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Post by nsd on Apr 20, 2014 16:51:02 GMT
I didn't really think about the consequences of confrontation if I'm honest, he crossed the line massively and I said something. I'm a lady, by the way, for those saying 'he'
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 16:51:28 GMT
Dunno,but if someone is doing or saying something that is affecting you to the point where you feel the need to act then surely the time to do this is there and then? The OP has stated now though that he did do something at the time and did have words with the offender which in my opinion should be enough now. I know the person shouting the abuse was out of order and we could well do without that kind of shit coming from our own fans but something doesn't quite sit right with me about him being reported to the authorities. The bloke shouting the racist abuse broke the bloody law. Fair enough to speak to him at the time - if the Op felt safe to do so. But unless he apologises and stops immediately why on earth shouldn't he be reported to the authorities? Do Stokie racists have some special dispensation to escape without the law getting involved? Or is it just when the abuse relates to non Stoke players that there is some special rule to be applied? I fail to see where the difference is if he apologises and shuts up Lakeland? I know that Racist abuse is against the law and isn't what any of us want to hear, but if I heard it at the match my thoughts wouldn't be about reporting it to the authorities,we are talking about a fellow Stoke fan here and reporting him to the police,it's not for me,that's all I'm saying.
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Post by nsd on Apr 20, 2014 16:53:27 GMT
Being a fellow Stoke fan makes it worse imo, I don't want to be associated with that. There was also no apology and he was still referring to 'black bastards' afterwards.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 16:54:12 GMT
I'm not advocating fisticuffs though Rob. I'm assuming that yesterday's incident didn't come to blows and the OP has stated that he said something to the perpetrator which in my opinion is enough. Reporting the incident probably will have more impact but it's not my style to go that extra yard to get the offender banned or dragged through the courts for things he has said at a football match however offensive people may have found it. I just think it's the easiest thing in the world not to use racist language Sid and anyone doing it can't have too many complaints about what happens to them. Anyone who does turn it into a confrontation risks things turning nasty, which even if you can handle yourself might put innocent people at risk of getting hurt and will generally only result in negative consequences for all involved. Just my opinion like. I agree to a certain extent Rob and anyone using that kind of Racist language is a bit of a dickhead,but reporting a fellow Stoke fan to the authorities for it isn't something I'd be comfortable with.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 16:54:39 GMT
The bloke shouting the racist abuse broke the bloody law. Fair enough to speak to him at the time - if the Op felt safe to do so. But unless he apologises and stops immediately why on earth shouldn't he be reported to the authorities? Do Stokie racists have some special dispensation to escape without the law getting involved? Or is it just when the abuse relates to non Stoke players that there is some special rule to be applied? I fail to see where the difference is if he apologises and shuts up Lakeland? I know that Racist abuse is against the law and isn't what any of us want to hear, but if I heard it at the match my thoughts wouldn't be about reporting it to the authorities,we are talking about a fellow Stoke fan here and reporting him to the police,it's not for me,that's all I'm saying. Some fellow Stoke fans are dicks though.
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Post by slogger on Apr 20, 2014 17:01:58 GMT
Guys Saha didn't even hear it or was offended by it or traumatised by it so it's not even a offence i. You can say what ever you wish as long as it doesn't offend the party involved . If Saha or some one of the same race had heard it and took offence then there would be a issue
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 17:03:28 GMT
Being a fellow Stoke fan makes it worse imo, I don't want to be associated with that. There was also no apology and he was still referring to 'black bastards' afterwards. Out of interest Newschool,what kind of response were you met with when you confronted him about it? I'm surprised that nobody else said anything to him to be honest. Apologies for assuming you were a bloke an all
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Post by nsd on Apr 20, 2014 17:08:40 GMT
Being a fellow Stoke fan makes it worse imo, I don't want to be associated with that. There was also no apology and he was still referring to 'black bastards' afterwards. Out of interest Newschool,what kind of response were you met with when you confronted him about it? I'm surprised that nobody else said anything to him to be honest. Apologies for assuming you were a bloke an all Gave me a look like it was me who was out of order but didn't say anything, I turned back round and got on with watching the game. I was also quite surprised nobody else said anything. Though admittedly it did take me quite a while as I'm generally not a confrontational person.
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Post by march4 on Apr 20, 2014 17:16:20 GMT
Guys Saha didn't even hear it or was offended by it or traumatised by it so it's not even a offence i. You can say what ever you wish as long as it doesn't offend the party involved . If Saha or some one of the same race had heard it and took offence then there would be a issue If you fire a gun at someone and miss, is it an offence, even if the person didn't notice the shot?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 20, 2014 17:19:29 GMT
The bloke shouting the racist abuse broke the bloody law. Fair enough to speak to him at the time - if the Op felt safe to do so. But unless he apologises and stops immediately why on earth shouldn't he be reported to the authorities? Do Stokie racists have some special dispensation to escape without the law getting involved? Or is it just when the abuse relates to non Stoke players that there is some special rule to be applied? I fail to see where the difference is if he apologises and shuts up Lakeland? I know that Racist abuse is against the law and isn't what any of us want to hear, but if I heard it at the match my thoughts wouldn't be about reporting it to the authorities,we are talking about a fellow Stoke fan here and reporting him to the police,it's not for me,that's all I'm saying. As I said in my post (or at least I suggested it) the fact that he is a Stoke fan doesn't come into it. If you saw a fan mug an old lady would you refuse to report and identify the culprit to the Police because he (or she) was a Stoke fan?
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Post by slogger on Apr 20, 2014 17:21:33 GMT
That's different if your watching tv in your living room and call someone a black cunt do you expect the police kick in your door of course not . If the guy was a racist that's his choice it's not a crime to be racist . But it is a crime if you I inflict them views on a person and cause him distress . In this case the person didn't even hear him or any one of the same race who took offence
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Post by slogger on Apr 20, 2014 17:24:24 GMT
Guys Saha didn't even hear it or was offended by it or traumatised by it so it's not even a offence i. You can say what ever you wish as long as it doesn't offend the party involved . If Saha or some one of the same race had heard it and took offence then there would be a issue If you fire a gun at someone and miss, is it an offence, even if the person didn't notice the shot? been racist isn't a crime . It's only a crime if someone takes offence by your views of there race
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 20, 2014 17:25:05 GMT
That's different if your watching tv in your living room and call someone a black cunt do you expect the police kick in your door of course not . If the guy was a racist that's his choice it's not a crime to be racist . But it is a crime if you I inflict them views on a person and cause him distress . In this case the person didn't even hear him or any one of the same race who took offence I take it law isn't your specialist subject? It is a crime to shout racist abuse in public. Whether the person you are directing it at can hear it is irrelevant. By the way, how do you know that no black person could hear the abuse shouted at Zaha? Were you there? Was it you shouting the abuse?
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Post by march4 on Apr 20, 2014 17:27:46 GMT
If you fire a gun at someone and miss, is it an offence, even if the person didn't notice the shot? been racist isn't a crime . It's only a crime if someone takes offence by your views of there race It is a criminal offence to shout something racist in public.
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 20, 2014 17:29:12 GMT
Guys Saha didn't even hear it or was offended by it or traumatised by it so it's not even a offence i. You can say what ever you wish as long as it doesn't offend the party involved . If Saha or some one of the same race had heard it and took offence then there would be a issue If you fire a gun at someone and miss, is it an offence, even if the person didn't notice the shot? What a very strange comparison, completely OTT, someone calling you names is comparable with someone trying to shoot you
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Post by crownmeking on Apr 20, 2014 17:29:51 GMT
That's different if your watching tv in your living room and call someone a black cunt do you expect the police kick in your door of course not . If the guy was a racist that's his choice it's not a crime to be racist . But it is a crime if you I inflict them views on a person and cause him distress . In this case the person didn't even hear him or any one of the same race who took offence Don't start acting like you know the law, when you clearly don't you ignorant lump. Regardless of the fact that the intended victim heard the racial abuse or not, it is still a criminal offence to insight racial hatred.
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Post by march4 on Apr 20, 2014 17:30:50 GMT
If you fire a gun at someone and miss, is it an offence, even if the person didn't notice the shot? What a very strange comparison, completely OTT, someone calling you names is comparable with someone trying to shoot you The point of law is the same. The offence is in the action. Sorry if I offended anyone.
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Post by slogger on Apr 20, 2014 17:33:00 GMT
That's different if your watching tv in your living room and call someone a black cunt do you expect the police kick in your door of course not . If the guy was a racist that's his choice it's not a crime to be racist . But it is a crime if you I inflict them views on a person and cause him distress . In this case the person didn't even hear him or any one of the same race who took offence I take it law isn't your specialist subject? It is a crime to shout racist abuse in public. Whether the person you are directing it at can hear it is irrelevant. By the way, how do you know that no black person could hear the abuse shouted at Zaha? Were you there? Was it you shouting the abuse? it don't matter if I was there or if I wasn't in prity sure u wasn't so my views are as valid as your and the law isn't your strong point as fbeen racist isn't a crime he can say or call what ever he wants unless someone take offence and if someone shouts racist comments in the street it's. Public order act it wouldn't be a racist abuse act unless some of that race took offence that caused him distress
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 20, 2014 17:34:18 GMT
What a very strange comparison, completely OTT, someone calling you names is comparable with someone trying to shoot you The point of law is the same. The offence is in the action. Sorry if I offended anyone. Racist name calling as in for example black bastard/white bastard/yellow bastard etc, is in a point of law the same as attempted murder ?, no wonder this country is totally fucked up
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Post by adi on Apr 20, 2014 17:35:03 GMT
Who do I get in touch with at the club about racist/homophobic abuse? There was a man behind me who had some very choice words about Zaha. What a dick. I bet he didn't abuse Nzonzi or Walters did he?
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Post by slogger on Apr 20, 2014 17:35:38 GMT
What a very strange comparison, completely OTT, someone calling you names is comparable with someone trying to shoot you The point of law is the same. The offence is in the action. Sorry if I offended anyone. the law isn't the same some shouting his views isn't the same as trying take a life and we live in a free country where you can think or believe as you wish as long as it caused someone distress as in this case it didn't only a person who over heard he views
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Post by crownmeking on Apr 20, 2014 17:36:00 GMT
I take it law isn't your specialist subject? It is a crime to shout racist abuse in public. Whether the person you are directing it at can hear it is irrelevant. By the way, how do you know that no black person could hear the abuse shouted at Zaha? Were you there? Was it you shouting the abuse? it don't matter if I was there or if I wasn't in prity sure u wasn't so my views are as valid as your and the law isn't your strong point as fbeen racist isn't a crime he can say or call what ever he wants unless someone take offence and if someone shouts racist comments in the street it's. Public order act it wouldn't be a racist abuse act unless some of that race took offence that caused him distress Try reading the Race Relations Act 1976. The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. This offence refers to: deliberately provoking hatred of a racial group distributing racist material to the public making inflammatory public speeches creating racist websites on the Internet inciting inflammatory rumours about an individual or an ethnic group, for the purpose of spreading racial discontent.
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 20, 2014 17:36:51 GMT
Who do I get in touch with at the club about racist/homophobic abuse? There was a man behind me who had some very choice words about Zaha. What a dick. I bet he didn't abuse Nzonzi or Walters did he? Is Nzonzi black he looks more like a bark brown and Walters is a bit orange like all scousers.
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Post by slogger on Apr 20, 2014 17:37:55 GMT
it don't matter if I was there or if I wasn't in prity sure u wasn't so my views are as valid as your and the law isn't your strong point as fbeen racist isn't a crime he can say or call what ever he wants unless someone take offence and if someone shouts racist comments in the street it's. Public order act it wouldn't be a racist abuse act unless some of that race took offence that caused him distress Try reading the Race Relations Act 1976. The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. This offence refers to: deliberately provoking hatred of a racial group distributing racist material to the public making inflammatory public speeches creating racist websites on the Internet inciting inflammatory rumours about an individual or an ethnic group, for the purpose of spreading racial discontent. correct and Saha didn't hear it so nothing to worry about
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 20, 2014 17:38:56 GMT
Try reading the Race Relations Act 1976. The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. This offence refers to: deliberately provoking hatred of a racial group distributing racist material to the public making inflammatory public speeches creating racist websites on the Internet inciting inflammatory rumours about an individual or an ethnic group, for the purpose of spreading racial discontent. correct and Saha didn't hear it so nothing to worry about Pretty much the case I would have thought.
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Post by crownmeking on Apr 20, 2014 17:44:33 GMT
Try reading the Race Relations Act 1976. The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. This offence refers to: deliberately provoking hatred of a racial group distributing racist material to the public making inflammatory public speeches creating racist websites on the Internet inciting inflammatory rumours about an individual or an ethnic group, for the purpose of spreading racial discontent. correct and Saha didn't hear it so nothing to worry about Allow me to educate you; The offence is not only committed if the intended victim hears it. I will quote directly from law for you, so that you have no further doubt.
Use of words or behaviour or display of written material .
(1)
A person who uses threatening words or behaviour, or displays any written material which is threatening, is guilty of an offence if he intends thereby to stir up religious hatred. .
(2)
An offence under this section may be committed in a public or a private place, except that no offence is committed where the words or behaviour are used, or the written material is displayed, by a person inside a dwelling and are not heard or seen except by other persons in that or another dwelling. .
(3)
A constable may arrest without warrant anyone he reasonably suspects is committing an offence under this section.
CLASS DISMISSED.
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Post by crownmeking on Apr 20, 2014 17:45:25 GMT
correct and Saha didn't hear it so nothing to worry about Pretty much the case I would have thought. Well I assure you that you 'thought' wrong.
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Post by stokecity4eva on Apr 20, 2014 17:45:48 GMT
Try reading the Race Relations Act 1976. The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994. This offence refers to: deliberately provoking hatred of a racial group distributing racist material to the public making inflammatory public speeches creating racist websites on the Internet inciting inflammatory rumours about an individual or an ethnic group, for the purpose of spreading racial discontent. correct and Saha didn't hear it so nothing to worry about First things first its Zaha not Saha he retired last year. Secondly if you went out tonight in Hanley and spouted racist abuse and directed it towards someone and someone reported it you could be arrested the law states that ANY member of the public can be offended by racist abuse and the person the abuse is aimed at does not have to report the offence to the police for you to be arrested
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Post by slogger on Apr 20, 2014 17:52:48 GMT
correct and Saha didn't hear it so nothing to worry about First things first its Zaha not Saha he retired last year. Secondly if you went out tonight in Hanley and spouted racist abuse and directed it towards someone and someone reported it you could be arrested the law states that ANY member of the public can be offended by racist abuse and the person the abuse is aimed at does not have to report the offence to the police for you to be arrested I work the doors up Hanley and get called everything and so do my fello black mates who work the doors with me I have yet to see anyone arrested for calling me a big white steroid using cunt or my mate black cunt when we toss them out the doors
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Post by MadMarko10 on Apr 20, 2014 17:54:17 GMT
That's different if your watching tv in your living room and call someone a black cunt do you expect the police kick in your door of course not . If the guy was a racist that's his choice it's not a crime to be racist . But it is a crime if you I inflict them views on a person and cause him distress . In this case the person didn't even hear him or any one of the same race who took offence Don't start acting like you know the law, when you clearly don't you ignorant lump. Regardless of the fact that the intended victim heard the racial abuse or not, it is still a criminal offence to insight racial hatred. "ignorant lump"
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