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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 15:09:52 GMT
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Post by ukcstokie on Jul 29, 2014 15:11:29 GMT
Moeen must have about the best strike rate of any of our bowlers this summer.
Is Cook using him enough?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 15:12:12 GMT
India's batsmen appear a little bored with proceedings
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 15:13:19 GMT
Moheen Ali legend in the making......
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 15:15:38 GMT
Moeen must have about the best strike rate of any of our bowlers this summer. Is Cook using him enough? I still haven't changed my opinion of his bowling , but to be fair to him he has done the job that's been asked of him pretty well....useful cricketer
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Post by ukcstokie on Jul 29, 2014 15:20:07 GMT
Moeen must have about the best strike rate of any of our bowlers this summer. Is Cook using him enough? I still haven't changed my opinion of his bowling , but to be fair to him he has done the job that's been asked of him pretty well....useful cricketer He's definitely not the finished article yet, but he does seem to have a happy knack of taking wickets. His bowling at times though has looked a bit amateurish.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 15:35:09 GMT
I still haven't changed my opinion of his bowling , but to be fair to him he has done the job that's been asked of him pretty well....useful cricketer He's definitely not the finished article yet, but he does seem to have a happy knack of taking wickets. His bowling at times though has looked a bit amateurish. It's only to be expected though ....Spin bowling is the hardest discipline in the game , it takes many years and many overs of bowling to perfect it , it's hard to imagine that he will ever be more than a second string spinner , but he can still improve on what he is now
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 29, 2014 16:21:24 GMT
I was just about to post the very same, I am a Finn advocate, if he is anywhere close to bowling well again he should be in the side , pace and bounce and he takes wickets , they appear to be a bit shy of picking him because he gives a few runs away ....well give me a 5 for 90 against a 2 for 45 any day Indeed, there also seems to be this obsession with our bowlers being able to contribute with the bat. For example Ben Stokes, took 5 wickets over the course of the second test, which despite his struggle batting should have been enough to keep his place in the team. In my opinion if we are to operate with a 4 man pace attack, I would like to see the 4 being Stokes, Broad, Anderson and Finn, because wicket takers win matches, not contributions of 20 with the bat (Although that does obviously help the team) or being able to be economical. If we are operating a four man pace attack - three of the four must be picked solely on their bowling ability. It's Ok to factor in batting capability for the 4th seamer. Out of interest, apart from Finn, who else should be considered for the third seamer slot? Please don't say Tim Bresnan - he's a candidate for the 4th seamer postion, along with Woakes, Jordan and Stokes (IMO at least!).
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Post by tomsviews on Jul 29, 2014 16:29:48 GMT
Indeed, there also seems to be this obsession with our bowlers being able to contribute with the bat. For example Ben Stokes, took 5 wickets over the course of the second test, which despite his struggle batting should have been enough to keep his place in the team. In my opinion if we are to operate with a 4 man pace attack, I would like to see the 4 being Stokes, Broad, Anderson and Finn, because wicket takers win matches, not contributions of 20 with the bat (Although that does obviously help the team) or being able to be economical. If we are operating a four man pace attack - three of the four must be picked solely on their bowling ability. It's Ok to factor in batting capability for the 4th seamer. Out of interest, apart from Finn, who else should be considered for the third seamer slot? Please don't say Tim Bresnan - he's a candidate for the 4th seamer postion, along with Woakes, Jordan and Stokes (IMO at least!). I don't really know as I don't spend a great deal of time following the county game. Plunkett would probably be my second choice for that position. Boyd Rankin and Tremlett were both disappointing in the Ashes, so I don't want to see them in the team at the moment. Who do you think that it should be?
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Jul 29, 2014 16:31:31 GMT
Beauty Mr Anderson.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 16:39:51 GMT
Indeed, there also seems to be this obsession with our bowlers being able to contribute with the bat. For example Ben Stokes, took 5 wickets over the course of the second test, which despite his struggle batting should have been enough to keep his place in the team. In my opinion if we are to operate with a 4 man pace attack, I would like to see the 4 being Stokes, Broad, Anderson and Finn, because wicket takers win matches, not contributions of 20 with the bat (Although that does obviously help the team) or being able to be economical. If we are operating a four man pace attack - three of the four must be picked solely on their bowling ability. It's Ok to factor in batting capability for the 4th seamer. Out of interest, apart from Finn, who else should be considered for the third seamer slot? Please don't say Tim Bresnan - he's a candidate for the 4th seamer postion, along with Woakes, Jordan and Stokes (IMO at least!). Never , never Bresnan again. Please !
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 29, 2014 16:49:26 GMT
If we are operating a four man pace attack - three of the four must be picked solely on their bowling ability. It's Ok to factor in batting capability for the 4th seamer. Out of interest, apart from Finn, who else should be considered for the third seamer slot? Please don't say Tim Bresnan - he's a candidate for the 4th seamer postion, along with Woakes, Jordan and Stokes (IMO at least!). I don't really know as I don't spend a great deal of time following the county game. Plunkett would probably be my second choice for that position. Boyd Rankin and Tremlett were both disappointing in the Ashes, so I don't want to see them in the team at the moment. Who do you think that it should be? I realy don't know - someone who ping it down at 90mph is what I'd like to see! I remember some more knowledgeable folk on this board mentioning some possibilities.
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 29, 2014 16:53:42 GMT
If we are operating a four man pace attack - three of the four must be picked solely on their bowling ability. It's Ok to factor in batting capability for the 4th seamer. Out of interest, apart from Finn, who else should be considered for the third seamer slot? Please don't say Tim Bresnan - he's a candidate for the 4th seamer postion, along with Woakes, Jordan and Stokes (IMO at least!). Never , never Bresnan again. Please ! If we follow my logic that he is a 4th seamer he should be a long way off selection - behind Jordan, Stokes and Woakes.maybe some others in the County Championship. But I think he might be in line for selection soon: our selectors seem to have a thing for players that bowl a bit and bat a bit; not really good enough at either discipline, but offer a bit more reslience should our top order batting collapse. Not good thinking inmy book. Pick your best batters; pick your best bowlers. That's my preference.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 17:12:27 GMT
I don't really know as I don't spend a great deal of time following the county game. Plunkett would probably be my second choice for that position. Boyd Rankin and Tremlett were both disappointing in the Ashes, so I don't want to see them in the team at the moment. Who do you think that it should be? I realy don't know - someone who ping it down at 90mph is what I'd like to see! I remember some more knowledgeable folk on this board mentioning some possibilities. To be honest I don't think there are many around that can touch 90mph .....Tymal Mills from Essex can ,but he isn't a regular for them , Jamie Overton from Somerset is supposedly sharp ,but didn't appear so to me when I've watched him , Stuart Meaker from Surrey is a similar point in case , for genuine pace , well I think it's thin on the ground if it's there at all .
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 17:15:26 GMT
Never , never Bresnan again. Please ! If we follow my logic that he is a 4th seamer he should be a long way off selection - behind Jordan, Stokes and Woakes.maybe some others in the County Championship. But I think he might be in line for selection soon: our selectors seem to have a thing for players that bowl a bit and bat a bit; not really good enough at either discipline, but offer a bit more reslience should our top order batting collapse. Not good thinking inmy book. Pick your best batters; pick your best bowlers. That's my preference. In total agreement with you mate ....always pick specialists , unless you have got a genuine all rounder , and those don't come around very often .
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Post by ukcstokie on Jul 29, 2014 22:46:42 GMT
If we follow my logic that he is a 4th seamer he should be a long way off selection - behind Jordan, Stokes and Woakes.maybe some others in the County Championship. But I think he might be in line for selection soon: our selectors seem to have a thing for players that bowl a bit and bat a bit; not really good enough at either discipline, but offer a bit more reslience should our top order batting collapse. Not good thinking inmy book. Pick your best batters; pick your best bowlers. That's my preference. In total agreement with you mate ....always pick specialists , unless you have got a genuine all rounder , and those don't come around very often . We do seem to be heading back to the post Botham era - picking all rounders who are OK bowlers and can knock 30 with the bat (Pringle, Cork, Ian Greig, DeFreitas, Ellison, Chris Cowdrey, Dermot Reeve, Craig White, Irani, etc.)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2014 23:02:42 GMT
In total agreement with you mate ....always pick specialists , unless you have got a genuine all rounder , and those don't come around very often . We do seem to be heading back to the post Botham era - picking all rounders who are OK bowlers and can knock 30 with the bat (Pringle, Cork, Ian Greig, DeFreitas, Ellison, Chris Cowdrey, Dermot Reeve, Craig White, Irani, etc.) There are some dire names on that list mate .....Pringle , Cowdrey, Reeve , Irani ....they were not good enough to be even considered ok bowlers , let alone batsmen....Richard Ellison however was a genuinely fine swing bowler , I'm not sure whether injury curtailed his career or not ?......Craig White was nothing more than a Ray Illingworth " Yorkshire's best " selection .......let's hope we don't go too far down that road again
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jul 30, 2014 9:27:03 GMT
Would anyone enforce the follow on this morning, given the chance, or would you bat again and get India in later today? I think I would make India bat again,giving us 2 days to get them out again.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 30, 2014 10:09:15 GMT
cook never knows when to declare
get these two quick and enforce the follow on
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 10:11:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 10:22:28 GMT
Pankaj' aka Bungdit In managed to survive but Shami has been done by Jimmy, that's all out lads...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 10:25:49 GMT
cook never knows when to declare get these two quick and enforce the follow on Nobody does these days , the follow on is out of fashion for some reason
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 10:27:28 GMT
A quick 200 or so is needed and then get them in again around tea time
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Post by salopstick on Jul 30, 2014 11:04:50 GMT
watch us labour to put on an extra 250 all day, and not us give time to bowl india out
always enforce the follow on, if we cant bowl them out in 5 and a bit sessions we dont deserve the chance to do a 100 run chase
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Post by salopstick on Jul 30, 2014 11:06:55 GMT
cook never knows when to declare get these two quick and enforce the follow on Nobody does these days , the follow on is out of fashion for some reason wrongly imo enforcing a followon allows you to win by over an innings, thats demoralising we usually struggle to score a quick test 200
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 30, 2014 11:14:37 GMT
cook never knows when to declare get these two quick and enforce the follow on Nobody does these days , the follow on is out of fashion for some reason This is a (fair enough) consequence of the strategy of picking just four front line bowlers. They need a rest. Particulaly if they've put in a reasonably heavy shift to bowl out the opposition in the first innings. Different kettle of fish of course if the opposition is skittled out for under a hundred in less than 30 overs. But there is an extra factor to consider in this particular test which we discussed yesterday; that we only have effectively two front line bowlers in our side. Our other bowling options are two fourth choice seamers and one part time off spinner. Bowling out India in the second innings will be largely down to Anderson and Broad, who of course did the majority of damage in the first innings, and they need tobe refreshed and rested for plenty of more work next time round. Oh for those summer days of 2005 when we had a bona fide 5 man bowling attack with 4 fantastic, complementary quick bowlers backed up by a very decent slow left armer.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 11:16:34 GMT
Nobody does these days , the follow on is out of fashion for some reason wrongly imo enforcing a followon allows you to win by over an innings, thats demoralising we usually struggle to score a quick test 200 I agree mate , but I'm not sure we have a good enough attack to be doing it at the moment ,take Anderson and Broad out of the equation and you are really struggling to take wickets on decent pitches like this , we are crying out for a quality spinner
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Post by salopstick on Jul 30, 2014 11:24:10 GMT
how broken was swann, was his retirement linked to the new regime
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 11:26:22 GMT
Nobody does these days , the follow on is out of fashion for some reason This is a (fair enough) consequence of the strategy of picking just four front line bowlers. They need a rest. Particulaly if they've put in a reasonably heavy shift to bowl out the opposition in the first innings. Different kettle of fish of course if the opposition is skittled out for under a hundred in less than 30 overs. But there is an extra factor to consider in this particular test which we discussed yesterday; that we only have effectively two front line bowlers in our side. Our other bowling options are two fourth choice seamers and one part time off spinner. Bowling out India in the second innings will be largely down to Anderson and Broad, who of course did the majority of damage in the first innings, and they need tobe refreshed and rested for plenty of more work next time round. Oh for those summer days of 2005 when we had a bona fide 5 man bowling attack with 4 fantastic, complementary quick bowlers backed up by a very decent slow left armer. All very true mate
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 11:28:28 GMT
how broken was swann, was his retirement linked to the new regime Well he retired in the middle of the series in Australia , the new regime hadn't come in then .He says he was struggling that much could barely get his arm over to bowl
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