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Post by kidcrewbob on Oct 19, 2014 22:58:06 GMT
What a daft thread - two soft pennos evened out as they often are and a decent worked goal to win the game. Monk should shut the fuck up - Swansea had plenty of chances to be home and dry by half time but didn't take em - that's the real source of his frustration......
A dive for me is when a player simulates being fouled where there is actually no contact or he creates the contact himself - Moses is guilty of neither as there was contact albeit slight but shirt pulling of a forward running into the box at pace is a high risk strategy......so did Moses make the best of it yes, did he cheat - most certainly not.
Retribution FFS - get over yourself...
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Post by upthefud on Oct 19, 2014 22:58:40 GMT
The six second law still applies to keepers. That's a good 8/9 indirect free kicks I want common sense to be applied and diving to be eradicated 'Common sense' is very much in the eye of the beholder though isn't it? If we want consistency then the only way to do that is by applying the letter of the law. If a player is pulled back in the centre circle you'll see a free kick given but you're saying it should be different in the box? No it shouldn't. If Moses had been in his own half and set to play a square ball to Charlie and felt the exact same tug, would he have fallen? Are we expecting players to dive all over the pitch now?
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Post by chiefdelilah on Oct 19, 2014 22:59:55 GMT
'Common sense' is very much in the eye of the beholder though isn't it? If we want consistency then the only way to do that is by applying the letter of the law. If a player is pulled back in the centre circle you'll see a free kick given but you're saying it should be different in the box? No it shouldn't. If Moses had been in his own half and set to play a square ball to Charlie and felt the exact same tug, would he have fallen? Are we expecting players to dive all over the pitch now? It would still have been a foul though, that's my point. If he'd stayed on his feet it would still have been a foul and a penalty because that's what the rules say.
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Post by upthefud on Oct 19, 2014 23:01:32 GMT
No it shouldn't. If Moses had been in his own half and set to play a square ball to Charlie and felt the exact same tug, would he have fallen? Are we expecting players to dive all over the pitch now? It would still have been a foul though, that's my point. If he'd stayed on his feet it would still have been a foul and a penalty because that's what the rules say. Don't think we're getting anywhere so let's call it there.
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 19, 2014 23:02:35 GMT
some folk must have pretty sad lives to argue post after post on here all night long....christ on a bike!!! Leave him alone, he mustn't get much attention at home.
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Post by crownmeking on Oct 19, 2014 23:03:51 GMT
People calling for Moses to face 'retribution' & apologising to Swansea??? I'm done with this thread, how embarrassing.
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Post by upthefud on Oct 19, 2014 23:05:25 GMT
some folk must have pretty sad lives to argue post after post on here all night long....christ on a bike!!! Leave him alone, he mustn't get much attention at home. You still here as well princess?
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Post by liamo on Oct 19, 2014 23:07:07 GMT
People calling for Moses to face 'retribution' & apologising to Swansea??? I'm done with this thread, how embarrassing. It's cringe worthy, moses has been our best player this season and some nobs on here want him fined or banned or god knows what, absolute disgrace all of em
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 19, 2014 23:07:52 GMT
Leave him alone, he mustn't get much attention at home. You still here as well princess? Of course I am, loving every wind up post by you and all these silly Billy's being taken in by it.
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Post by spongebobflathead on Oct 19, 2014 23:08:02 GMT
This is where I slightly disagree with you rob , I much prefer a ref to use common sense , such as using a bit of discretion and restraint when issuing two soft yellow cards or the sending a man off for "a obvious goal scoring opportunity in the box " which is a bollocks rule and often spoils the game !
Refs that apply the rules strictly by the letter of the law are the worst bunch , (ie Atkinson at newcastle spoilt the game last season ) no common sense applied ! As for today ,both soft , both dived ,by the letter of the law both could of been given and were , it was consistancy which I've not got a problem with !
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Post by hooftastic on Oct 19, 2014 23:09:11 GMT
I'm happy for him to if Lampard does for yesterday and every bit of simulation in every game from now on..... doubt that'll happen though
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Post by NassauDave on Oct 20, 2014 3:41:37 GMT
Rangel pulled his shirt and for once that cunt Oliver was in a very clear position to see it.
It's a clear penalty, no question.
Bony was fouled, but in no way did he need to go to ground either. He's built like a brick shit house.
Six of one....
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Post by malteser68 on Oct 20, 2014 4:33:15 GMT
It compensates for all the penos we're denied when defenders climb all over crouch and push him from behind in the box but are never given. There was one clear example yesterday prior to our second goal. Do for me the post which started this thread is non-sense as the majority of ref decisions actually go against us so if one goes in our favour once in a while I'm surely not gonna complain about that
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Post by sportsman on Oct 20, 2014 5:20:41 GMT
Wasn't so much a pull of the shirt as a push when he was running at pace. Usually with any contact the 'experts' say you have a right to go down.
Now we have ray parlour and alan fat head Brazil saying something should be done about moses and a 3 game ban would teach him. Unbelievable jeff.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Oct 20, 2014 5:39:39 GMT
Didn't think either was a penalty at the time and having just seen them again, I'm absolutely convinced they weren't.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Oct 20, 2014 5:53:48 GMT
Haven't read this whole thread as don't have time but my first reaction having watch MOTD was that it was a soft penalty and Moses made the most of what appeared to be a slight impedance by Rangel. However having seen the photo of Rangel from another view, clearly holding on to Moses shirt with the ref and lino unsighted, his only chance of rightly getting a decision from the ref was to go to ground. Which is exactly what Moses did and justice was done. Monk was put nicely in his place by Les in post match interview in that he should learn to shut up until Sky interviewers have had their penneth and also look at the incident before opening your gob and insulting fellow professionals. Going on to MOTD I was mightily pissed off that SJW brilliant winning goal got no comment whatsoever due to them yapping on about both penos and, although I dislike Shearers "entitled to go to ground" quip that he often says when a player appears to dive after being touched, in this instant he was right Moses was entitle to do it for reasons I have stated. Also was that the first time Ryan faced post match cameras........he needs some coaching if it is to be a regular feature.
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Post by Northy on Oct 20, 2014 6:43:08 GMT
Clear penalty. Shirt pulling is a foul and a yellow card offence. Picture says it all, if you pull a players shirt, it's a foul. Pity the linesman didn't flag for that blatant shirt pull on Crouch in the first half
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Post by huntlypotter on Oct 20, 2014 7:57:00 GMT
In my opinion, neither were penalties. Bony was giving as good as he got before letting himself be pushed over Not to mention Ashley Williams grappling with Wilson at the same time.
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Post by huntlypotter on Oct 20, 2014 7:58:47 GMT
Surely the safest thing for any defender to do in that situation is keep your hands away from the attacking player from the angle you see the referee in he's see a hand on Moses.
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Post by andylgr on Oct 20, 2014 8:01:40 GMT
The comment I hate most from commentators is 'there was contact so he was entitled to go down'. Its a contact sport FFS. It seems that in the premier league most refs work on the basis that if you go down you will get a decision. We see it all the time. Swansea players did it plenty of times of yesterday to win free kicks, so they can't complain too much when it comes back to bite them like it did for our pen. In my opinion, neither were penalties. Bony was giving as good as he got before letting himself be pushed over Not to mention Ashley Williams grappling with Wilson at the same time. And Williams was also trying to block Ryan off too, watch his leg when Ryan runs behind him.
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Post by Jamo on the wing on Oct 20, 2014 8:09:21 GMT
Picture says it all, if you pull a players shirt, it's a foul. Pity the linesman didn't flag for that blatant shirt pull on Crouch in the first half That was the most obvious penalty of the day!
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Post by Kjones9 on Oct 20, 2014 8:16:51 GMT
Even when showing it on ssn just, Williams has Wilson in a bear hug as shawcross is wrestling with bony.
Yet it's not mentioned.
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Post by dozintheseventees on Oct 20, 2014 8:28:21 GMT
Don't know where Northwich got the photo from but it clearly shows that Moses didn't CHEAT even if he did make the most of the situation so maybe Monk would like to see that and apologise to Moses (some chance). Swansea's players were diving all over the bloody pitch to win free kicks and, as has been stated, the shirt pull on Crouch in the box was the most blatant penalty of the game. Monk thought their's was a blatant penalty whereas ours was cheating. Hughes thought ours was a clear penalty whereas theirs wasn't..............WHAT A SHOCK. Maybe Monk would like to see a replay of our last home game and the most blatant penalty I've ever seen that wasn't given before he gets all precious about the treatment Swansea get from referees. Just grow up a bit man. BTW... the OP might like to review his intial reaction too.
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 20, 2014 8:52:13 GMT
People calling for Moses to face 'retribution' & apologising to Swansea??? I'm done with this thread, how embarrassing. It's cringe worthy, moses has been our best player this season and some nobs on here want him fined or banned or god knows what, absolute disgrace all of em Moses has been amazing, but that doesn't mean he can do whatever he wants. I was a bit unhappy with how easily he went to ground because I don't think that football is a game for pussies and I've complained about Arsenal doing the same thing in the past. The excuse 'but he's a great player' is why all of Uruguay think it's ok to cheat, dive, be racist and bite people on the pitch.
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andyb
Spectator
Posts: 21
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Post by andyb on Oct 20, 2014 9:07:53 GMT
I do think that players at all times should attempt to stay on their feet rather than go down. If nothing else it would make the referee's job easier to determine who is 'cheating'. But the ritual blame game that goes on about this or that incident on TV in the press etc will achieve nothing. To really eradicate cheating, in this case diving, it would be necessary to enforce the rules consistently and those who REGULARLY cheat like Suarez should receive long bans.
Should the Shawcross holding have been a booking and penalty? If other players who are seen to hold on to others in the penalty area are penalised with a booking and a penalty then yes. If not then no. Which do you think it will be!!!
By the way the debate around Moses is irrelevant in a way. Firstly, some refs would give it and some wouldn't. Even the same ref on different days might give or not give it. One important factor about Moses though is that if he is a cheat as Monk and others wish to say then why didn't Moses APPEAL for a penalty? Surely if you had gone to the trouble of 'cheating' you would try to gain from it wouldn't you?
And most important of all is that if Monk, Hartson, assorted 'experts' and pundits think it wasn't a penalty then I would advise them to check out the final score in today's Sentinel and the league table. The penalty was given, Stoke won the game, earned 3 points and moved up the table.
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Post by metalhead on Oct 20, 2014 9:32:08 GMT
I've said it already, neither were penalties to me. The Bony one was incredibly soft and you can see later in the game that every time someone touched him in the box, he threw himself to the ground in pretty spectacular fashion. It was strange how he showed such strength outside the box, yet inside the box you only had to breath on him and he hit the deck. I wonder if Monk will drop him next week?
The Moses one was a dive, no two ways about it. Yes there is contact, minimal at best, but if the teams are reversed we would be saying he's gone down easy. Should he face retrospective punishment? No more than Hazard, Young, Suarez, Aguero, Cazorla and a plethora of other big name players who have form for diving. Anyone would think bloody Moses invented diving after yesterday's MOTD!!
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Post by trickydicky73 on Oct 20, 2014 9:38:37 GMT
We kick up a stink when opposition players dive so we can't be ignore our own doing it even if it turned the game in our favour. He cheated the Swansea fans who paid good money to come to Stoke today. I'm not saying Bony should get away with it either obviously. I love Moses but all professional fouls should come with a one game ban
Nah, we win as a club, therefore we cheat as a club ... we should do the right thing and hold our collective hands up and ask the Premier League to deduct points from us and award them to Swansea instead.
Yeah, maybe if we play the game like men and are 100% honest the media will like us for it and pat us on the head when we get relegated.
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Post by crouchie on Oct 20, 2014 9:47:29 GMT
what is going to be interesting is gary nevilles take on it tonight, he has always been an advocate of you do what it takes to win your team 3 points lets see if he sticks to that or fall in line with the rest of the media
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Post by upthefud on Oct 20, 2014 10:48:24 GMT
I've said it already, neither were penalties to me. The Bony one was incredibly soft and you can see later in the game that every time someone touched him in the box, he threw himself to the ground in pretty spectacular fashion. It was strange how he showed such strength outside the box, yet inside the box you only had to breath on him and he hit the deck. I wonder if Monk will drop him next week? The Moses one was a dive, no two ways about it. Yes there is contact, minimal at best, but if the teams are reversed we would be saying he's gone down easy. Should he face retrospective punishment? No more than Hazard, Young, Suarez, Aguero, Cazorla and a plethora of other big name players who have form for diving. Anyone would think bloody Moses invented diving after yesterday's MOTD!! I agree with this. All the players who are caught diving should get a ban, it's the only way to kick cheating out of football. Personally I'm highlighting Moses because (as you have seen in the thread) people find it easy to criticise a player when he does it against us, but less easy to do so when we benefit. Everyone caught diving by a panel of three after the game should face bans
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Post by metalhead on Oct 20, 2014 10:58:17 GMT
I've said it already, neither were penalties to me. The Bony one was incredibly soft and you can see later in the game that every time someone touched him in the box, he threw himself to the ground in pretty spectacular fashion. It was strange how he showed such strength outside the box, yet inside the box you only had to breath on him and he hit the deck. I wonder if Monk will drop him next week? The Moses one was a dive, no two ways about it. Yes there is contact, minimal at best, but if the teams are reversed we would be saying he's gone down easy. Should he face retrospective punishment? No more than Hazard, Young, Suarez, Aguero, Cazorla and a plethora of other big name players who have form for diving. Anyone would think bloody Moses invented diving after yesterday's MOTD!! I agree with this. All the players who are caught diving should get a ban, it's the only way to kick cheating out of football. Personally I'm highlighting Moses because (as you have seen in the thread) people find it easy to criticise a player when he does it against us, but less easy to do so when we benefit. Everyone caught diving by a panel of three after the game should face bans Agreed. I'd be happy with this.
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