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Post by MadMarko10 on Jun 9, 2014 21:00:26 GMT
Darren "fucking" Bent? Have I woken up in 2009? Jesus fucking wept.. Yeah, Darren Fucking Bent. Form is temporary class is permanent, give him chances and he will score. i look forward to someone taking the chance & him making you look clueless I've woken up in 2009 then, thanks for confirming that.
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Post by stokiejoe on Jun 9, 2014 21:00:46 GMT
The only way we can hope to compete is to inch our way up into European competition and cup success. Easier said than done but that is where the money and fame is. We start from a point where sky pay us for the minimum games because they have to and we are regularly last on MOD. OK we can say we don't care but we should if we are to progress. With the support of the Coates family and a manager like Hughes it can be possible. Breaking into the top 4 or 5 is money , money and more money, so we have to earn as well as be given it. Don't think we are well placed geographically for support and realistically the City cannot support two teams.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 21:02:26 GMT
Despite a few bad buys in his first 2-3 seasons it's hard to argue that much was wasted as we consolidated our position. After that we spent the best part of £40m to get worse and of 14 new arrivals only 2-3 played regularly. I don't see how that wasn't a waste. Clearly the board agreed.
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Post by arnieforpresident on Jun 9, 2014 21:02:41 GMT
Pulis was also handed a boosted Big (for us at the time & big even compared to other Championship clubs) wage budget to make it happen.
Granted Pulis produced the goods but when you really look at his spending he had the luxury of paying over the odds for players and if they didn't fit in it was back to the drawing board with another fist full of cash well the said player rotted on the bench.
Peter Coates deserves enormous credit for stumping out all that cash, now that's proper support of the club.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 9, 2014 21:04:31 GMT
March, the club operated at a net loss during TP's time at the club. It also operated at a loss during the times of most of the previous managers but don't rewrite history to make it sound as if The club had more income than it spent during TP's time - unless, of course, you are accusing the Coates family of false accounting! If we had to sell the assets Forny the net worth plus TV money would outstrip the outlay wouldn't it? The short answer, March, is that I have no idea - and nor do you. What I do know, because I look at the annual report when it is published each year, is that the club has posted a loss for all years (bar one, I think) since the Coates family bought out the Icelanders and reappointed TP. That means that they have had to put in £millions each year (sometimes as loans and sometimes capitalised as shares) to keep the club afloat. If/when they do sell the club we will know if they have profited from the venture by virtue of any capital gains - and that will depend upon a willing buyer with deep enough pockets.
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Post by march4 on Jun 9, 2014 21:04:46 GMT
Pulis was also handed a boosted Big (for us at the time & big even compared to other Championship clubs) wage budget to make it happen. Granted Pulis produced the goods but when you really look at his spending he had the luxury of paying over the odds for players and if they didn't fit in it was back to the drawing board with another fist full of cash well the said player rotted on the bench. Peter Coates deserves enormous credit for stumping out all that cash, now that's proper support of the club. Uncle Peter does deserve huge credit, but TP also deserves credit for keeping us up with free transfers and loanees. The Icelanders then gave Bosklump £Ms to really throw away.
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Post by march4 on Jun 9, 2014 21:06:23 GMT
If we had to sell the assets Forny the net worth plus TV money would outstrip the outlay wouldn't it? The short answer, March, is that I have no idea - and nor do you. What I do know, because I look at the annual report when it is published each year, is that the club has posted a loss for all years (bar one, I think) since the Coates family bought our the Icelanders and reappointed TP. That means that they have had to put in £millions (sometimes as loans and sometimes capitalised as shares) to keep the club afloat. If/when they do sell the club we will know if they have profited from the venture by virtue of any capital gains - and that will depend upon a willing buyer with deep enough pockets. I don't think there is much doubt that the club is worth a hell of a lot more than when TP arrived with Icelandic ownership and the trapdoor to the 3rd Division beckoning.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 21:07:40 GMT
Amazed a thread like this still brings the moralising about Tony Pulis's time with us and ,whether it was good for us or not
Not really up for debate as far as I am concerned
All I'll say is - about 7 years ago I would have never believed we would ever return to the premier league, let alone be sitting comfortably half way up pushing higher (as we are right now). The fact we are IS in no small part due to Tony Pulis.
Like it or not this is a fact. To my mind he has achieved amazing things for us but the time to move on was recognised by both himself and the club. The whole thing was massively to our benefit (I for one will always be grateful for what Tony Pulis did for this club) and it amuses me that even now, you get right now '5 minute keyboard warriors' with a couple of hundred posts saying - Pulis was 'lucky' - laughable bollocks actually.
Then again, Tony Pulis tracked Sidewell too and wanted him at this club. Mark Hughes has signed him to strengthen our club and his judgement so far has been pretty good too - a lot like our previous manager in fact. The new mission being however to do it 'leaner' and with a bit more imagination and, to be not quite so profligate as our tone surely was at times.
So if both of em wanted him and, Hughes knows the man closely - its certainly alright by me
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Post by stokiejoe on Jun 9, 2014 21:07:54 GMT
Pulis is the past and debating what he did, didn't, should or shouldn't have done won't alter the past or where we are today. We are fortunate to have progressed from the legacy he created, whatever your view of that is. New season and we should be looking forwards to it not looking back at the past.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 9, 2014 21:09:59 GMT
The short answer, March, is that I have no idea - and nor do you. What I do know, because I look at the annual report when it is published each year, is that the club has posted a loss for all years (bar one, I think) since the Coates family bought our the Icelanders and reappointed TP. That means that they have had to put in £millions (sometimes as loans and sometimes capitalised as shares) to keep the club afloat. If/when they do sell the club we will know if they have profited from the venture by virtue of any capital gains - and that will depend upon a willing buyer with deep enough pockets. I don't think there is much doubt that the club is worth a hell of a lot more than when TP arrived with Icelandic ownership and the trapdoor to the 3rd Division beckoning. Of course the club is worth more than when the Coates family bought it back. But neither of us knows whether its increase in value is greater than the losses which the family have had to fund each year. And, of course, realising a capital gain means finding a buyer. My stockbroker never misses the chance to tell me that I have not made a real profit (or a loss) on my shares until I sell them.
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Post by werrington on Jun 9, 2014 21:11:17 GMT
Pulis was also handed a boosted Big (for us at the time & big even compared to other Championship clubs) wage budget to make it happen. Granted Pulis produced the goods but when you really look at his spending he had the luxury of paying over the odds for players and if they didn't fit in it was back to the drawing board with another fist full of cash well the said player rotted on the bench. Peter Coates deserves enormous credit for stumping out all that cash, now that's proper support of the club. Uncle Peter does deserve huge credit, but TP also deserves credit for keeping us up with free transfers and loanees. The Icelanders then gave Bosklump £Ms to really throw away. He didn't throw it away though did he ( Boskamp ) He had EIGHT players when he arrived and no defence at all as Hill was long term injured , Clarke Halls and Thomas had said they were leaving and wilkinson etc had been released Eleven away wins and above mid table finish says that even though he was a fool he did an excellent job under the circumstances Just a thought like
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Post by march4 on Jun 9, 2014 21:14:42 GMT
I don't think there is much doubt that the club is worth a hell of a lot more than when TP arrived with Icelandic ownership and the trapdoor to the 3rd Division beckoning. Of course the club is worth more than when the Coates family bought it back. But neither of us knows whether its increase in value is greater than the losses which the family have had to fund each year. And, of course, realising a capital gain means finding a buyer. My stockbroker never misses the chance to tell me that I have not made a real profit (or a loss) on my shares until I sell them. Fair point!
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Post by march4 on Jun 9, 2014 21:17:20 GMT
Uncle Peter does deserve huge credit, but TP also deserves credit for keeping us up with free transfers and loanees. The Icelanders then gave Bosklump £Ms to really throw away. He didn't throw it away though did he ( Boskamp ) He had EIGHT players when he arrived and no defence at all as Hill was long term injured , Clarke and Thomas had said they were leaving and wilkinson etc had been released Eleven away wins and above mid table finish says that even though he was a fool he did an excellent job under the circumstances Just a thought like How much did Bangoura alone cost? And TP had kept us up and taken us to the same position in the league with barely a penny to spend. If we want to look at wasting money then the Boskamp era stands alone in our history. Mama's comments about him in his autobiography are priceless.
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Post by Davef on Jun 9, 2014 21:21:22 GMT
Pulis was also handed a boosted Big (for us at the time & big even compared to other Championship clubs) wage budget to make it happen. Granted Pulis produced the goods but when you really look at his spending he had the luxury of paying over the odds for players and if they didn't fit in it was back to the drawing board with another fist full of cash well the said player rotted on the bench. Peter Coates deserves enormous credit for stumping out all that cash, now that's proper support of the club. Uncle Peter does deserve huge credit, but TP also deserves credit for keeping us up with free transfers and loanees. The Icelanders then gave Bosklump £Ms to really throw away. Millions? Try less than one and a half million and that doesn't include the £250,000 the club had committed on Peter Sweeney. Bangoura was the big signing but the rest were all free transfers with the exception of Luke Chadwick and Carl Hoefkens. We got £750,000 of it back when we sold Hoefkens to West Brom.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 21:21:37 GMT
Boskamp was a wanker.
Just a thought like.
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Post by werrington on Jun 9, 2014 21:22:12 GMT
He didn't throw it away though did he ( Boskamp ) He had EIGHT players when he arrived and no defence at all as Hill was long term injured , Clarke and Thomas had said they were leaving and wilkinson etc had been released Eleven away wins and above mid table finish says that even though he was a fool he did an excellent job under the circumstances Just a thought like How much did Bangoura alone cost? And TP had kept us up and taken us to the same position in the league with barely a penny to spend. If we want to look at wasting money then the Boskamp era stands alone in our history. Mama's comments about him in his autobiography are priceless. Bangoura was an excellent signing ( football wise ) it's just that he was an absolute bell end which was unforeseen by anybody at the club The year before was that godforsaken binary season so please don't compare the two
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Post by steakandchips on Jun 9, 2014 21:24:05 GMT
Does every thread on here have to turn into a PHW v Rimmers slanging match? He's gone, he did amazingly to get us where we are now, but he's gone, people need to move on.
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Post by gothicstokelover on Jun 9, 2014 21:24:09 GMT
On the match last season 4-1 to us against Fulham watching on the telly before kick it was nice to see him talking to his team mates on ways to try get around us, and from what I could pick up made sense but his team mates obviously wasn't upto scratch
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Post by Davef on Jun 9, 2014 21:24:53 GMT
And the club recouped virtually all the money Boskamp spent by selling Ben Foster, John Halls and Clive Clarke.
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Post by march4 on Jun 9, 2014 21:27:02 GMT
Uncle Peter does deserve huge credit, but TP also deserves credit for keeping us up with free transfers and loanees. The Icelanders then gave Bosklump £Ms to really throw away. Millions? Try less than one and a half million and that doesn't include the £250,000 the club had committed on Peter Sweeney. Bangoura was the big signing but the rest were all free transfers with the exception of Luke Chadwick and Carl Hoefkens. We got £750,000 of it back when we sold Hoefkens to West Brom. More than a £1M is £Ms Dave TP took us from the bottom of the table to mid-table security for pennies. It is a shame Uncle Peter didn't take over 12 months earlier so that TP hadn't left. We would have gone up 12 months earlier. Did TP bring Brammer and Dubes to the club? Mama claims the first thing TP did when he returned was get rid of them both to bring unity to the dressing room. Did we really get £750,000 for Hoefkens, blimey. Whoever managed to sell him for that amount must be a genius
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Post by march4 on Jun 9, 2014 21:28:20 GMT
How much did Bangoura alone cost? And TP had kept us up and taken us to the same position in the league with barely a penny to spend. If we want to look at wasting money then the Boskamp era stands alone in our history. Mama's comments about him in his autobiography are priceless. Bangoura was an excellent signing ( football wise ) it's just that he was an absolute bell end which was unforeseen by anybody at the club The year before was that godforsaken binary season so please don't compare the two What was wrong with the binary season? The most efficient football know to mankind Boskamp obviously didn't check Bangoura's DNA
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2014 21:29:32 GMT
Millions? Try less than one and a half million and that doesn't include the £250,000 the club had committed on Peter Sweeney. Bangoura was the big signing but the rest were all free transfers with the exception of Luke Chadwick and Carl Hoefkens. We got £750,000 of it back when we sold Hoefkens to West Brom. More than a £1M is £Ms Dave TP took us from the bottom of the table to mid-table security for pennies. It is a shame Uncle Peter didn't take over 12 months earlier so that TP hadn't left. We would have gone up 12 months earlier. Did TP bring Brammer and Dubes to the club? Mama claims the first thing TP did when he returned was get rid of them both to bring unity to the dressing room. Did we really get £750,000 for Hoefkens, blimey. Whoever managed to sell him for that amount must be a genius It was actually Brammer and Kevin Harper, the latter a "little un' but a good un' " signed by you know who...
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Post by march4 on Jun 9, 2014 21:33:04 GMT
More than a £1M is £Ms Dave TP took us from the bottom of the table to mid-table security for pennies. It is a shame Uncle Peter didn't take over 12 months earlier so that TP hadn't left. We would have gone up 12 months earlier. Did TP bring Brammer and Dubes to the club? Mama claims the first thing TP did when he returned was get rid of them both to bring unity to the dressing room. Did we really get £750,000 for Hoefkens, blimey. Whoever managed to sell him for that amount must be a genius It was actually Brammer and Kevin Harper, the latter a "little un' but a good un' " signed by you know who... Dubes was the worst offender according to Mama wasn't he, followed by Brammer and Harper. Mama mentions an incident with Pato. He claims he mentioned this to TP and TP said he would sort it out.
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Post by arnieforpresident on Jun 9, 2014 21:33:26 GMT
What I will say for Pulis despite him spunking a shit load of cash is that teams couldn't deal with our direct Physical style & it's a massive part of why we stayed in the League. But as we all know he could of produced that style with players of a lot less cost as he proved time & time again as his signings often fell out of favour or fell out with him because they couldn't adapt to it, so why buy these supposedly better technically better players at a Premium when he could of done it with lesser players. That to me means he wasted a lot of money.
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Post by march4 on Jun 9, 2014 21:37:15 GMT
What I will say for Pulis despite him spunking a shit load of cash is that teams couldn't deal with our direct Physical style & it's a massive part of why we stayed in the League. But as we all know he could of produced that style with players of a lot less cost as he proved time & time again as his signings often fell out of favour or fell out with him because they couldn't adapt to it, so why buy these supposedly better technically better players at a Premium when he could of done it with lesser players. That to me means he wasted a lot of money. TP made some dreadful signings and he made some great signings. However the record books will show that he took us from the verge of the 3rd Division to European football and our first FA Cup Final. That will be his place in our history.
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Post by jarhead on Jun 9, 2014 21:39:24 GMT
Great signing.
Experienced solid centre mid with an eye for goal.
Good work lads now fuck Palacios off to Palace to that fraudster!
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Post by CalgaryPotter on Jun 9, 2014 21:50:19 GMT
The only way we can hope to compete is to inch our way up into European competition and cup success. Easier said than done but that is where the money and fame is. We start from a point where sky pay us for the minimum games because they have to and we are regularly last on MOD. OK we can say we don't care but we should if we are to progress. With the support of the Coates family and a manager like Hughes it can be possible. Breaking into the top 4 or 5 is money , money and more money, so we have to earn as well as be given it. Don't think we are well placed geographically for support and realistically the City cannot support two teams. Sorry Joe but your statement is bollocks!! The city doesn't have to support two teams, there is us and then there is that shower of shit up the road. Hardly a team are they?
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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 9, 2014 22:22:45 GMT
It requires a radical change to the financial set up of the game at the very top - transfer fee caps, wage caps, shared gate receipts, maximum ticket price and changes to the agent system. Sadly, the game is ruled by people whose interests are entirely contrary to this sort of radical change, so it'll never happen. On the topic of Steve Sidwell, however, I'm quite happy that he's signed. If it is a level playing field the likes of Utd, Chelsea will still win it. The best players will still want to play for the more glamorous teams. Another team might win it the odd year but it wouldn't work and quite frankly it would be boring as hell. Maybe, maybe not. It would be better than what we have now, though.
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Post by boothenesque on Jun 9, 2014 22:28:05 GMT
If it is a level playing field the likes of Utd, Chelsea will still win it. The best players will still want to play for the more glamorous teams. Another team might win it the odd year but it wouldn't work and quite frankly it would be boring as hell. Maybe, maybe not. It would be better than what we have now, though. We should buy Vale and close them down. They're probably only worth a tenner if that and it would be a blessed release for them. It would seem kind to put them out of their misery.
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Post by Olgrligm on Jun 9, 2014 22:30:01 GMT
How much did Bangoura alone cost? And TP had kept us up and taken us to the same position in the league with barely a penny to spend. If we want to look at wasting money then the Boskamp era stands alone in our history. Mama's comments about him in his autobiography are priceless. Bangoura was an excellent signing ( football wise ) it's just that he was an absolute bell end which was unforeseen by anybody at the club The year before was that godforsaken binary season so please don't compare the two There were signs about Bangoura before he signed, weren't there? I think there was a video on here when he was on his way that showed him banging in goals for his club (Liege) and the supporters just booing him as he put them away. I think he had gone AWOL on them a few times and they were sick of him. A massive shame, because he could have been a great player. That spell when he first signed was brilliant.
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