every other week another useless set of officials come to visit the Brit. Very few do a decent job in my opinion.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Oct 20, 2014 12:16:48 GMT
Was this not a Spanish Penalty?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 12:19:33 GMT
Moses is guilty of what exactly?. Going down when fouled? . Guilty of diving, I'm going to assume you missed the entire thread No I haven't, I'm going to assume you have missed the images of Moses having his shirt pulled in the box, and therefore being fouled.
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Post by upthefud on Oct 20, 2014 12:20:42 GMT
Did the shirt tug justify a penalty, possibly, did it cause him to fall, no. Moses was travelling, at pace so how can you KNOW that for sure? As an adult male of a similar age to Moses, I can clarify that men in their mid 20s don't fall over with such minimal contact. A tug may cause us to slow down but generally speaking it never affects out knees. If you have any other questions regarding mid 20s adult males then I'm happy to try and answer
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Post by upthefud on Oct 20, 2014 12:21:52 GMT
Guilty of diving, I'm going to assume you missed the entire thread No I haven't, I'm going to assume you have missed the images of Moses having his shirt pulled in the box, and therefore being fouled. If Ashley Young did that we'd all say he dived. When does a minimal tug cause a players legs to go?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 12:23:50 GMT
No I haven't, I'm going to assume you have missed the images of Moses having his shirt pulled in the box, and therefore being fouled. If Ashley Young did that we'd all say he dived. When does a minimal tug cause a players legs to go? Do you agree that it was a penalty?.
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Post by geoff321 on Oct 20, 2014 12:24:54 GMT
The solution would be to allow the referee to call on video technology to decide on penalties.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Oct 20, 2014 12:27:18 GMT
Did the shirt tug justify a penalty, possibly, did it cause him to fall, no. agreed but having said that, we all know that whether you go to ground or not shouldn't matter as a foul is a foul regardless as to whether or not it causes you to go down....however, the hull goal by diame just proves that that isn't the case, Flamini did stay on his feet (because the foul didn't warrant him going down)and consequently the ref didn't give the free kick which he should have. it's not down to the players IMO it's down to ridiculously inconsistent refereeing...if the top levels of the game want to stamp out "Diving" then they need to get their refs in order first of all so players aren't in a position where they feel they have to go down just to illustrate to the ref that a foul has been committed against them. that's the reason i get pissed off when managers get charged if a ref is ever criticised; if they clearly do a bad job then anyone should be perfectly entitled to say just that without the fear or being reprimanded because apparently the officials are untouchable. it's THAT that's ruining the game because it ensures the refs go into every game with a delusional sense of self-importance where they can freely make up rules as they go along without any real fear of consequence. yes, there are players that cheat like fuck (as has been mentioned, the trailing legs, the diving where no contact has even been made etc.) but those instances are completely different from a player going down because he feels the ref won't give the foul UNLESS he goes to ground. IMO both instances yesterday fall into the latter case...Ryan WAS bearhugging Bony so it's a pen, Moses DID have his shirt yanked so it's a pen as both are fouls. the reason they both went down was because Oliver was (and is consistently) awful and if they hadn't gone down then neither would have been given. the ref's are equally, if not more, to blame for the current state of things as the "Divers" are.
Great post Millsy you've got it there in a nutshell.
Essentially two players (Bony and Moses) had fouls committed against them but if either player hadn't (unnecessarily) gone down, then neither foul would have been given by the referee.
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Post by upthefud on Oct 20, 2014 12:28:58 GMT
If Ashley Young did that we'd all say he dived. When does a minimal tug cause a players legs to go? Do you agree that it was a penalty?. No I don't, it was a yellow card and an indirect free-kick. It's a mans game to be played like men. You can show as many images as you like but watch it in real time and you'll see that it in no way impeded Moses. Moses has thrown himself to the ground If that has been given against us we'd be going mental.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 12:30:59 GMT
Do you agree that it was a penalty?. No I don't, it was a yellow card and an indirect free-kick. It's a mans game to be played like men. You can show as many images as you like but watch it in real time and you'll see that it in no way impeded Moses. Moses has thrown himself to the ground If that has been given against us we'd be going mental. You can say it's a man's game all you like, but the laws of the game state that if you pull a players shirt then it's a foul.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 12:31:40 GMT
Do you agree that it was a penalty?. No I don't, it was a yellow card and an indirect free-kick. It's a mans game to be played like men. You can show as many images as you like but watch it in real time and you'll see that it in no way impeded Moses. Moses has thrown himself to the ground If that has been given against us we'd be going mental. The thing is this one was FOR us so just enjoy the good fortune it make a refreshing change for us to get a soft peno.
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Post by upthefud on Oct 20, 2014 12:32:23 GMT
No I don't, it was a yellow card and an indirect free-kick. It's a mans game to be played like men. You can show as many images as you like but watch it in real time and you'll see that it in no way impeded Moses. Moses has thrown himself to the ground If that has been given against us we'd be going mental. You can say it's a man's game all you like, but the laws of the game state that if you pull a players shirt then it's a foul. The laws of the game also state if a keeper holds onto the ball for more than six seconds an indirect free kick should be awarded
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