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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 17, 2014 22:58:56 GMT
According to Opta the leagues official stats Geoff Cameron statistically was better than Bardsley by some margin in every stat last season for RB. Soooo...
Going by that... #1 Cameron #2 Bardsley #3 Wilko. Shotton is leaving in my book, Hughes had multiple opportunities to sub him in last season and looked past him he never was an option. He stood up turned to shotton behind him and then pointed to and threw on a cold Wilko vs Chelsea which we all know how that ended. Thus, explaining the phil bardsley move and wilko's extension. Writing's on the wall for Shotts I believe.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 17, 2014 23:04:59 GMT
According to Opta the leagues official stats Geoff Cameron statistically was better than Bardsley by some margin in every stat last season for RB. Soooo... Going by that... #1 Cameron #2 Bardsley #3 Wilko. Shotton is leaving in my book, Hughes had multiple opportunities to sub him in last season and looked past him he never was an option. He stood up turned to shotton behind him and then pointed to and threw on a cold Wilko vs Chelsea which we all know how that ended. Thus, explaining the phil bardsley move and wilko's extension. Writing's on the wall for Shotts I believe.
I agree that Shotton is finished here but I don't buy for a moment that Hughes believes he needs three specialist right backs at Stoke, especially when he's got Wilson in the squad for emergencies as well.
If Wilko had been released on a free this summer then it'd make sense but we specifically gave him a new contract, so it doesn't.
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Post by roylandstoke on Jun 17, 2014 23:05:22 GMT
For my moeny Geoff Cameron was not the weakest link at RB in the 9th best team in the premiership last season.
He looked a decent CB last night and he has shown he can play defensive midfield against top opposition ( Arseshit).
Unless we get offered £6M+ we should not even be considering selling him.
Geoff Cameron has SCFC DNA.
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 17, 2014 23:07:28 GMT
For my moeny Geoff Cameron was not the weakest link at RB in the 9th best team in the premiershiplast season. He looked a decent CB last night and he has shown he can plat defensive midfield against top opposition ( Arseshit). Unless we get offered £6M+ we should not even be considering selling him. Geoff Cameron has SCFC DNA. I agree.
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Post by metalhead on Jun 17, 2014 23:09:55 GMT
the way I see it, if that had been Shawcross in an England shirt, we would all calling it a defensive masterclass. Starting to think there's an anti USA undertone on the oatcake Well I have been thinking it for awhile. Cameron gets stick from some of the cunts on this board because he is an "Ahmericaaan". Leave it to a few of the myopic geezers on here to have a go at a lad who plays out of position to help the side. He was a pillar of strength last night in his second position and had Gyan in his pocket for 90% of the match but heaven forbid some of you lot would be objective and judge him as a player and not as an American. Spot on. We're happy for players to represent stoke from across the globe but when it comes to an American it seems to irk a few people. Don't know why though.
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 17, 2014 23:12:59 GMT
According to Opta the leagues official stats Geoff Cameron statistically was better than Bardsley by some margin in every stat last season for RB. Soooo... Going by that... #1 Cameron #2 Bardsley #3 Wilko. Shotton is leaving in my book, Hughes had multiple opportunities to sub him in last season and looked past him he never was an option. He stood up turned to shotton behind him and then pointed to and threw on a cold Wilko vs Chelsea which we all know how that ended. Thus, explaining the phil bardsley move and wilko's extension. Writing's on the wall for Shotts I believe.
I agree that Shotton is finished here but I don't buy for a moment that Hughes believes he needs three specialist right backs at Stoke, especially when he's got Wilson in the squad for emergencies as well.
If Wilko had been released on a free this summer then it'd make sense but we specifically gave him a new contract, so it doesn't.
Three? Two. Bardsley and Wilko. Unless your saying Cameron is a RB "Specialist" which is so not Oatcake PC. hahaha With Shotton gone that leaves three potential RB options, We have 3 for LB too. Pieters, Muniesa and Wilson. Not rocket science is it... The Wilko nod was for a cup run. The Bardsley signing was for competition and potential starter very equal to Cameron in some aspects. 2 goals for sunderland, okay defender, can go forward. Okay passer, can standing tackle, gets interceptions and is a good pro. Only major hurt with Bardsley is that he had two own goals last season. If shotton is still here I would be very surprised tbh.
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Post by mailman44 on Jun 17, 2014 23:13:32 GMT
I have debated this point with Bayern a thousand times. As a football manager Geoff Cameron is a dream. Why you ask? Elementary my dear Watson, elementary.... When you are fighting on three fronts in the toughest league in the world and you want to have a nice cup run or two you need one thing above all: DEPTH! Cameron can slot in well at 3 positions like Wilson and this is invaluable.
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Post by Gods on Jun 17, 2014 23:17:21 GMT
According to Opta the leagues official stats Geoff Cameron statistically was better than Bardsley by some margin in every stat last season for RB. Soooo... Going by that... #1 Cameron #2 Bardsley #3 Wilko. Shotton is leaving in my book, Hughes had multiple opportunities to sub him in last season and looked past him he never was an option. He stood up turned to shotton behind him and then pointed to and threw on a cold Wilko vs Chelsea which we all know how that ended. Thus, explaining the phil bardsley move and wilko's extension. Writing's on the wall for Shotts I believe. Whatever folks say it is definitely not clear cut that Bardsley is a better full back than Cameron, it's just not.
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 17, 2014 23:20:52 GMT
I have debated this point with Bayern a thousand times. As a football manager Geoff Cameron is a dream. Why you ask? Elementary my dear Watson, elementary.... When you are fighting on three fronts in the toughest league in the world and you want to have a nice cup run or two you need one thing above all: DEPTH! Cameron can slot in well at 3 positions like Wilson and this is invaluable. Exactly. You get it. Throw Muni into that mold aswell. With our exit of the League Cup last season it helped our fitness, now if we have more depth we can have a go with starters or equal players... Hughes is eyeing a cup run... It's blatantly obvious. He wont have to hurt the prem starting 11 if he gets another winger in now. He can sell Shotts to a champ or league 1 side in his outs this summer now where as before he couldn't. Hughes is a very good manager imo he covers his ass with "options"
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 17, 2014 23:23:54 GMT
According to Opta the leagues official stats Geoff Cameron statistically was better than Bardsley by some margin in every stat last season for RB. Soooo... Going by that... #1 Cameron #2 Bardsley #3 Wilko. Shotton is leaving in my book, Hughes had multiple opportunities to sub him in last season and looked past him he never was an option. He stood up turned to shotton behind him and then pointed to and threw on a cold Wilko vs Chelsea which we all know how that ended. Thus, explaining the phil bardsley move and wilko's extension. Writing's on the wall for Shotts I believe. Whatever folks say it is definitely not clear cut that Bardsley is a better full back than Cameron, it's just not. I'd say they are very comparable as I found to be quite eye opening, they have similar attributes going forward and "ok" defensive abilities much like a Spanish style WB minus the 80% passing rating. lol He's doing what he can on a budget and imo doing an amazing job.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 17, 2014 23:27:38 GMT
I agree that Shotton is finished here but I don't buy for a moment that Hughes believes he needs three specialist right backs at Stoke, especially when he's got Wilson in the squad for emergencies as well.
If Wilko had been released on a free this summer then it'd make sense but we specifically gave him a new contract, so it doesn't.
Three? Two. Bardsley and Wilko. Unless your saying Cameron is a RB "Specialist" which is so not Oatcake PC. hahaha With Shotton gone that leaves three potential RB options, We have 3 for LB too. Pieters, Muniesa and Wilson. Not rocket science is it... The Wilko nod was for a cup run. The Bardsley signing was for competition and potential starter very equal to Cameron in some aspects. 2 goals for sunderland, okay defender, can go forward. Okay passer, can standing tackle, gets interceptions and is a good pro. Only major hurt with Bardsley is that he had two own goals last season. If shotton is still here I would be very surprised tbh.
Yeah three, it was YOU who claimed three and it was me who was arguing against it.
And you really believe we gave Wilko a new contract just to play cup games?
How come you can include Wilson in the list of left backs but not include him in the list of right backs, that would make it four in that position then, wouldn't it?
Just step back and consider the evidence logically, at the moment you're coming up with illogical suggestions because you can't bare to believe that Cameron might be playing somewhere else in the team or (shock, horror) he might have decided he'd like to go to a club who is going to guarantee him first team football.
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Post by roylandstoke on Jun 17, 2014 23:35:30 GMT
Cameron, Bardsley, Wilson, Wilko for RB.
Pieters, Muniesa, Wilson for LB.
Shawcross, Wilson, Huth, Cameron, Muniesa for CB.
In that order for each position in my opinion.
We look strong for back 4 options.
Geof Cameron, Marc Wilsn and Marc Muniesa also offer good cover for Whelan in defensive midfield.
For my money Cameron is first choice RB, and very close to playing CB and holding mid for the first 11.
A player with those skills is worth £6M+ and should not be released umless we get a mad offer.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 17, 2014 23:38:56 GMT
Cameron, Bardsley, Wilson, Wilko for RB. Pieters, Muniesa, Wilson for LB. Shawcross, Wilson, Huth, Cameron, Muniesa for CB. In that order for each position in my opinion. We look strong for back 4 options. Geof Cameron, Marc Wilsn and Marc Muniesa also offer good cover for Whelan in defensive midfield. For my money Cameron is first choice RB, and very close to playing CB and holding mid for the first 11. A player with those skills is worth £6M+ and should not be released umless we get a mad offer.
So we've just given a 28 year old a new contract so that he can be FOURTH choice for a position in the team which is the only position in the team that he can play?
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it?
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 17, 2014 23:41:07 GMT
Three? Two. Bardsley and Wilko. Unless your saying Cameron is a RB "Specialist" which is so not Oatcake PC. hahaha With Shotton gone that leaves three potential RB options, We have 3 for LB too. Pieters, Muniesa and Wilson. Not rocket science is it... The Wilko nod was for a cup run. The Bardsley signing was for competition and potential starter very equal to Cameron in some aspects. 2 goals for sunderland, okay defender, can go forward. Okay passer, can standing tackle, gets interceptions and is a good pro. Only major hurt with Bardsley is that he had two own goals last season. If shotton is still here I would be very surprised tbh.
Yeah three, it was YOU who claimed three and it was me who was arguing against it.
And you really believe we gave Wilko a new contract just to play cup games?
How come you can include Wilson in the list of left backs but not include him in the list of right backs, that would make it four in that position then, wouldn't it?
Just step back and consider the evidence logically, at the moment you're coming up with illogical suggestions because you can't bare to believe that Cameron might be playing somewhere else in the team or (shock, horror) he might have decided he'd like to go to a club who is going to guarantee him first team football.
Well seeing as how your spouting about "logic" seeing that Cameron was our starter last season at RB all season... it's logical to think he'd be the starter going in seeing that Bardsley isn't any miles better... logically and "statistically" and "factually"... it's not like we bought Zabaleta. Until the starting 11 is named it's all based on previous information and last season and before. You really think Wilko was given a new contract to start? lol You realise he won't before either Cameron or Bardsley right? Then why would Hughes re-sign him? for old memories? It's for depth, for cup runs, the FA and League Cup. Wilson isn't a RB so no I would never want him listed there he's "attempted" to play it but he's mostly been on the left and cdm for us so to think Hughes would "logically" put him at RB at all next season is up there. I think your giving Cameron more credit or you have a undying angst that you hope he's sold because I really doubt there is a hidden deal he's leaving "logically" and to guarantee that he won't have first team football in a side he helped get to #9 in almost every game last season isn't very logical... at that rate lets push nzonzi, arnie, whelan and ryan out the door...
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Post by roylandstoke on Jun 17, 2014 23:43:04 GMT
Cameron, Bardsley, Wilson, Wilko for RB. Pieters, Muniesa, Wilson for LB. Shawcross, Wilson, Huth, Cameron, Muniesa for CB. In that order for each position in my opinion. We look strong for back 4 options. Geof Cameron, Marc Wilsn and Marc Muniesa also offer good cover for Whelan in defensive midfield. For my money Cameron is first choice RB, and very close to playing CB and holding mid for the first 11. A player with those skills is worth £6M+ and should not be released umless we get a mad offer.
So we've just given a 28 year old a new contract so that he can be FOURTH choice for a position in the team which is the only position in the team that he can play?
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it?
The Wilko contract makes no sense at all.
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 17, 2014 23:44:27 GMT
Cameron, Bardsley, Wilson, Wilko for RB. Pieters, Muniesa, Wilson for LB. Shawcross, Wilson, Huth, Cameron, Muniesa for CB. In that order for each position in my opinion. We look strong for back 4 options. Geof Cameron, Marc Wilsn and Marc Muniesa also offer good cover for Whelan in defensive midfield. For my money Cameron is first choice RB, and very close to playing CB and holding mid for the first 11. A player with those skills is worth £6M+ and should not be released umless we get a mad offer.
So we've just given a 28 year old a new contract so that he can be FOURTH choice for a position in the team which is the only position in the team that he can play?
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it?
Did resigning Sidibe make as much sense??? It's half a thank you as it is an option.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 17, 2014 23:50:48 GMT
Yeah three, it was YOU who claimed three and it was me who was arguing against it.
And you really believe we gave Wilko a new contract just to play cup games?
How come you can include Wilson in the list of left backs but not include him in the list of right backs, that would make it four in that position then, wouldn't it?
Just step back and consider the evidence logically, at the moment you're coming up with illogical suggestions because you can't bare to believe that Cameron might be playing somewhere else in the team or (shock, horror) he might have decided he'd like to go to a club who is going to guarantee him first team football.
Well seeing as how your spouting about "logic" seeing that Cameron was our starter last season at RB all season... it's logical to think he'd be the starter going in seeing that Bardsley isn't any miles better... logically and "statistically" and "factually"... it's not like we bought Zabaleta. Until the starting 11 is named it's all based on previous information and last season and before. You really think Wilko was given a new contract to start? lol You realise he won't before either Cameron or Bardsley right? Then why would Hughes re-sign him? for old memories? It's for depth, for cup runs, the FA and League Cup. Wilson isn't a RB so no I would never want him listed there he's "attempted" to play it but he's mostly been on the left and cdm for us so to think Hughes would "logically" put him at RB at all next season is up there. I think your giving Cameron more credit or you have a undying angst that you hope he's sold because I really doubt there is a hidden deal he's leaving "logically" and to guarantee that he won't have first team football in a side he helped get to #9 in almost every game last season isn't very logical... at that rate lets push nzonzi, arnie, whelan and ryan out the door...
1. I haven't even remotely suggested that Wilko has been given a new contract in order for him to be first choice, so why would you suggest that I've said that?
2. There is absolutely no logic to your claim that because Cameron was a starter at right back last season, then he will be an automatic starter there next season. Who do you think is going to be leading the line for us next season Crouch or Diouf?
3. Wilson has played (and played well) at right back for us tons of times - you do him a disservice by suggesting he isn't good enough to stand in there if needs be.
4. Undying angst? With respect chap, I think there's only one person guilty of that here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2014 23:52:12 GMT
Don't mention Sidibe to me ....FFS...!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 17, 2014 23:52:53 GMT
So we've just given a 28 year old a new contract so that he can be FOURTH choice for a position in the team which is the only position in the team that he can play?
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it?
Did resigning Sidibe make as much sense??? It's half a thank you as it is an option.
A 'thank you' at 28, are we going to keep giving him contracts until he's in his mid 30's then?
And besides, we're talking about Mark Hughes here, not Tony Pulis.
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 18, 2014 0:03:18 GMT
Well seeing as how your spouting about "logic" seeing that Cameron was our starter last season at RB all season... it's logical to think he'd be the starter going in seeing that Bardsley isn't any miles better... logically and "statistically" and "factually"... it's not like we bought Zabaleta. Until the starting 11 is named it's all based on previous information and last season and before. You really think Wilko was given a new contract to start? lol You realise he won't before either Cameron or Bardsley right? Then why would Hughes re-sign him? for old memories? It's for depth, for cup runs, the FA and League Cup. Wilson isn't a RB so no I would never want him listed there he's "attempted" to play it but he's mostly been on the left and cdm for us so to think Hughes would "logically" put him at RB at all next season is up there. I think your giving Cameron more credit or you have a undying angst that you hope he's sold because I really doubt there is a hidden deal he's leaving "logically" and to guarantee that he won't have first team football in a side he helped get to #9 in almost every game last season isn't very logical... at that rate lets push nzonzi, arnie, whelan and ryan out the door...
1. I haven't even remotely suggested that Wilko has been given a new contract in order for him to be first choice, so why would you suggest that I've said that?
2. There is absolutely no logic to your claim that because Cameron was a starter at right back last season, then he will be an automatic starter there next season. Who do you think is going to be leading the line for us next season Crouch or Diouf?
3. Wilson has played (and played well) at right back for us tons of times - you do him a disservice by suggesting he isn't good enough to stand in there if needs be.
4. Undying angst? With respect chap, I think there's only one person guilty of that here.
Yes, because the comparison between Cameron and Bardsley is remotely similar to the skill divide between Crouch and Diouf... Will you be surprised to see Geoff our RB? I won't. Or are you logically saying that he can't be our starter? Now who has the angst? To be honest Wilson hasn't played RB in a long time so' yeah not going down that road it's a waste of time and especially under hughes he hasn't. He can play there, but barring injury' he wont be moved sides. The only thing I'm guilty of is backing one of the better RBs in the league last season every week versus moronic comments made by people that are nonfactual and opinionated on this board. Factually and statistically there is this idea bardsley is a better defender, well by the league stats, personal stats, goals for and against and positions of both respective players teams at the end of the season. Cameron was better by a little margin. It's the truth.
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 18, 2014 0:06:18 GMT
Did resigning Sidibe make as much sense??? It's half a thank you as it is an option.
A 'thank you' at 28, are we going to keep giving him contracts until he's in his mid 30's then?
And besides, we're talking about Mark Hughes here, not Tony Pulis.
Yea. Its what Stoke does, it tears at the heart of PC that move. The players he admires are getting moved out fast by the clubs progress, he's a softy and besides it's his money. Not Hughes's. It's not like it hasn't happened here before... Sidibe is a example of that. Sorry mumf.
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Post by Gods on Jun 18, 2014 0:10:14 GMT
Cameron, Bardsley, Wilson, Wilko for RB. Pieters, Muniesa, Wilson for LB. Shawcross, Wilson, Huth, Cameron, Muniesa for CB. In that order for each position in my opinion. We look strong for back 4 options. Geof Cameron, Marc Wilsn and Marc Muniesa also offer good cover for Whelan in defensive midfield. For my money Cameron is first choice RB, and very close to playing CB and holding mid for the first 11. A player with those skills is worth £6M+ and should not be released umless we get a mad offer.
So we've just given a 28 year old a new contract so that he can be FOURTH choice for a position in the team which is the only position in the team that he can play?
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it?
Paul, I know you are anxious to find a rational explanation for the Wilko extension, but you won't find one, because there isn't one. Of course there was one (cover for Cameron) up to the point we signed Bardlsey. And that is why the order of events matters. Which is where I came in.
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 18, 2014 0:15:53 GMT
So we've just given a 28 year old a new contract so that he can be FOURTH choice for a position in the team which is the only position in the team that he can play?
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it?
Paul, I know you are anxious to find a rational explanation for the Wilko extension, but you won't find one, because there isn't one. Of course there was one (cover for Cameron) up to the point we signed Bardlsey. And that is why the order of events matters. Which is where I came in. The thing you need to be anxious to find out is why has Shotton been overlooked and shunned by hughes? Why was Wilko so fastly signed yet there is no speak of Shotton's future or lack of one in the potteries.? Wilko has proven his worth and his loyalty is worth signing in and of itself in my opinion. I think that Bardsley surprised Stoke and it surprised the transfer team because they had figured to extend wilko as cover for cameron initially and maybe expect to spend on a better RB where as we got a freebie for a similar quality of RB.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 18, 2014 0:16:12 GMT
1. I haven't even remotely suggested that Wilko has been given a new contract in order for him to be first choice, so why would you suggest that I've said that?
2. There is absolutely no logic to your claim that because Cameron was a starter at right back last season, then he will be an automatic starter there next season. Who do you think is going to be leading the line for us next season Crouch or Diouf?
3. Wilson has played (and played well) at right back for us tons of times - you do him a disservice by suggesting he isn't good enough to stand in there if needs be.
4. Undying angst? With respect chap, I think there's only one person guilty of that here.
Yes, because the comparison between Cameron and Bardsley is remotely similar to the skill divide between Crouch and Diouf... Will you be surprised to see Geoff or RB?Or are you logically not saying that he can't be our starter? Now who has the angst? To be honest Wilson hasn't played RB in a long time so' yeah not going down that road it's a waste of time and especially under hughes he hasn't. He can play there, but barring injury' he wont be moved sides. The only thing I'm guilty of is backing one of the better RBs in the league last season every week versus moronic comments made by people that are nonfactual and opinionated on this board. Factually and statistically there is this idea bardsley is a better defender, well by the league stats, personal stats, goals for and against and positions of both respective players teams at the end of the season. Cameron was better a little margin. It's the truth.
Wilson hasn't played left back under Hughes either has he? He's just as capable of being a third choice right back as he's capable of being a third choice left back - it's churlish so suggest otherwise.
You don't like it because it buggers up your argument but giving Wilko a new contract AND signing Bardsley doesn't make a whole lot of sense if Cameron is going to be a major feature at right back next season, I (unlike you) haven't got an awful lot invested in an opinion on Cameron but rather mine is based on clear cut logic.
I'm surprised that you're so clear cut in your opinion on Diouf over Crouch - how much of Diouf have you actually seen?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 18, 2014 0:17:37 GMT
A 'thank you' at 28, are we going to keep giving him contracts until he's in his mid 30's then?
And besides, we're talking about Mark Hughes here, not Tony Pulis.
Yea. Its what Stoke does, it tears at the heart of PC that move. The players he admires are getting moved out fast by the clubs progress, he's a softy and besides it's his money. Not Hughes's. It's not like it hasn't happened here before... Sidibe is a example of that. Sorry mumf.
Ah right so now you're telling us that Coates was responsible for the decision to give Wilko a pointless contract, not Hughes.
Ok then ...
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 18, 2014 0:21:02 GMT
So we've just given a 28 year old a new contract so that he can be FOURTH choice for a position in the team which is the only position in the team that he can play?
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense does it?
Paul, I know you are anxious to find a rational explanation for the Wilko extension, but you won't find one, because there isn't one. Of course there was one (cover for Cameron) up to the point we signed Bardlsey. And that is why the order of events matters. Which is where I came in.
I see, so you're going with the Peter Coates (rather than Mark Hughes) just gave Wilko a new contract because he felt sorry for him having to leave the club argument as well then?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 18, 2014 0:31:06 GMT
Paul, I know you are anxious to find a rational explanation for the Wilko extension, but you won't find one, because there isn't one. Of course there was one (cover for Cameron) up to the point we signed Bardlsey. And that is why the order of events matters. Which is where I came in. The thing you need to be anxious to find out is why has Shotton been overlooked and shunned by hughes? Why was Wilko so fastly signed yet there is no speak of Shotton's future or lack of one in the potteries.? Wilko has proven his worth and his loyalty is worth signing in and of itself in my opinion. I think that Bardsley surprised Stoke and it surprised the transfer team because they had figured to extend wilko as cover for cameron initially and maybe expect to spend on a better RB where as we got a freebie for a similar quality of RB.
In what way did Bardsley surprise Stoke?
We tried to sign him in the last January transfer window and we knew his contract was ending at Sunderland this summer?
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 18, 2014 0:32:57 GMT
Yes, because the comparison between Cameron and Bardsley is remotely similar to the skill divide between Crouch and Diouf... Will you be surprised to see Geoff or RB?Or are you logically not saying that he can't be our starter? Now who has the angst? To be honest Wilson hasn't played RB in a long time so' yeah not going down that road it's a waste of time and especially under hughes he hasn't. He can play there, but barring injury' he wont be moved sides. The only thing I'm guilty of is backing one of the better RBs in the league last season every week versus moronic comments made by people that are nonfactual and opinionated on this board. Factually and statistically there is this idea bardsley is a better defender, well by the league stats, personal stats, goals for and against and positions of both respective players teams at the end of the season. Cameron was better a little margin. It's the truth.
Wilson hasn't played left back under Hughes either has he? He's just as capable of being a third choice right back as he's capable of being a third choice left back - it's churlish so suggest otherwise.
You don't like it because it buggers up your argument but giving Wilko a new contract AND signing Bardsley doesn't make a whole lot of sense if Cameron is going to be a major feature at right back next season, I (unlike you) haven't got an awful lot invested in an opinion on Cameron but rather mine is based on clear cut logic.
I'm surprised that you're so clear cut in your opinion on Diouf over Crouch - how much of Diouf have you actually seen?
Firstly, it's childish to assume that signing players means others are being moved or never going to feature. That for same reason a manager can't buy a player for a rotation or for depth he knows that he won't more than likely not play much. It doesn't bugger the argument Paul, infact it strengthens it. Why? We saved money on a equal quality RB (actually I beg a lil' less of one but it's irrelevant) kept our bench stable with Wilko for Cup runs, and have more Cover. We didn't go buy an expensive RB from the continent or Prem and so far haven't done so yet leading us to believe that Cameron is transferring out or not going to be a major feature for Stoke now is it? It makes loads of sense actually. Remember when Cameron had a shit game versus Chelsea and Hughes only had Wilko? Now he has Bardsley or Wilko. If he goes with Bardsley with Cameron his #2, it could be the otherway with Wilko third. I don't have anything vested in Cameron except that to dismiss him like most on here including yourself isn't clear cut logic... I infact was the only one who said he had a future here when TP brought him in at RB. Most scoffed and said he'd never start for us ever yet here we are. Are you going down that route now? Like the amazing know it alls who said Arnie was a "Lazy git" or that "Assaidi has no pace" or better yet the other oatcake classic "Muni is a weak spainard." Ohh I've been clear cut alot and first to say I missed that or was wrong, ie Whelan. But to answer your question, I lived in Holland near the German border and have followed BR Monchengladbach for a long time, I have seen Diouf live enough times in Germany to know he is worth more to us than Crouch now, but that doesn't mean Crouch can't play a role here as a target-man. At that time I also saw Assaidi in Holland for Heerveenen and he was exceptional at times as he was here. So I wouldn't say I'm vested, I just go with my gut and it's usually right and served me well in betting.
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Post by stokemanusa on Jun 18, 2014 0:33:46 GMT
The thing you need to be anxious to find out is why has Shotton been overlooked and shunned by hughes? Why was Wilko so fastly signed yet there is no speak of Shotton's future or lack of one in the potteries.? Wilko has proven his worth and his loyalty is worth signing in and of itself in my opinion. I think that Bardsley surprised Stoke and it surprised the transfer team because they had figured to extend wilko as cover for cameron initially and maybe expect to spend on a better RB where as we got a freebie for a similar quality of RB.
In what way did Bardsley surprise Stoke?
We tried to sign him in the last January transfer window and we knew his contract was ending at Sunderland this summer?
They didn't think he would come running.
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Post by Gods on Jun 18, 2014 0:35:17 GMT
Paul, I know you are anxious to find a rational explanation for the Wilko extension, but you won't find one, because there isn't one. Of course there was one (cover for Cameron) up to the point we signed Bardlsey. And that is why the order of events matters. Which is where I came in.
I see, so you're going with the Peter Coates (rather than Mark Hughes) just gave Wilko a new contract because he felt sorry for him having to leave the club argument as well then?
errr...no
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