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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 17:54:45 GMT
I fail to see where the difference is if he apologises and shuts up Lakeland? I know that Racist abuse is against the law and isn't what any of us want to hear, but if I heard it at the match my thoughts wouldn't be about reporting it to the authorities,we are talking about a fellow Stoke fan here and reporting him to the police,it's not for me,that's all I'm saying. As I said in my post (or at least I suggested it) the fact that he is a Stoke fan doesn't come into it. If you saw a fan mug an old lady would you refuse to report and identify the culprit to the Police because he (or she) was a Stoke fan? In my opinion shouting racist remarks at a football match and mugging an old lady in the street are two totally different crimes and you can't use the mugging example as a comparison. Obviously if I saw someone mugging anyone I would report it,although I'd struggle to know I he was a Stoke fan or not,unless of course he was wearing his colours whilst doing it If someone was doing something at a football match that I was seriously offended by then I would tell them to shut the fuck up and take it from there depending on the circumstances,now don't get me wrong I'm not the confrontational type at all but it have a threshold like everyone and if that was crossed then that's what I would do. I appreciate everyone is different and I find racist abuse at the level that Newschool was subjected to absolutely disgusting but reporting the offender to the authorities isn't something I would do personally,that's the only point I was trying to make.
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Post by stokecity4eva on Apr 20, 2014 17:58:12 GMT
First things first its Zaha not Saha he retired last year. Secondly if you went out tonight in Hanley and spouted racist abuse and directed it towards someone and someone reported it you could be arrested the law states that ANY member of the public can be offended by racist abuse and the person the abuse is aimed at does not have to report the offence to the police for you to be arrested I work the doors up Hanley and get called everything and so do my fello black mates who work the doors with me I have yet to see anyone arrested for calling me a big white steroid using cunt or my mate black when we toss them out the doors I'm not doubting what you say all im saying is that the law is the law Zaha does not have to of heard it for the matter to be dealt with any member of the public who has heard it said and was harassed alarmed or distressed by it can report the matter to the police and they are classed as the victims. So tonight if your black mates get called anything and you hear it and your offended you can report it and the person 'should' get locked up and you would be the victim.
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Post by manchesterpotter on Apr 20, 2014 17:59:46 GMT
Why does it have to be just the victims of abuse that find it offensive? I'm a heterosexual, white male with no religious beliefs, but the ignorant scum that are intolerant of different races, religions and sexualities offend me.
I don't want to be associated with anyone that has such a narrow-minded mentality, regardless of what football team they support. Fair play to the OP for having the balls to say something to the prick and wanting to follow it up with further action.
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Post by f1rew0rks on Apr 20, 2014 17:59:51 GMT
I was sitting near isle 122 yesterday and some guy walked up the isle looked as if he was in an argument and looked towards the Cardiff fans and said "black bastard" ... I must be honest, I was a little surprised but not particularly offended as I didnt know if this was a personal argument he was having with one particular person. Still wrong I know, but without knowing the full story I couldnt judge. Maybe he was being racially provoked? Maybe he was just an ignorant ass?
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Post by MadMarko10 on Apr 20, 2014 18:01:17 GMT
"ignorant lump" I don't act like a no the law just all get a fucking grip and man up stop hiding behind what you think is right or wrong and stand up for what you believe . If he bothers you that much then be a man confront him if you don't have the bollocks to do that then your not that upset by what he said And shut the fuck up You truly are a hilarious oaf What will you do if I don't "shut the fuck up"? Crush my head like an empty beer can with those drugged up trunks you call arms? Laughable
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Apr 20, 2014 18:02:03 GMT
As I said in my post (or at least I suggested it) the fact that he is a Stoke fan doesn't come into it. If you saw a fan mug an old lady would you refuse to report and identify the culprit to the Police because he (or she) was a Stoke fan? In my opinion shouting racist remarks at a football match and mugging an old lady in the street are two totally different crimes and you can't use the mugging example as a comparison. Obviously if I saw someone mugging anyone I would report it,although I'd struggle to know I he was a Stoke fan or not,unless of course he was wearing his colours whilst doing it If someone was doing something at a football match that I was seriously offended by then I would tell them to shut the fuck up and take it from there depending on the circumstances,now don't get me wrong I'm not the confrontational type at all but it have a threshold like everyone and if that was crossed then that's what I would do. I appreciate everyone is different and I find racist abuse at the level that Newschool was subjected to absolutely disgusting but reporting the offender to the authorities isn't something I would do personally,that's the only point I was trying to make. As it happens, a few years back there was a bloke behind me at a cup match abusing Salif Diao- oops it was Mama Sidibe. He was worse for drink and I turned round and told him to shut up. I also told his mate (who was sober and embarrassed) that if his mate didn't shut up or leave the stand, I would inform a steward. The sober lad dragged his mate down to the concourse and they didn't come back. As it happens he was so drunk I never felt worried about confronting him. If I had been worried, I'd have simply gone down to the entrance to the block and told the stewards to deal with it. I'd have no worries or guilt trip about asking for a racist abuser to be removed - and I'd be ok to give evidence in the event of prosecution.
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Post by stokecity4eva on Apr 20, 2014 18:04:07 GMT
"ignorant lump" I don't act like a no the law just all get a fucking grip and man up stop hiding behind what you think is right or wrong and stand up for what you believe . If he bothers you that much then be a man confront him if you don't have the bollocks to do that then your not that upset by what he said And shut the fuck up The original poster has already said she is a woman should she have to 'man' up to him? He could be 6'6 built like you are and she could be 5'0 6 stone wet through he may of turned violent on her had she of said something. She didnt know how the bloke was going to react did she. Shes doing the right thing by reporting it, saying that she probably should of reported it to a steward at the time or the police at the ground.
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Post by nsd on Apr 20, 2014 18:05:51 GMT
"ignorant lump" I don't act like a no the law just all get a fucking grip and man up stop hiding behind what you think is right or wrong and stand up for what you believe . If he bothers you that much then be a man confront him if you don't have the bollocks to do that then your not that upset by what he said And shut the fuck up Despite being a woman and generally trying to avoid confrontation, I did manage to conjure a pair of bollocks and be a man for a moment. I want to report it to the club(s) because it's not something that has any place anywhere, and I don't want myself (and by extension all Stoke fans and the club itself) to be associated with that kind of vile behaviour. I don't understand what you think 'being a man' about it would achieve without further action.
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Post by slogger on Apr 20, 2014 18:05:57 GMT
Why does it have to be just the victims of abuse that find it offensive? I'm a heterosexual, white male with no religious beliefs, but the ignorant scum that are intolerant of different races, religions and sexualities offend me. I don't want to be associated with anyone that has such a narrow-minded mentality, regardless of what football team they support. Fair play to the OP for having the balls to say something to the prick and wanting to follow it up with further action. I agree with you if the guy upset him by what he was saying about Saha then confront him by all means . Me personally it wouldn't of bothered me as long as I wasn't associated with him . And if he reported him that's his choice . Nothing will be done tho . And if things like that upset him to that existent I wouldn't like live in his world
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Post by nsd on Apr 20, 2014 18:06:43 GMT
I don't act like a no the law just all get a fucking grip and man up stop hiding behind what you think is right or wrong and stand up for what you believe . If he bothers you that much then be a man confront him if you don't have the bollocks to do that then your not that upset by what he said And shut the fuck up The original poster has already said she is a woman should she have to 'man' up to him? He could be 6'6 built like you are and she could be 5'0 6 stone wet through he may of turned violent on her had she of said something. She didnt know how the bloke was going to react did she. Shes doing the right thing by reporting it, saying that she probably should of reported it to a steward at the time or the police at the ground. I probably should've reported it at the match yes, that's an oversight on my part.
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Post by crownmeking on Apr 20, 2014 18:07:55 GMT
"ignorant lump" I don't act like a no the law just all get a fucking grip and man up stop hiding behind what you think is right or wrong and stand up for what you believe . If he bothers you that much then be a man confront him if you don't have the bollocks to do that then your not that upset by what he said And shut the fuck up Yes you did act like you know the law. You tried telling us that so long as "Saha" didn't hear it, there was no problem as it wasn't an offence - You have now been schooled by several intelligent people on this board that it is indeed an offence, regardless of the fact that the intended victim heard it or not;
If someone used racist abuse in my ear shot at the football, I wouldn't have a problem confronting them normally, I can handle myself - But I always have my lad with me, so clearly getting involved in a possible confrontation while he is with me, is a complete 'no'. My point being, confronting someone at the time is not always an available option.
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Post by slogger on Apr 20, 2014 18:08:23 GMT
I don't act like a no the law just all get a fucking grip and man up stop hiding behind what you think is right or wrong and stand up for what you believe . If he bothers you that much then be a man confront him if you don't have the bollocks to do that then your not that upset by what he said And shut the fuck up Despite being a woman and generally trying to avoid confrontation, I did manage to conjure a pair of bollocks and be a man for a moment. I want to report it to the club(s) because it's not something that has any place anywhere, and I don't want myself (and by extension all Stoke fans and the club itself) to be associated with that kind of vile behaviour. I don't understand what you think 'being a man' about it would achieve without further action. nothing will happen . Like he is going admit it he could say it was you saying it !! Abuse of all sorts of things go on at football imagine if the ref complained about the shit he got
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2014 18:09:10 GMT
In my opinion shouting racist remarks at a football match and mugging an old lady in the street are two totally different crimes and you can't use the mugging example as a comparison. Obviously if I saw someone mugging anyone I would report it,although I'd struggle to know I he was a Stoke fan or not,unless of course he was wearing his colours whilst doing it If someone was doing something at a football match that I was seriously offended by then I would tell them to shut the fuck up and take it from there depending on the circumstances,now don't get me wrong I'm not the confrontational type at all but it have a threshold like everyone and if that was crossed then that's what I would do. I appreciate everyone is different and I find racist abuse at the level that Newschool was subjected to absolutely disgusting but reporting the offender to the authorities isn't something I would do personally,that's the only point I was trying to make. As it happens, a few years back there was a bloke behind me at a cup match abusing Salif Diao- oops it was Mama Sidibe. He was worse for drink and I turned round and told him to shut up. I also told his mate (who was sober and embarrassed) that if his mate didn't shut up or leave the stand, I would inform a steward. The sober lad dragged his mate down to the concourse and they didn't come back. As it happens he was so drunk I never felt worried about confronting him. If I had been worried, I'd have simply gone down to the entrance to the block and told the stewards to deal with it. I'd have no worries of guilt trip about asking for a racist abuser to be removed - and I'd be ok to give evidence in the event of prosecution. And that is your prerogative mate and you are perfectly entitled to act upon circumstances like that exactly how you wish. For me,I wouldn't be comfortable giving evidence against a fellow Stoke fan for shouting racist words at somebody regardless of how much a prick he was being at the time.
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Post by nsd on Apr 20, 2014 18:10:06 GMT
Despite being a woman and generally trying to avoid confrontation, I did manage to conjure a pair of bollocks and be a man for a moment. I want to report it to the club(s) because it's not something that has any place anywhere, and I don't want myself (and by extension all Stoke fans and the club itself) to be associated with that kind of vile behaviour. I don't understand what you think 'being a man' about it would achieve without further action. nothing will happen . Like he is going admit it he could say it was you saying it !! Abuse of all sorts of things go on at football imagine if the ref complained about the shit he got The 'nothing will happen' mentality is the reason shit like this still goes on at football matches.
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Post by crownmeking on Apr 20, 2014 18:12:29 GMT
Why does it have to be just the victims of abuse that find it offensive? I'm a heterosexual, white male with no religious beliefs, but the ignorant scum that are intolerant of different races, religions and sexualities offend me. I don't want to be associated with anyone that has such a narrow-minded mentality, regardless of what football team they support. Fair play to the OP for having the balls to say something to the prick and wanting to follow it up with further action. I agree with you if the guy upset him by what he was saying about Saha then confront him by all means . Me personally it wouldn't of bothered me as long as I wasn't associated with him . And if he reported him that's his choice . Nothing will be done tho . And if things like that upset him to that existent I wouldn't like live in his world You have already been corrected on your nonsense spelling of Zaha you ignoramus.
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Post by slogger on Apr 20, 2014 18:13:05 GMT
As it happens, a few years back there was a bloke behind me at a cup match abusing Salif Diao- oops it was Mama Sidibe. He was worse for drink and I turned round and told him to shut up. I also told his mate (who was sober and embarrassed) that if his mate didn't shut up or leave the stand, I would inform a steward. The sober lad dragged his mate down to the concourse and they didn't come back. As it happens he was so drunk I never felt worried about confronting him. If I had been worried, I'd have simply gone down to the entrance to the block and told the stewards to deal with it. I'd have no worries of guilt trip about asking for a racist abuser to be removed - and I'd be ok to give evidence in the event of prosecution. And that is your prerogative mate and you are perfectly entitled to act upon circumstances like that exactly how you wish. For me,I wouldn't be comfortable giving evidence against a fellow Stoke fan for shouting racist words at somebody regardless of how much a prick he was being at the time. like it would go that far and he would admit it . And wait till we get stuffed by the Germans or argiies in the World Cup loosing because of a diving cunt in the box and we scream cheating German cunts . It's football it happens it's not nice but you have to just deal with it and set your own standards and move on
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Post by stokecity4eva on Apr 20, 2014 18:13:50 GMT
Despite being a woman and generally trying to avoid confrontation, I did manage to conjure a pair of bollocks and be a man for a moment. I want to report it to the club(s) because it's not something that has any place anywhere, and I don't want myself (and by extension all Stoke fans and the club itself) to be associated with that kind of vile behaviour. I don't understand what you think 'being a man' about it would achieve without further action. nothing will happen . Like he is going admit it he could say it was you saying it !! Abuse of all sorts of things go on at football imagine if the ref complained about the shit he got Thats why she should report it to the clubs as they can see if they have any cctv of him saying it and if they have footage of him the club/victim(newschooldevil) will report it to the police who can then investigate the matter there are a number of ways to find him guilty i.e. specialist lip readers
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Post by crapslinger on Apr 20, 2014 18:13:57 GMT
Pretty much the case I would have thought. Well I assure you that you 'thought' wrong. And you are ? to tell others that they are wrong, are you qualified to give out this advice ?, I have been called honky snowflake etc. if I had reported the individuals would they have been arrested, I think I know the answer to that one which is why I did not bother that and not wanting to look like a right precious soft twat.
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Post by slogger on Apr 20, 2014 18:17:04 GMT
nothing will happen . Like he is going admit it he could say it was you saying it !! Abuse of all sorts of things go on at football imagine if the ref complained about the shit he got Thats why she should report it to the clubs as they can see if they have any cctv of him saying it and if they have footage of him the club/victim(newschooldevil) will report it to the police who can then investigate the matter there are a number of ways to find him guilty i.e. specialist lip readers in that case arrest every stoke fan who sang welsh sheep shagging bastards we are sending you down . It won't happen because no one will be arsedd over a few silly comments
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Post by nsd on Apr 20, 2014 18:21:50 GMT
Thats why she should report it to the clubs as they can see if they have any cctv of him saying it and if they have footage of him the club/victim(newschooldevil) will report it to the police who can then investigate the matter there are a number of ways to find him guilty i.e. specialist lip readers in that case arrest every stoke fan who sang welsh sheep shagging bastards we are sending you down . It won't happen because no one will be arsedd over a few silly comments 'silly comments' There's no getting through to some people. He referred to a black player as both a coon and a nigger. Bit more than 'silly comments'.
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Post by crownmeking on Apr 20, 2014 18:22:59 GMT
Well I assure you that you 'thought' wrong. And you are ? to tell others that they are wrong, are you qualified to give out this advice ?, I have been called honky snowflake etc. if I had reported the individuals would they have been arrested, I think I know the answer to that one which is why I did not bother that and not wanting to look like a right precious soft twat. Yes, I am qualified to give out the advice I did. You will notice from my previous post that I quoted the law, that says it is an offence to use racist language in public regardless of the fact that the intended victim heard or not; If someone used racist language to you as you are suggesting, you have every right to report that since you didn't how could you claim to know what the outcome would or indeed would not be?
If you choose not to report an incident through fear of looking like a "right precious soft twat" That is your choice.
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Post by slogger on Apr 20, 2014 18:24:14 GMT
in that case arrest every stoke fan who sang welsh sheep shagging bastards we are sending you down . It won't happen because no one will be arsedd over a few silly comments 'silly comments' There's no getting through to some people. He referred to a black player as both a coon and a nigger. Bit more than 'silly comments'. what's the sufferance from calling some one a Welsh sheep shagging bastard
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Post by stokecity4eva on Apr 20, 2014 18:26:16 GMT
Thats why she should report it to the clubs as they can see if they have any cctv of him saying it and if they have footage of him the club/victim(newschooldevil) will report it to the police who can then investigate the matter there are a number of ways to find him guilty i.e. specialist lip readers in that case arrest every stoke fan who sang welsh sheep shagging bastards we are sending you down . It won't happen because no one will be arsedd over a few silly comments thats different to arrest 2100 stokies for saying that would never happen for a number of reasons namely the amount of police time and court time it would waste. But for 1 individual shouting racial abuse of what this person has allegedly said they would be bothered that isnt just someone saying silly little comments it is a criminal offence which can lead to a £1000 fine. the link below relates to a male arrested AND convicted for shouting racial abuse at two players who didnt hear it but he was arrested after another fan reported him www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/10175182.Football_fan_convicted_of_racist_abuse/?ref=rc
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Post by slogger on Apr 20, 2014 18:26:44 GMT
'silly comments' There's no getting through to some people. He referred to a black player as both a coon and a nigger. Bit more than 'silly comments'. what's the difference from calling some one a Welsh sheep shagging bastard
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Post by nsd on Apr 20, 2014 18:43:28 GMT
what's the difference from calling some one a Welsh sheep shagging bastard These words have a nasty history of oppression and discrimination. The sheep shagging thing is definitely idiotic too, but it hasn't been used to keep an entire race of people down for centuries in violent and inhumane ways.
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Post by slogger on Apr 20, 2014 18:47:44 GMT
These words have a nasty history of oppression and discrimination. The sheep shagging thing is definitely idiotic too, but it hasn't been used to keep an entire race of people down for centuries in violent and inhumane ways. its still racial abuse and look at the forum board and Cardiff thread board thread about what else we was sing to them they all found offensive . My point been it all happens at football right or wrong you will never get away from it . All you can do is set your own standards and except there's idiots with there's
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Post by daibando on Apr 20, 2014 18:58:39 GMT
You should tell your club. I'm fairly sure that they would take it seriously. There was an announcement before the Kick Off about it being the anniversary of the 'Kick it Out' campaign (btw do you like our P.A. announcer Ali ) so clubs don't take this lightly. The club could do a number of things...i.e find out where this guy was sitting and contact other fans to ask if they heard it or not. There may even be mobile phone footage both audio and visual. They could contact Cardiff for CCTV footage e.t.c
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Post by nsd on Apr 20, 2014 19:01:37 GMT
I've reported it on the Kick It Out website, it says they get in touch with the FA and the clubs involved (though I may contact them both myself anyway). Thanks for the help everyone. Very interesting insight into the attitude of some posters too.
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boozo
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 82
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Post by boozo on Apr 20, 2014 19:07:43 GMT
i for one couldnt care less
people need to stop being so precious and adding fuel to people like Sol Campbells belief that everyone was racist towards him and the only reason he wasnt england captain as because he was black. nothing to do with the fact that alan shearer and david beckham were 10 times the player
There is now also toure - who reckons he is being treated like an animal - whilst on £220,000 per week because people are racist towards him.
what a load of bollocks.
anyone ever considered all of this ultra liberal crap might offend people, or is that ok because the media ram it down peoples throat 24/7.........
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Post by crownmeking on Apr 20, 2014 19:10:33 GMT
i for one couldnt care less people need to stop being so precious and adding fuel to people like Sol Campbells belief that everyone was racist towards him and the only reason he wasnt england captain as because he was black. nothing to do with the fact that alan shearer and david beckham were 10 times the player There is now also toure - who reckons he is being treated like an animal - whilst on £220,000 per week because people are racist towards him. what a load of bollocks. anyone ever considered all of this ultra liberal crap might offend people, or is that ok because the media ram it down peoples throat 24/7......... You are a real dimwit aren't you.
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